Journey, Not A Destination

This upcoming trip you better believe we'll be prepared. In February up there boiling water will turn to snow before it hits the ground. Any exposed skin will be frostbitten in minutes. It's no joke. But if you're prepared, it's doable.

Fuck all that! Have fun, freezing your ass off! :waving: but yeah, I know the view will be beautiful! You guys are so cute in the group shot, how hot that you all ended up having to have a Man Dogpile :drool5:

My mind hasn't been in the best of places. This always happens when I get lazy with regards to thinking about my overall goals and the good things in my life. Negativity is a bitch I tell ya... it will invariably creep into the forefront of your mind the moment you let your guard down.


Yes. I am crazy.

A couple of hours sleeping in that and my body woke my up in pure alarm saying, "What the fuck are you doing, you're freezing to death." The worst part was I was uncontrollably shivering.

WOW Steve, this is the first bout of insanity I have seen in you, yet! :eek2: And you poor thing :( Well, of course you'll work through everything just fine I'm sure :)
 
But in my head you do realize that you didnt use a jack - you steve'd the car and lifted it up with one hand... took off the lug nuts with your free hand - lifted off the tire.. and replaced it... Very impressive.. and far less showy than my original thought of you carrying the car to the gas station :)

Word! :smilielol5:

Psychology gets REAL interesting when you venture into abnormal....have a great night, I'm off to do fun girly things like belly dance, Yoga, and hang out with a bunch of hippy freaks and dance to trippy music of the likes of this:



and this

 
Fuck all that! Have fun, freezing your ass off! :waving: but yeah, I know the view will be beautiful! You guys are so cute in the group shot, how hot that you all ended up having to have a Man Dogpile :drool5:

Oh it was hot alright. Hot enough to keep me alive. :)

WOW Steve, this is the first bout of insanity I have seen in you, yet! :eek2:

You don't pay close enough attention then. :p

And you poor thing :( Well, of course you'll work through everything just fine I'm sure :)

Oh don't feel bad for me. All is good in the hood.

Hope you had fun last night!
 
Phew, training last night was pretty brutal. I took my buddy who is considering doing the climb with us to our local high school. It's where I actually went to school. It has the biggest hills around here, they're pretty gnarly.

We didn't get there until dark and it has started to rain/sleet.

Training was pretty simplistic.

We put 50 lbs worth of weight plates into a hiking pack that probably weighs 6-8 lbs along with some other random pieces of mountaineering gear. Total weight probably hit roughly 65-70 lbs.

While one would truck it up and down the hill twice, the other would be jogging at a moderate pace around the field. We did 3 circuits of this.

We then moved onto lunges going all the way across the field and back.

It was enough to kick our asses, that's for sure.
 
This is a conversation unto itself.

There's certainly no right or wrong as to what will happen in the future but it's certainly interesting to me. Not so much the idea of when will people start owning up to themselves and taking action for personal betterment. I'm more interested in the, "Where will obesity go in the future in relation to evolution.

I mean, our society is fat for so many reasons. Primarily though, our society and technology has allowed for changes in the availability of food and lifestyle requirements far faster than our genome has been able to adapt to them.

As far as our physiology is concerned, we're still living without any food surplus, in a situation where it's actually an advantage to store fat whenever possible. Throw such a conservative system into an environment where such a scarce resource becomes absolutely plentiful...

Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the net outcome.

From this baseline, you can get into the idea of how we all have a choice. Yes, our genome has not caught up with our culture and advancements, but that doesn't mean one doesn't have the choice to be fit and healthy.

So is the obese person responsible? I'd say both yes and no. I think 'blame' is a more complex concept than just saying the obese person is lazy. I don't think a great many people understand how relatively easy it is to be not-fat; but at the same time it's an outside context problem. The problem isn't hard, it's just that people aren't thinking about it in the right way, and even once it's explained to them, they have trouble wrapping their heads around the idea. Or simply don't want to do it.

So in one sense, the obese person certainly is responsible for his/her own condition. After all, the obese person is the one that took in 7000 calories a day and did no exercise. For years. Though in another sense, people that have been in that state from childhood might simply have never thought any different.

