Haha, you are welcome Star.
It didn't take me long at all. I must be a fast typer!Starvation, Calories, and Adaptations
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Haha, you are welcome Star.
It didn't take me long at all. I must be a fast typer!
DeepGreen
New member
Steve, great info!
I am wondering, does your body display the same "adaptive" response while weight lifting...or doing cardio...
I saw an ad on TV about muscle confusion; you literally confuse your muscle, switch up the exercises, do you do not plateau, and continue to gain muscle. Does your body have such a response to weight lifting?
Also, I heard somethign that if you do a the same cardio (lets say jogging for instance, 3 days a week for 45 min) and you keep up that routine, your body *adapts* and you lose less calories.
Of course I know, the more fit you are, the lower your HR becomes, and the more you have to pump out to keep creating the same deficit. Heh...i think i just answered my own question...well, to the cardio that is. Still clueless about the weight lifting.
I am wondering, does your body display the same "adaptive" response while weight lifting...or doing cardio...
I saw an ad on TV about muscle confusion; you literally confuse your muscle, switch up the exercises, do you do not plateau, and continue to gain muscle. Does your body have such a response to weight lifting?
Also, I heard somethign that if you do a the same cardio (lets say jogging for instance, 3 days a week for 45 min) and you keep up that routine, your body *adapts* and you lose less calories.
Of course I know, the more fit you are, the lower your HR becomes, and the more you have to pump out to keep creating the same deficit. Heh...i think i just answered my own question...well, to the cardio that is
. Still clueless about the weight lifting.
somethingnew987
New member
Lately I have been going back and forth weekly by one week eating 1800-2000 calories a day and the next week trying to stay within 1200-1500 calories a day. Would this help my metabolism not lower too much? I know you have said before that really heavy people are a lot less likely to go into starvation mode, so does this apply to them as well?
Steve, great info!
I am wondering, does your body display the same "adaptive" response while weight lifting...or doing cardio...
I saw an ad on TV about muscle confusion; you literally confuse your muscle, switch up the exercises, do you do not plateau, and continue to gain muscle. Does your body have such a response to weight lifting?
Also, I heard somethign that if you do a the same cardio (lets say jogging for instance, 3 days a week for 45 min) and you keep up that routine, your body *adapts* and you lose less calories.
Of course I know, the more fit you are, the lower your HR becomes, and the more you have to pump out to keep creating the same deficit. Heh...i think i just answered my own question...well, to the cardio that is
This ad, and many other marketing gimmicks are grossly over-simplifying the body. Sure, our bodies are adaptive mechanisms. And switching exercises to "confuse" you system may work for maintaining muscle while in a calorie deficit, as muscle maintenance does not take much to achieve.
However, for muscle building, not so much. I mean, progressive overload is one of the primary components of hypertrophy. This means, you add weight above and beyond that of what your body is used to. As your body gets used to the new, higher weight, you up the weight again. This keeps your body in a constant state of adapting. Part of this adaptation process is hypertrophy and strength, to keep up with the higher, and higher weights.
Follow me?
So, in a sense, simply adding weight to the bar on a consistent basis is a form of "muscle confusion." But is allows for a base in your program to build upon, hence, maintain progressive overload. On the flip-side, going into the gym and doing whatever you feel like just to "confuse" the muscles doesn't make sense when you take the above into account.
Confuse the muscle too much by totally throwing out the law of progressive overload, and I think you will be doing things, sub-optimally at best.
Same goes for cardio, as in, progressive overload applies to cardio too. You can't pick a set pace, distance, and heart rate and expect it to give you the same results forever. Your body will adapt to this "stress" in order to make it easier. The easier it becomes, the less you "get" from the exercise.
This is why a progression from low intensity steady state cardio into higher intensity steady state cardio, interval training, and eventually high intensity interval training is called for in most cases.
This thread is becoming more than, "you don't have to starve." I think it is filled with some great information, but I think the title should be changed to something else, if that is possible Mods? Especially since it is a stickie.
Cyclical calorie approach is something I use regularly with myself and others who are already lean or close-to-lean. Bigger people, not so much.
There really isn't a need to throw in the advanced dieting approaches with the larger counterparts. The more fat you have to lose, the slower the hormonal adaptations. That said, the longer window you have to utilize a straight calorie deficit.
