Starvation, Calories, and Adaptations

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I'm right now weighing in at 363 lbs., and I have no idea how many calories I'm supposed to be eating. So far, I'm between 1,800 and 2,200 a day. Is that about right?
how are you keeping track of what calories you are currently eating.
How are you measusing said portions?

(ie - get yourself a decent kitchen scale and weigh and measure everything that goes in your mouth - and keep track at one of the 100s of free sites on the web like -

it's tough to make adjustments unless youo know what you are currently taking in..

Spend some time with the stickied threads around this forum - you'll find a link to a formula that will give you an approximate starting point -for which you can make adjustments.

BUT _ BUT BUT - you really want to start as high onthe calorie range as possible and focus on 1 percent of your body weight loss a week - in a slow and steady process.. that way -wheny ou are down 100lbs or so -you've got a lot of wiggle room in which to play with calories.

At 1800 calories a day - you don't have much room to wiggle
 
Yeah, I've been using sparkpeople to track everything I eat.

I'll mess around with the stickies and find a decent formula on where to start like you suggested.

Thanks to who answered.
 
Hi there, okay I just seriously went through this whole sticky (I'm supposed to be working whoops oh well :)) After reading everything, I'm still a little confused-don't hate me!

For the past 2 months, I've only been able to workout once or twice a week for 30 min (working two jobs, one full-time, one part-time does not help) and have been eating takeout often because I've been living in nyc. I go home though this coming monday and starting two days ago I put myself on a diet/exercise routine since i have four weeks left until returning to school. Before summer, I use to exercise a little more and eat a little better, but I am going to assume that my metabolism is working fine right now as I have been eating heartily these past two months, is that correct?

So now, starting two days ago, I want to put myself on a diet. I'm planning on working out 4 days a week (cardio and 3 days resistence). That means that maintenance for me, a person who is 5'5" and 130-135 lbs (don't have a scale here so we'll see what the damage is when i get home in a couple days) is 2200 calories or so. So, to lose weight, I just subtract 500 calories like the calculator websites tell me to, and that would be 1700 calories to lose weight...but i cannot seriously imagine that for someone who is so close to their goal weight (10 lbs off or so) that 1700 calories is low enough to lose weight. Someone set me at ease and tell me this is correct. Steve, are you out there?
 
For an average person doing exercise, I like to start with 12 calories per pound. You adjust accordingly based on feedback from your body and measurements.

Remember, where you initially set calories isn't all that important, simply b/c it's not contractual. If things aren't working, you change.

It's a process.
 
So that would mean an average of 1560 calories a day for me...I can handle that.

And while I have you hear, for losing "the last 10 lbs" how much cardio would you recommend because Self magazine had a routine of doing 28 min. cardio session 3 times a week (a kind of HIIT thing) but I reallllly can't imagine that's enough exercise paired with resistence training 3 times a week...aren't the last 10 lbs meant to be the hardest to get off? I don't want to overtrain either so does anyone have advice in regards to that? Any experience on what was best to get rid of the last stubborn 10 lbs?

I really appreciate this, thank you so much!
 
as steve said -it's a process - there's no hard and fast set of rules that are right for everyone.. you need to start somewhere and find what works for your body... starting is the key...
 
Steve - some of what I've read in this sticky seems to be opposite of other things I've seen you write about "starvation mode". Am I missing the point? In another thread it seemed that you were saying starvation mode does not really exist (unless you are actually starving). But here it seems you are saying that at least something similar happens when you drop calories.

I'm one of the ridiculously low calorie people - but that has always worked well for me - until this time around!

Also - thanks to the senior members and moderators for being patient with us newbies! There is a lot of information on this forum to get thru and I know it must get frustrating to answer the same questions over and over.
 
How do you stop the madness

Well I am glad to have found this thread. 2 weeks ago I got sick of my fat (5'10, 225) self and began a kamikaze zero carb very low cal diet (banana for bfast, chicken & salad lunch, no dinner - one day my entire intake was one apple and a few beers at night when a buddy came over...). with help from an appetite suppressant and exercise 3x/week. Of course I have lost weight (about 10 lbs) but I am not a fun person to be around and want to start being more reasonable.

My question is how to do that, after reading this I feel like my body must be in extreme conservation/low metabolism mode so that if I go up to even 1800 cals tomorrow, I will gain it all back. I mean I am dying for a one-time splurge like a pizza or burrito or something, but am afraid that I will immediately gain 5 pounds back because of how extreme I have been.

Any guidance? Gracias!
 
So that would mean an average of 1560 calories a day for me...I can handle that.

