Breast Implants
- Thread starter aeonteal
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I think the whole issue boils down to whether you are doing it for yourself or for other people. If you have a perfectly normal body and average breasts and you think people will like you better if you get implants, then that's wrong. Getting implants to make men like you will do nothing for you or your self esteem. Breast implants are not a cure for low self esteem. The underlying self esteem problem must be fixed first.
If you were born with abnormal breasts, had to get them removed due to cancer, lost a bunch of weight, or are completely confident in yourself but just want one bit of improvement for yourself, then it's okay.
I personally am very happy with myself and my body. I have very small breasts. I look at the advantages rather than the disadvantages. Some men perfer smaller breasts. Big breasts get in the way. Big breasts need a lot of support. I also think about the future and what could happen to my body. When I decide to get pregnant, they could get bigger. I don't really want this, but it could happen and I have to learn how to deal with it.
So basically, if you have low self esteem, getting breast implants will not make you feel better about yourself. It may actually harm your self esteem even further.
If you were born with abnormal breasts, had to get them removed due to cancer, lost a bunch of weight, or are completely confident in yourself but just want one bit of improvement for yourself, then it's okay.
I personally am very happy with myself and my body. I have very small breasts. I look at the advantages rather than the disadvantages. Some men perfer smaller breasts. Big breasts get in the way. Big breasts need a lot of support. I also think about the future and what could happen to my body. When I decide to get pregnant, they could get bigger. I don't really want this, but it could happen and I have to learn how to deal with it.
So basically, if you have low self esteem, getting breast implants will not make you feel better about yourself. It may actually harm your self esteem even further.
Yes, there are complications from any surgery (from c-sections to boob jobs), people can die and have complications from anything as routine as a tonsilectomy and as serious as bipass surgery. Basically whether you are putting something in or taking something out.
However, I think the point here is that the people who have chosen, for reasons of their own, to "have something surgically implanted in their bodies for cosmetic sake" don't go around questioning the decisions, mental well being, confidence level, self esteem, ability to make sound secisions and ability to evalutate risk assesment or question the character (or lackthereof) of the people who chose not to...
However, I think the point here is that the people who have chosen, for reasons of their own, to "have something surgically implanted in their bodies for cosmetic sake" don't go around questioning the decisions, mental well being, confidence level, self esteem, ability to make sound secisions and ability to evalutate risk assesment or question the character (or lackthereof) of the people who chose not to...
is that not like saying "if michael jackson wanted to be white, whats wrong with him getting surgery to be what he really wanted? whats wrong with that?"
to me, any kind of plastic surgery/implants is like running from yourself because of an insecurity you failed to conquer.
why not just embrace what you have and accept what you do not have?
in a way, getting breast implants is deciving people. It makes them think that you have large breasts when in reality, you do not. you have silicom packets.
besides, not all people who get implants are happy with their descision ...especially during recovery
i agree with spiceypumpkin...implants should not be used to raise a self esteem issue. that is a conflict to be dealt with in a very different way; not surgery.
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This whole conversation has gone ti*ts up!
hi protein boy. thanks for your comment. i'd like to address it:
no i don't think your example relates in any way to the examples that i provided. not only did i take the time to think about them so they didn't come across as reactionary, they were based on someone making a personal decision to change something about himself/herself that is not only medically proven to be relatively safe, but also something that they believed would make them happier. so, for that reason, your example and mine are not the same thing. i do believe that you picked an unrealistic, extreme example based on someone who is insecure. that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about.
moreover, your comment: "to me, any kind of plastic surgery/implants is like running from yourself because of an insecurity you failed to conquer" is a bit strange. failed to conquer? we're talking about someone's body and their decision to get implants. having an "abnormally" large nose that you are unhappy with has nothing to do with "conquering." it is what it is, period.