That said, if you are finding success with your approach, don't let me be the one to tell you to change anything.
mishi
New member
Thank you Steve for posting so much information. I have been trying to stay around 1200 but usually 1400 is where I end up... with a few days around 2000. I went to the calorie control site and my maintance is 1986 cals. So in theory when I get down to my goal weight I would then eat at my maintance (god I can't spell that!! lol) lvl? I feel that if I get close to 2000 that the weight slowly comes back. Did I go to low to fast?? I know there is advice against that but for 4.5 months it has been working. I want to make sure to do this right and not gain all the weight back from this hard work. I am totally uninformed about maintanace and am not sure what to do. There is only 15lbs until I will be moving into maintance... what would you suggest?
My pleasure.
How long have you been eating 1200-1400 calories? And how often to you go above this range?
That seems a little low. What activity factor did you use at the site? I assume light.
If that is the case, how often are you exercising.
However, this is a moot point, b/c if you've been dieting for any appreciable length of time, especially at such a reduced caloric intake as 1200, your metabolism is slower than what any of these calculators will spit out.
Couple of things here.
Mind you that as you lose weight, your maintenance level drops along with the weightloss. Your metabolism is not static. Rather, it is dynamic.
Also, if the calculator spits out a maintenance of 2000, that doesn't mean it is true for You. Metabolism responds to weightloss. It also responds to energy deficits. Create too large of one, and it will slow down at a disproportionate rate compared to your weightloss. This holds true more so for those who are of "normal" weight. Getting down into your 160's, you are getting close to a normal weight in these terms.
You see, even if you were still losing weight on a consistent basis (are you?) what happens if your metabolism slows to the point where you have a new, lower maintenance. You are already at 1200. Dropping below that is a no-no.
When you cut calories so drastically to begin with, it leaves you know room to "wiggle" as the adaptations occur from dieting.
Follow me?
But your definition of "working" and my definition of "working" are drastically different.
Working for you is defined by how quickly the number on the scale drops. Dropping scale weight is simple, in all actuality. And of course it is going to drop! If you started eating 1200 calories at 200 lbs, that is only 6 calories per pound of body weight.... a ridiculously low number. Your body had no choice but to catabolize tissue.
My definition of "working" is losing weight in a slow fashion that translates into muscle maintenance and metabolic efficiency.
I will offer up some advice once you reply to this post.
mishi
New member
I have been eating here since Jan. 1st, 07. I am looking at my last month on Fitday and I seem to eat nearer to the 2000 range a day or two a week. Most days I am right below 1500 and there are just a smattering of days I am below 1200.
Yes I tried at a few activity levels. At a more moderate level it was up to 2200 cals. I try to exercise at least 3 times a week. It's minimum and I have added a weight training class on Fridays but that was just recently. I do understand that the calories I will need will depend on my body and I also realize I can't eat like this forever...
I am still losing weight consistanly... about 1-2 lbs a week. Usually 1.5 lbs a week.
I definatly won't be dropping my cals down!! If anything I would like to add exercise in to balance and eventually eat a bit more
I want to get somewhere where I can stay for the rest of my life comfortably... or relativly so.Yes totally understand. And yes my definition of working is different. I am very focused on the scale and though I am trying to do the best I can with health and nutrition that scale number is still my goal. I have had lots of ups and downs with just adding exercise in and though I get in shape the weight has never fallen off before. This is something totally new to me. I have the concept: burn more energy than you take in. but the finer points are hard for me to work out. So I am working on making my definition fall in line with what it should be but the "how" is hard to work out.
What does "catabolize" mean?
Ok never done this multi quoting thing... fingers are crossed
If this is the case, you probably aren't too far off track actually. At 162 lbs, your average daily caloric intake that I would recommend for weight loss is around 1600-1800 calories per day.
I was thinking you were eating closer to 1200 on average, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
With the exercise, I would use "moderate" as your activity factor.
That sounds about right, actually. Sounds like you are on the right path to me, assuming your macros are in check. Yes, calories are the most important factor concerning weight loss. But when you start bringing other things into the picture such as body composition and health, macro and micro nutrients become just as important IMO.
If you were losing weight at a faster rate than 1.5 lbs per week, I would be alarmed. Relying so much on the scale to be the backbone of your goals, and therefore happiness, is risky. What happens when you get closer to your goal weight? I ask, because the lighter you get, the slower your weightloss will be, if you are doing things right. Sometimes you have to be happy with <.5 lbs loss per week. For someone with the "scale mentality" this might mean failure.