On the other hand, the physiological situation and a simple lack of information or concern (see the correlation to the poor and uneducated) can make it more than simply a matter of "lazy".

Where will it go from here though, is the million dollar question. Who the hell knows.

Its Not that I'm not interested in this at all, just no time right now! If I think of it, I may start a thread about it this weekend! Good stuff! :sifone:
 
Its Not that I'm not interested in this at all, just no time right now! If I think of it, I may start a thread about it this weekend! Good stuff! :sifone:

It's all good. I wasn't expecting a reply per se. Just random babbles from yours truly. :p
 
Phew, training last night was pretty brutal. I took my buddy who is considering doing the climb with us to our local high school. It's where I actually went to school. It has the biggest hills around here, they're pretty gnarly.

We didn't get there until dark and it has started to rain/sleet.

Training was pretty simplistic.

We put 50 lbs worth of weight plates into a hiking pack that probably weighs 6-8 lbs along with some other random pieces of mountaineering gear. Total weight probably hit roughly 65-70 lbs.

While one would truck it up and down the hill twice, the other would be jogging at a moderate pace around the field. We did 3 circuits of this.

We then moved onto lunges going all the way across the field and back.

It was enough to kick our asses, that's for sure.

It's not quite the same thing, but it's interesting to kind of feel that and see what you would have to be lugging around if you were actually 65-70lbs heavier than you are.

:D good job challenging yourself.
 
The thing with that though is, people who are actually carrying around that much excess weight usually gain it nice and slow over time. This allows their muscles and connective tissue the chance to adapt to the extra stress placed on them.
 
Nope.

I just worry about getting in enough quality protein, is all.

Will it make a difference?

Maybe.

Is there enough evidence supporting said difference?

Not to my knowledge.

Even if there were, would I go out of my way to make sure I'm getting specific kinds of protein at specific times of the day?

Most likely not.

A blend of casein and whey is most likely best.
 
Nope.

I just worry about getting in enough quality protein, is all.

Will it make a difference?

Maybe.

Is there enough evidence supporting said difference?

Not to my knowledge.

Even if there were, would I go out of my way to make sure I'm getting specific kinds of protein at specific times of the day?

Most likely not.

A blend of casein and whey is most likely best.

Ok, I was just researching some of the things out there. I've been getting in 3 shakes daily to help with the caloric intake, morning, post-wo and pre-bed. Lots of slow-digesting protein talk and it's been interesting for me. Casein has been turning up in a lot of studies/research coming along my way.

I might buy a tub of the ON for morning and evening but I want to read more. At either rate it doesn't matter, the costs are similar for whey isolate compared to casein and I am in need of a restock.
 
Nope.

I just worry about getting in enough quality protein, is all.

Will it make a difference?

Maybe.

Is there enough evidence supporting said difference?

Not to my knowledge.

Even if there were, would I go out of my way to make sure I'm getting specific kinds of protein at specific times of the day?

Most likely not.

A blend of casein and whey is most likely best.

So why is the "whey in the morning and after workouts/casein before bed" still the protocol that most people use, despite the fact there isn't enough evidence to support the claims?

And why would casein and whey together be better?
 
hello there mister mister :)

how are you on this fine day? hope all is well. i didn't get a chance to wish you a Happy New Year so i will wish you now to have in the year to come health, love, success, good friends and tranquility :)
 
So why is the "whey in the morning and after workouts/casein before bed" still the protocol that most people use, despite the fact there isn't enough evidence to support the claims?

I'll answer this question when you can answer me this: Why the fuck to most people do the things they do?

And why would casein and whey together be better?