another difference between my last post and the one you posted is that i specifically mentioned someone who is secure wanting to have implants. in fact, i made it a point to say that i'm NOT talking about someone who is obviously insecure. your response leads me to infer that the two ideas (self assurance & breast implants) can't co-exist. i don't agree because i think an adult who is secure is capable of deciding that they want to do something for themselves to make themselves happy. someone who is secure and decides to make a decision that they think will improve their own life doesn't have the self esteem issues that you are unfairly imposing on him/her.
and, basically, i think you are coming from a different angle than i am. i'm not talking about getting implants for anyone but oneself -- thus the idea that one person is deceiving other people is irrelevant.
finally, it's obvious that not everyone is happy with implants or that there can be complications. everyone knows this. but, on the same token and despite the fact that there can be complications, it's actually a safe procedure and for some people it's worth taking the chance.
of course in an ideal world, everyone would love themselves the way they were born. the reality of the matter is that we are all a product of genetics and our environment (eg: society). if there is something that can help a person to feel better about themselves, the question still remains, who are we to judge?
no i don't think your example relates in any way to the examples that i provided. not only did i take the time to think about them so they didn't come across as reactionary, they were based on someone making a personal decision to change something about himself/herself that is not only medically proven to be relatively safe, but also something that they believed would make them happier. so, for that reason, your example and mine are not the same thing. i do believe that you picked an unrealistic, extreme example based on someone who is insecure. that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about.
moreover, your comment: "to me, any kind of plastic surgery/implants is like running from yourself because of an insecurity you failed to conquer" is a bit strange. failed to conquer? we're talking about someone's body and their decision to get implants. having an "abnormally" large nose that you are unhappy with has nothing to do with "conquering." it is what it is, period.
another difference between my last post and the one you posted is that i specifically mentioned someone who is secure wanting to have implants. in fact, i made it a point to say that i'm NOT talking about someone who is obviously insecure. your response leads me to infer that the two ideas (self assurance & breast implants) can't co-exist. i don't agree because i think an adult who is secure is capable of deciding that they want to do something for themselves to make themselves happy. someone who is secure and decides to make a decision that they think will improve their own life doesn't have the self esteem issues that you are unfairly imposing on him/her.
and, basically, i think you are coming from a different angle than i am. i'm not talking about getting implants for anyone but oneself -- thus the idea that one person is deceiving other people is irrelevant.
finally, it's obvious that not everyone is happy with implants or that there can be complications. everyone knows this. but, on the same token and despite the fact that there can be complications, it's actually a safe procedure and for some people it's worth taking the chance.
of course in an ideal world, everyone would love themselves the way they were born. the reality of the matter is that we are all a product of genetics and our environment (eg: society). if there is something that can help a person to feel better about themselves, the question still remains, who are we to judge?
unrealistic? whats unrealistic abut mj?
mj wanted to be more attractive so he got surgery
just like if a woman wanted to be more attractive, she gets surgery
this confused you?
of course mj's case is more extreme but its the same desire:changing oneself to be attractive did you miss the correlation there?
mj's insecure? if you say so...
lol when i talked about conquering i meant you have to conquer your insecurity.
you see, the desire of surgery comes from an insecurity(or else there would be no "problem", or reasn to get the surgery to begin with).
ie: small breasts, crooked nose
at this point, you can either deal with the insecurity and overcome it(conquer) and learn to accept yourself for everything you are and how God made you,
or you can change yourself by going under the knife, denying your true identity, seeking an "improvement"
ie: you have a oversized nose and you are uncomfortable with it, so you want surgery.
you can either conquer your insecurity and be happy with who you are
or you can overpay a doc to slice it into shape
understand?
i apolagize for confusing you.
