Can anyone recomend an extreme cutting program please? I'm a frist year medical student so I have a pretty good idea about what is safe and what isn't safe. I need to drop some serious pounds quick. Hockey tryouts are comming up and I'm like 25 pounds heavier than I used to be and it's showing in my skating. So diet, lifting routine, any recomendations please would be great. right now I do 30 minutes of cardio every other day and lift two muscle groups a day with sundays off. I have also lowered my caloric intake by about 1000. And don't give me this crap about slowing down the metabolism because thats just not true. Your metabolism, is what it is and there is no real way to change it meaningfully. Your body treats every meal like it will be it's last, so depening on when you eat and how often you eat like six times a day, it doesn't matter! So with that being said, if anyone can recomend an extreme cutting program please let me know. Thanks!
Need help with cutting
- Thread starter KPC84
- Start date
Hey KPC,
You seem a little one sided and mistaken. Metabolism is homeostasis as you said. So your body will always look for the route of least resistance and do what is necessary for survival. However, metabolism very muchcan be increased in an individual. We usually test through BMR and RMR......get back to us when you get to that chapter in your textbook.
As far as leaning down. First, if you are planning on playing hockey....TRAIN LIKE IT. Fullbody my friend. You want emphasis on hip dominant movement in all 3 planes of motion. Quit jogging around the block. Your what they call a medium endurance athlete.....you need to train to increase your energy sytems ability to use anaerobic glycolysis. So interval train with and without weights.
And eat right young skywalker.....you might be surprised how quickly your body will react.
Extreme cutting:
-eat fewer carbs in the p.m.
- on non training days minimize carbs
- do interval fullbody training (i.e. 2min jumping split squats 30 sec break 2min db curls with fullbody rotation)
- you need sleep to recover and lose weight....so sleep
- cardio is interval as well (i.e. box jumps with full twist 30 sec/ mountain climbers 30 sec/ repeat)
goodluck....and hit those books einstein
You seem a little one sided and mistaken. Metabolism is homeostasis as you said. So your body will always look for the route of least resistance and do what is necessary for survival. However, metabolism very muchcan be increased in an individual. We usually test through BMR and RMR......get back to us when you get to that chapter in your textbook.
As far as leaning down. First, if you are planning on playing hockey....TRAIN LIKE IT. Fullbody my friend. You want emphasis on hip dominant movement in all 3 planes of motion. Quit jogging around the block. Your what they call a medium endurance athlete.....you need to train to increase your energy sytems ability to use anaerobic glycolysis. So interval train with and without weights.
And eat right young skywalker.....you might be surprised how quickly your body will react.
Extreme cutting:
-eat fewer carbs in the p.m.
- on non training days minimize carbs
- do interval fullbody training (i.e. 2min jumping split squats 30 sec break 2min db curls with fullbody rotation)
- you need sleep to recover and lose weight....so sleep
- cardio is interval as well (i.e. box jumps with full twist 30 sec/ mountain climbers 30 sec/ repeat)
goodluck....and hit those books einstein
You have a lot to learn if you think any of this is true.
I normally try and educate instead of call people out on their ignorance, but this post is just pathetic. First, seasoned doctors do not know much about body recomposition, so the fact that you are a medical student means very little.
If you were as intelligent as you say, and you are trying to cut as much weight as possible quickly, you would not be doing steady state cardio; instead you would be doing interval training.
You would also know that full body routines would far outweigh bodybuilding splits like you are currently doing. I bet your workout looks something like this:
Monday -- Chest and Tris
Tuesday -- Back and Bis
Wednesday -- Legs and Shoulders
Thursday -- Chest and Tris
Friday -- Back and Bis
Saturday -- Legs and Shoulders
Sunday -- Rest
If it resembles anything like this, you really need to stop what you are doing, let your body recoup, and come back here for some good training tips!
And you say, "your metabolism is what it is and there is no real way to change it meaningfully." Are you kidding me? So you are telling me that our bodies are so inefficient that if we start starving, it will do nothing to prolong our lives biologically or physiologically? You are also saying that our bodies break down all types of food exactly the same. It does not take more energy to breakdown one form of food over another? This statement just made the top 5 most ridiculous I have seen on a message board yet.
