Journey, Not A Destination

Fuck man... how do you do it. You make me think beyond my own scope sometimes. The way you push me (yes, via the interwebz) is beyond a description I can really explain.

I just know from experience working with some pretty awesome people, especially clients, what questions to ask to help shift their focus and emotional milieu.

I like your take on P90x (and the others I am sure are the same, like Crossfit). It's a lot of calisthenics but just a piece of the puzzle, sometimes people need to drop cash down for packaged things that they can find elsewhere. I mean, financial motivation is one of the biggest driving forces people can use to lose weight (I mean, secondary to their initial desire to lose it in the first place).

Yea, I agree with that. It's why even personal trainers are successful often times even though they suck. They establish will, drive and consistency.

I have more problems with crossfit than I do most other methodologies. But at the end of the day, all these 'prepackaged' ways of training are simply one 'guys' take on how to apply the foundational principles.

Doesn't make them stupid or useless. Many can and do succeed with them. But without a true understanding of the foundational principles, I feel most trainees are always going to be floundering, searching for the 'way to train.'
 
Funny I was just about to ask about your current routine.

Seems like your in a holding pattern? Or am I missing your goals somewhere?

EDIT: Nevermind, I get it now. Just some overall training to not get yourself killed for your yearly trip. Good stuff... your still effing insane for taking that trip :)

I've been hearing that a lot lately. Every once in a while I love just training for pure performance for a given goal; in this case mountaineering in extreme conditions. It's fun to push the limits of your body.
 
Truth be told, I got started by plopping (sic?) down 500+ bucks at L.A. Weightloss over two years ago, I mean, after 3-4 months, I branched out on my own (and losing the initial 30 lbs) and did a ton of research. Now they are out of business but I don't consider it a waste because it woke something up inside of me...

Crossfit is a bit sloppy in my eyes... the fundamentals are there, don't get me wrong, but it goes about it half-assed shrouded in vagueness... smells like snake oil from a distance yano? I could be wrong but I'm just saying how it looks to me... it is a protocol for someone who want's a change of pace and is experienced in listening to their body.

P90x is the same to me, altho it is packaged more in depth, diet/fitness but again, this is for the 12-15% BF range, well below the national average, so results will vary as usual. Truth be told, all of this stuff is too advanced for the general population on these forums, because it's a little excessive and more basic routines are more beneficial. I actually watched someone do a p90x workout today (or begin it) and it's fairly hardcore (think HIIT weight training style). Still, this guy is a head trainer at a club and a Marine... so, it's all in the perspective of the "client"
 
I've been hearing that a lot lately. Every once in a while I love just training for pure performance for a given goal; in this case mountaineering in extreme conditions. It's fun to push the limits of your body.

I hope it doesn't dissuade you from taking the trip (I can't believe I am even typing it because I know it won't).
 
Right, these programs are a fine starting point. Most just starting out don't seem them in that light though. They seem them as The Answer. That usually leads to some problems.

As for crossfit, it's led to sloppy lifting for most. They promote pretty technical lifts in the face of fatigue, which usually leads to form breakdown.

Technical lifts with poor form is a great recipe for injury.

It has it's pros and cons. If applied appropriately, I don't see any glaringly wrong with it. But it's not the answer to any and all problems, that's for sure.
 
tires?? more than one?

Did you have this before?

Is your truck/car out of alignment causing the problem (I pretend I know what I'm talking aobut -kinda like working out and nutrition :)
 
No no, it was only one. One too many, but thankfully only one. It's not the alignment, but I'm not real sure what it is. It went flat before, I filled it up, and it's lasted for months. Probably closer to a year.

I filled this one up at the gas station and drove it back home to flip flop vehicles (it's my jeep that's giving me the problems) and the tire was still full by the time I got home.

A slow leak would not hold air for months on end.

Whatever, no biggy.
 
Doesn't make them stupid or useless. Many can and do succeed with them. But without a true understanding of the foundational principles, I feel most trainees are always going to be floundering, searching for the 'way to train.'


Along all the reading I've done here I've noticed that seems to be among one of your biggest pet peeves: people wanting to be told exactly what and how to do things without having to think for themselves. You seem to have a good understanding of people but I thought this might interest you anyway.