"it is what it is. period."
im glad you agree with me. let it be; you are how you were created, it is what it is, like you said. period.
bottom line is men and women focus too much on outward appearances.
surgery to "improve" your mental outlook on oneself is completely unneeded. its just an escape from an insecurity which was brought up by society's unforgiving views of beauty
mj wanted to be more attractive so he got surgery
just like if a woman wanted to be more attractive, she gets surgery
this confused you?
of course mj's case is more extreme but its the same desire:changing oneself to be attractive did you miss the correlation there?
mj's insecure? if you say so...
lol when i talked about conquering i meant you have to conquer your insecurity.
you see, the desire of surgery comes from an insecurity(or else there would be no "problem", or reasn to get the surgery to begin with).
ie: small breasts, crooked nose
at this point, you can either deal with the insecurity and overcome it(conquer) and learn to accept yourself for everything you are and how God made you,
or you can change yourself by going under the knife, denying your true identity, seeking an "improvement"
ie: you have a oversized nose and you are uncomfortable with it, so you want surgery.
you can either conquer your insecurity and be happy with who you are
or you can overpay a doc to slice it into shape
understand?
i apolagize for confusing you.
"it is what it is. period."
im glad you agree with me. let it be; you are how you were created, it is what it is, like you said. period.
bottom line is men and women focus too much on outward appearances.
surgery to "improve" your mental outlook on oneself is completely unneeded. its just an escape from an insecurity which was brought up by society's unforgiving views of beauty
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mj is a bad example. i personally don't think he had surgery to "become white". that's silly. is there even a surgery to do that? i also don't think he got burned. i just happen to believe that he has vitiligo (explaining the skin and makeup) and that his childhood was rough and that he has self esteem issues. but really, none of us know him so i think it's best to stick to hypotheticals and not use examples of people that no one knows or will ever know or understand.
i wasn't confused by your initial message but i must admit that your last message is quite confusing (and on the defensive and condescending side).
i'm not sure how to be more clear than i've already been. i'm talking about someone who is secure and makes a decision, just like any other decision a secure, adult is entitled to make. it just so happens that we are talking about breast implants (which is what makes this interesting).
and, another thing that i think you aren't understanding from my message is that i'm not talking about someone who has to "conquer" anything. again, i'm talking about a secure, mature adult who has made a decision to do something that they think will improve the quality of their life, which in this case just so happens to be breast implants. sure, they could live with the nose or breasts they are born with but they could also make a decision to have surgery. there is nothing inherently wrong with plastic surgery at all though you seem to think that it is inherently bad -- a sign that someone MUST be insecure should they have it. it's just freakin' surgery. it's not going to change these people into superheros or supermodels. it's surgery, plain and simple.
you have yet to explain how security and wanting to do something that you think will make yourself feel better can't co-exist. you said:
"you see, the desire of surgery comes from an insecurity(or else there would be no "problem", or reasn to get the surgery to begin with)."
that's an assumption and quite frankly, isn't necessarily true. as far and i can tell, the only negative connotations relating to breast implants in the scenario that i've laid out are your own assumptions which are judgmental and presumptuous.
i wasn't confused by your initial message but i must admit that your last message is quite confusing (and on the defensive and condescending side).
i'm not sure how to be more clear than i've already been. i'm talking about someone who is secure and makes a decision, just like any other decision a secure, adult is entitled to make. it just so happens that we are talking about breast implants (which is what makes this interesting).
and, another thing that i think you aren't understanding from my message is that i'm not talking about someone who has to "conquer" anything. again, i'm talking about a secure, mature adult who has made a decision to do something that they think will improve the quality of their life, which in this case just so happens to be breast implants. sure, they could live with the nose or breasts they are born with but they could also make a decision to have surgery. there is nothing inherently wrong with plastic surgery at all though you seem to think that it is inherently bad -- a sign that someone MUST be insecure should they have it. it's just freakin' surgery. it's not going to change these people into superheros or supermodels. it's surgery, plain and simple.
you have yet to explain how security and wanting to do something that you think will make yourself feel better can't co-exist. you said:
"you see, the desire of surgery comes from an insecurity(or else there would be no "problem", or reasn to get the surgery to begin with)."
that's an assumption and quite frankly, isn't necessarily true. as far and i can tell, the only negative connotations relating to breast implants in the scenario that i've laid out are your own assumptions which are judgmental and presumptuous.
