purposely going catabolic?

Phate89 said:
Are you saying that a person who eats the same calorie intake, but eats 3 meals a day instead of 5-6 meals a day will gain fat while the other doesn't?

Even if the body does store those extra calories, wont it adapt knowing that its going need to use those calories it stored later on in the day?
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I'm saying that two people (who are the same; twins w/e) and eat the exact same amount and type of food, whoever eats it in smaller meals with a plan (pro/carb pro/fat) will gain more muscle (lose less) and gain less fat (lose more).

The body will store the calories, yes. But if you think it's going to use those same calories when you need them you're wrong. Because it'll be stored as fat, and if you do training or w/e you won't be using fat. All calories aren't created equal (and if this needs to be explained, it'll be at a later time bc it'll be huge).
 
mreik said:
I'm saying that two people (who are the same; twins w/e) and eat the exact same amount and type of food, whoever eats it in smaller meals with a plan (pro/carb pro/fat) will gain more muscle (lose less) and gain less fat (lose more).

The body will store the calories, yes. But if you think it's going to use those same calories when you need them you're wrong. Because it'll be stored as fat, and if you do training or w/e you won't be using fat. All calories aren't created equal (and if this needs to be explained, it'll be at a later time bc it'll be huge).
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So give me an estimate, to at what point would the "stores" be filled up ?
1000 calories?
1500 calories?
2000 calories ?
 
SkianS40 said:
Judging solely on avatars...


... Mreik's right.
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Your right. Mreik is right not because he is educated in this stuff. But because has more experience than me, and has been doing it longer than me

Experience > everything else.
 
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Hepatic glycogen stores vary according to weight, but average male's glycogen stores probably yield around 180g of glucose if completely burned.. Muscle glycogen stores varies according to the amount of muscle as well as the type of training done, but is much less than the hepatic amount.

If you're trying to figure out these numbers to determine how large your meals should be, there's a lot more to consider. The work you've done since your last meal, the %saturation of your stores when you started. It's way to hard to do this exactly. IMO if you were going to eat 4k calories a day, it would be best to eat 167 calories/hour. But that's not practical, so eat as many small meals as possible and keep your fats and carbs away from each other.

Actually this might have more to do with my Bachelor's degree in biochemistry, so don't 'fuk my science' too quick.
 
mreik said:
Hepatic glycogen stores vary according to weight, but average male's glycogen stores probably yield around 180g of glucose if completely burned.. Muscle glycogen stores varies according to the amount of muscle as well as the type of training done, but is much less than the hepatic amount.
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Are there any calculators out there that takes in your weight, height, BF, etc and makes an educated guess as to how many calories it will take you to fill up your energy stores?

I'm not familiar with grams of glucose, how many calories is that translated into?

Actually this might have more to do with my Bachelor's degree in biochemistry, so don't 'fuk my science' too quick
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Yes. We are starting to venture into the scientific world where there are a lot of theories I don't agree with, but lets see what science has to say about this.
 
Phate89 said:
Are there any calculators out there that takes in your weight, height, BF, etc and makes an educated guess as to how many calories it will take you to fill up your energy stores?

I'm not familiar with grams of glucose, how many calories is that translated into?
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Glucose is a monosaccharide, or a sugar. So 200g of glucose = 200g of carbohydrates = 800kcal/Cal
 
Phate89 said:
Your right. Mreik is right not because he is educated in this stuff. But because has more experience than me, and has been doing it longer than me

Experience > everything else.
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1) it was a joke.
2) as you say in your signature, experience > science. You're arguing your experience against Mreik's experience, and it's pretty fair to say that Mreik has had noticable success with his experience.

You should change your sig to "Mreik's Experience > My Experience > Science"...
 
SkianS40 said:
1) it was a joke.
2) as you say in your signature, experience > science. You're arguing your experience against Mreik's experience, and it's pretty fair to say that Mreik has had noticable success with his experience.

You should change your sig to "Mreik's Experience > My Experience > Science"...
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Now that was pretty funny.. :beerchug:
 
SkianS40 said:
1) it was a joke.
2) as you say in your signature, experience > science. You're arguing your experience against Mreik's experience, and it's pretty fair to say that Mreik has had noticable success with his experience.

You should change your sig to "Mreik's Experience > My Experience > Science"...
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hahahaha.

rep+
 
Phate89 said:
Wow. really. The average male can take in only 800 calories per meal before it starts getting stored?

Interesting. Thanks.
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Let's get this straight. We we're ONLY talking about carbs, and glycogen stores. Remember that calories are burned just by digesting and the heat lost trying to utilize the nutrients (Specific Dynamic Action SDA/Diet Induced Thermogenesis DIT), some are used right after they're digested before they go anywhere (once they go in the blood they're readily available, this only needs a blood concentration of .1mM), but only once your blood glucose levels reach ~10mM (high) will your liver cells begin glycogen synthesis. So this shows how many carbs you'd have to eat to start making glycogen.

The big picture of how many calories a person can take in before it begins to be stored as fat is extremely variable, and depends on many factors. Just to give you a few:
Composition of intake (type of calories P/F/C)
Composition of nutrient (Sat Fat; Simple Glucose; Sucrose; Whey; Casein; etc etc)
State of body (HR; glycogen level; blood glucose level; insulin level; etc etc)

There are thousands of factors.
 
So your point is, even if we don't know exactly how many calories it takes to fill up our glycogen stores it is smarter eat smaller meals giving your body a small stream of energy throughout the day instead of risking eating big meals over a long span of time and risk eating too much and storing some of those calories?
 
Phate89 said:
So your point is, even if we don't know exactly how many calories it takes to fill up our glycogen stores it is smarter eat smaller meals giving your body a small stream of energy throughout the day instead of risking eating big meals over a long span of time and risk eating too much and storing some of those calories?
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Yes. Also a small stream of energy (I like that phrase, it's good) will leave you more vulnerable to that huge intake of carbs for PWO and spike your now sensitive insulin.

EDIT** I'm outa here, but I'll check on this thread later..
 
mreik said:
but only once your blood glucose levels reach ~10mM (high) will your liver cells begin glycogen synthesis
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I always wondered that while I was on keto... I wasn't sure if I just ate some broccoli or had like 15g of sugar post workout if I would start restoring glycogen stores...

How many grams of carbs approximately will it take before you start restoring glycogen? And what happens to the carbs that aren't used to restore glycogen and that don't go to the brain?
 
realworksuks said:
I always wondered that while I was on keto... I wasn't sure if I just ate some broccoli or had like 15g of sugar post workout if I would start restoring glycogen stores...

How many grams of carbs approximately will it take before you start restoring glycogen? And what happens to the carbs that aren't used to restore glycogen and that don't go to the brain?
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You do the calculation :p

All you need is the molecular mass of glucose, know how many liters of blood we have in our body (~5), and know that it takes 10mM (millimolar) to begin gluconeogenesis. oh and molar = moles/L

If no one else does it I'll do it later :p
 
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