Binge Eaters Anonymous

Hi Annie!!

Ever since I could remember, at least for ten years, I have been completely unhappy with myself and weight. I always look at myself in the mirror and feel worthless, ugly, fat, and all the negative thoughts that go along with that 3 years ago, I had a eating disorder where it left my thin and extremely not myself. It lastest about 8 months, and then I went to the ther side of the spectrum where I finally didn't care what I was eating....and I would wait until my family went to bed and eat so much food that I was too full to bend over or sit down. I loved when people weren't going to be home because I knew that meant I could binge or I would be driving home from work and thinking about all the food i'd eat. I consider myself a binge eater, and to this day I go in stages where I'll go a week eating great, and then it only takes 1 day to get back at binge eating. You're not alone, and I know that writing about how you are feeling and what you eat is a huge help along with having someone in the same boat. I am willing to help you through weight loss if you need somebody because I know how you are feeling...it's an awful feeling that takes over your life. Let me know. I'll be here :)

Keep your head up and hang in there!

Sarah
 
I've read that book! Its good, Bill Bryson is an amazing writer. I find reading quite difficult because I always like to eat while I read haha. I'm finding playing online games good because its giving me something to do with my hands. I'm good at sewing so i'm thinking of taking up Knitting, maybe that would be a good idea for you to? keeping busy and occupided I think is the key. Meditation is definitly a good idea, I was doing pilates today which really calmed me down haha.
I did knitting for a while, I still have all the stuff, but I just get so damn anxious and restless that I really need something more engaging.
I used to play Spore to keep busy, but I got a new computer with Vista and the damn thing won't play the game. :(
What I'm finding difficult is the "all or nothing" mentality, I mean I'm sure if I start a packet of cookies, I will finish them off, and probably another, so isn't it better to just not eat them at all if I don't trust myself?
Anyway good luck with tomorrow Annie, i'm sure you'll be wonderful :)
I know EXACTLY what you mean. I had some ice cream today, thinking I could keep it to just a treat... I ended up finishing the container. It was only half full, but it was seriously like 7-10 scoops. I didn't count.

You're not alone, and I know that writing about how you are feeling and what you eat is a huge help along with having someone in the same boat. I am willing to help you through weight loss if you need somebody because I know how you are feeling...it's an awful feeling that takes over your life. Let me know. I'll be here :)

Keep your head up and hang in there!

Sarah
Thanks! :) I can't tell you how good that makes me feel.
-------------------------------------------------------


Okay, so meditation didn't work. I'm not good at getting my own food, apparently. I went for breakfast with my mom, and I got a chocolate chip waffle. OH. MY. GOD. Wow. It was friggin amazing.
Then I got home and waited a bit for lunch... I started off with a canadian bacon and provolone cheese sandwich on a sandwich thin. I had a snack stack of sour cream and onion pringles. And then it all went to hell. I finished off a bag of wavy lays (about 1/4 bag), and a few mouthfuls of whipped cream, and then I realized there was half a tub of vanilla ice cream left in the freezer. So I had that, and I found my twix bar I bought yesterday but forgot... now I'm sitting here, kind of like, What the hell just happened?

I don't know how to stop my binge eating. I have no idea what brings it on.
I have literally no control over my emotions, but I never have, so I don't actually feel like I feel them. I don't make emotional memories very well because emotions have always been so unreliable that my brain just kind of says, Where the hell does this memory go?. So it just tucks it somewhere deep in my brain, and I never think of it again. In essence, I've had to detach from my feelings because they got so intense that I couldn't handle feeling them. I'm disconnected from emotions, so I have no IDEA how I feel when I start to binge... and there's no way for me to stop and say to myself, what are you doing? What emotion are you feeling right now? because I can't tell when I'm going to start. My mind kind of sits back and watches as my body tries to fill some unknown void.


