Marsia's Diary
- Thread starter Marsia
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Cate
Long term member
When this crazy week is over I am going to make you & K some hearts & post them to you xoxo
Yes, I think that's it. People have x, y, and z illnesses, but other people "are" codependent. Plus the maddening thing about a narcissist helping raise your child, is that when you keep checking to make sure she's alright because your gut tells you there is something wrong, your child has been conditioned to think everything's normal when it is so far from normal it's just crazy. Also my mom stayed with my dad when she knew he was violent to me, and that is my image of codependence, so it's a really hard label to bear. But I agree, my therapist is really supportive and isn't going to blame me. And I really need to be sure I've learned my lesson not to keep blaming myself for everything that goes wrong in relationships, even if 2 therapists, a mom, and a husband all told me that was the case. I did know that they were wrong, I just caved in to peer pressure and let myself be misled. So now I need to be absolutely sure I trust my gut!
Thanks Liza, I have been glad that I haven't gotten into this super heavy stuff while I prepare for mediation because just getting all my stuff ready for that has been overwhelming with all sorts of new discoveries as I look through financial records and such. I like your idea of identifying codependence as something like anxiety disorder - if I have it, I just work on it and that's all really!
This is amazing!!! Thanks Llama! I am not sure yet what creative thing I do before we move, whether it is drawing or crochet, or just sketching, but I really want to do something like that and I'll definitely do crochet and nice things with beads when we get to our new home.
Thank you Cate, that would be so wonderful, but please don't rush. I imagine you'll be quite tuckered out from the intense week!!
When this crazy week is over I am going to make you & K some hearts & post them to you xoxo
Today we went to take K's driver's test at a different DMV, but she read the date wrong and when we got there, we discovered this. So no driver's test, but we had a nice day studying at a bookstore there and then we went for a long walk on the beach this afternoon. I want to get back into Wim Hof for both his breathing technique and for a little cold exposure, so walked barefoot in the waves (which had rainbow bubbles in the froth) and the ocean here is not even that cold at the end of winter. I think we can start swimming in it soon for a nice Wim Hoff cold plunge. It was lovely being on the beach today with pretty storm clouds and lots of sand pipers.
I found that the school that has an art therapy program also has a master's in teaching that is a one year program and it looks really good. I am really leaning toward this lately. I also found my favorite Buddhist magazine at the bookstore and read little bits and pieces from it and had a really nice time. I've been listening to the headmaster of the Shaolin Temple in Europe talk about self mastery and he is just incredibly encouraging and kind. It really helps me with this thing of sticking to a routine, which I find maddeningly hard to do.
I am so sorry to hear you've had blame placed on you like that. Self-blame, shame and guilt etc can be hard enough to deal with without having others adding to that. I feel a lot of guilt and shame around my anxiety disorder and I find that practicing a lot of loving kindness/compassion meditations can be really helpful. But it still comes in waves for sure.
That's too bad to not be able to get that over with...
But wow that does sound lovely. I can't say I'm at all tempted by the idea of cold plunges though!
Marsia, to be honest, I think it's great to see you kind of getting a little angry on here. It's good to stop taking all that 'blame' about the things that went wrong on yourself.
You're a fantastic woman. Your marriage didn't work out. Lots of people marry one person and end up with another. People change over the years, normally not in a huge way, but an incremental way, and those increments can be for the good or the bad. My friend married a man who made her feel like everything would always be sorted out. Does that make her codependent? No, I just think she wanted security and she thought he would give her that. And he did, at least financially. You haven't done anything wrong. If you don't like that word, challenge your therapist on it. See what she says. It's just a word.
You're a fantastic woman. Your marriage didn't work out. Lots of people marry one person and end up with another. People change over the years, normally not in a huge way, but an incremental way, and those increments can be for the good or the bad. My friend married a man who made her feel like everything would always be sorted out. Does that make her codependent? No, I just think she wanted security and she thought he would give her that. And he did, at least financially. You haven't done anything wrong. If you don't like that word, challenge your therapist on it. See what she says. It's just a word.
Thanks everyone!
