Atkins Opinions

[realworksuks]

The reason for the post was to make you think on possibles within the "totality" of what you are doing, that makes you feel this way in the AM, rather than just listing the "carbs" as the problem giver.

ROCK ON with knowing some of the side effects of Creatine Mono you did yourself well investing time knowing what they were.

Any other possibilities?

Trust me... I spent tons of time researching creatine before I bought it. I wanted to understand exactly what the supplement was going to do.

Other than the carbs making me feel fat, I can't think of any other possibilities.. so I just blame the carbs. When I wake up in the middle of the night and have cottage cheese I don't feel fat in the morning...

 

[Wrangell]

Interesting link.

These are the key points to keep in mind IMO.....from your link / excerpt....

" A chronically elevated insulin level has a profound effect on the body's capacity to increase body fat. On a related subject, excess carbs can also be stored in fat cells. So always consuming large amounts of carbohydrates can lead to a physique reminiscent of the Michelin Man!

To stimulate maximum muscle growth you need carbs, and a relatively high amount to boot........ However, eating too much too often can also make you fat "​

So, if none of these 3 points apply, in which people have ....

- " chronically elevated insulin level "
- " excess carbs.....large amounts of carbohydrates "
- " eating too much too often "​

...then there is not an significant issue for most people with eating carbs in the evening IMO.

To me, the significant issue is more the ' volume ' of carbs - i.e excess calories due to carbs - and not the ' timing ' of carbs that makes you fat.

' Excess calories ' from carbs are the prime drivers that contribute to fat gain IMO.

Alright, so if I were to try to answer your questions based off all the stuff i've read i'd say that if we eat meals high in carbs (pasta, biscuits, etc.) around 10:00 to 11:00 PM our body will take what it can for energy and then store the rest as fat.

If you consume more calories than your body requires to meet it's needs over a 24 hour period - all other things being equal - why won't your body store the rest as fat regardless of when you last eat ?

I don't think we should ever eat very large portions right before bedtime, whether it be carbs, protein, or fats... because we use hardly any calories just sleeping.

But if you eat at 11:00 p.m and don't get up till 7:00 a.m - that's a fast of 8 hours to begin with isn't it...why extend that fasting period by not eating late at night ?

If you eat small portions of protein and fats before bedtime it helps with catabolism, so you should.

So, if you eat protein and fats before bedtime they won't promote fat gain...but if eat carbs before bedtime, they promote fat gain ?

So Wrangell, use your excellent writing skills to make me feel stupid now

No need for the ' shot ' - I was asking my questions in good faith.

 

[realworksuks]

Interesting link.

These are the key points to keep in mind IMO.....from your link / excerpt....

" A chronically elevated insulin level has a profound effect on the body's capacity to increase body fat. On a related subject, excess carbs can also be stored in fat cells. So always consuming large amounts of carbohydrates can lead to a physique reminiscent of the Michelin Man!

To stimulate maximum muscle growth you need carbs, and a relatively high amount to boot........ However, eating too much too often can also make you fat "​

So, if none of these 3 points apply, in which people have ....

- " chronically elevated insulin level "
- " excess carbs.....large amounts of carbohydrates "
- " eating too much too often "​

...then there is not an significant issue for most people with eating carbs in the evening IMO.

To me, the significant issue is more the ' volume ' of carbs - i.e excess calories due to carbs - and not the ' timing ' of carbs that makes you fat.

' Excess calories ' from carbs are the prime drivers that contribute to fat gain IMO.

You could very well be right.. it's too bad there aren't concrete answers for these questions.

It's just that with the way carbs work, if you eat a meal full of carbs when you won't be doing any activity(before bed time)... wouldn't that be stored as fat?

If you consume more calories than your body requires to meet it's needs over a 24 hour period - all other things being equal - why won't your body store the rest as fat regardless of when you last eat ?

Yes.

But if you eat at 11:00 p.m and don't get up till 7:00 a.m - that's a fast of 8 hours to begin with isn't it...why extend that fasting period by not eating late at night ?

I didn't say we shouldn't eat late at night, I said to not eat carbs late at night... and not large portions no matter what it is.

Like I said, I usually have some cottage cheese, which can take up to 5-6 hours to digest from what i've read, and peanut butter to slow the release even more.

So, if you eat protein and fats before bedtime they won't promote fat gain...but if eat carbs before bedtime, they promote fat gain ?

