Starvation, Calories, and Adaptations

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First, refeeding is a specific way of eating with a specific goal.

What I'm talking about in this thread is simply eating sane. People go around eating far too few calories and I'm talking about reversing that. In my world, that's not refeeding. But that's not important to this discussion either.

I've actually seen people lose weight while ramping up their calories.

On the flipside, I've seen people gain too.

But never ridiculous amounts, assuming intelligent tactics are used.

If someone is dieting using a huge deficit and they're realizing success. it's hard to get them to 'see the light.' If someone is dieting using a huge deficit and they're plateaued, it's easy to 'get them to see the light.'

Whatever the case may be, it's simply a matter of ramping up the calories steadily while tracking the metrics and tweaking exercise. There's no clear cut way of going about it. It's a tough & feel process based on individual response.
 
Thanks for printing the formula. It works for me, except for the exercise factor. At my age/weight/sex (59/215/F) my BMR calculation comes out to 1613, or 1913 at "sedentary" (about right). But when I try to add in the exercise factor, I come out with way too high a calorie count.

I exercise 5 or 6 days per week, typically an hour of ice skating or biking. I would characterize that as "moderate exercise." But the calculation for "moderate" adds a calorie burn of almost 900 per day! There's no way that can be right. According to the calorie estimators I've checked, an hour of biking or skating at my weight should burn 600-700 calories (which seems to match my experience).

Am I misunderstanding the levels of exercise implied by the descriptions?
 
I guess i don't really understand why people find it is necessary to go to such low calories to lose weight. I"m eating 2300 calories/day and losing 2lbs a week. It isn't difficult, i took off 250calories from maintenance and then i'm exercising 4 or so days a week, and i'm not hungry.

*sigh* Must be nice. You have a high metabolism, and that's wonderful. Not everybody does. You may find that your metabolism slows down A LOT when you hit middle age. Mine sure did.

I'm still not sure how you could be losing 2 pounds a week by cutting out 250 calories a day and exercising. You'd have to be burning an additional 750 calories per day, 7 days a week, for that to work. That's some exercise program! Or maybe you have actually cut back your calories more than you realize.
 
Eating too much is a habit

Eating too much can quite simply be a habit, and it does take some "starvation" to cut it back to healthy proportions.

Food is essential though to good health.


Great post! I enjoyed reading it!
 
first, @ Carthonn. You're almost there! Kudos! Now onto why I started to post:

I'm on the master cleanse... yeah, I know. On day 6 of a 10 day program. I'm not really doing it for weight loss though (honest). I'm doing it in preparation for a new phase in my life (birthday is coming up). I'll admit, though, that I AM digging the weight loss side effects.

BUT

I'm worried that the cleanse is totally crashing my metabolism - that is, in the longer run I'm actually getting bad weight side effects and not good ones :(

Anybody cleanse or do a fast and succesfully bounce back without a lagging metabolism?
 
Hey Girlsix just wanted to say that I did the master cleanse and completely crashed and burned :( I did it for 9 days and then had to stop because I got really bad tonsilitus and my housemates staged an intervention. To be honest I didn't eat particularly healthily afterwards but I still put on weight at an astonishing rate, gave me some really bad stretch marks. It took about 3 months for my metabolism to recover and the for the weight to start coming off again. Hope your experience works out better than mine, if you stick to healthy stuff when you finish I'm sure it will :)
 
Great information,best wishes to everyone
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Tell her to ditch the fad diets and temporary way of thinking and start thinking about how to make this a lifestyle.

Actually, tell her to sign up here so she can educate herself.
 
While I appreciate your kind words, I can't help but notice your link. In it, you're advertising the sort of fad diets that trip everyone up.

Also, there's misinformation about calorie expenditure and muscle mass that I saw after 5 seconds of looking.

The link will be removed.
 
Okay hello there! I'd like to say thank you first to Steve because that was very informative and I like to read up on anything dealing with calorie counting. But it began to get me worried. I think I know what I'm doing is sound, but I could use a double check or reassurance from some people on this board that I feel are trust worthy and know their facts!

