i reallly need cutting advice

P

Proteinboy

2
i have been holding off cutting for a long time because i am afraid i will do it improperly and lose muscle. i want to have a very succesful cutting period and keep all my strength and lose little muscle. but i feel there is much i dont know about cutting.
i dont know what percentage of macronutrients i have to consume while cutting.
all i know is that i will cut my calorie intake by 250-400 daily, cut some carbs out and perform hiit 1-3 times weekly. i know that i have to cut the volume of my weight training days but i need some trusted protocols. would 3x5 be a good idea? 8x3? is fullbody 3x weekly good for cutting or is frequency supposed to be bumped up?

as you can see, im pretty confused about how to get a really good cutting period in. iv been bulking for a good 4-5 months and i really want to get cut. so can anyone explain the important factors to remember when cutting? :D any help will be reallllllly appreciated.
 
Well, firstly. How much do you weigh right now, and how successful has your bulk been?
 
What lower body fat % are you shooting for ?

If it's 10%, you've got to frop about 10 lbs of fat.

It also depends on the time horizon you want to take to reach your goal. For example, dropping 10 lbs of fat in 10 weeks shouldn't be something to put your existing muscle mass in too much jeopardy...dropping 10 lbs in 4 weeks is another matter that may require greater attention however.

As far a cutting macronutrient grams in order to lose fat, I think I'd visit your protein and fat gram intake first to see if you can safely shave something from those areas - before cutting carbs. You want to sustain a healthy carb level since both intense weight training and HIIT are significant drains on your glycogen stores - and carbs fuel glycogen stores.

Again, unless you have some idea of what your typical daily calorie consumption is now - also in terms of your proportion of macro-nutrients ( ie. fat and protien grams ) is now- it is is a bit difficult to determine what cuts you need to make from food intake alone, if any. Depending on the intensity and frequency per week of things like HIIT you plan on introducing, you can still might be able to make very minor calorie reductions from food ( i.e drop 10%+/- from maintenance levels ) keep them the same or even allow them to creep up a bit - and still lose fat.
 
(Silent) said:
Not sucha "good-eye" lol. Read his S>I>G!
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Silent, if you had a 'good-eye' you would have observed his sig has read that weight for the past month at least. Therefore I casually presumed, that proteinboy, in all his greatness would have gained some weight.
 
Woodt said:
Silent, if you had a 'good-eye' you would have observed his sig has read that weight for the past month at least. Therefore I casually presumed, that proteinboy, in all his greatness would have gained some weight.
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Lol, Well as you said. Thats an assumption. I'm assuming he has not gained much weight there for has not updated his sig:p.
 
lol...woodt is actually right. although it IS my fault that i havent updated my signature in a month or so. im 170lbs NOW and i think my bf is still around 15 give or take a bit. i can still see 2 abs but the top 2 and bottom 2 are covered.

thanks so much for the replies so far. well, taking off 1 lb a week sounds very fulfilling, as long as it is fat. thats a LOT of fat for just one week though...1 whole lb! in 10 weeks i will be very happy if i can get my bf down to 10%.

my big bulk i did for like 5 months brought me from 150 to 170 and i gained a ton of strength and muscle. i currently am eating around 2800 cals everyday with around 200+ g protein daily, and i dont really keep track of my carbs/fats but i do get adequate amounts/day. i will start tracking.

i plan on making HIIT as hard as i can for 10-15 mins. sprinting as hard as possible followed by fast walking cooldown, repeat. stregth training will be moderate, but this is the REAL AREA where i need advice!!! i have to know HOW to work out to keep this muscle!!!
i have read that 40% pro, 40%carbs, 20% fat is a good cutting macro. any ideas?
 