There's a certain personality types theory called MBTI. Some think its crap, I tend to think that it has at least some validity. Without going into a full lesson (we are on the internet after all :p ) a part of it simply says this. There are two types of thinkers: concrete and concept (not the technical words). Those that prefer to get the concepts before understanding all the nitty gritty are just wired differently from other people who focus almost exclusively on the details. The more "concrete" a thinker is, the less likely they are actually going to digest the concept. This is why some people seem completely unable to develop their own program regardless of how much you teach them.

I know, its not really enough, people NEED to understand something in order to use it for the rest of their lives, (which isn't technically true, many of them will gladly stick to a detail they were told was "correct" forever, as you've seen) I just thought you could use this at the very least to tell yourself that "its just how some people are; not really their fault" because I know, it IS frustrating.

:Angel_anim:
 
Ok so I don't know what I'm talking about...

But in my head you do realize that you didnt use a jack - you steve'd the car and lifted it up with one hand... took off the lug nuts with your free hand - lifted off the tire.. and replaced it... Very impressive.. and far less showy than my original thought of you carrying the car to the gas station :)
 
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I know, its not really enough, people NEED to understand something in order to use it for the rest of their lives, (which isn't technically true, many of them will gladly stick to a detail they were told was "correct" forever, as you've seen) I just thought you could use this at the very least to tell yourself that "its just how some people are; not really their fault" because I know, it IS frustrating.
Maybe true maybe not... but the vast majority of people that come into forums such as this are really just lazy and have no desire to learn for themselves -tehy want to be told what to do, when to do it, and how often - so that way when/if it doesn't work they have someone other than themselves to blame :D
 
Along all the reading I've done here I've noticed that seems to be among one of your biggest pet peeves: people wanting to be told exactly what and how to do things without having to think for themselves. You seem to have a good understanding of people but I thought this might interest you anyway.

There's a certain personality types theory called MBTI. Some think its crap, I tend to think that it has at least some validity. Without going into a full lesson (we are on the internet after all :p ) a part of it simply says this. There are two types of thinkers: concrete and concept (not the technical words). Those that prefer to get the concepts before understanding all the nitty gritty are just wired differently from other people who focus almost exclusively on the details. The more "concrete" a thinker is, the less likely they are actually going to digest the concept. This is why some people seem completely unable to develop their own program regardless of how much you teach them.

I know, its not really enough, people NEED to understand something in order to use it for the rest of their lives, (which isn't technically true, many of them will gladly stick to a detail they were told was "correct" forever, as you've seen) I just thought you could use this at the very least to tell yourself that "its just how some people are; not really their fault" because I know, it IS frustrating.

:Angel_anim:


I believe that I suppose. Problem is, more often than not I've seen people simply choose to finally make the effort to understand this stuff. More often than not, in my experience, it seems to be a case of mental laziness more than anything else.

Here on the Internet, I believe this to be the case more than anywhere else.

I'm pretty open and accepting of the idea that there's different starting places for different people.

Some people will do better with the concrete side of things for starters and others will do better with the conceptual side of things for starters. That's why I have no problem telling people what to do at times. Eventually though, they're going to have to invest the time into understanding this stuff if they ever want to truly be in control.
 
Ok so I don't know what I'm talking about...

But in my head you do realize that you didnt use a jack - you steve'd the car and lifted it up with one hand... took off the lug nuts with your free hand - lifted off the tire.. and replaced it... Very impressive.. and far less showy than my original thought of you carrying the car to the gas station :)

Hahaha, now that would be a site.

In truth, the jack I have for my jeep wouldn't work b/c of the lift I have on the suspension. It sits too high to be jacked up with my jack. That's why I was a little worried. But when it held air enough to make it home, I was relieved.
 
Maybe true maybe not... but the vast majority of people that come into forums such as this are really just lazy and have no desire to learn for themselves -tehy want to be told what to do, when to do it, and how often - so that way when/if it doesn't work they have someone other than themselves to blame :D

Ditto that.

I'm sure it sounds harsh and not being open and accepting of different people's abilities to learn or understand.

I've simply worked with a lot of people in my time and off the top of my head, I can't name a one who, once coaxed, wasn't able to understand it all. Possibly a few of the minors I've worked with.
 
I believe that I suppose. Problem is, more often than not I've seen people simply choose to finally make the effort to understand this stuff. More often than not, in my experience, it seems to be a case of mental laziness more than anything else.
Yeah, I'm sure that is the case very often actually. Many people don't want it to have a leading role in their lives, even if the absense of health and wellness IS a leading role in their lives.