Listen, come back when you are ready to realize that doctors do not know much about body recomposition. When you are ready to learn a thing or two, I, and I am sure a few others will be willing to help you.
Oh yea, and dropping weight fast is never a good idea!
No, that is not what I am saying. You took it too literaly. Of course your body breaks down carbs, fats, proteins differently. I am saying there is no way to speed it up in anyway that is beneficial to us, short of taking something to increase your T3 or T4, (thyroxin for example) but that isn't even metabolism anyway. And as for our body being efficient in starvation mode, it is my understanding that your body realeases digestive enzymes at the same rate no matter what homeostatic state you are in. Go read up on some endocrineology and get back to me. Your "chemicals" control everything, it matters not what you eat or when. It's out of your control. Your body treats every meal like it will be it's last. You say our bodies are inefficient? I say that is as efficient as you can get! Give me some peer reviewed journals or something else credible to back up the idea of "speeding up your metabolism." I'm not trying to come off like an ass or something, this is just what I have been told.
As far as the training goes, my lifting schedule is like you described, however aside from on ice workouts which are full body, especialy when we go at game speed, I also do a lot of plyometrics (squats, lundges, sprints, etc). So if there is anything you feel I'm missing there, let me know.
Thanks!
I didn't have to read past this statement.
Doctors...don't know JACK **** about nutrition...that's not what you go to school for.
Nutritionists....Dieticians...even Diet Technicians like my wife...THEY GO TO SCHOOL TO LEARN ABOUT THIS STUFF.
Don't waltz in here all high and mighty because you managed to get into medical school. It doesn't qualify you for knowing anything about nutrition, and it doesn't mean you're a doctor or will ever make it out of medical school to become a doctor.
We only give good, healthy advice around here. If you don't want to take it, move along...don't argue with us when you came here asking advice in the first place!
I call that 'trolling'.
Is lean body mass a metabolically expensive tissue?
When we are in an energy deficit, are you telling me that our metabolisms stay the same?
P.S. That is the most ridiculous training routine I have seen in a while.
I still want you to reply to my last post, and sorry gang for the double post, but I am just amazed that you are a med student and don't think the metabolism can change. You said this:
I have also lowered my caloric intake by about 1000. And don't give me this crap about slowing down the metabolism because thats just not true. Your metabolism, is what it is and there is no real way to change it meaningfully.
You are asking me to provide you with peer reviewed studies. I don't see you presenting any?? You can take a look at the Keyes Study regarding the slow down in metabolism following a fast.
Can you honestly sit there as a future doctor and tell me that you don't think there are metabolic responses (CHANGES) to starvation?
If you eat an energy deficit diet, your body is going to change more than metabolically. Let's look at the extreme of pure starvation so we can highlight these changes.
After a few days of starvation, your hunger will vanish. Blood glucose levels will diminish from the lack of nutrition. You start to piss nitrogen. What does that mean? You are breaking down your lean body mass!! Your body is looking for glucose and it turns to your muscles. What is lean body mass? A metabolically expensive tissue. The less of it you have, the slower your metabolism will become. (Opposite is true with a diet geared toward muscle gain with a resultant increase in metabolic rate). As your muscle catabolizes, you start seeing a shift in fuel substrates used for energy. (glucose to fat). I believe you said something about the stability of the hormones being produced from our endocrine systems, if I am mistaken, forgive me. Next, you start experiencing HORMONAL changes. From these, you will see a change in your sympathetic nervous system and METABOLISM of your thyroid hormone which leads to a slow down in your BASAL METABOLIC RATE!
In the Keyes Study which I mentioned earlier, they took 32 men and put them on a semi-starvation diet to mimic the nutrition of dieters. Without getting into the details, all subjects had a marked decline in their metabolic rates.
Look, I really don't want to argue with you. However, I really don't think you know what you are talking about. I would love to see you get help from this forum because I want everyone to be healthy. Regarding your specific situation, you want to lighten up for the hockey season in a short period of time. If you were my client, I would not allow you to do this. Sure, by "starving" yourself you may drop some pounds of weight, but that weight is going to be comprised of a lot more than fat. If you think going from X% body fat to a higher level is going to benefit you as an athlete, be my guest. But I would be willing to bet that "semi-starving" yourself is not going to to benefit your performance.
