Obesity becoming civil rights issue for some

Subjective

I believe obesity (over - eating) to be a disability, anorexia (under-eating) is a disorder, and a disability. You can say all day long that eating is the main problem behind being obese, and that can be changed. Yes I agree that can be changed, BUT why is this person eating the amounts that they are, crossed with the choices that they're making whilst indulging? We have a hit, Emotional Instability. Are they Mentally Ill? What's lingering? What is the fear? Sometimes stopping the excessiveness doesn't just cut the cake in half. You have to start with the foundation first.
 
I don't consider obesity, anorexia or any other eating disorder a disablity. An illness, maybe, in some cases, but certainly not a disability. Nothing that can't be treated or cured.

Otherwise smoking, alcoholism and drug abuse have to be classed as disabilities as well. They might be self inflicted, but there might be a psychological reason behind it.....nope, too easy. Doesn't work like that. You make a choice, may it be taking drugs, drinking, smoking, eating or vomitting, you have the ability not to do it. There is no disability anywhere in sight.

And what about people who get fat simply because they are lazy and like their food? And who don't give a rat's behind how much they cost in healthcare, or what they are doing to themselves? Do we class them as disabled as well, giving them even less incentive to lose the weight? Just out of convenience?

Uhm. Nope. No matter how you turn it, it's not a disability.
 
I don't consider obesity, anorexia or any other eating disorder a disablity. An illness, maybe, in some cases, but certainly not a disability. Nothing that can't be treated or cured.

Otherwise smoking, alcoholism and drug abuse have to be classed as disabilities as well. They might be self inflicted, but there might be a psychological reason behind it.....nope, too easy. Doesn't work like that. You make a choice, may it be taking drugs, drinking, smoking, eating or vomitting, you have the ability not to do it. There is no disability anywhere in sight.

And what about people who get fat simply because they are lazy and like their food? And who don't give a rat's behind how much they cost in healthcare, or what they are doing to themselves? Do we class them as disabled as well, giving them even less incentive to lose the weight? Just out of convenience?

Uhm. Nope. No matter how you turn it, it's not a disability.

Again, subjective, I believe your last statement to be so. It's not about turning or twisting, or flipping the situation from underneath someone to be right. Nor is it about being too easy. Just stop eating, would be too easy, just exercise, would be too easy. Just go do it! What's wrong with you? Would be too easy. You're making up excuses for yourself. Would be too easy. If those were true, than their wouldn't be such a high amount of American's and whomever else in the world struggling with weight.

It's been studied and proven that it is in-fact, because most of the time it is something psychological that is causing drinking, drugs, smoking, eating or throwing up, self-inflicting pain, ect you may in-fact have the choice. Of course the choice is yours to decide whether or not you want to do something, the Question is: What is causing that person to not be able to feel that they can? What causes them to hide the pain in a quick fix? What is the underlying cause that is bringing them to a hault?

Those ppl do care, getting to the bottom line (by throwing out, I don't care about myself) is always EASY. It's usually a defense mechanism that ppl will give off in order for them to hide easier, because they're truly scared. It sure would be simple if the outcome was just to get off your lazy ass!! What is Lazy anyways??
 
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Again, subjective, I believe your last statement to be so. It's not about turning or twisting, or flipping the situation from underneath someone to be right. Nor is it about being too easy. Just stop eating, would be too easy, just exercise, would be too easy. Just go do it! What's wrong with you? Would be too easy. You're making up excuses for yourself. Would be too easy. If those were true, than their wouldn't be such a high amount of American's and whomever else in the world struggling with weight.

It's been studied and proven that it is in-fact, because most of the time it is something psychological that is causing drinking, drugs, smoking, eating or throwing up, self-inflicting pain, ect you may in-fact have the choice. Of course the choice is yours to decide whether or not you want to do something, the Question is: What is causing that person to not be able to feel that they can? What causes them to hide the pain in a quick fix? What is the underlying cause that is bringing them to a hault?

Those ppl do care, getting to the bottom line (by throwing out, I don't care about myself) is always EASY. It's usually a defense mechanism that ppl will give off in order for them to hide easier, because they're truly scared. It sure would be simple if the outcome was just to get off your lazy ass!! What is Lazy anyways??

