Weight Training Without Weights Please Help!!
- Thread starter Siavash
- Start date
Aha!
So this is what it was all about, wasn't it, jp? This little charade you played, stringing things along, waiting, planning.................
JUST SO YOU COULD HAVE THE 100TH POST!!
WELL I HOPE YOUR HAPPY!!!
jpfitness said:
So this is what it was all about, wasn't it, jp? This little charade you played, stringing things along, waiting, planning.................
JUST SO YOU COULD HAVE THE 100TH POST!!
WELL I HOPE YOUR HAPPY!!!
Indeed
So it would seem, sniggers Shenandoah whilst twirling the end of a waxed mustache.
jpfitness said:
So it would seem, sniggers Shenandoah whilst twirling the end of a waxed mustache.
I mean what I say
snigger: sneer, titter, snort
LeiYunFat said:
snigger: sneer, titter, snort
This post is a bit silly. It reminds me of something Mr Tsatsouline said:
If you leave a Donkey at equal distance btwn two bottles of water it will eventually die of thirst bcos it wont be able to make its mind up. With exercise, the more people worry about the 'right' drills or the 'right' routine the less time they are spending doing exercise. JUST DO IT!
There are enough bodyweight exercises to keep a person fit and strong for life. If you wanna do weights then there are a million and one weight drills. If you wanna tell people how to exercise when you are clearly in poor shape then good for you too.
If you leave a Donkey at equal distance btwn two bottles of water it will eventually die of thirst bcos it wont be able to make its mind up. With exercise, the more people worry about the 'right' drills or the 'right' routine the less time they are spending doing exercise. JUST DO IT!
There are enough bodyweight exercises to keep a person fit and strong for life. If you wanna do weights then there are a million and one weight drills. If you wanna tell people how to exercise when you are clearly in poor shape then good for you too.
Leg Press: comments
I've recently discovered for myself that you were right about leg presses. I tried pushing with my legs, and when my hips moved away from a support, back stess developed. It seems dangerous, and may even cause compression of spinal disks. Thanks for pointing this out.
In my website, I have now modified the leg press so that it shows the hips situated to take the force, instead of the spine.
Yochanan
JPFitness said:
I've recently discovered for myself that you were right about leg presses. I tried pushing with my legs, and when my hips moved away from a support, back stess developed. It seems dangerous, and may even cause compression of spinal disks. Thanks for pointing this out.
In my website, I have now modified the leg press so that it shows the hips situated to take the force, instead of the spine.
Yochanan
It is the thread that never ends,
And it goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started reading it,
Not knowing what it was,
Now they'll continue reading it
Forever just because
It is the thread that never ends,
And it goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started reading it,
Not knowing what it was,
Now they'll continue reading it,
Forever just because
It is the thread that never ends..................
And it goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started reading it,
Not knowing what it was,
Now they'll continue reading it
Forever just because
It is the thread that never ends,
And it goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started reading it,
Not knowing what it was,
Now they'll continue reading it,
Forever just because
It is the thread that never ends..................
gymcoch said:
I think the main conflict in this thread is this site
Its by Shenandoah. Personally I think that the workout is bad. I believe that small gains can be made, but only by those with a history of weight training. There is no evidence to suggest that anyone wightout weight training experiance has made any gains using this. The site also says things like you can work your abs every day.
Gymcoch (BTW, was that a typo or intentional?),
Read the first two pages and you will pretty well have an idea of what the big debate was about. Honestly though, the entire thread is worth reading, and wouldn't take as long as you think. One guy did try to jump in without reading the thread and his comments were a bit out of context, so if you see enough to inspire a comment on this, it may behoove you to go ahead and read it in its entirety.
I would actually love to have the opinion of someone with a CSCS though. Of all the certifications, that one has the most credibility with me. I have hired trainers for years, and the only cert that I could be assured of being properly trained and educated for the level of training that we do in my facility has been the CSCS. I would sit for one myself, but I dropped out of college my senior year when I opened this biz, and they are pretty strict about only letting college grads qualify for the cert. All of the most innovative strength coaches I have seen have been CSCSs, like Coach Dos Remedios (NSCA's strength coach of the year), who, with Jim Liston, created CHAOS training. You familiar with him?