And as I said before, your resistance training parameters are very wrong. You are lifting like a bodybuilder on mass amounts of steroids. There is a much more effective and efficient way to train.
I want to continue this debate, and if you can teach me something I don't know, bless the Lord. I love learning, and respect those who can teach me. If you can't teach me anything, then let's get down to business and get you headed in the right direction.
Chat soon I hope.
I have also lowered my caloric intake by about 1000. And don't give me this crap about slowing down the metabolism because thats just not true. Your metabolism, is what it is and there is no real way to change it meaningfully.
You are asking me to provide you with peer reviewed studies. I don't see you presenting any?? You can take a look at the Keyes Study regarding the slow down in metabolism following a fast.
Can you honestly sit there as a future doctor and tell me that you don't think there are metabolic responses (CHANGES) to starvation?
If you eat an energy deficit diet, your body is going to change more than metabolically. Let's look at the extreme of pure starvation so we can highlight these changes.
After a few days of starvation, your hunger will vanish. Blood glucose levels will diminish from the lack of nutrition. You start to piss nitrogen. What does that mean? You are breaking down your lean body mass!! Your body is looking for glucose and it turns to your muscles. What is lean body mass? A metabolically expensive tissue. The less of it you have, the slower your metabolism will become. (Opposite is true with a diet geared toward muscle gain with a resultant increase in metabolic rate). As your muscle catabolizes, you start seeing a shift in fuel substrates used for energy. (glucose to fat). I believe you said something about the stability of the hormones being produced from our endocrine systems, if I am mistaken, forgive me. Next, you start experiencing HORMONAL changes. From these, you will see a change in your sympathetic nervous system and METABOLISM of your thyroid hormone which leads to a slow down in your BASAL METABOLIC RATE!
In the Keyes Study which I mentioned earlier, they took 32 men and put them on a semi-starvation diet to mimic the nutrition of dieters. Without getting into the details, all subjects had a marked decline in their metabolic rates.
Look, I really don't want to argue with you. However, I really don't think you know what you are talking about. I would love to see you get help from this forum because I want everyone to be healthy. Regarding your specific situation, you want to lighten up for the hockey season in a short period of time. If you were my client, I would not allow you to do this. Sure, by "starving" yourself you may drop some pounds of weight, but that weight is going to be comprised of a lot more than fat. If you think going from X% body fat to a higher level is going to benefit you as an athlete, be my guest. But I would be willing to bet that "semi-starving" yourself is not going to to benefit your performance.
And as I said before, your resistance training parameters are very wrong. You are lifting like a bodybuilder on mass amounts of steroids. There is a much more effective and efficient way to train.
I want to continue this debate, and if you can teach me something I don't know, bless the Lord. I love learning, and respect those who can teach me. If you can't teach me anything, then let's get down to business and get you headed in the right direction.
Chat soon I hope.
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Considering the weight-training and skill training regimen you posted below, I think there's more to your performance decrement than a simple weight gain.
I see. So the observed ~30% deficit that occurs under starvation conditions, noted in peer-reviewed literature at that, isn't true because the words of a first-year med student say otherwise.
Neverminding the simple logical idiocy of the body not taking steps to ensure it's survival under starvation conditions.
I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with a regulatory hormone called "leptin" and a cellular pathway called "AMPK" before making such broadly ignorant statements.
Eat 1.5g/lb of protein per day. The End.
Strawman argument. Inability to speed up the metabolism says nothing about its ability to downregulate under starvation conditions.
Red herring. Digestive enzymes are virtually irrelevant to the point at hand.
If you were so well versed on endocrinology you'd know what leptin is, and more importantly how it works....which would preclude such ignorant statements as the above.
See above. THis is a continuation of your strawman argument.
Give your complete weekly breakdown. The weight training is already largely ineffectual for performance purposes. The volume/intensity of your plyo and skill training will be relevant as well.
war
Not war, just good ol' fashion debate. PM can talk circles around me, so I will probably sit out now, LOL!