All true. I have my own share of 'underlying issues' that I'm dealing with and have dealt with since I was 5 years old. But all of that doesn't change the fact that I'm in no way disabled, and neither is a drug addict or a smoker. And I think that was the original point, right?
 
As do I, I am also Considered Mentally Ill, with many underlying illness's, many that disable me at this point in time of my life.

Original Point;

Not quite, the point that was thrown out was about how a "user" let's say obese person whom over eats (staying on topic) is disabled. That is what it comes down to. They're obese. Why? They Eat too much, of the wrong foods, and don't exercise. Why? What is causing them to do so? What disables/prevents them from BEING able, not about WANTING to make the right choices. Anyone can WANT to make the right choices, it is about BEING able, and finding out what is hindering them.
 
Are you suggesting that the majority of obese individuals are incapable of making decisions congruent with with loss or management?
 
I think the problem here is the definition if 'disability' or 'disabled'.

A 'mental illness' (another thing that needs to be defined properly, I think the term is used far too losely) does not 'disable' you from anything permanently. It doesn't actually disable you at all if you are willing to work on it and change things. It might slow you down a little, and stop you from certain things at a particular time, but not in the long run.

If that would be classed as a disablility, every cold, every broken toenail or cold sore would be a disability, since it disables me from doing certain things and influences my quality of life at the time.

Again, I think descriptions like 'disabilty' and 'mental illness' are used far too losely (or is it loosely?....don't hit me please, English isn't my native language), and as an easy excuse for a lot of things. Especially by doctors who can't be bothered to find out what's really wrong, and patients who are only too happy to have an excuse to just go on like before.

Still...not convinced at all.
 
Aww San, I am not going to hit you..haha, I like you. ;) I think that is a very good point that you just made.
 
You can say all day long that eating is the main problem behind being obese, and that can be changed. Yes I agree that can be changed, BUT why is this person eating the amounts that they are, crossed with the choices that they're making whilst indulging? We have a hit, Emotional Instability. Are they Mentally Ill? What's lingering? What is the fear?

Eating isn't the main problem behind being obese. A person's relationship to food and their own self image is. Both overeating and undereating are forms of gradual self-destruction. Suicide. But being suicidal is not a disability. It's a mindset in need of a) a reality check, and b) an attitude adjustment.

Again, I think descriptions like 'disabilty' and 'mental illness' are used far too losely (or is it loosely?....don't hit me please, English isn't my native language), and as an easy excuse for a lot of things. Especially by doctors who can't be bothered to find out what's really wrong, and patients who are only too happy to have an excuse to just go on like before.

Amen. I know someone who was addicted to alcohol and meth. Her doctor diagnosed her with "anxiety disorder" and "ADHD" and prescribed her to Xanax and Adderall. Basically just legal forms of the same crap she was addicted to. Now tell me - how is being treated for these "disabilities" helping her? It isn't. It hasn't done anything but given her a victim complex which makes every negative thing she does somebody else's fault.

I have dealt with obsessive-compulsive disorder my whole life, sans medication or therapy. I know exactly why I am the way I am because I've put forth the effort to sit down and think about my behaviors and where they stem from. I record every incident and use mental techniques to negate its impact on my life. I do not consider myself disabled in any way, because I have learned to manage it through a change of attitude.

Most people have learned to go through life on autopilot; this makes them victims of their own idiosyncrasies when they don't have to be. They're over-medicated and frankly, over-indulged. Nobody's life is perfect; everybody has problems. But there are lots of people in the world with very real psychological issues that don't allow those problems to run their lives.

You control your mental state, unless you suffer from a severe psychosis which requires medication (which I would probably consider a disability). It does not control you.

Not quite, the point that was thrown out was about how a "user" let's say obese person whom over eats (staying on topic) is disabled. That is what it comes down to. They're obese. Why? They Eat too much, of the wrong foods, and don't exercise. Why? What is causing them to do so? What disables/prevents them from BEING able, not about WANTING to make the right choices. Anyone can WANT to make the right choices, it is about BEING able, and finding out what is hindering them.