I don't know how to say it... I look back on my whole life and I remember almost nothing. I remember in the senses, if it's hot and muggy and we get in the car, it reminds me of the beach, if I smell musty fabric, I remember my great grand dad's old house in mount hope... but I can't remember without the reminder of that sense. And when I do remember something, I don't remember exact happenings, I remember feelings and smells and tactile textures. My life feels devoid of feeling, but I do feel, because I know I do. I love my parents, I love my cats, I love my family... but it seems so flat and one-dimensional to me. It basically sucks. I don't remember very basic facts, like what states are where, road names and routes I've taken since I was a baby, which light switch is which, and even the multiplication tables. I feel ridiculously childish all of the time. I'm 18 and I can't drive. All my friends are going away to college to live on their own and grow up. I'm not. I'm going to community college and living at home. I feel like I should know how to do these things, I should know how to get to the movie theater, I should know how to get to my friend's house. But I couldn't even tell you directions to my house from across town, and I've lived in the same house, same town, for my whole life. You see? I know I feel things because when I start writing, they all come out, but I feel so detached, like I'm on autopilot and my brain went to do something else.

My dad also told me something very interesting about meditation if you have either a psychotic disorder, which I do (I hear voices) or a mood disorder (which I have too- bipolar disorder)*. He said that I should be very careful when I meditate, because it can be really easy to open the door to being focused on those problems, which exacerbates them.


-------------------------------------------------
*To be correct, I must say I have schizoaffective disorder, bipolar type, which is a disorder in which the patient hallucinates consistently while having a bipolar mood disturbance. The hallucinations must continue even when the mood disturbance is not present.
:)
I did my research. I wrote my final paper on schizoaffective disorder last semester for english. ... and it's kind of my life.
 
Annie, the smell receptor in your mind is very close infact almost next to a memory gland within your mind, which is why smells trigger the most powerful memories to us. If something happened within your childhood that you've forgotten, if you remember a smell from that point, its more likely to trigger the memory then any other sense. Proust has written a piece on this after an experiment he conducted. It could be something for you to experiment with?

I've also been reading alot about binge eating, and almost every piece is telling me that I'm over eating to ease some emotion. I don't believe this, I think i'm doing it because I'm bored, and its a habit. I know when I first began binge eating it was because I was lonely and bored. Its a quite a few years on from that (I was thirteen) and since then I've suffered from depression, and I didn't turn to food then, I turned to self harm instead, I just wasn't interested in food, especialy since food is something that makes me very happy. I saw a therapist for a long time, food just didn't bother me at that time, we never dicussed it or why I would behave like this. So theres got to be something else to it.

Also I'm twenty and I don't drive :) I don't think I have the co-ordination, and I don't have the money to learn. Here in Britain I know quite a few people in my class from college who stayed at home to study, I also know a girl from Michigan who is my age and hasn't been able to get to college at all. You should feel positive about what you are doing with your live instead of what you are not doing.
You could try playing chess on vista? Its quite a good contestant or find another game?
Or you could find an exercise DVD? then take your mind off eating by doing exercise.
I also think your father is right, I think you just need something to occupy your self with :) maybe a mantra?

Sarah I have felt exactly the same way you have waiting for people to be gone so I could have something to eat :( I hope you are feeling better now.
 
hey lillyofthevalley,

i have to commend you for starting this thread...i think it's much needed and in my case very timely :( i've just come out of a 3 week binge-fest...and 11 pounds heavier! i'm looking back at the 3 weeks and wondering where they went and looking at the scale and wondering what the f*ck just happened...when i binge it's almost like a switch in my brain is turned off and a food switch turned on and i go into a daze where i just eat eat and then eat some more.

i feel so ashamed and so mad at myself. i started my lifestyle change in february and was off to a fantastic start eating right and exercising regularly, thereafter things started to slow down but i was still making progress which was a hell of alot better than nothing. since feb i lost 37pounds....but after my binge fest have now gained back 11pounds. all i'm wondering is how did i let this happen? i don't know why we do this to ourselves. i've said it before and i'll say it again, food is my drug....when i eat mindlessly it's like my brain just goes numb, and all i want to do then is just watch tv and eat some more. i think it's a form of escapism, i can runaway from the real world and not have to deal with real issues or emotions.