Here on the Internet, I believe this to be the case more than anywhere else.
Seems kinda backward doesn't it. All the info at your fingertips and all you want is to find someone to tell you what to do. I've always gone the opposite way; I don't usually go to forums for info, I go to forums more for community and support. Others seem to show up and say "right, tell me this this this and that." Definitely lazy.

I'm pretty open and accepting of the idea that there's different starting places for different people.
You definitely seem to be. As a matter of fact, I don't know where you get the patience month in and month out.

Some people will do better with the concrete side of things for starters and others will do better with the conceptual side of things for starters. That's why I have no problem telling people what to do at times. Eventually though, they're going to have to invest the time into understanding this stuff if they ever want to truly be in control.

You are right, otherwise it's just way less likely to work well or long term. Plus, you do have more experience of it in this context. It was just a thought I've had reading around when I could almost feel the annoyance :)banghead:). I hope you didn't read it as criticism of you; that's not what I intended at all.

Also, sorry about interuppting the middle of a conversation here. :blush5:
 
Yeah, I'm sure that is the case very often actually. Many people don't want it to have a leading role in their lives, even if the absense of health and wellness IS a leading role in their lives.

In more cases than not, in my experience, simple assignments such as identifying your beliefs and values tend to shed light on why this happens. It seems painfully obvious but often times people are operating under misguided or false beliefs.

Beliefs are damn powerful and can really dictate what you do in life or how you do it.

Replacing misguided beliefs with more productive ones as well as examining the hierarchy of what's important in your life and smoothing out contradictions goes a long way in my experience.

Seems kinda backward doesn't it. All the info at your fingertips and all you want is to find someone to tell you what to do. I've always gone the opposite way; I don't usually go to forums for info, I go to forums more for community and support. Others seem to show up and say "right, tell me this this this and that." Definitely lazy.

It all stems from our culture. We want food, pop it in the microwave and it's ready in 2 minutes. Want a movie, press a couple of buttons on your controller. Want to see the view from the top of that mountain, drive your car up. It's endless. And it's no different here. People don't want to invest time in reading when there's many people out there who are simply going to tell them what to do.

In most cases, this only reinforces and enables to poor behavior.

You definitely seem to be. As a matter of fact, I don't know where you get the patience month in and month out.

It's a passion I was born with.

Or a curse, lol.

I love this stuff though.

You are right, otherwise it's just way less likely to work well or long term. Plus, you do have more experience of it in this context. It was just a thought I've had reading around when I could almost feel the annoyance :)banghead:). I hope you didn't read it as criticism of you; that's not what I intended at all.

Nope, I didn't take it as criticism at all. And I'm fallible just like the next guy/gal. I like criticism to be honest. It prompts me to reassess my own beliefs and ideas which is never a bad thing.

Also, sorry about interuppting the middle of a conversation here. :blush5:

Haha, don't you know. This journal is a cluster of hundreds of varying conversations. It's all good. :)
 
In more cases than not, in my experience, simple assignments such as identifying your beliefs and values tend to shed light on why this happens. It seems painfully obvious but often times people are operating under misguided or false beliefs.

Beliefs are damn powerful and can really dictate what you do in life or how you do it.

Replacing misguided beliefs with more productive ones as well as examining the hierarchy of what's important in your life and smoothing out contradictions goes a long way in my experience.
And so the trainer becomes the therapist. It must be one of the things that separates good trainer, from bad trainer, from evil trainer (which would be the one that understands these things and uses it to manipulate rather than enlighten). Its very cool you can do this; I've found many people don't have a clue what their values and beliefs are. I spend a lot of time navel gazing and get labelled "wierd" for it. Haha.



It all stems from our culture. We want food, pop it in the microwave and it's ready in 2 minutes. Want a movie, press a couple of buttons on your controller. Want to see the view from the top of that mountain, drive your car up. It's endless. And it's no different here. People don't want to invest time in reading when there's many people out there who are simply going to tell them what to do.

In most cases, this only reinforces and enables to poor behavior.
Guilty (sometimes). This is where cultural conditioning comes in. A good percentage of people (certain "types") automatically trust authority so this should work. I think its going in that direction but at some point it just won't be acceptable anymore. I do think we're wired to be lazy but the fact that we may be wired to cheat on each other isn't an excuse anymore so we can get past the lazy thing too, I think. We kind of have to.