It's hard not to blame myself for this stuff because I studied psychology, but it didn't do any good, J was too good at what he does. I am going to go to therapy and figure out how to stay far, far away from people like this in the future. I think that if that is my goal, I'll be able to get beyond all these conflicting feelings and get something good out of the conversation. I also try to think about the lawyers and therapists on Youtube who give courses in how to combat narcissists legally and emotionally because they have had to deal with them in their lives and got into messes tangling with them even though they had training, too. There are more types of narcissists than the loud preening ones, and no one tells you this and there is not an easy way to spot the other types. Even the DSM, the psychologist's bible, does not describe anything but the obvious narcissists. So I need to learn and move on!
We did a lot of meditating and breathing exercises today, which was really helpful for both of us. I woke up very tense, and I am able now to feel where I am tense and breathe into the tension and release it, so I am feeling pretty good. It's a going out day today, so we'll finish up school this evening. I can't manage to do both a routine and have so many days where we have to go out at all different times, but I am getting more consistent about wake up times, getting in relaxation, meditation, or breathing, and we're nearly caught up on school. I also did some financial stuff today and it didn't freak me out, which is amazing.
Thanks Liza, that's so nice of you. I think you're right, and going back to self compassion exercises would be really good. It's really hard talking with K and learning thing after thing that J was doing that was harmful parenting, and all the while he was telling me about all the amazing things they did together that were often fabrications. And I am still dealing with people who get in touch with me who are J's friends who are wishing me well because J and I are separating, and they think he walks on water. I just wish them well when I want to rant instead - ranting would make me look crazy.
It's hard not to blame myself for this stuff because I studied psychology, but it didn't do any good, J was too good at what he does. I am going to go to therapy and figure out how to stay far, far away from people like this in the future. I think that if that is my goal, I'll be able to get beyond all these conflicting feelings and get something good out of the conversation. I also try to think about the lawyers and therapists on Youtube who give courses in how to combat narcissists legally and emotionally because they have had to deal with them in their lives and got into messes tangling with them even though they had training, too. There are more types of narcissists than the loud preening ones, and no one tells you this and there is not an easy way to spot the other types. Even the DSM, the psychologist's bible, does not describe anything but the obvious narcissists. So I need to learn and move on!
Thanks Em, I did need to get angry. That codependent label feels awful and I'll ask her to describe what I did in different terms that don't feel so condescending. I learned about the term in addiction studies class where they talk about alcoholics and drug addicted people often having an enabling spouse, so not the most flattering way to think about the mess I got into for sure. I think you are right about seeking security (and also someone who understands finances, which freak me out.). That helps a lot to see this as me expecting a normal relationship that just got increasingly weird over time. Thanks for the really nice compliment, too!
We did a lot of meditating and breathing exercises today, which was really helpful for both of us. I woke up very tense, and I am able now to feel where I am tense and breathe into the tension and release it, so I am feeling pretty good. It's a going out day today, so we'll finish up school this evening. I can't manage to do both a routine and have so many days where we have to go out at all different times, but I am getting more consistent about wake up times, getting in relaxation, meditation, or breathing, and we're nearly caught up on school. I also did some financial stuff today and it didn't freak me out, which is amazing.
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It's a completely different thing to look at a patient's problems from your comfy objective chair and to look at your own when you're right in the middle. That's why doctors and therapists are generally discouraged from treating their loved ones. That's not a weird thing you should blame yourself for but completely normal.
Yay!
Yes I can imagine that would be all so hard. Big hugs!
That sounds like a very good attitude.
That all sounds great!
Thanks Llama and Liza, I know you are right! Em, thanks for the guided imagery meditation. I haven't done one of those for ages, and it was really nice. I tend to think everything will go as wrong as possible, so I think I'll keep listening to this!
