Weight Training Without Weights Please Help!!

[jpfitness]

Isometrics, dynamic-tension, or Zen, or whatever you call it, does make for impressive strength gains. If you think about it, armwrestling and wristwrestling are isometric sports for the most part, because arms are locked without movement in most contests. I became VERY strong competing in such tournaments, to the point that my right arm was at least 1" bigger than my left. I have since tried to "even out" the arm sizes, but my right arm is still slightly bigger.

I couldn't do more than 24 chin-ups, even with supplements, before I rediscovered this simple method of exercise. And walla, within a few weeks, I was pumping out 31 chin-ups. Nobody can tell me that isometrics is worthless. I had enough confidence in it to make the technique more versatile by designing a machine for it. And even if nobody else wants it, I'm building a prototype of it for myself.

That being said, I still regard isometrics as an exercise to enhance other exercises. I still race by bike, do chin-ups, dips, push-ups, sit-ups, squats, and other exercises. The isometrics just gives me the extra edge to beat out the competition, the competition being the results from my last workout.
Yochanan

Your last sentence summed it all up. I have never disagreed with that position. I use a lot of static movements in my workouts. As you discovered, it is an excellent way to work through sticking points, among other things. And 31 chinups at any age, especially by your age, is impressive as hell!

I'm not so sure about your machine yet, but I admire your ingenuity.

 

[R.Lewis]

"Because of the intense nature of these exercises - forcing your muscles to work at maximum performance

but there not working at max. working at max would be actually lifting the largest weight possable

I do the upper body exercises on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and then the leg exercises on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays.

ok, normally you would need more rest than this, but as your not working your muscles to maximum intensity they will heal quicker. so you can work in this format, but only cos the work out is not challenging.

One set of ten repetitions is all that is needed for the self-resistance exercises.

How do you work that out? So you never ever reach failure?

Aside from stretching, the only exercises that I suggest that can be done daily if you want to, are the abdominal exercises, which are isometric.

No NO NO NO NO. Your abs are the same as any other muscle, they must rest. This proves that you know very very little about training for strength.



If your gonna have a website on strength and muscle building, then at least do some research 1st. Its wrong and imoral for you to give our information to people that dont know any better when you dont even know about the subject.

 

[Shenandoah]

Static Stretching

Not to open a new can of worms, Shen, but I'm not much of an advocate for static stretching either. If we open this for discussion we ought to start a new thread though.

Static Stretching? Static Stretching, you say?

I just happen to be the world's only self-appointed guru on the subject. Wait whilst I prepare a lengthy response for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Actually, now that I think of it, you somewhere called John Peterson "a self-appointed guru". Well, of course he's self-appointed. Who else was going to appoint him? Is there a Ministry of Guru Appointments somewhere that I am not aware of?

 

[jpfitness]

Static Stretching? Static Stretching, you say?

I just happen to be the world's only self-appointed guru on the subject. Wait whilst I prepare a lengthy response for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Actually, now that I think of it, you somewhere called John Peterson "a self-appointed guru". Well, of course he's self-appointed. Who else was going to appoint him? Is there a Ministry of Guru Appointments somewhere that I am not aware of?

Good point. There isn't a ministry like that. I don't like "gurus" though. The term has highly negative connotations to me.

I have been referred to in my own community as the local "fitness guru", and it makes me cringe when they do that. To be a guru you have to be convinced that you know all that you need to know and everyone falls at your feet to get whatever wisdom you cast off everytime you open your mouth. I am just a student like everyone here, learning new stuff every day. I hope I never depart from this frame of mind, and if I ever get so full of myself that I start to believe that I'm any different, I hope someone smacks me in the head with a dumbbell!

 

[Shenandoah]

Isometrics

ManofKent...............

Isotonic exercises need at least a day's rest in between. We all know that.

Single contraction isometric exercises can be performed daily. This is something I read years ago written by an AUTHORITY!

Now, I'm not a guy unwilling to admit that I'm wrong about something, so if someone were to present me with an AUTHORATATIVE document proving that even isometrics must be given a day's rest, then I will change that info on my site.

But I'm not changing A THING, NOT ONE THING, on my Zen paragraph! Do you here me?! Nothing! Nada!

 

[R.Lewis]

Isotonic exercises need at least a day's rest in between. We all know that.

more, you need more than a days rest. When you work to maximum intensity, your muscles are ripped up. They need 2-4 days to recover. many people take a week between same muscle workouts.

Single contraction isometric exercises can be performed daily. This is something I read years ago written by an AUTHORITY!

Which?

Now, I'm not a guy unwilling to admit that I'm wrong about something, so if someone were to present me with an AUTHORATATIVE document proving that even isometrics must be given a day's rest, then I will change that info on my site.

dude you dont need anything authoratative. If you'd done any reading you'd already know this. If your muscles are worked hard they are gonna need healing. this takes longer than a day. You know this, you worked out for 12 years!!!!