It's a passion I was born with.

Or a curse, lol.

I love this stuff though.
Depends on the day huh? It shows though :) (that you love it)


Nope, I didn't take it as criticism at all. And I'm fallible just like the next guy/gal. I like criticism to be honest. It prompts me to reassess my own beliefs and ideas which is never a bad thing.



Haha, don't you know. This journal is a cluster of hundreds of varying conversations. It's all good. :)

Thanks! :party:
 
And so the trainer becomes the therapist. It must be one of the things that separates good trainer, from bad trainer, from evil trainer (which would be the one that understands these things and uses it to manipulate rather than enlighten). Its very cool you can do this; I've found many people don't have a clue what their values and beliefs are. I spend a lot of time navel gazing and get labelled "wierd" for it. Haha.

I've always been interested in the psychology. I suppose the 'hunger' for it started when I began working with some very obese individuals who were obviously frozen in contradictory thought patterns. I began studying things like neurolinguistic programming, cognitive behavioral therapy and the like.

Truth be told though, I don't subscribe to any particular method or science. I've taken bits and pieces from everything I've researched and sort of go with the flow with each client.

Everyone responds to different things and some clients don't need much of any push in terms of the mind.

Many do though.

And things like this where you almost force people to stop and think about what's really going on 'upstairs' almost always leads to some sort of improvement.

Guilty (sometimes). This is where cultural conditioning comes in. A good percentage of people (certain "types") automatically trust authority so this should work. I think its going in that direction but at some point it just won't be acceptable anymore. I do think we're wired to be lazy but the fact that we may be wired to cheat on each other isn't an excuse anymore so we can get past the lazy thing too, I think. We kind of have to.

This is a conversation unto itself.

There's certainly no right or wrong as to what will happen in the future but it's certainly interesting to me. Not so much the idea of when will people start owning up to themselves and taking action for personal betterment. I'm more interested in the, "Where will obesity go in the future in relation to evolution.

I mean, our society is fat for so many reasons. Primarily though, our society and technology has allowed for changes in the availability of food and lifestyle requirements far faster than our genome has been able to adapt to them.

As far as our physiology is concerned, we're still living without any food surplus, in a situation where it's actually an advantage to store fat whenever possible. Throw such a conservative system into an environment where such a scarce resource becomes absolutely plentiful...

Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the net outcome.

From this baseline, you can get into the idea of how we all have a choice. Yes, our genome has not caught up with our culture and advancements, but that doesn't mean one doesn't have the choice to be fit and healthy.

So is the obese person responsible? I'd say both yes and no. I think 'blame' is a more complex concept than just saying the obese person is lazy. I don't think a great many people understand how relatively easy it is to be not-fat; but at the same time it's an outside context problem. The problem isn't hard, it's just that people aren't thinking about it in the right way, and even once it's explained to them, they have trouble wrapping their heads around the idea. Or simply don't want to do it.

So in one sense, the obese person certainly is responsible for his/her own condition. After all, the obese person is the one that took in 7000 calories a day and did no exercise. For years. Though in another sense, people that have been in that state from childhood might simply have never thought any different.

On the other hand, the physiological situation and a simple lack of information or concern (see the correlation to the poor and uneducated) can make it more than simply a matter of "lazy".

Where will it go from here though, is the million dollar question. Who the hell knows.

Depends on the day huh? It shows though :) (that you love it)

Appreciate it.
 
Hey Steve! It's been awhile! Hope you are doing well. I'm doing actually really good with my fitness, life, etc. I've toned up and have prolly lost about 10 pounds since I've been on here last. I just came on to say hi and to see what's been going on in the forum. things have changed a bit. Do you know what happened to Cheryl (cym)?
 
Hey Steve! It's been awhile! Hope you are doing well. I'm doing actually really good with my fitness, life, etc. I've toned up and have prolly lost about 10 pounds since I've been on here last. I just came on to say hi and to see what's been going on in the forum. things have changed a bit. Do you know what happened to Cheryl (cym)?

Heck ya I remember you. Thought we lost you for good!

Are you going to stick around or just stopping in.

I haven't seen Cym around here in ages, unfortunately.

Glad to hear you're doing excellent. :)
 
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