It seems logical to me that yes it does. Carbs are our energy, if we eat a bunch of it and don't use it (don't do any activity), it seems logical that it'd be stored as fat...

But i'm just a guy interpreting readings..I didn't go to college for this or anything.

No need for the ' shot ' - I was asking my questions in good faith.

I'm sorry, it's hard to tell over the internet. I thought you were set in your ways with your high carb diet, and were looking to shred me.

 

[tribal1]

I don't really believe so much in the no carbs after 4...it contradicts calories in vs calories out

You are still getting your calories from proteins, veg and fruits. The carbs cut from the diet or eaten before 4 is stuff like pasta, bread, rice, noodles etc

 

[Chillen]

You are still getting your calories from proteins, veg and fruits. The carbs cut from the diet or eaten before 4 is stuff like pasta, bread, rice, noodles etc

It still doesnt explain the rationale of not eating carbs past 4p. If calories are correct, AND carbs are at the level desired--at anytime during the day (and inlcuding past 4p) and say sub 30g, --->for example, in the end of things, I just cant see where this will make a huge difference. And, personally feel it wouldnt. I ate my carbs past 4p and sometimes before bed when on a low carb diet, and my results were above subperb---for a personal example.

 

[Wrangell]

You are still getting your calories from proteins, veg and fruits. The carbs cut from the diet or eaten before 4 is stuff like pasta, bread, rice, noodles etc

Tell me Tribal, regarding your variation on the Atkins diet.

- what differences did you notice - if any - when you stopped taking carbs after 4:00 p.m. ?

- also, would you also consume fats and proteins at 4:00 p.m along with those 4:00 p.m. carbs ?

- would you consume fats and proteins at various times AFTER 4:00 p.m. ? If so, when - i.e typically at what times and what would your meals consist of ?​

 

[tribal1]

See an on the subject :-

The aim of low carbohydrate diets is to force the body to use fat as its main energy source, when this happens a person produces 'ketone bodies' to fuel parts of the body that can not use fat as an energy source - the brain, and red blood cells, in particular. When this happens a person is said to be in a state of ketosis - characterised by smelly breath (an acetone smell like nail varnish) and side effects such as nausea and fatigue.

 

[Chillen]

See an on the subject :-

Im just curious about not eating carbs past 4p in the "energy equation" sense in a 24 hour period, how this could "possibly" make difference---if the carb limit is met. Im not attacking you in any way shape or forum. Can you explain this? Maybe I learn something new.....


Best wishes,


Chillen

 

[tribal1]

As I hit the gym at around 6 the earlier carbs and existing fat would then be used up during and after my workout? Its not that hard to fathom. They have got a nice term for it - ketosis (feel free to look it up).

 

[Wrangell]

It's just that with the way carbs work, if you eat a meal full of carbs when you won't be doing any activity(before bed time)... wouldn't that be stored as fat?

But, why aren't you also asking the same question about fat and protein ?

It's ' excess calories ' - beyond what your body needs - that has the potential to get stored as fat........regardless of whether those calories come from carbs, fat or protein.

I didn't say we shouldn't eat late at night, I said to not eat carbs late at night... and not large portions no matter what it is.

Having carbs late at night doesn't ensure they will make you fat - unless those carbs represent ' excess calories ' that go beyond what your body needs.

It seems logical to me that yes it does. Carbs are our energy, if we eat a bunch of it and don't use it (don't do any activity), it seems logical that it'd be stored as fat..

Correct - but again, keep in mind, it's " excess calories " that gets stored as fat - whether it is calories from carbs, fat or protein. The key issue when it comes to gaining fat is ' excess calories ' - not the source of calories ...i.e carbs.

But i'm just a guy interpreting readings..I didn't go to college for this or anything.

That makes 2 of us.

I'm sorry, it's hard to tell over the internet. I thought you were set in your ways with your high carb diet, and were looking to shred me.

Shred ? Not at all.

I suppose I can see some rationale of a low carb diet for sedentary people / or beginner athletes who may have some insulin sensitivity issues and need some form of carb management component in their diet.

But to have otherwise healthy athletes resorting to robust low carb schemes ( such as Keto diet ) while they continue to train hard is just plain stupid IMO. So, you're right, at least within the context of average gym rats training hard in the gym, I'm a big fan of carb based diet protocols....but that's just me.

 

[Chillen]

As I hit the gym at around 6 the earlier carbs and existing fat would then be used up during and after my workout? Its not that hard to fathom. They have got a nice term for it - ketosis (feel free to look it up).