What exactly do you want? just something official to say that recovery should be longer than 1 day?

 

[jpfitness]

more, you need more than a days rest. When you work to maximum intensity, your muscles are ripped up. They need 2-4 days to recover. many people take a week between same muscle workouts.

Actually, it is possible to work a muscle every day. It really depends on your volume and training experience. An experience Oly lifter may do squats or some variation 6 days a week. Not necessarily recommended for everyone though. This is also in a very different context as being presented by Shen.

I think where you are running into your block on this is the belief that workouts must be done to maximum intensity or to failure every time you train. This is not necessary, and - in fact - is counter productive. A better way to approach it is to train on an exercise until you reach a form drop-off (getting into auto-regulatory training here, and don't want to hijack this thread any further). Training to failure, especially on more than one exercise in a session that overlaps (like doing bench press then incline bench press) is not an optimal way to train. It is a great way to over train though. Again though, this is another topic.

/end hijack

 

[R.Lewis]

Actually, it is possible to work a muscle every day. It really depends on your volume and training experience.

Thats my whole argument. This workout is no good unless you have previous experiance of real strenght training.

JP - I only started talking about failure and maximum intensity cos Shen said

"Because of the intense nature of these exercises - forcing your muscles to work at maximum performance"

Which I dont believe you can achieve with DVR and SR

 

[jpfitness]

"Because of the intense nature of these exercises - forcing your muscles to work at maximum performance"

Which I dont believe you can achieve with DVR and SR

Agreed whole-heartedly on that.

 

[Shenandoah]

Maximum Intensity

Agreed whole-heartedly on that.

Uh uh uh uh, Fellow Soujernors on this Pathway of Fitness...........

When you get right down on top of one limb and give it all you've got, and then incorporate isometrics into that, you certainly are pushing yourself to maximum intensity.

Dammit! Do a few of them! See how they feel!

It would be great if you guys would simply go through all of the arm exercises, doing them exactly the way I precribe them, and then see if you don't feel that your arms have had a workout. It won't kill you............sissies!

Then you'd have valid grounds to come back at me with your slings and arrows.

 

[R.Lewis]

Look who your talking to dude

This is from JP's website.

"Francoeur, 37, has been training athletes and people from all walks of life since he was 19. He's certified by the National Federation of Professional Trainers, and has been featured in Parade Magazine twice, as well as in USA Today. He's a fixture on local television, where he's the go-to guy for any story dealing with fitness issues, and hosts a health and fitness variety show on Comcast Cable. As a freelance writer, he's been published in Men's Health and numerous strength-focused websites. He is active locally as chairman of the Arkansas Governor's Council on Fitness."

When you got this on your website then maybe I'd do what you said. But untill then stop banging on about your "hear-say" fitness and read some books. Lots of people would be happy to give you an idea of what to read.

 

[jpfitness]

Where I appreciate the comments of Manofkent, I hope that you stay focused on the arguments by their own merits, and not by who made them. My background is truly irrelevant.

"Critical thinker" is not an honorary badge you wear, it's an activity you do. Whenever you cease that activity, you cease being a critical thinker. This obviously holds meaning in any field where ethics are the guiding principle to the presentation of valid information. Science, journalism, Jedi knight, and so on. The second a journalist buys into an ideology that he/she is reporting about, they lose objectivity and cease to be journalists, and become mouthpieces. That is the "dark side" and it is very difficult to distinguish as the charlatans out there are more and more clever at disguising their message to hide the fact that they have an agenda.

For the record, I have no agenda on this subject, other than exploring this subject and getting as close to the truth as we can.

 

[jpfitness]

One thing I really like about your site, Shen, is that you have a piccie of my man, Toshiro! I'm a huge Akira Kurusawa fan, and he was one of the best things about many of his films.

/sorry for another hijack.

 

[Yochanan]

Most people work out too often

I used to buy in to the idea of working different muscle groups on alternate days. Unfortunately, this method of working out does not give the kidneys a break. Perhaps this is why the massive Mike Mentzer expired before he was 50. Some said he was even bigger than Arnold in his prime. Mike Mentzer was a power freak - he used the heaviest weights possible in his exercises, which closely resembles isometrics, by the way.

I've read that 96 hours (4 days) are required between isometric exercises of a particular muscle group. Not only that, but during those 4 days of rest, the muscles are actually weaker! Most of us have a tendency to overtrain, because the muscles say "go". The organs, particularly the kidneys, are not so robust. Both Mike and his brother succumbed to kidney failure. Was it steroids? Perhaps. But Arnold took steroids also, and he is still alive into his late 50s, albeit he already had a heart attack.