I'm at 5'7", 156ish, 19yr old with a 1559ish BMR. I round it down to like 1550 needed calories and I think my sedentary intake is like 1600ish. I never really feel comfortable going down below that number (1550) until my weight starts to decrease and then it'll be 1500, 1450 and so on. Should I continually eat slightly above or at that caloric intake and just exercise my way through weight loss? Is this the correct way? I don't want to be unhealthy and I don't want to starve myself in a drastic measure. I dunno, I just need a little clarification.

Thank you so much!
 
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Well you're more then welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read the thread. :)

I have a couple of random thoughts:

1. You ask if this is the "right way." There is no right/wrong when it comes to this. What's right is a method of doing things that works for you in such a way that a) it provides you with the results you're looking for, b) is maintainable for life, and c) doesn't cause you a lot of grief - preferably you enjoy what you're doing.

2. A fat loss plan is quite simple. It's when you start programming for someone who wants to increase strength/power, has an injury to consider, has a few imbalances, wants to cut a little fat, and needs to peak for a big competition in three months that "personal training" gets hard.

The way I look at fat loss is this:

a) pick your calorie goal. This should never be a complex issue as your calorie needs are going to change with time based on your weight, activity etc. The first step is determining your maintenance, which is not BMR. Maintenance is BMR + activity + digestion of food.

There are many ways of finding your maintenance but a good ball park is 14 calories per pound of bodyweight.

b) from there, create a deficit. I like the idea of eating as much food as possible while still losing weight. That seems to be the most sustainable approach for a lifetime. Something like a 20-30% deficit from the above calculated maintenance is a good starting point. You're current intake of 1550 puts you at approximately a 30% deficit so that's good.

c) Track your progress and respond according to feedback. If things aren't heading in the right direction, it's really no reason to get worked up. Simply troubleshoot the issue and take advantage of those around you, including people on this very forum. The cool thing about this that some people tend to forget is this process is very flexible. If something isn't working within 2-4 weeks time... it's not like we invested a ton of time and money into an impossible task. We simply have to be light on our feet and willing to roll with the punches.

d) Once a caloric goal is decided, we need to be sure to account for nutritional value of the foods that comprise said calories. Nutritional quality goes a long way in health, preservation of muscle, hormonal factors that regulate metabolism, satiety, etc. Be sure to think of more than just calories. I'm sure you know this already but it's worth mentioning.

A lot has been discussed here in the stickies about nutritional quality but if you want elaboration, simply ask.

***

The above calorie range factors in exercise. It's assuming you're moderately active with exercise. So lifting some weights and doing some cardio is a good idea.

Weights add to your caloric expenditure. More importantly, it stimulates muscle maintenance which is what gives us the shape and leanness that many of us are shooting for.

Cardio buffers the calorie deficit. Without it, you are forced into eating less food.

Both weight training and cardio obviously have other positive influences such as health, strength, performance, etc.

The application of weight lifting and cadio is another topic unto itself as how to apply each to your given situation depends on your experience, your exact goals, your body, etc.

I feel like I'm throwing a lot of generalities your way without answering your questions... I simply want to be sure you grasp the "foundation" before throwing the walls up.

Should I continually eat slightly above or at that caloric intake and just exercise my way through weight loss?

That intake, with exercise factored in, should provide you the deficit required to realize weight loss. I don't like that term, weight loss. I much prefer fat loss as each have very unique differentiations that are quite powerful.

Is this the correct way? I don't want to be unhealthy and I don't want to starve myself in a drastic measure. I dunno, I just need a little clarification
.

You're certainly not starving yourself. That said, it's hard to determine the health status of a plan based solely on calories. The nutritional quality of the foods comprising said calories is critical.
 
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If things aren't heading in the right direction, it's really no reason to get worked up.
You know ... I think this is something that everyone should read and re-read. I see so many people getting totally freaked out by the fact that their calculated calorie level is X or that they've eaten at 20% less for 3 weeks and haven't lost any weight ... or whatever.

I like the idea of just rolling with the punches. In the grand scheme of things 3 or 4 weeks is less than .001 of the average life span. Is it really that important to freak the f out over a thousandth of your whole life? Or is it just time to say, ok, hey, that's not working the way I want it to ... let's tweak and adapt.