I turn to the likes of Alan Aragon for much of my nutrition knowledge. I do my own research, but it's not half the amount Alan does. From his mouth:

Clearing Up Casein's Misunderstood Role in Workout Nutrition

By Alan Aragon



Dairy Protein Primer

God bless the dairy industry. Who would have known that pitchfork-toting guys in straw hats and overalls would play a tremendous role in bodybuilding nutrition? In the dawn of the sport, cow's milk has been regarded as a staple bodybuilding food. The reasons milk works so well for size and strength gains have only recently been investigated. By now it's pretty common knowledge that milk protein consists of a combination of whey and casein. Casein is the dominant fraction of milk protein (82 percent) with whey rounding out the remainder (18 percent). Minor but commercially significant milk proteins are lactoferrin and lactoperoxidase. It's well known that casein and whey are among the most biologically available proteins in the food supply.

Primary Differences Between Whey and Casein

Whey and casein have distinctly different composition and physiological effect. Whey is higher than casein in leucine, isoleucine, lysine, and the sulfur-containing amino acids. In contrast, casein has more phenylalanine, tyrosine, and aromatic amino acids. Casein has a more intimate link with IGF-1 binding capacity, while whey has been noted for its ability to suppress oxidation. Casein is the slowly absorbed fraction, and whey is the quick one. As a result, whey has a greater effect on protein synthesis, while casein has a greater effect on nitrogen retention and the prevention of protein breakdown. Casein holds the less glorious position of keeping the floor from crashing into the basement, while whey has been in the spotlight raising the roof.

The Obsession with Speed

Traditional thinking about postworkout nutrition has been all about speed. It all began with the rate of appearance of plasma glucose directly affecting the rate of glycogen synthesis. Higher glycemic response equals quicker glycogenesis (glycogen synthesis), and presumably, quicker recovery. That objective is just perfect if you're an ultra-endurance athlete with multiple sessions in a single day. Ironically, all of the nutrient timing principles bodybuilders have adopted are derived from research geared toward endurance sports, where the athlete's structure and function is nearly the opposite of the bodybuilder.

So, are there crossover lessons to be applied? Yes and no. From a cellular hydration standpoint, it certainly can't hurt bodybuilders to follow suit and maximize the rate of glycogenesis. But in most cases, the glycogen you used up during training is easily restocked by the same time the next day, regardless of whether you consume "fast" or "slow" proteins and carbs after working out. In addition, all the research indicating the anabolic benefit of quick postworkout substrates was done on subjects in an overnight fasted state, in the absence of a preworkout meal or shake - not exactly the real-world workout conditions of typical bodybuilders.

continued below
 
.........................

Whey Became the Dextrose of the Protein World

Dextrose was recognized for quite some time as the quickest carb, and thus best for postworkout recovery. Naturally, a whey plus dextrose combination became the standard for postworkout nutrition due to the quickly absorbed nature of each substrate. But again, the postworkout nutrition objectives were all based upon unrealistic conditions in a nearly irrelevant population (fasted endurance trainees). People around the world spouted off familiar advice: "You shouldn't have casein postworkout because it will hinder the absorption of the whey and dextrose." And hence the whey-only era continued. Some folks have latched onto the speed of absorption idea and swear (without evidence) that whey hydrolysate is better than whey isolate or whey concentrate. Still others will take the concept even further and trade out their steak for a bowl of free-form aminos, which are more quickly absorbed. Naturally, milk was supposed to be avoided postworkout, because it formed viscous clumps of gel in your gut that scared off the whey, rendering it useless. Well, at least that's how a lot of people made it sound. Meanwhile, research began to trickle in and change the way we viewed the situation.

Is Faster Better?

About a decade ago, Boirie's team compared the absorption rate and leucine kinetics of 30 grams casein to 30 grams whey, and their results were very interesting. Casein elevated blood amino acid levels for up to 300 minutes post-ingestion [1]. Whey, on the other hand, caused higher amino acid levels at the 100 minute point, and returned levels to baseline at 300 minutes. Casein caused a smaller increase in protein synthesis, but unlike whey, casein also inhibited protein breakdown.

The striking aspect about this study was the casein group achieved a better leucine balance than the whey group, indicating better nitrogen retention, thus better protein utilization. Casein caused a greater net positive protein balance than whey. This was a big win for casein, because all we really care about is remaining in a trend of positive protein balance amidst continual protein turnover.