The first great bodybuilder from the early 1900s was a man by the name of Eugen Sandow, who only made it to 59. Here is a man who had 18-1/2" arms, and exercised intensely. Like the famous jogger of the 1980s, he expired at an early age because he overdid it, in my opinion. Even Charles Atlas expired while jogging. Yeah, I know, we all gotta go sometime, but why not go for 100? Diet is by far more important, and exercise should be moderate, on average. High intensity workouts are great (I luv 'em), but follow them up with 1-2 week rest periods.

Yochanan

 

[jpfitness]

I used to buy in to the idea of working different muscle groups on alternate days. Unfortunately, this method of working out does not give the kidneys a break. Perhaps this is why the massive Mike Mentzer expired before he was 50. Some said he was even bigger than Arnold in his prime. Mike Mentzer was a power freak - he used the heaviest weights possible in his exercises, which closely resembles isometrics, by the way.

I've read that 96 hours (4 days) are required between isometric exercises of a particular muscle group. Not only that, but during those 4 days of rest, the muscles are actually weaker! Most of us have a tendency to overtrain, because the muscles say "go". The organs, particularly the kidneys, are not so robust. Both Mike and his brother succumbed to kidney failure. Was it steroids? Perhaps. But Arnold took steroids also, and he is still alive into his late 50s, albeit he already had a heart attack.

The first great bodybuilder from the early 1900s was a man by the name of Eugen Sandow, who only made it to 59. Here is a man who had 18-1/2" arms, and exercised intensely. Like the famous jogger of the 1980s, he expired at an early age because he overdid it, in my opinion. Even Charles Atlas expired while jogging. Yeah, I know, we all gotta go sometime, but why not go for 100? Diet is by far more important, and exercise should be moderate, on average. High intensity workouts are great (I luv 'em), but follow them up with 1-2 week rest periods.

Yochanan

Your kidneys really have nothing to do with this. What needs to recover is your nervous system. That is what accumulates fatigue. You can manipulate your volume to train every day or every 4 days. The optimal time to train the muscles again is when your CNS is supercompensating.

Mentzer is a "HIT" guy, which is another training "psuedoscience". I must be crazy for saying that as now all the HIT guys are going to start heaping upon me. I don't know what actually killed him, but there is a good chance that it was steroid related. Just wait till this current generation of bodybuilding mutants hits their 50s (if they even live that long). Many of them are in a "dead pool" on another fitness site. Needless to say, this full body, one set workouts were only good for showing one's tolerance for pain... Not very effective for long term success, but it wowed all the bodybuilder wannabes who read the muscle mags for inspiration.

 

[jpfitness]

Sandow was the man... He could one arm snatch more than most people can deadlift, and he could do as more one-arm chin-ups as most can even do two-handed (I can only get 2 right handed, and 1 left handed). You don't learn to perform an advanced move like a snatch by doing SR or DVR though. Even practice of the actual movement does not make perfect... That phrase is a bit of a misnomer. PERFECT practice makes perfect. In other words, many people who use bad form just continue to repeat the improper movements for years, which will only lead to injury or imbalances in strength, least of all actually mastering whatever movement you are working on.

 

[Shenandoah]

Are You Kidding Me?!!

When you got this on your website then maybe I'd do what you said.

Oh, C'mon! Look who's being close minded, now! An authority, and we all know what jp's take on authorities is, hasn't stamped my program with an official seal of approval, so you won't even consider giving any of the exercises a shot. I'm not asking you to get out there and lift Volkswagens, I'm asking you to take 10 minutes so that you will have a real perspective on which to base your criticisms.

 

[jpfitness]

For what it's worth, Shen, I do like your illustrations. I'm not crazy about the workout, but if you did those yourself they are very good. You could really tell what position you wanted the body to be in, which takes - at least from an artist's point of view - a very good understanding of human anatomy.

 

[Workman]

Shenandoah's Program

I've been following this thread with interst for the last couple of days and thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. It's been my source of entertainment from work. I've lifted weights for about fifteen years and I never had any particular interest in dynamic tension, or whatever you call it. I took a look at Shenandoah's site and those exercises look pretty good to me. I can see where you could build some muscle doing those. I also followed that link over to John Peterson's site and that guy is a brick s**t house. If he built that physique with just dynamic tension and bodyweight, then this SR stuff must be more effective than I would have thought. Free also has a dynamite build.

 

[jpfitness]

Workman,
Welcome to THE THREAD!

You realize of course that your observation is exactly the reaction I am concerned about. They use information which is presented irresponsibly, and you react by taking the bait. Open ANY fitness magazine and you will see hundreds of supplement ads hoping that you will make the same connection... Oh, that guy looks fit. That supplement obviously works so I'm going to buy it. Or, in this case it is more like this: That guy is built like a brick ****house. That program must really work. I hope you can see that this is faulty logic. There are many factors that you are not considering, which we have discussed ad nauseum in this thread.