Read the first two pages and you will pretty well have an idea of what the big debate was about. Honestly though, the entire thread is worth reading, and wouldn't take as long as you think. One guy did try to jump in without reading the thread and his comments were a bit out of context, so if you see enough to inspire a comment on this, it may behoove you to go ahead and read it in its entirety.
I would actually love to have the opinion of someone with a CSCS though. Of all the certifications, that one has the most credibility with me. I have hired trainers for years, and the only cert that I could be assured of being properly trained and educated for the level of training that we do in my facility has been the CSCS. I would sit for one myself, but I dropped out of college my senior year when I opened this biz, and they are pretty strict about only letting college grads qualify for the cert. All of the most innovative strength coaches I have seen have been CSCSs, like Coach Dos Remedios (NSCA's strength coach of the year), who, with Jim Liston, created CHAOS training. You familiar with him?
By all means
Yes! It has all the elements of a great novel; an inspiring story, unexpected plot twists, heroes, villains.......................................
jpfitness said:
Yes! It has all the elements of a great novel; an inspiring story, unexpected plot twists, heroes, villains.......................................
okay...
firstly, I have to admit that I could only get through the first 3 and half pages before I lost interest. So my opinions will be on the posts up to that point. I dont know how to use the quote thing for multiple quoting, so bare with me please...
to the original poster: you will not stunt your growth by lifting weights. It is by learning to lift with improper form that can cause serious injury that could, perhaps, lead to the malformation of growth plates. If you wish to lift weights, seek out a professional (not a gym-rat) to show you proper form. Don't be in a hurry to lift massive amounts of weight.
You can get a great workout from body weight exercises! Look at those in the military and gymnasts (primarily female, as many male gymnasts lift weights as well). You will gain some size from the workouts initially. This is primarily due to CNS stimulation especially throughout the first 2 weeks. From there, you will need to find ways to overload your muscles to facilitate hypertrophy. This can be done with other objects, or by playing "tricks" with gravity (changing angles, changing center of gravity...)
If you want to get bigger, you also need to eat alot! Good stuff...not junk!
(can I be done there? I answered the original post!)
Chin ups make you taller? WOW! News to me!
someone claimed that isometrics was the highest intensity exercise. way too general a comment! Lets look at a bicep curl: an isometric contraction held with the dumbbell at the end of the ROM (flexion end) would certainly not produce as much EMG activity as throughout the entire ROM, depending on the load...too many factors; too generic a comment (and define "intensity)
Coach Lomax-right on! (I read his post an hour ago, but I made a note to myself to say "right on")
The little kid body-builder that was referenced to was properly diagnosed by someone on this forum as having growth hormones fed to him (I saw the documentary and interviews)
JP- kudos to the Alwyn Cosgrove quote!
I did not go to Shenendoas site, and I will, but, based on what I have heard about it: it sounds like a maintenance program. Like Curves, someone very deconditioned will certainly benefit and gain strength and hypertrophy from such a program, especially due to CNS adaptation. Once you reach a certain point though, your muscles are able to comply with the assigned load and there is no overloading, and therefore no increases in strength or hypertrophy, but it is good for maintenance, calorie burn, etc...
All programs work for different people. Thats why every issue of Muscle and Fiction (I mean Fitness) has a different person's routine! And many of them are very different from one another. The problem with them, is that they dont talk about their preferred steroid dosage.-seriously though, different routines, volumes, periodization schemes, exercises, diets...work differently for different people. Try what works for you. Shan-if it's working for you and your happy with it...go nuts! And I have no problem with you promoting it! Because it gives people a chance to find out if it "works" for them! Is it the best method for achieving "whatever"? Deoends on what factor are important to you. If you dont want to sweat, dont workout in a gym, dont have equipment, enjoy the Zen thing...then it's just right for that person!
JP-I disagree that the "worked for you" so promote it thing is irresponsible. Shan is doing nothing different than those guys in M and F.
Free- right on with the genetic predisposition thing and the Bruce Lee vs. Arnold reference. Different people have different distributions of muscle fiber types and one person, no matter HOW exact they follow someone else's routine, will get different results.