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I get your point that there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to change oneself with surgery, yet this attitude seems to suggest that there is something inherently wrong with the natural human body. Yes, we were all dealt what genetics and environment gave us, but most of the time we are natural. Some women may have smaller breasts, but they were meant to be small for a reason. The cosmetic surgery industry is slowly spreading the propaganda that you will be "happier" if you have large breasts. There are no statistics, that I know of, that support that women with larger breasts are happier. Hearing all of this stuff about getting implants to make oneself "happy" is starting to make me insecure now. (No not really). I mean, who am I to say that I'm happy with my small breasts if everyone is getting implants to be happy with themselves? Is there something wrong with me? Obviously not. But, you get my point. Whether or not we are happy with our bodies depends on a lot of factors, and unfortunately, much of it is based on the media. We see girls like Britney and Lindsay sporting their huge breasts and living a glamorous lifestyle. We connect large breasts to success, money, fame and most importantly sexual attractiveness. But that's just one image. There are so many variations on the female body that can and should be embraced by the media. I know for a fact that small breasts are not a turn off for men. If they were, half of the female population would be single and hopeless. There is not one mold that we all must try to fit in to. Our obsession as a society to amplify what makes women women and what makes men men, has turned our role models (celebrities) into caricatures. Women with overly inflated breasts and buttocks are mainstream in advertising and popular media.
Just my two cents. Take them as you will.
But I will end with one thing. Getting large breasts will not make me happy. Loving myself, loving my body and finding someone who loves and accepts me for who I am will make me happy. (Not to mention it costs a heck of a lot less than implants.)
Just my two cents. Take them as you will.
But I will end with one thing. Getting large breasts will not make me happy. Loving myself, loving my body and finding someone who loves and accepts me for who I am will make me happy. (Not to mention it costs a heck of a lot less than implants.)
1) Yes you have buddy, they just haven't told you
. Maybe they're afraid that you'll get all judgemental on them. 2) Breasts losing volume after breast feeding, sagging due to age, feminine clothes not fitting etc
3) It may well be natural but I bet you wouldn't be too happy if your ***** 'naturally' got 50% smaller. Until you've experienced what these women have then you shouldn't judge
You're pretty much making a straight line here from "wanting to be more attractive" to "being insecure". What about those of us who spend a lot of time and effort on exercise and diet to get better looking bodies, is that also a sign of insecurity?
Wanting to be attractive is a very natural thing. Not wanting to be more attractive is very unnatural. You don’t just see this in humans but in most animals. All naturally strive to get the best partner they can, next to basic survival it’s one of the most dominating instincts we have.
It’s also reflected in how we view others. People who let themselves go, we view as lazy and weak. People who do the work to become more attractive are generally admired.
You’re viewing this from the wrong direction. The desire to be more attractive is very natural, and honestly, if you present someone with the ability to cost- and riskfree to improve their looks and they say no, that’s what would be really strange in my book.
Whether you’re willing to accept surgical risks is another matter.
Do you say the same thing to people with acne, shortsightedness or reproductive problems? People who drive cars instead of walking? How do you distinguish which natural things we fight with our technology, and which we should just accept as “natural”?
It is well documented that implants improve life quality in general
Of course, some don’t get happier (you’re not seeing increase for 100%), and obviously it is only women who want implants that get them. Someone who doesn’t want implants and gets them for artificial reasons (“I don’t want them, but it’s working for everyone else), it’s anyone’s guess how they’d react to it.