Personally, I don't think "why" factors in at all, because it's absolutely different for everyone and irrelevant to the consequences of negative behavior. The only person who can really figure out why they are the way they are is that person.

I don't consider lack of introspection a disability either. Just a personality flaw that needs to be managed through self help.

Everyone has to be their own savior in the end. Because honestly, nobody really cares about the motivations of self destruction. They only care about the consequences, particularly those consequences which affect them.
 
The airlines could be even more profitable if they would simply shrink those seats even smaller so that even mildly overweight people wont fit without having to buy 2 or more seats. Whose to say that the seat size they chose is realistic or is the proper standard? On the other hand, I would be pissed if I'm getting squeezed by another person who is encroaching into my own seat that I paid for because they can't fit into theirs. A tricky debate..

As to being required to pay for a seat for your baby, in the US you generally pay if your kid is over 2 years old. If they are younger, you are expected to hold them on your lap, which I have done on full flights and did not use an extra free seat. So why should I have to pay for my baby when she is on my lap and not using an extra seat? Whomever is against the fare waiver for children under 2, have yourself a kid and see how quickly you change your mind. And why shouldn't the airlines make a business decision that they are OK with giving away free flights to children under 2, its not a law as far as I know, its the airlines decision and I wonder why people have a problem with it. Do you have a problem with kids meals at restaurants? They're usually cheaper..
 
As to being required to pay for a seat for your baby, in the US you generally pay if your kid is over 2 years old. If they are younger, you are expected to hold them on your lap, which I have done on full flights and did not use an extra free seat. So why should I have to pay for my baby when she is on my lap and not using an extra seat? Whomever is against the fare waiver for children under 2, have yourself a kid and see how quickly you change your mind. And why shouldn't the airlines make a business decision that they are OK with giving away free flights to children under 2, its not a law as far as I know, its the airlines decision and I wonder why people have a problem with it. Do you have a problem with kids meals at restaurants? They're usually cheaper..

I have a kid.

I would never be so irresponsible to hold it on my lap during take-off and landing.

I happily paid for the second seat and even the baby seat I needed to rent so she could be safe and sound the whole flight.

And kid's meals are smaller than adult meals, hence the lower price. There are no children's seats in an airplane, thus the comparison is limping a tiny bit.
 
Eating isn't the main problem behind being obese.

I never said it was. That whole paragraph explains that it isn't. ;)

Some ppl will never have the understanding as to why they are the way they are. They will just keep struggling.

A person can learn to control their mental state but until that time, they are still UNABLE to do so.

Just because one is not on a medication does not mean their state of mind isn't severe.


Personally, I don't think "why" factors in at all, because it's absolutely different for everyone and irrelevant to the consequences of negative behavior. The only person who can really figure out why they are the way they are is that person.

I definitely would agree with the point of "the only person who can really figure out why they are the way they are is that person" too, Maverick. I do believe however that a lot of ppl whom are "ill" just don't know it. So it's in turn not laziness, or just excuses.
 
Amen. I know someone who was addicted to alcohol and meth. Her doctor diagnosed her with "anxiety disorder" and "ADHD" and prescribed her to Xanax and Adderall. Basically just legal forms of the same crap she was addicted to. Now tell me - how is being treated for these "disabilities" helping her? It isn't. It hasn't done anything but given her a victim complex which makes every negative thing she does somebody else's fault.

I am sorry to hear that she was just given medication, and no therapy to help her understand her ways. She does not sound if though she is being as you say treated very well.

Maybe like San said, the word Disabilities shouldn't be flung around so loosely...I went to a Highschool for kids with "Learning Disabilities", their choice of words, Kids with Behavioral Problems, such as not being able to read, ADHD, ADD, Nervous Disorder's, and the list goes on...
 
Eating isn't the main problem behind being obese. A person's relationship to food and their own self image is. Both overeating and undereating are forms of gradual self-destruction. Suicide. But being suicidal is not a disability. It's a mindset in need of a) a reality check, and b) an attitude adjustment.

Everything is a form of gradual self-destruction, if you want to get technical about it.


