Fat and Protein Diet.

R

Roek

0
I've heard of a diet where one limits carbohydrate intake to the minimum 60 grams required for body processes, and the rest of the calories come from fat and protein. The body, having little carbohydrates starts to use fat as it's primary energy source and this way one can control the amount of fat taken in and thus control the body-fat percentage. How does this diet work exactly? I'd appreciate any light you guys may shed on me.

-Roek
 
Its called "Ketogenisis" where your bodys intake of Carbs are strictly reduced and while your protein intake is heightened. Ketogenesis is a specialized process of the body in which when we encounter stress or starvation we rely more heavily on fat as fuel. In turn It means we burn more fat and faster at that However. Their are many side affects to this including destabilizing blood sugar levels (making onces insulin less affective.)

as well as the presence of "ketones" causes blood vessels to enlarge, which can cause pressure-related headaches.
As a result, people will normally become nauseous and sick, and you will not feel as hungry.
Besides headaches, nausea, and loss of appetite, and can also lead to bad breath.

If you can withstand the side affects and stay on the diet for quite some time, then good for you. However most people who can successfully shift their body into a Ketogenic state do not stay on the diet for long.

Edit
I seem to forgot to add what exactly are "Ketones"
When you Exclude carbohydrates from your diet, certain chemical reactions begin to occur. The most important and obvious of which is a reaction called ketosis. Your brain is normally fueled by glucose. When a ketogenic diet is in place it prevents enough glucose from being available to fuel your brain, The brain then looks for Alternative fuel sources. your liver starts producing whats called ketones, by taking in fat and converting it to these ketones. The ketones are then fed to the brain to help it stay alive. And the end result is a Glucose replacement ;). although as i decribed ealier, not always the most pleasant thing.
 
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VERY nice write-up Silent.

I'm more a fan of carb cycling, to try to avoid ketosis while still maximizing fat loss. Basically on cardio or rest days, you do 60g of carbs with at least 25g of that coming from fiber (so those calories don't actually count).
On weight training days, take in more like 1g per pound of bodyweight, agian 25+grams of fiber, and most of your other carbs are gonna be pre-workout and post workout.

I've done something like that and had good results when I stayed with it.
 
(Silent) said:
...As a result, people will normally become nauseous and sick, and you will not feel as hungry.
Besides headaches, nausea, and loss of appetite, and can also lead to bad breath.
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In other words, this is not the optimal diet for most. In addition to the effects Silent listed, mental lapses, or "zoning out", has also been reported. Carbohydrates are needed for your body to function properly. The key is moderation and a concentration on complex carbs, not simply elimating most or all of them.
 
Alright, so the body relies heavily on carbohydrates as an energy source by default. But isn't that why with Ketogenesis you take at least 60 grams of carbohydrates?

How and why does carb cycing work?

-Roek
 
Roek said:
Alright, so the body relies heavily on carbohydrates as an energy source by default. But isn't that why with Ketogenesis you take at least 60 grams of carbohydrates?

How and why does carb cycing work?

-Roek
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Where did you read the 60grams from? Most people who try to enter a Ketogentic state simply cut out all carbs or as much as they possibly can.

As for carb cycling this is something malkore will have to answer, as i have not educated myself on the science of "carb cycling" enough to explain to another.
 
Karky, glycogen is robbed from muscles but that is why the person emphasizes taking in what could almost be considered irregular amounts of protein, to reduce the effect. At least that's what I heard.

And about the 60 grams, I read that on some magazine, might have been a book. Since the body needs carbohydrates to work properly, when going through Ketogenesis, you intake at least 60 grams so the body can use them in important chemical processes in the body. Which in particular, I don't know. It makes sense though.

-Roek
 
Roek said:
Karky, glycogen is robbed from muscles but that is why the person emphasizes taking in what could almost be considered irregular amounts of protein, to reduce the effect. At least that's what I heard.

And about the 60 grams, I read that on some magazine, might have been a book. Since the body needs carbohydrates to work properly, when going through Ketogenesis, you intake at least 60 grams so the body can use them in important chemical processes in the body. Which in particular, I don't know. It makes sense though.

-Roek
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what do you mean by carb cycle? you mean the glucose pathway?

thats right theres only about 2000 cals of glycogen, the body uses about 200g a day from which 120 is to the brain. I dont know why they say 60grams because the body can produce glucose from other metabolites.