I don’t really think that you’re thinking there’s something wrong with you because of this. We all have to come to terms with the fact that there is always someone prettier out there, and that we could do more about our attractiveness if we wanted. We could exercise more, diet stricter, get better clothing, take dancing classes, charisma courses, whatever. Somewhere we all draw the line of how much effort we want to put into our looks.
well, i don't really think we are on the same wavelength. i'm in no way insinuating that there is something inherently wrong with the human body if someone decides to get implants. in my last post i even mentioned that the particular person i'm talking about could choose to live with their breasts or make a choice to have surgery. it's as simple as that. a lot of people are reading way, way too much into my question but that also highlights that social perception and cultural stigma that is still attached to implants and that's exactly what i was interested in learning from you guys.
regarding this so-called propaganda, i don't personally believe that it's true and i'm not too concerned with it because it's counterproductive in the long run. of course we live in society and it affects us, and there is no way that we can possibly live outside of it and that's okay. the only way that it is negative is if someone allows negativity to dictate the way they live. blaming the media is a waste of time in the sense that it's a path to nothing but frustration because it's not actually making someone feel bad. a magazine picture can't make someone feel bad. but, someone with low self-esteem who sees a pictures of jessica alba might feel bad. there's a difference. a secure person learns to live within society, is self aware and strives to be happy. but yes, it can be a learning process, particularly for woman, which is why i'm talking about a secure woman. and, wasn't it you who was such a staunch advocate against blaming society/media for imposing images of thin women? (eg: the media's portrayal of thin woman and the social backlash against thin women) i'm pretty sure it was you because i agreed with you.
large breasts or small breasts -- there is nothing wrong with either one. but i'm talking about someone who has decided to have a surgery because they think it will improve the quality of their life, not transform them into lindsey lohan. if that was the case, then of course it'd be ridiculous. i'm not talking about someone who wants to get breasts because they think it will attract men. that would also be silly. i'm not saying it doesn't happen and that your point isn't valid. it just has little to do with what i was talking about in my last post.
and finally, if you are happy the way you are and don't ever have any desire to get implants, then that's your decision. it doesn't mean that you are more secure or happy than the secure woman who gets implants. it's literally just your decision. if you think that someone should just accept you for the way you are, i happen to agree. but again, i'm not bringing in any other people into this scenario. i'm talking about a secure woman, living in the same society, who has made a choice about how she'd like to live her life, just as you have decided how you like to live yours.
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nicolasd said:
Exactly! What's being missed here is that all of us in this forum are trying to alter our bodies--we just chose to do it with diet and excercise.
To the person who said 'why fight nature'...why arent you not fighting nature? I'm assuming that you are on this forum because you are into working out allowing your body to fight nature through lifting weights to increase the muscle that is otherwise not as 'inflated' and will, through time, get smaller and weaker.
What's happening here is some people are attacking the means that others have chose to alter their bodies. Frankly, it's not up to any of us to say that someone who is getting implants is insecure and not conquering their insecurities.
And if you're wanting to argue that point and argue it objectively, you'd have to say the same about yourself, because you ARE altering the body that was given to you 'naturally' and you ARE fighting nature by wanting to stay strong and fit when 'naturally' the body becomes weaker-- because you want to be more attractive to yourself and others...
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Well, not EVERYONE on here is in it just to look better. There are a good amount of athletes that do it to help them in their sport (me, PB, jman, evo, etc.)
The same could be said about learning, right? The more we learn the more we alter our brain and field of knowledge...but that doesn't mean that we are insecure about what we know?
Honestly, I do think that ellective surgery is both (for the most part) a mix of insecurity and trying to look more attractive. The only reason surgeries should be done is medical. There are people dying of starvation (I think the world average is 24,000 a day) and then there are people who "don't like" the way their boobs are too small, or the way their nose looks, etc. and get surgery for thousands of dollars while over 1/6th the world population lives on less than a dollar a day. Sure, they have the money, they can spend it how they want. Doesn't make it right though...but who am I to judge, right?
The same could be said about learning, right? The more we learn the more we alter our brain and field of knowledge...but that doesn't mean that we are insecure about what we know?
Honestly, I do think that ellective surgery is both (for the most part) a mix of insecurity and trying to look more attractive. The only reason surgeries should be done is medical. There are people dying of starvation (I think the world average is 24,000 a day) and then there are people who "don't like" the way their boobs are too small, or the way their nose looks, etc. and get surgery for thousands of dollars while over 1/6th the world population lives on less than a dollar a day. Sure, they have the money, they can spend it how they want. Doesn't make it right though...but who am I to judge, right?