Manofkent- Shan's thing will work MORE for a newbie due to CNS stimulation.
Free- the DVR thing. Interesting. Everyone's workout should be music-free and talk-free in order to do just that: concentrate on the contraction. I believe whole-heartedly in that. Studies have shown that the CNS was stimulated through thinking about exercising an opposing limb, however, I fiind it hard to believe one could concentrate so hard as to rupture a biceps tendon/avulse it from the bone (whatever you said). I dont think I've seen a study that show electric stimulation to be able to accomplish such a feat!
Because you know a guy who did it, just doesnt quite cut it for me! (if anyone has a study to refute this, please send it along)
Lei Yun Fat- this forum SHOULD have wider margins!
Free- you said that you have recruited all of your motor units before...
no you haven't, sorry!
Markoola- well said! We in the fitness field have been using applications for years that science is now "proving". The validation usually comes well after those using such practices have found the results to prove the issue.
Does that contradict anything I have said? Perhaps! If things have been working for you...sweet! Go nuts! I'm going based on my studies, reading, research, practice, trials (and errors), etc...
My mind is certainly open to reading some DOCUMENTED cases (not "I know a guy...") to show me otherwise! This field is constantly changing! Some of the brightest, most well respected exercise "gurus" and scientists are contradicting one another. And you know what? They all have their own facts and results to prove themselves correct.
Respectfully,
Wes
firstly, I have to admit that I could only get through the first 3 and half pages before I lost interest. So my opinions will be on the posts up to that point. I dont know how to use the quote thing for multiple quoting, so bare with me please...
to the original poster: you will not stunt your growth by lifting weights. It is by learning to lift with improper form that can cause serious injury that could, perhaps, lead to the malformation of growth plates. If you wish to lift weights, seek out a professional (not a gym-rat) to show you proper form. Don't be in a hurry to lift massive amounts of weight.
You can get a great workout from body weight exercises! Look at those in the military and gymnasts (primarily female, as many male gymnasts lift weights as well). You will gain some size from the workouts initially. This is primarily due to CNS stimulation especially throughout the first 2 weeks. From there, you will need to find ways to overload your muscles to facilitate hypertrophy. This can be done with other objects, or by playing "tricks" with gravity (changing angles, changing center of gravity...)
If you want to get bigger, you also need to eat alot! Good stuff...not junk!
(can I be done there? I answered the original post!)
Chin ups make you taller? WOW! News to me!
someone claimed that isometrics was the highest intensity exercise. way too general a comment! Lets look at a bicep curl: an isometric contraction held with the dumbbell at the end of the ROM (flexion end) would certainly not produce as much EMG activity as throughout the entire ROM, depending on the load...too many factors; too generic a comment (and define "intensity)
Coach Lomax-right on! (I read his post an hour ago, but I made a note to myself to say "right on")
The little kid body-builder that was referenced to was properly diagnosed by someone on this forum as having growth hormones fed to him (I saw the documentary and interviews)
JP- kudos to the Alwyn Cosgrove quote!
I did not go to Shenendoas site, and I will, but, based on what I have heard about it: it sounds like a maintenance program. Like Curves, someone very deconditioned will certainly benefit and gain strength and hypertrophy from such a program, especially due to CNS adaptation. Once you reach a certain point though, your muscles are able to comply with the assigned load and there is no overloading, and therefore no increases in strength or hypertrophy, but it is good for maintenance, calorie burn, etc...
All programs work for different people. Thats why every issue of Muscle and Fiction (I mean Fitness) has a different person's routine! And many of them are very different from one another. The problem with them, is that they dont talk about their preferred steroid dosage.-seriously though, different routines, volumes, periodization schemes, exercises, diets...work differently for different people. Try what works for you. Shan-if it's working for you and your happy with it...go nuts! And I have no problem with you promoting it! Because it gives people a chance to find out if it "works" for them! Is it the best method for achieving "whatever"? Deoends on what factor are important to you. If you dont want to sweat, dont workout in a gym, dont have equipment, enjoy the Zen thing...then it's just right for that person!
JP-I disagree that the "worked for you" so promote it thing is irresponsible. Shan is doing nothing different than those guys in M and F.