Proteinboy said:
lol...woodt is actually right.
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Lol congrats Woodt:p.

hmm, IMO when cutting with retaining LBM as ones main goal. I would be care full not to overwork your muscles. In theory it you over worked your muscles to a point which there were not enough "calories" to repair them. This could to lead to even greater amounts of muscle loss. If this "theory" held water then it would likely be best to stick with 8-12 reps. coupled with proper post nutrition and pre sleep nutrition and of course proper sleep. This should keep you in check of "over working" them in your calorie deficient state.
 
(Silent) said:
If this "theory" held water then it would likely be best to stick with 8-12 reps. coupled with proper post nutrition and pre sleep nutrition and of course proper sleep. This should keep you in check of "over working" them in your calorie deficient state.
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what is LBM?
and why would i stick to 8-12 reps for cutting? thats for hypertrophy? please explain.
i was thinking about doing strength training for cutting like some 8x3 or 3x5 instead of 10x3 and 5x5...as long as i keep the same weights or even make some improvements, i will assume i am not losing that much muscle.

what is everyone's opinion on cutting calories? i have read that cutting 500 is the way to go while i read in NROL Susan Kleiner said that a young strength trainee needs calories equal to 20x body weight to just MAINTAIN his current muscle tissue. thats freaking 3400 calories for me. im gaining with like 3000...
iv been told to fluctuate calories...or keep maintenance and i will lose if i do HIIT. im confused.
 
Proteinboy said:
what is LBM?
and why would i stick to 8-12 reps for cutting? thats for hypertrophy? please explain.
i was thinking about doing strength training for cutting like some 8x3 or 3x5 instead of 10x3 and 5x5...as long as i keep the same weights or even make some improvements, i will assume i am not losing that much muscle.
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LBM = Lean Body Mass
I say higher rep range because generally speaking. Low reps equal high weight. High weight equals more repair needed. In a calorie deficiencie its possible you would not have the amount of specific nutrients to maintain this constant repair. So in "theory" It would not be a great idea to completely "break down" the muscle while in a calorie deficient state. Your goal isn't to build more muscle mass its to retain what you have. So sticking with the low reps high weight will only place stress on your muscles that you "may" not be able to repair correctly while in the negative in terms of calories. Understand what Im saying?
 
what is LBM?
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Lean body mass

and why would i stick to 8-12 reps for cutting? thats for hypertrophy? please explain.
i was thinking about doing strength training for cutting like some 8x3 or 3x5 instead of 10x3 and 5x5...as long as i keep the same weights or even make some improvements, i will assume i am not losing that much muscle.
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Always train using all of those rep ranges. Doing only lower reps or only higher reps can only lead to stagnation. Do not assume that you will not lose muscle. That is what cutting is.

what is everyone's opinion on cutting calories?
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Take the advice on the 3400 calories. You are young and you do not have a high BF. Eat what you "would need to maintain" and create your caloric deficit through light cardio 3 - 4 days per week. This will help you maintain or gain lean mass, as well as help you recover form your weight training workouts.

Do not do high intensity cardio exercise if you are trying to maintain or gain lean mass. I emphasize the "light cardio." Brisk walk - 30-45 min.
 
i see where you are coming from. it kind of makes sense. but i dont see why i would use a hypertrophy set/rep scheme. 5x5 is popular for gaining strength and muscle so i thought that a 5x3 method would be logical because it is not as much volume as 5x5 so it wont really tear up the muscles more. i have been told many times to use heavy weights...but in NROL they use high reps for fat loss. a lot of contravoursy really bothers me as to i cant decide which to choose and how intense my training should be (in terms of percentage of 1rm).
 
georgen, i am gaining by eating 3000 calories so i am already sceptical about the 20x body weight idea since that says around 3400 cals is needed to maintain.
i do like the idea of eating maintenance calories and creating the deficit by implimenting cardio. but what is the difference between eating less calories and having them burnt by doing cardio?
...im getting more confused.
i have been told hiit is a great way to shred fat off the body. now i hear that i shouldnt do it when i want to maintain LBM?