Well doesn't make it wrong either...wrong for some right for others.
I loathe judgement. Put it this way, I don't belive that there is a need for marriage for me but I don't judge the people who are married, want to be married, feel a need to someday get married, have religious beliefs about marriage etc. etc. We all have our reasons for our beliefs and when it comes to yourself there really isn't a right or wrong 'anything' so long as you are happy with your choices.
I have a hard time understanding people who believe others are wrong unless they think like them...that's my only point.
But, I'm really done with the subject...it's so trivial and inconsequential...and I don't dislike anyone for their views or opinions and I hope it's the same for you guys
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Merciless, i can see your point and it is totally valid and important to think about. But, i'm not really going to get into the social responsibility of the western world in this posting even though i appreciate your insight. I'll save that for another thread...
but, in my opinion, security and high self esteem don't mean that you love every part of yourself and that you wouldn't ever want to change a thing about your body or face. i personally don't know anyone who is 100% secure and loving every part of themselves so that they think they are perfect. security just means that you are self aware, stable and that you are happy and/or continually striving to be happy. the difference could be that an insecure person generally isn't really aware of their insecurities and might blame society/media/other people for their feelings of inadequacy or tend to not know how to deal with it.
here's my point: let's say a woman who is small in stature is born with really really big breasts and while she is confident and secure, she feels like her body is really out of proportion and that there is too much attention drawn to that particular part of her body. it makes her self conscious about her breasts because they are quite prominent and she feels like they are a distraction from her face and her person. it also affects her feelings about her own femininity. there are two scenarios: she can live with it or she can have a breast reduction. let's say she has the reduction. in the process, she takes a long time to do research and become educated on costs/risks/benefits of breast reduction. she saves her money and finds a reputable surgeon. she thinks to herself that surgery will help her become more proportionate so that she can spend less money on customized bras and also so that she can shop for shirts and bras that fit in stores like the Gap and Target, something that she hasn't been able to do since "the change." she also thinks that it'll help her feel more comfortable in her daily interactions. she doesn't think that it'll change the person that she is or boost her self esteem so much that she can quit her job and become a supermodel. she's doing it to literally decrease her breast size and for the boost in the quality of her life. so, she has a breast reduction.
is this a problem? (i purposefully left out all the physical issues related to large breasts)
but, in my opinion, security and high self esteem don't mean that you love every part of yourself and that you wouldn't ever want to change a thing about your body or face. i personally don't know anyone who is 100% secure and loving every part of themselves so that they think they are perfect. security just means that you are self aware, stable and that you are happy and/or continually striving to be happy. the difference could be that an insecure person generally isn't really aware of their insecurities and might blame society/media/other people for their feelings of inadequacy or tend to not know how to deal with it.
here's my point: let's say a woman who is small in stature is born with really really big breasts and while she is confident and secure, she feels like her body is really out of proportion and that there is too much attention drawn to that particular part of her body. it makes her self conscious about her breasts because they are quite prominent and she feels like they are a distraction from her face and her person. it also affects her feelings about her own femininity. there are two scenarios: she can live with it or she can have a breast reduction. let's say she has the reduction. in the process, she takes a long time to do research and become educated on costs/risks/benefits of breast reduction. she saves her money and finds a reputable surgeon. she thinks to herself that surgery will help her become more proportionate so that she can spend less money on customized bras and also so that she can shop for shirts and bras that fit in stores like the Gap and Target, something that she hasn't been able to do since "the change." she also thinks that it'll help her feel more comfortable in her daily interactions. she doesn't think that it'll change the person that she is or boost her self esteem so much that she can quit her job and become a supermodel. she's doing it to literally decrease her breast size and for the boost in the quality of her life. so, she has a breast reduction.
is this a problem? (i purposefully left out all the physical issues related to large breasts)