I have dealt with obsessive-compulsive disorder my whole life, sans medication or therapy. I know exactly why I am the way I am because I've put forth the effort to sit down and think about my behaviors and where they stem from. I record every incident and use mental techniques to negate its impact on my life. I do not consider myself disabled in any way, because I have learned to manage it through a change of attitude.

Attitude isn't something that can be flipped like a switch. 99.99999999% of people can't just sit down and self-diagnose themselves, coming up with the potential cure to their problem. If they could, doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists and therapists would all be out of a job. In most cases, it takes an instance of hitting rock bottom to even realize what you have been doing to yourself.

I tried to kill myself a few years back and it wasn't until I literally cut into my wrist that I realized what I had been doing and how I had been living my life. It's not like people who are "self-destructing", as people call it, can just sit down one day and come to a realization that they need to change their way of thinking and living. Why? Because, people who are in state of mind like that can't realize that sort of thing.

You control your mental state, unless you suffer from a severe psychosis which requires medication (which I would probably consider a disability). It does not control you.

No, you don't control your mental state. It's not so black and white of an issue. Everything in your life influences and effects your mental state, whether you want to admit it or not. Sure, you can say something like "But, it's YOUR mind" all you want to, but that's not the reality of the situation.

We can only control our minds to a certain point. Once that point has been reached, and outside influences begin to take their toll, we can't just flip a switch in our heads and go back to being normal.

Everyone has to be their own savior in the end. Because honestly, nobody really cares about the motivations of self destruction. They only care about the consequences, particularly those consequences which affect them.

Once again, it's not so black and white. You can't just up and save yourself from falling in a downward spiral when you feel like it. It's not even close to being that easy.

While I was suicidal, I tried...I really, really tried...but I just couldn't help myself. I literally spent months and months and months battling with myself, trying to fix myself and all of my problems. I couldn't do it on my own. So, I grabbed a knife and slit my wrist. It wasn't until that very moment that I realized how deep down in Hell I really was.

Like I said, everything around you influences you in some way, shape or form, both positively and negatively. When your girlfriend dumps you, do you not get sad? Of course you do. But, if we are in 100% control of our minds, then that would mean we were making ourselves sad, upset and depressed. Now, why would we do such a thing? The fact is, we aren't in 100% control of our minds. We aren't in 100% control of our emotions either, which heavily influence our daily decisions and how we live our lives.

All of this can be tied in with people who overeat and live an obese life. It's not necessarily something that can be immediately fixed just by some sort of mental inventory check. If something is wrong with your life, there is usually a reason for it and that reason isn't always lack of motivation or mental effort.
 
Thank You for making those statement's Chef, I agree with you.
 
About ten years back, I tried to kill myself. I was stopped by another person, by force. I didn't want to be stopped. I tried again two years after that, in a different way, and again, somebody else stopped me. It took me a long time to see what I was doing to myself, and that the reasons I wanted to end my life were actually things that I was doing to myself, things I could change. I never saw a psychologist or anything of that kind, ever. In the end, I dragged myself out of it, without any help.

I agree, we aren't a 100% in control of our emotions, but what it comes down to is that if I hadn't wanted to change things, no psychologist in the world would have been able to help. You have to WANT to change, and more often than not, you need to be at the bottom, as low as it can get, to realise what you are doing. Ultimately, if you don't want to help yourself, nobody can.
 
About ten years back, I tried to kill myself. I was stopped by another person, by force. I didn't want to be stopped. I tried again two years after that, in a different way, and again, somebody else stopped me. It took me a long time to see what I was doing to myself, and that the reasons I wanted to end my life were actually things that I was doing to myself, things I could change. I never saw a psychologist or anything of that kind, ever. In the end, I dragged myself out of it, without any help.

I agree, we aren't a 100% in control of our emotions, but what it comes down to is that if I hadn't wanted to change things, no psychologist in the world would have been able to help. You have to WANT to change, and more often than not, you need to be at the bottom, as low as it can get, to realise what you are doing. Ultimately, if you don't want to help yourself, nobody can.

People who want to kill themselves (or people who are "self destructing" in other ways) can't help themselves. That's why they are in their situation in the first place. So, ultimately, it takes other people to be the savior in that situation. If somebody doesn't want help, they can still get it...it just might not be a permanent fix.
 
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