this is why i just tell myself: "just keep bulking and get strong so that you can be ahead of the game. who cares about being lean. just get fast, strong and big"
even though i DO want to lose some fat, i think i am yet again deciding to keep on bulking...

do you think i can keep on eating maintenance/ a bit over maintenance and if my diet is VERY clean and i drink and do HIIT 2 times a week and SS cardio 1 time, drinking water yada yada yada that i can increase lean mass and reduce body fat?
 
but i dont see why i would use a hypertrophy set/rep scheme. 5x5 is popular for gaining strength and muscle so i thought that a 5x3 method would be logical because it is not as much volume as 5x5 so it wont really tear up the muscles more.
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1. Think about it this way. If you body adapts differently to different rep schemes, by doing a variety of reps you are more completely training your muscle.

If you stop doing higher reps for a 4 - 8 week training cycle you will lose all of the gains that you made in that rep range. So when you start doing higher reps again you will start below the weight you ended with when you stopped. Which is crazy.

2. You are not using ONLY a hypertrophy set/rep scheme. You are layering your workouts so that you get a more complete adaptation to weight training without having to go through as many peaks and valleys.

3. Training across time is adapting your body to be able to do a higher training volume and lift heavier weights. Neglecting either of these things is going to lead to stagnation.

4. Doing heavier weights and lower reps is more nervous system based than muscular based. So even though you think you are not breaking down the muscle as much, you are fatiguing the nervous system more. This is yet another reason to always train higher and lower reps. Since the training is going to affect your system in different ways and decrease the likelihood that you are going to overtrain.

I hope this helps. Just keep posting more questions if you need me to explain better.
 
yea, its helping me out a lot. its great to have someone actually answer some stuff. +rep

just to clear this up: im not cutting yet. i am gathering info

you said that you should train your body with a variety of set/rep ranges. i understand this. i began by doing some 3x8 and progressed down to 5x5 and am about to go into 3x3. i am still bulking. after a couple weeks on 3x3, i plan on doing some higher rep stuff whether i be cutting or bulking. do you think i will have lost progress on my 3x8? i have been getting stronger with lower reps, higher weight but i have been neglecting higher rep stuff, i admit. what do you suggest i do after the 3x3?

would you recommend starting with higher reps like 3x12 for X weeks, then going to 3x10 for X weeks, 4x8 for X weeks, 3x8 for X weeks, 5x5 for X weeks, 3x5 for X weeks....ect

i have to know how to structure my long term pattern of weight lifting
edit: i plan on doing hypertrophy I in NROL.
can somebody shed light on why it has 4x10 and 3x15 rep schemes in the programs? sounds like endurance work to me...
 
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georgen, i am gaining by eating 3000 calories so i am already sceptical about the 20x body weight idea since that says around 3400 cals is needed to maintain.
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Sometimes eating more is what will push you into losing fat. I have had experience losing BF when I increased my fat consumption 10% (I am not telling you to do this, it is an example, all people will react differently.)

but what is the difference between eating less calories and having them burnt by doing cardio?
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Because you are not creating a caloric deficit twice. If you cut calories by 500 you already have a 500 cal deficit. If you burn calories with your weight training and your cardio training you are creating a larger deficit. Could be as much as 1000 cal when it is all said and done. Which is too much when you are trying to maintain lean mass.

i have been told hiit is a great way to shred fat off the body. now i hear that i shouldnt do it when i want to maintain LBM?
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HIIT is a great way to cut BF. The issue with the high intensity is that it will further break down the muscle, increasing your need for recovery time as opposed to decreasing your need for recovery like lower intensity cardio does.

If you want a high amount of lean mass, the goal of cardio it to utilize fat as a fuel source without further breaking down your body.

do you think i can keep on eating maintenance/ a bit over maintenance and if my diet is VERY clean and i drink and do HIIT 2 times a week and SS cardio 1 time, drinking water yada yada yada that i can increase lean mass and reduce body fat?
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Personally I think the HIIT is unnecessary (as discussed above). Doing lighter cardio will have a greater benefit for fat loss and muscle gain. Eating clean is always a good idea. If you do that your bodyfat will not get out of control, so you will not need much cutting. Unless you need the type of conditioning that HIIT provides it really puts a hinderance on gaining lean muscle mass.

