Hey I started working out seriously in February of 2005 - - - I see definition now in my arms, chest, legs, and VERY lsightly, but not as much as I would've liked, in my abs. In fact, I started working out, only to see definition in my abs, and not much has come...Which is why I am thinking of starting to use a thermogenic pill, just to experiment, for a short time. I eat a clean diet, do cardio 4x a week for 40 min each session....Any suggestions on thermogenics I should look into? the reason I haven't trongly considered it til now is cuz they're supposedly dangerous, i.e. ephedra, heart rates....So let me know... Thanks a lot mfor your help guys