And while I have you hear, for losing "the last 10 lbs" how much cardio would you recommend because Self magazine had a routine of doing 28 min. cardio session 3 times a week (a kind of HIIT thing) but I reallllly can't imagine that's enough exercise paired with resistence training 3 times a week...aren't the last 10 lbs meant to be the hardest to get off? I don't want to overtrain either so does anyone have advice in regards to that? Any experience on what was best to get rid of the last stubborn 10 lbs?

I really appreciate this, thank you so much!

As Mal stated, it's a process. There are no hard fast rules. Dig in and adjust accordingly based on bodily feedback. The important thing with the last few lbs is adequate protein and proper resistance training. Your body doesn't like getting lean and will do everything in its power to hold onto fat and shed muscle.

Tons of cardio is not the solution, at all, at this stage in the game.
 
Steve - some of what I've read in this sticky seems to be opposite of other things I've seen you write about "starvation mode". Am I missing the point? In another thread it seemed that you were saying starvation mode does not really exist (unless you are actually starving). But here it seems you are saying that at least something similar happens when you drop calories.

It doesn't exist in the sense that most people tend to believe; as in, the starvation mode kicks on as soon as you cut calories so much and you start storing fat. I've talked about what the starvation response really is in many other threads, of which I'm sure you've read if you've done some searching.

Whenever we don't give our bodies the energy it needs to maintain itself, it is going to adjust accordingly through various metabolic and physiological adaptations. This it the starvation response.

I'm one of the ridiculously low calorie people - but that has always worked well for me - until this time around!

What's your definition of 'works'?

For some, especially women, seeing the scale drop and seeing the inches drop is enough to be happy.

In my experience, this mentality leaves most unhappy in the end though. They were going for that lean look and the very low calorie approach just doesn't cut it. Muscle preservation takes a back seat with starvation dieting, especially in relatively light females, and when this is the case... getting lean is next to impossible.
 
Well I am glad to have found this thread. 2 weeks ago I got sick of my fat (5'10, 225) self and began a kamikaze zero carb very low cal diet (banana for bfast, chicken & salad lunch, no dinner - one day my entire intake was one apple and a few beers at night when a buddy came over...). with help from an appetite suppressant and exercise 3x/week. Of course I have lost weight (about 10 lbs) but I am not a fun person to be around and want to start being more reasonable.

My question is how to do that, after reading this I feel like my body must be in extreme conservation/low metabolism mode so that if I go up to even 1800 cals tomorrow, I will gain it all back. I mean I am dying for a one-time splurge like a pizza or burrito or something, but am afraid that I will immediately gain 5 pounds back because of how extreme I have been.

Any guidance? Gracias!

This extreme approach is utterly ridiculous, which hopefully you've realized. Why set yourself up for failure? Would you be happy losing a bunch of weight simply to regain it all back, and probably some more? Be rational and logical and set up habits that you consistently adhere to for life that promote total health.

Read all the stickies on this forum.
 
What's your definition of 'works'?

This is actually a very good question/point. I've never really tried to get buff - just want some nice muscle tone. Since the fat didn't melt away right off this time around I started hitting the gym harder then ever before. What I'm starting to see is a lot more muscle definition, but not losing the extra fat around my waist and stomach. My arms and legs however are looking sweet!

So if I were to increase calories - esp. proteins (continue eating healthy of course) and maintain my increased weight training - I would eventually lose the extra fat AND get a few muscles in the process? I probably sound retarded but believe it or not the idea of eating more to lose fat is a new concept to me!
 
This is actually a very good question/point. I've never really tried to get buff - just want some nice muscle tone.

Right.

But here is the heart of the matter; the distinction that many people don't take the time to understand and consider. What one does to 'get buff' is pretty much the same one does to get lean (toned) while dieting.

To get buff, you need to provide your body (muscles) with a reason to grow. Among other things, the primary ingredients is progressive weight training to force adaptation (muscle growth) and adequate energy (calories) to facilitate said growth.

When dieting, the same weight training (slightly modified to account for the reduced recoverability associated with dieting) is what causes muscle to remain in the face of a caloric deficit.

No, you won't get 'buff.' Women have a hard enough time getting buff when eating adequately, let alone in the face of a caloric deficit. But you will get tone.

Tone is a function of losing body fat while preserving as much muscle as possible.

Never will you lose all your muscle. But you very well could lose enough muscle along with the fat to wind up looking like a lighter, still soft version of your former self.

Hope this makes some sense.

Since the fat didn't melt away right off this time around I started hitting the gym harder then ever before. What I'm starting to see is a lot more muscle definition, but not losing the extra fat around my waist and stomach. My arms and legs however are looking sweet!