I usually ask people this:
What is more important to you? The way you look and feel or the number on the scale?
A deficit is a deficit, no matter its origin. Meaning, it can come from a reduction in food, an increase in exercise, or a combination of the two. Ideally, it is a combo of the two.
Don't get so hung up on the nitty gritty stuff. If it means anything to you, I think you are on the right track. So, if you are questioning yourself, don't.
catabolize = breakdown
mishi
New member
Thanks Steve, It's nice to hear that I am on track. 1200 is my goal but I am not always at my goal... Since I like things like ice cream and rice and bread And seriously the numbers on the scale are really what I am focusing on. I know it should be how I feel but the effect of lower numbers on the scale is usually that I do feel better and look better. As I am getting closer to my goal I have "freak outs" with any weight gain (up 3lbs this week) and I know it will get slower and it bounces around alot because it's still life!! I do like weighing myself everyday because I can see what my progress is and more closely monitor myself and my eating. I am totally OCD and always concerned with the "nitty gritty"!!! Thanks for answering my questions
And seriously the numbers on the scale are really what I am focusing on. I know it should be how I feel but the effect of lower numbers on the scale is usually that I do feel better and look better. As I am getting closer to my goal I have "freak outs" with any weight gain (up 3lbs this week) and I know it will get slower and it bounces around alot because it's still life!! I do like weighing myself everyday because I can see what my progress is and more closely monitor myself and my eating. I am totally OCD and always concerned with the "nitty gritty"!!! Thanks for answering my questions
Thanks Steve, It's nice to hear that I am on track. 1200 is my goal but I am not always at my goal... Since I like things like ice cream and rice and bread
You are welcome.
One last suggestion. It's fine to be OCD. But if you are OCD about a number that is volatile and bound by physiological science to slow down, you might be setting yourself up for a let down. I would recommend giving more weighting of importance on things such as body fat percentage, measurements, the reflection in the mirror, etc.
You are coming down from 200+ lbs. Would you be happy if you'de look like you did at 200 lbs, at 145? Most likely not.
Kaika
New member
I certainly hope this information will help me. I've been stuck at the weight I'm at since Mid May, or should I say I've been kind of bouncing 5-6 pounds back and forth, it's frustrating. I got sick around that time and could barely eat anything for about a week, lost 5 pounds fast because of it. Of course that 5 came back but that's okay, I didn't really expect to keep it off considering how fast I lost it. I figured May would be a bust and I was fine with that. However, now that June is all most over, I'm still stuck in the same rut. I did have a couple of cheat days in June because of my b-day and the b/f's b-day but you think I would have lost something considering the work I did the rest of the month.
Steve, if you could you help me figure out what I should be doing, I can't tell you how much I would appreciate it.
Female
age 41
5 '4 and 3/4 tall
204 pounds (down from 228)
Large frame
I excersise 6 days a week alternating between 1/2 of cario every other day and 10 minutes of cardio along with full body-light weight training on the other days.
Other than that and some cooking and light house work, I sit at a desk all day
I'm not sure how many calories I should be eating. Sometimes I think that my metabolism is shot because I have been trying to eat around 1500 calories a day and it's just not working. According the the calculator I should up that but the thought of that scares me.
I really want to lose this wieght but like I said, what I've been doing has just not been working for me these last several weeks.
Steve, if you could you help me figure out what I should be doing, I can't tell you how much I would appreciate it.
Female
age 41
5 '4 and 3/4 tall
204 pounds (down from 228)
Large frame
I excersise 6 days a week alternating between 1/2 of cario every other day and 10 minutes of cardio along with full body-light weight training on the other days.
Other than that and some cooking and light house work, I sit at a desk all day
I'm not sure how many calories I should be eating. Sometimes I think that my metabolism is shot because I have been trying to eat around 1500 calories a day and it's just not working. According the the calculator I should up that but the thought of that scares me.
I really want to lose this wieght but like I said, what I've been doing has just not been working for me these last several weeks.
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Maybe eating at maintenance = staying at the same weight. So if your weight is not shifting up or down, perhaps that's a better indicator that you're eating at maintenance than your hunger levels. This is just a guess on my part so peeps please do chime in if I'm getting this wrong.
Exactly right.
I don't get how you don't know what kind of fish you are eating. Please explain.
And why not buy a food scale if you are having this much trouble?
I use my food scale daily.
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