Losing weight, gaining muscle, whatever your goal is a moving target and an ongoing process. Learn to flow with it, rather than freaking out and overreacting when things aren't going your way. :)
 
Holy crap! I wasn't expecting such a respond so quickly... thanks!! You did answer my questions, as vague as they were! I did a little more research after my post about BMR and I realized that I'm not taking into account for my activity throughout the day, which is what you said BMR + activity + digestion of food (which is something I never really thought about, "digestion of food," that is). I guess the correct vocabulary is "daily caloric needs" or maintenance or something to that effect, and I should be practicing it with 1600-1800 calories if I were sedentary, which I am not thankfully :)

I do understand the MAJOR nutritional importance when calorie counting/restricting, whatever you wanna call it. My mum and I constantly discuss it, she being a low-carb-er, almost nutritionist (she switched her major senior year of university), and home ec teacher. And I do understand cardio (which I love) and strength training (which I... almost like lol), just to clear that up. I need to get into strength training more at home, but I'm just not into it!! That's my own battle. Thanks for all that information though!

My calorie counting lifestyle is really fantastic, believe it or not, which you probably do! I just have fallen into the habit of just knowing how many calories are in something and how it feels to create that deficit at the end of the day, but still feel satisfied. (I've been maintain for like the past year because I tend to overeat when stressed, so even though it doesn't look like I've been practicing calorie counting, I've been doing it consistently for a year lol. It wasn't until a few days ago that I realized that I needed a support group. So here I am!) People call me nuts for writing down everything I eat and tell me I have a complex or I'm compulsive, but I'm glad to see that I'm not! I eat what's good and necessary for my body. I'm happy and not miserable, so I think I found MY "right way."

Thanks for your time, Steve! It was a real pleasure!
 
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You know ... I think this is something that everyone should read and re-read. I see so many people getting totally freaked out by the fact that their calculated calorie level is X or that they've eaten at 20% less for 3 weeks and haven't lost any weight ... or whatever.

I like the idea of just rolling with the punches. In the grand scheme of things 3 or 4 weeks is less than .001 of the average life span. Is it really that important to freak the f out over a thousandth of your whole life? Or is it just time to say, ok, hey, that's not working the way I want it to ... let's tweak and adapt.

Losing weight, gaining muscle, whatever your goal is a moving target and an ongoing process. Learn to flow with it, rather than freaking out and overreacting when things aren't going your way. :)


So true, Kara. I struggle with overreacting at a slight increase of a pound. And I did reread that sentence like three times when first going over Steve's post! Wild lol!
 
Counting calories, counting nutrients, weighing food...

If the average person looks at it from the outside, they're going to think anyone doing these things is insane and probably has an eating disorder. On the flip side though, the average person is also overly fat and unhealthy, so who's right?

In my experience, doing these things isn't right/wrong or appropriate/inappropriate generally.

BUT...

For some people it is right or wrong and appropriate or inappropriate. It has to be dealt with on a case by case basis. If you can combine the above actions with rational, critical and sane thoughts... you'll be fine. You being anyone.

Unfortunately, a great number of people take the control to an unhealthy level. They obsess over it. They happiness relies on hitting certain numbers either in their diets or on the scale. They literally let their plans rule their lives. This isn't healthy. Or fun. Or productive in the realm of making this a lifestyle.

So I'm not speaking specifically to you... but since this is a sticky... this is simply food for thought for anyone reading it.

For some, counting things can be counterproductive. Instead, something like "rational nutrition" might work better. Using the principles we all know about - the requirement for a calorie deficit, the muscle sparing and satiating effects from protein, the nourishment at a low calorie cost from veggies and fruits, etc - we can construct a way of eating that's simply makes sense. We might not know the specific number of calories or grams of protein or whatever... but we can be reasonably sure that things are "about" right.

This would be akin to the whole, eat 3-6 meals per day that are balanced nutritionally, avoid calorie containing drinks, when hungry turn to nutritionally dense/calorie sparse foods, keep portions in check, avoid processed crap, etc, etc.

Each method is very different yet revolve around the same core principles. Which is right for you depends on the type of person you are.
 
So I'm not speaking specifically to you...

I know, it's a sticky! No worries. I'm okay with counting things and numbers, and I'm forever working on it so it doesn't affect my mood or the rest of my day. It's tough, but I'm better than I was before definitely. I feel like a lot of it is in my head if I ever get like that, for sure. Positive talk helps a lot too, for anyone that struggles with beating themselves up!! :)
 
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