That's great to hear.

May I ask your stats?

So if I were to increase calories - esp. proteins (continue eating healthy of course) and maintain my increased weight training - I would eventually lose the extra fat AND get a few muscles in the process?

Hopefully my distinction above led to you thinking a bit differently with regards to this question. Chances of a woman adding any appreciable amounts of muscle while dieting are slim. Given the fact that you're new to weight training (or so it seems) there is a chance you'll realize some muscle growth. It's not something I would expect, however.

If you've been starving yourself for a time, I would suggest eating at maintenance for a 2-4 weeks. Let your body settle. Dieting is a stress. Starvation is a big stress. When stressed, the body will adapt positively or negatively depending on the stress. Remove the stress to let things regroup a bit. Sure, you might gain some weight during this time. Who cares though? Short term/sighted perspectives won't get you very far in this 'game.' You need to think long term.

Once you reset some things, start dieting using a sane caloric deficit this time around. That's my advice.


I probably sound retarded but believe it or not the idea of eating more to lose fat is a new concept to me!

You see, when you starve yourself (and this tends to be true for dieting females more than any other group) your metabolism very well can downregulate to a point where losing anymore weight is next to impossible unless you follow the path of an anorexic. What seems like a caloric deficit really is a break even b/c of all the adaptations that have taken place in the face of the big stress you've placed on the system.

As noted above, best course of action is to reset and start over with sane/practical tactics.

It's not eating more to lose fat acutely.

It's eating more acutely to fix the things you've done so THEN you can start losing fat again.
 
Not positive that this is what you're asking for so please clarify if it's not:

I'm 5'8", weigh 138, my waist is 28" & my hips are 38". My arms have always been slender, but for the first time ever I've had people ask me if I've been working out - you can see some definition - not muscular by any means. My thighs & calfs on the other hand have become somewhat fierce - I didn't measure before I started the weight training but my calfs are 14" and my thighs are 20" - and you can see the muscles.

Around my waist and hips is where I have the extra fat. I look great in clothing but I would actually prefer to still look great in a bikini if possible! :)

I've only been doing the 1300 calorie average for about 2 weeks. For about 3 weeks prior to that I was doing around 1500-1800. At 1300 calories I'm getting 50 - 60% from carbs, around 25% from proteins and the rest from fat. I really don't feel hungry very often at this level since I eat 5 or 6 times a day. But it would be nice to bump it back up by a few hundred calories :cool:
 
Here's the thing....

1300 calories for you isn't all that low at all. You have to remember, and I should always try and make sure we're speaking in context.... but for your size 1300 calories is ok. I've seen women have to go as low as 8 calories per pound of intake and a healthy dose of cardio to trigger fat loss. 1800 calories per pound definitely seems high for you.

I tend to start, for your average dieter, at 12 calories per pound and adjust accordingly from there.

I don't like to deal with percentages when it comes to macronutrients. I much prefer absolute numbers.

Start with protein. Something like 1 gram per pound of lbm.

.25 grams or thereabouts per pound of bodyweight for fat, which should be coming primarily from the good stuff.

Fill in the rest with carbs*

*If you have issues with carbs, add more fats and protein.
 
That's good news! I really didn't feel like I was doing anything to harm my metabolism. I have tons of energy, my skin and hair are healthy - so I felt like I was doing the right things.

I will try increasing the protein and see what happens.

Thanks for the personalized advice!
 
Start with protein. Something like 1 gram per pound of lbm.

Steve - I'm trying to figure my lbm to determine how much protein I should be getting and I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly. I know my body fat is about 21% and my weight is 138. So 21% X 138 = 28.98. 138 - 28.98 = 109.02. So my lbm = 109.02. Is this correct? So I should be consuming around 109 grams of protein per day?
 
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Yup, I'd shoot for around 100 grams per day. A little over or a little under isn't going to hurt. How many would you say you've been taking in... any idea?
 
Yes - I added protein to what I've been tracking about a week ago. I'm averaging about 50 grams per day - so about half what you are recommending. I've had people recommend protein shakes - usually guys with lots of muscles - but I'm not a big fan of drinking my food! I think it should be fairly easy to decrease my carbs a little and add more protein. I'll try it this week and let you know how it goes!
 
Protein shakes are convenient and affordable. They certainly aren't magic. And they don't create awesome muscle growth beyond what food gives you. It's just protein in powder form.

I take in close to 200 grams of protein per day. 20ish of those grams come from a shake on most days. Most of my protein comes from lean cuts of meat, dairy and nuts.
 
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