In a later similar study, it was found that aside from known factors (including quantity of calories, amino acid composition, and micronutrition), the speed of digestion is an independent regulator of protein balance [2]. In other words, slower actually was observed to be better. Now let's see what happens when the rubber meets the road in comparison trials measuring the relevant endpoints.

The True Test: Comparative Effects On Body Composition and Strength

Seven years ago, Demling and Desanti compared the effect of a casein-dominant meal replacement product with a whey supplement. Overweight healthy police officers underwent a structured exercise program that included resistance training, under slightly hypocaloric conditions [3]. The dosing of each treatment was twice daily, once postworkout, and again 8-10 hours separately. The results? Whey got whooped by the casein-based meal replacement for strength gain, lean body mass gain and fat loss. Can we blame the superiority of the casein blend's results all on the 20 grams of carbohydrate it contained? Overall carbohydrate intake was controlled between the groups, however carbohydrate timing was not controlled, so carb timing could have made a minor impact. About a year after that study, Wojcik and colleagues compared an all-carbohydrate drink with a milk-based carb/protein recovery drink [4]. Each drink was dosed immediately postworkout and again two hours later. The results? No significant difference in rate of glycogen resynthesis.

More recently, Kerksick's team compared the strength and body composition effects of three treatments on resistance-trained men. One group received 40 grams of whey plus eight grams of casein. Another received 40 grams of whey plus three grams of BCAA plus five grams of glutamine. The last group received 48 grams of carbohydrate [5]. The supplements were ingested postworkout and on the mornings of non-exercise days. The casein/whey group had the greatest increase in lean mass, the carbohydrate group came in second without any gain, and the whey/BCAA/glutamine group actually lost lean mass. Calories were poorly controlled in this trial, But still, fast-absorbing whey and BCAA didn't shine as the be all and end all of protein and amino acid supplements.

The latest dairy protein fight as of this writing was performed by Cribb's team, who saw high-dose whey beat high-dose casein for strength gain, lean mass gain, and fat loss [6]. But once again, calories weren't controlled as tightly as necessary to level the playing field and allow us to draw any firm conclusions.

So Where Does This Leave Us?

The research comparing casein and whey is split almost right down the middle. Where it's headed from this point is really anyone's guess. Undoubtedly, funding source will play a big role in the direction of the research results. As the evidence stands, it certainly wouldn't hurt, and might actually be optimal to have a blend of the two and reap the best of both worlds. A popular practice is to have casein pre-bed, and whey near the training bout. But the reality is, the training bout is the most acutely catabolic point in your day, even though it's a necessary trigger for anabolism. Think about it, sleep ain't got NOTHING on the immediate muscle damage caused by battling the iron. So, why not have both of the best tools for each job present in circulation at the most critical point? Let's look at things logically. By saying that casein might get in the way of whey, we might as well say that the carbohydrate might get in the way of the protein, so let's separate them? Wrong. Protein and carbs act synergistically to increase muscle protein synthesis and inhibit protein breakdown. The same synergy can be achieved by having a combination of whey and casein near the workout. Maybe Mother Nature was right all along.

References

1. Boirie Y, et al. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1997;94(26):14930-5.
2. Dangin M, et al. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Feb;280(2):E340-8.
3. Demling RH, DeSanti L. Effect of a hypocaloric diet, increased protein intake and resistance training on lean mass gains and fat mass loss in overweight police officers. Ann Nutr Metab 2000;44(1):21-9.
4. Wojcik JR, et al. Comparison of carbohydrate and milk-based beverages on muscle damage and glycogen following exercise. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Dec;11(4):406-19.
5. Kerksick, et al. The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training. J Strength Cond Res. 2006 Aug;20(3):643-53.
6. Cribb, et al. The effect of whey isolate and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma glutamine. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006;16:494-509
 
hello there mister mister :)

how are you on this fine day? hope all is well. i didn't get a chance to wish you a Happy New Year so i will wish you now to have in the year to come health, love, success, good friends and tranquility :)

Thanks Lena, and ditto that for sure!
 
Back
Top