So, yes, you can increase muscle mass while decreasing bodyfat. You will not be able to do it if you are trying to get to 5%. But if you are trying to get to 10-12% from your current 15% Yes it is possible.
 
so do you think i should up the calories to 3200-3400? i will play bball or go on a bikeride for like 30-45 mins 3 times a week. diet will be clean. training will be hypertrophy I from NROL. what do you think i can expect in terms of body fat %? i cant imagine losing body fat while gaining muscle...just seems like a pipe dream to me.

and one of those piece of crap calorie calculators says my maintenance is 2500 while NROL says it should be 3400? i think i should shoot in between for 3000, somewhere arond there. opinions?
 
I have answered some questions about training different reps schemes in the FULL BODY WORKUT Thread started by soccergod. There is an example for him in that thread, but you will see that reps can be changed from workout to workout.

You can also train different reps in the same workout. So a workout might be -

EX 1. 1-3 reps / or power exercise
EX 2&3. 5-8 reps
EX 4&5. 8-12 reps
EX 6&7. 12-15 reps.

This way you are always training all rep ranges. You can keep track of your strength / power because it is done in the beginning of the workout when you are fresh. You can keep track of you reps and rotate the exercises you are using for that day so that you are training your exercises in different reps ranges on a week to week basis.

This allows you to cycle exercises through rep ranges on a regular basis while never neglecting any rep range.

edit: i plan on doing hypertrophy I in NROL.
can somebody shed light on why it has 4x10 and 3x15 rep schemes in the programs? sounds like endurance work to me...
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Endurance work is more like 20+ reps or doing an exercise for time as opposed to reps. 10-15 reps can be considered to be a pretty standard "hypertrophy" rep range.

I am not an advocate of following one book or persons progam. Take principals from every source that you have and apply the ones that fit your goals and abilities the best. There is a learning curve, but you wil come up with the best training system for you.

so do you think i should up the calories to 3200-3400? i will play bball or go on a bikeride for like 30-45 mins 3 times a week. diet will be clean. training will be hypertrophy I from NROL. what do you think i can expect in terms of body fat %? i cant imagine losing body fat while gaining muscle...just seems like a pipe dream to me.

and one of those piece of crap calorie calculators says my maintenance is 2500 while NROL says it should be 3400? i think i should shoot in between for 3000, somewhere arond there. opinions?
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Bball is not light cardio, you are mostly anaerobic (using sugar as energy source) I would still play, don't count it as a workout though. The bike ride is good, walking is good, the key is light, something that is not very fatiguing.

Your maintenance will most likely be somewhere between the 2500 and 3400. If you have a high activity level I would start by erring on the higher side. Over time you will get a feel for where you really are.

You are only talking about losing a few % BF, not 15-20%. The slight change should not hinder your strength and muscle gain all that much. It would be a different story if you needed to lose 10% + BF.

I think I talked about a NROL thing above. Let me know if that helps or not.

Don't worry about anything seeming like a pipe dream. People who say something is not possible are usually interrupted by someone already doing it.
 
awesome response. i like the way you told me i could have different rep and set ranges in each workout. makes it easier to keep track of all the ranges without losing sight of one.

yea, your info helped me out but i figure i actually will not do a cutting session...im just going to push myself about eating clean and doing a bit more cardio. thanks for the help.
any other advice anyone has is welcome and appreciated.
thankyou, georgen
 
yea, your info helped me out but i figure i actually will not do a cutting session...im just going to push myself about eating clean and doing a bit more cardio. thanks for the help.
any other advice anyone has is welcome and appreciated.
thankyou, georgen
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Good choice. You will get a good response from eating cleaner anyhow.
 
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