And by the way theres very little glycogen in muscle, most of its in the liver.

A number of another things from a ketogenic diet is dehydration from urinating the acids, electrolyte imbalace, bad breath from the acetone, & degredation of protein.
 
matt182 said:
what do you mean by carb cycle? you mean the glucose pathway?

thats right theres only about 2000 cals of glycogen, the body uses about 200g a day from which 120 is to the brain. I dont know why they say 60grams because the body can produce glucose from other metabolites.

And by the way theres very little glycogen in muscle, most of its in the liver.

A number of another things from a ketogenic diet is dehydration from urinating the acids, electrolyte imbalace, bad breath from the acetone, & degredation of protein.
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The concentration of glycogen by relative weight may be greater in the liver, but in terms of absolute amounts, a greater amount of glycogen is provided by the muscles is it not ?

I thought - for an average personn - the muscles can store about 350 grams of glycogen or about 1,400 calories worth. The purpose of muscle glycogen being primarily as an energy source for working muscle ( be it during aerobic or anaerobic exercise )

As for the liver, isn't it much less ? I assumed it was something more like 85+ grams of glycogen or 340+ calories. The purpose of liver glycogen being primarily as a means of stabilizing blood glucose.
 
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matt182 said:
well hepatic cells store 10% netwweight while muscle is only 1%.

but anyway, better stay on topic :D
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Correct. That's why I said " concentration of glycogen by relative weight may be greater in the liver ".........poor wording on my part. :eek:

In any event, I simply wanted to clarify that but the total amount of glycogen found in muscles ( in grams ) exceeds the amount of glycogen found in the liver.
 
by carb cycling, I mean you might really restrict carbs for 3 days in a row, then on day 4 you re-feed by taking in a higher number of carbs (maybe 1g per lb of bodyweight as an example) which refuels glycogen, and doesn't let you stay in ketosis if you even get there in the first place.

The deal is, doctors will put 800lb morbidly obese people on a ketosis diet for rapid weight loss, because too many ketones is the lesser of two evils (the other being "this guy is about to die becuase he's an 800lb land-whale).

Numbnuts like Atkins turned it into a way for slightly fat people to eat, "sure, skip the bread and eat a pound of bacon instead. its a zero carb food after all!"
 
ank said:
Low carb diet is bad...period
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Can you elaborate?

There is no physiological requirement for carbs by our body.

I would still shoot for 50 grams or so of carbs per day, for multiple reasons. Namely muscle maintenance. While dieting, you are more than likely going to lose some muscle. Couple dieting with no carbs and you are setting yourself up for more muscle loss than need be.

If you want to avoid ketosis, and assuming you are training relatively hard each week, you should intake approx. 150+ grams of carbs.

If you don't have a problem with ketosis, again, I would shoot for 50.

ETA: I agree with Malkore, carb cycling is the way to go, especially the leaner you get. If you have a good bit of fat too lose, straight caloric deficit dieting with a balanced diet (keeping protein and EFAs in check) will be sufficient IMO.
 
elaborate?

Well first of all that would mean consuming lots of fat and that itself is not good for the body. The ketosis will occur and that itself has its negatives. I would imagine if your trying to limit carb intake you would be defecient in a number of other things such as vitemins & minerals..
 
matt182 said:
elaborate?

Well first of all that would mean consuming lots of fat and that itself is not good for the body. The ketosis will occur and that itself has its negatives. I would imagine if your trying to limit carb intake you would be defecient in a number of other things such as vitemins & minerals..
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Did I ask you?

If I wanted your "OPINION," I would certainly ask. But given the info you've provided so far on the other thread.... I think I'll pass. Thanks though. :)

While I have you though, in your mind, there is no way to go about low carbing in a healthy fashion?

Mind you, I am not an advocate of low carb diets. You can go to various forums and see me speak against them. But I don't say that they are unhealthy. I do think for some individuals, low carbing for a select period of time is ideal for certain goals. Certainly not a long-term dieting approach, but on the flip-side, certainly not something to say, "absolutely bad for you and you should never do one." So I am interested in hearing your take.

If essential aminos, essential fats, and vitamins and minerals are in check..... what is wrong. And assuming you can tolerate ketosis?
 
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By low carb i meant next to zero. But mate you seem pretty well informed yourself so do wateva ya want buddy, stooge..
 
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