Most on the forum, know me rather well. And, I am VERY familiar with the term, ketosis, and the "overall" reason for a low carb diet (and its negatives as well).

Let me ask you something, what "symptoms" did you have when you "thought" you were ketosis? I can claim mine rather quickly, and I ate my carbs after 4p sometimes. How long does this generally, last IF one enters this state.....?? How long should one continue to do this sort of diet?

 

[tribal1]

Most on the forum, know me rather well. And, I am VERY familiar with the term, ketosis, and the "overall" reason for a low carb diet (and its negatives as well).

Let me ask you something, what "symptoms" did you have when you "thought" you were ketosis? I can claim mine rather quickly, and I ate my carbs after 4p sometimes. How long does this generally, last IF one enters this state.....?? How long should one continue to do this sort of diet?

Are you being cheeky or something? For the rest of the guys who know nuthin see an on the subject :-

The aim of low carbohydrate diets is to force the body to use fat as its main energy source, when this happens a person produces 'ketone bodies' to fuel parts of the body that can not use fat as an energy source - the brain, and red blood cells, in particular. When this happens a person is said to be in a state of ketosis - characterised by smelly breath (an acetone smell like nail varnish) and side effects such as nausea and fatigue.

 

[Chillen]

Are you being cheeky or something? For the rest of the guys who know nuthin see an on the subject :-

Nope........there are symptoms....when in ketosis. Such as "bad breath". I had this symptom (And hadnt had this problem before this sort of diet), and I ate carbs AFTER 4p and BEFORE bed.....Believe me Im not over weight....


Best wishes,


Chillen

 

[Wrangell]

See an on the subject :-

From your link........

" Do Low Carbohydrate Diets Work? "

In the short term, most people who go on low carb diets do lose weight and they lose it very quickly.

However, the majority of weight loss comes from loss of water and muscle tissue, not fat which is what you need to lose to keep the weight off.

Also, if you're trying to lose weight permanently, losing precious lean muscle tissue is like sabotaging your own body. Muscle tissue is metabolically active, and burns calories even when you are at rest. A decrease in the amount of muscle tissue you have will lead to a decrease in the number of calories you need each day to maintain your weight, making it much harder to keep your weight under control when you stop following the low carb diet."

Beyond the fact this approach seems to result in more water and muscle loss than fat ( see above ) that wasn't what I was asking about.

I was more curious why you NEVER have carbs after 4:00 p.m. - whether your workout in the gym is at 5:00 p.m., 6:00 p.m. , 7:00 p.m. 8:00 p.m. or 9:00 p.m.

Again, what is the rationale behind NEVER having carbs from 4:00 p.m one day to waiting to have carbs till sometime in the morning the next day ?

Why the 14 hour +/- fast between the ingestion of carbs ?

 

[Chillen]

How many approximent days before one enters, Ketosis........for example, if we keep things equal....and one is on a low carb diet? Do you think your in this state ALL THE TIME? (NOT--gonna happen).

 

[tribal1]

First off, you pick articles from the stupidest places.

Secondly, you dont go into ketosis in 2 hours.

Third, why don't you just shut up and try to learn something? We all have stuff to learn and to say we don't is useless.

As you are putting words in my mouth, how many months have I been on a low carb diet? How many kg have I lost? The guy did not seem to have a clue how low carb diets work or why carbs are not eaten after 4 p.m.

 

[tribal1]

So now I've only been on the low carb diet for 2 hours? Is this weird or what?

 

[Chillen]

So now I've only been on the low carb diet for 2 hours? Is this weird or what?

Did you misunderstand what she said? I think she was "basically" saying that if things were "equal" and one just started a low carb diet, for example, one could "possibly" deplete glyc. in about 12 hours.......

 

[Chillen]

Gotcha....(understand)

 

[Chillen]

As you are putting words in my mouth, how many months have I been on a low carb diet? How many kg have I lost? The guy did not seem to have a clue how low carb diets work or why carbs are not eaten after 4 p.m.

You dont have to have expert knowledge to be on a low carb diet, one can just follow rather simple guidelines and get the job done. I just have some problems with this not eating carbs after 4p......and I think its "possible" (if you would have ate carbs after 4p) and keeping things equal, that you will still have lost at or near the same amount of weight. However, if not eating after 4p is working for you, than there is no reason to change; however, you should keep an option open for the possibility that you could eat carbs past 4p and keep yourself on track.