C is the therapist in charge of the therapeutic visitation where J will read K some sort of making amends letter. She sent word through K's individual therapist that the therapy session will be where J is in the same room with K, but when we set up this whole thing, C had told me that therapeutic visitation probably would not even happen and if it did, J would be on Zoom joining in on the therapy session remotely. C is not even asking me or K if it's alright to change this to in person, so I had to write to K's therapist and ask why they want to do this change, what benefit is this to K? Also J is timing this so it is right before mediation, so I told K's therapist in my email that there is no way we are doing this before mediation. I don't want K censoring herself and wondering how everything she is saying will affect what Joe's strategy is in the mediation session. This should be about her getting to say her peace to J. I'm pretty disgusted with C. She has been sort of rude and challenging to me in the past, and I really do not like the idea of K being in a room with a therapist who doesn't like me and also with J. K said that when she met with C, C put words into her mouth and interpreted things that she said in a different light than K meant them. But I am just lucky I found someone willing to do therapeutic visitation so that J will even pay for K's therapy, so I can't alienate C or K loses therapy. This whole situation really bothers me.
K has a friend coming over today, so I'd better go pick up the house a little. We sprayed off the porch yesterday. The pine trees here go into pollen and the porch was yellow with dust clouds rising up when you walk. This pollen makes me really sleepy. I'm glad it's also rainy season, so maybe the pollen won't sneak into the house too bad. I am going to meditate extra today and make some peace with the whole therapeutic visitation thing.
C is the therapist in charge of the therapeutic visitation where J will read K some sort of making amends letter. She sent word through K's individual therapist that the therapy session will be where J is in the same room with K, but when we set up this whole thing, C had told me that therapeutic visitation probably would not even happen and if it did, J would be on Zoom joining in on the therapy session remotely. C is not even asking me or K if it's alright to change this to in person, so I had to write to K's therapist and ask why they want to do this change, what benefit is this to K? Also J is timing this so it is right before mediation, so I told K's therapist in my email that there is no way we are doing this before mediation. I don't want K censoring herself and wondering how everything she is saying will affect what Joe's strategy is in the mediation session. This should be about her getting to say her peace to J. I'm pretty disgusted with C. She has been sort of rude and challenging to me in the past, and I really do not like the idea of K being in a room with a therapist who doesn't like me and also with J. K said that when she met with C, C put words into her mouth and interpreted things that she said in a different light than K meant them. But I am just lucky I found someone willing to do therapeutic visitation so that J will even pay for K's therapy, so I can't alienate C or K loses therapy. This whole situation really bothers me.
K has a friend coming over today, so I'd better go pick up the house a little. We sprayed off the porch yesterday. The pine trees here go into pollen and the porch was yellow with dust clouds rising up when you walk. This pollen makes me really sleepy. I'm glad it's also rainy season, so maybe the pollen won't sneak into the house too bad. I am going to meditate extra today and make some peace with the whole therapeutic visitation thing.
Cate
Long term member
Good for you writing that email, M. It does sound like J has been using his tactics on C. Is her therapy working well with K do you think? I'm feeling very annoyed on your behalf & am not expressing myself well. It's early here. The magpies are singing. It's such a beautiful sound.
https://www.google.com/search?q=you...ate=ive&vld=cid:4a4901e2,vid:ZG2xRiH3UQU,st:0
https://www.google.com/search?q=you...ate=ive&vld=cid:4a4901e2,vid:ZG2xRiH3UQU,st:0
Thanks Liza, I did. I felt all the grouchiness and worry and it really helped me to feel a lot stronger and more empowered, and more myself again.
Thanks Llama, there are 2 therapists, K's individual therapist N, and the therapist who coordinates therapeutic visitation C, and I wrote to the wrong therapist because I thought that the individual therapist N had a lot more input than she does. It turns out that C was bugged and bugged by J to do the therapeutic visitation, so that is why C brought this up. I still need to write to her, but so far she hasn't contacted me. What she did was to contact K's therapist N, who talked with K about what will happen, then K told me, so it's a big game of telephone (where the story probably changes as each person retells it), and I am out of the decision making loop this way, which is the thing that ticked me off the most (besides that she changed the visitation to in-person without asking anyone.). So the saga will continue, but now I know to put my foot down and let her know she doesn't get to go around me. I am feeling better about this now because I sat and felt all my feelings. I didn't realize that sitting and feeling justified anger for an afternoon would really help so much!