Free- right on with the genetic predisposition thing and the Bruce Lee vs. Arnold reference. Different people have different distributions of muscle fiber types and one person, no matter HOW exact they follow someone else's routine, will get different results.
Manofkent- Shan's thing will work MORE for a newbie due to CNS stimulation.
Free- the DVR thing. Interesting. Everyone's workout should be music-free and talk-free in order to do just that: concentrate on the contraction. I believe whole-heartedly in that. Studies have shown that the CNS was stimulated through thinking about exercising an opposing limb, however, I fiind it hard to believe one could concentrate so hard as to rupture a biceps tendon/avulse it from the bone (whatever you said). I dont think I've seen a study that show electric stimulation to be able to accomplish such a feat!
Because you know a guy who did it, just doesnt quite cut it for me! (if anyone has a study to refute this, please send it along)
Lei Yun Fat- this forum SHOULD have wider margins!
Free- you said that you have recruited all of your motor units before...
no you haven't, sorry!
Markoola- well said! We in the fitness field have been using applications for years that science is now "proving". The validation usually comes well after those using such practices have found the results to prove the issue.
Does that contradict anything I have said? Perhaps! If things have been working for you...sweet! Go nuts! I'm going based on my studies, reading, research, practice, trials (and errors), etc...
My mind is certainly open to reading some DOCUMENTED cases (not "I know a guy...") to show me otherwise! This field is constantly changing! Some of the brightest, most well respected exercise "gurus" and scientists are contradicting one another. And you know what? They all have their own facts and results to prove themselves correct.
Respectfully,
Wes
Last edited:
To Gymcoch:
Okay, coach. Here is the documentation that proves that isometrics produces measurable (and astounding) results:
Isometrics is the most intense form of exercise from the standpoint of strength, because it engages all the motor units. Mike Mentzer discovered this while exercising with enormous weights. If you think about it, isn't exercising with enormous weights approaching an isometric exercise? In the gym it is very unsafe to use heavy weights, such as during a benchpress, unless you have a very fast and strong spotter or two. This is why pushing on immovable objects has a distinct advantage. I've gone a step further and made it measurable.
Yochanan
Okay, coach. Here is the documentation that proves that isometrics produces measurable (and astounding) results:
Isometrics is the most intense form of exercise from the standpoint of strength, because it engages all the motor units. Mike Mentzer discovered this while exercising with enormous weights. If you think about it, isn't exercising with enormous weights approaching an isometric exercise? In the gym it is very unsafe to use heavy weights, such as during a benchpress, unless you have a very fast and strong spotter or two. This is why pushing on immovable objects has a distinct advantage. I've gone a step further and made it measurable.
Yochanan
very cool concept, and congrats to having a vision and persuing to make it a reality.
You said that isometric exercise "engages all of the muscle fibers". How can that be when isometrics is done at one, very specific range?
I am assuming that your isometric machine will enable someone to adjust it so that an entire ROM can be worked for any given pattern.
If this is the case, won't a workout for even one body part take forever to complete?
Let's look at a bicep curl for example:
If I perform an isometric contraction with my elbow bent at 90 deggrees of flexion, then the muscle is getting stronger in 90 degrees of flexion. What about when an activity requires strength at a different joint angle? So you can say that you can perform the isometric contraction at various joint angles...but this will take a extremely long time to complete just one exercise (if it can even truely happen), compared to a DCER exercise throughout an entire ROM.
Your thoughts?
You said that isometric exercise "engages all of the muscle fibers". How can that be when isometrics is done at one, very specific range?
I am assuming that your isometric machine will enable someone to adjust it so that an entire ROM can be worked for any given pattern.
If this is the case, won't a workout for even one body part take forever to complete?
Let's look at a bicep curl for example:
If I perform an isometric contraction with my elbow bent at 90 deggrees of flexion, then the muscle is getting stronger in 90 degrees of flexion. What about when an activity requires strength at a different joint angle? So you can say that you can perform the isometric contraction at various joint angles...but this will take a extremely long time to complete just one exercise (if it can even truely happen), compared to a DCER exercise throughout an entire ROM.
Your thoughts?