Thanks Cate! It's so nice to feel supported and understood here!! The magpies are magical!!
I am feeling a lot stronger and am feeling like everything will be ok now. When I wrote to J to try to get him to resolve some things that I can't get him to answer me about, he wrote me back that he has a horrible cold and laryngitis. When I saw him last he looked awful, too. I think his inability to take care of himself and the stress of all this is catching up to him.
I am feeling really good - I did some more mulching and it was sunny and beautiful and just watching all the huge worms in my mulch made me so happy. Plus K's friend is really nice and it was a good visit for them. And we took more beach walks and another walk on the boardwalks by the boat harbor today. We've also been eating really well. I feel like I am regaining a lot of confidence and strength and ability to think of good goals to work toward. This morning I was researching growing micro-greens, which would be a fun side business. I also decided that I can't live in a city with bad air quality and will look for houses more in the countryside where I can have a nice garden and woods to walk through. I think it's important to live where I feel inspired instead of somewhere practical. I really don't like suburbs, and cities are a bit overwhelming after about a week. We got nice sun today and had a good day out.
That's great to hear! It's also good to know that's C's annoyingness very likely had nothing to do with you.
Cate
Long term member
Yay! I love that you are getting stronger & stronger (with only the occasional hiccup).
I feel the same xo
So glad that you had a great day, M!
Thanks Llama! The last time I saw C, she smiled at me in a sneering kind of way and did a weird power play type thing. Also in the interview with K, she tried to paint me as neglectful and as someone who knew what J was doing and went along with it anyway. K tried to correct her, but she ignored K. My best guess is that C's parent didn't stand up for her and that she is maybe unknowingly taking it out on the parent who stayed with the abuser in her advocating for children now. But I do not want to pick a fight with the person in charge of whether K gets therapy or not. So I have to tread lightly. This whole process is full of people in charge of helping who are challenging to deal with. I think some helping professionals get burnt out and can view the people they are trying to help as the unwashed masses who they get sick of dealing with. I try not to take it too personally because they don't know me, and their job is thankless and hard. I can't wait until I am no longer in a position where I have to ask for help.
Thanks Cate! It was a really relaxing day, and the more I relax, the more I think of good ways of making our situation work, or I just get more hopeful.
I'm a little sleep deprived. Someone was hammering loudly in a pattern that sounded just like knocking at 2:30am. I turned on the outdoor lights to try to see what was going on, but didn't see anything and got to sort of sleep around 3. It's the end of daylight savings time today, so one less hour of sleep, too. I usually get good sleep, so no harm done, but I am not at my best if I don't get a full night's sleep. Had a good meditation this morning though, and think I'll do another one today.
Edit: I wrote to C about therapeutic visitation, and I think I was calm and reasoned!
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Nice job. All of that sounds so stressful to have to deal with--you are doing a great job.
I love this--I know that joy so well!!
Cate
Long term member
Oh, well done, M! C sounds like J/B1. They're about
Thanks Liza and Cate! I feel good having written a nice professional email to C. She does remind me of the J/B1 women. I hope we figure out how to cope with people like this without so much stress. There's an idea in Buddhism that you don't take stuff like that personally because you can identify more with your higher self and then you aren't touched by that sort of negative energy. I am starting to be able to do that sometimes, which is a nice break from how I used to be with social anxiety where I was so concerned with how I was perceived. I still go back to that sometimes, but not as much as I did before this year.
I had more dances with worms today shoveling more mulch around the trees. I think my arm is really improving. We got up late because of the silly hammer pounding noise last night, so I think I'll turn in early. We went out to our little mall which has lit up trees and spotlights around the chairs in the evening, and we bundled up and read outside. It was nice to get out and do something relaxing.
I had more dances with worms today shoveling more mulch around the trees. I think my arm is really improving. We got up late because of the silly hammer pounding noise last night, so I think I'll turn in early. We went out to our little mall which has lit up trees and spotlights around the chairs in the evening, and we bundled up and read outside. It was nice to get out and do something relaxing.