bingeing has been my life for 29yrs, up untill i made my lifestyle change this february and i've been doing pretty great since, but these past 3 weeks scared me it reminded me that food is my drug and i am indeed an addict. at some point i was doing really well and thought i could do it on my own but after this bingefest i'm almost certain i can't do it on my own

as of yesterday i'm back on my feet again eating healthy and exercising but i'm DEAD SCARED that i'll binge again...i recently saw a signboard pointing to the govt run local eating disorders support group. at the time i saw it i thought to myself i'm doing so great and didn't even give it a second thought. but now i'm not so sure anymore, i KNOW i have a problem and now KNOW that it will be a problem for life.

for now my steps are too clean up my act of which i started this monday...i need to do some serious self evaluation, i can't keep sabotaging my life this way, it's almost as if somewhere deep inside of me i want to stay obese because that's all i've known all my life, it's my comfort zone...i just need to fight that part of me which clearly wants me to stay unhappy...i too want a life, i too want a boyfriend, i too want to be happy and live life to the fullest. at some point i have to tell myself enough is enough!
 
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as of yesterday i'm back on my feet again eating healthy and exercising but i'm DEAD SCARED that i'll binge again

i need to do some serious self evaluation, i can't keep sabotaging my life this way

Hi hi everyone. I'm so glad this thread is here. I have a problem with binge eating too.
A lot of what you said resonates with me CherryGarcia! It's so sad that one can
associate food with fear. Sometimes I'm shocked that one of the things that humans need
to keep themselves alive can cause so much anxiety and pain. It's horrible that so many
of us live in a vicious cycle where food is the comforter and enemy at the same time.

What really gets to me is how I can't seem to leave an open packet of whatever alone.
I can't buy a 250gram bar of chocolate and only eat 1/4. It's like I feel the need to eat
the whole damn thing.
Same with a large bag of crisps. Have to wolf it all down. It comes down to control
really. And I most definitely don't have it.

The worst place I've ever been in was when was having a binge session and went through
everything I had in my room in my college dorm. I eventually snuck into my best friend's
room while she was in the shower and stole food out of her cupboard to stuff myself with.
It was such low point when I realised that I had become a petty thief in order to keep filling that void.
I replaced what I ate and have vowed to mend my BE ways!
 
MakeMeHappy, I hope that you are succesful in your efforts :)
I've had a bad week, I've messed up all my good work i've put my weight back on by eating bad foods. I was doing well before and I'm not even trying to control it now :( I feel like i've lost my willpower.
It just feels like its harder for people who are addicted to food, if your addicted to narcotics or alcohol you can just give them up cold turkey, and although it isn't easy at least they don't have to face it everyday, because your right Cherry Garcia it is just like a drug :(
Has anyone got any good advice for me? I'm sorry to ask but i'm feeling a little fed up :(
 
Well, I'm at the beach... and eating like crap. I know, I know, a lot of people would say that I have a license to eat what I want and make myself happy for the week, but eating nowadays doesn't make me happy. It always makes me feel depressed and ashamed that I'd rather stay up in the room and eat than go down and take a walk on the beach.... It doesn't feel normal. I know "normal" people eat maybe 1 waffle, drink some coffee, and head down to the waves. I, on the other hand, eat maybe 4 waffles, a muffin, 15 pieces of taffy, some potato chips ("because I need something salty" BS), then I have maybe 5-10 pieces of chocolate, some twizzlers, some mini pretzels, and THEN I go down to the beach... with some money so I can buy a frozen lemonade. And then, about 2 hours later, we head up for lunch, have a bowl of ramen, maybe a sandwich if no one notices, some cheese cubes, some tortilla chips, some potato chips, more taffy, maybe a waffle if everyone is on the balcony (but you know I can't have just one...) and then I act like I'm starving and complain about how hungry I am while munching on salty snacks until dinner.
I feel so disappointed and ashamed that I can't pull myself together. I've spent almost $20 on taffy alone. I caught sight of a glimmer of what I thought might be happening with me--- If I have a choice between 2 foods, I will invariably choose both. If there's three, then I have all three. I think I need to learn to love myself despite my body so I won't keep drowning emotions- that I don't feel like I feel- in food. Maybe then I could stop hurting myself with indulgence.
I feel... zoned out when I'm eating. I can set out 5 pieces of candy to eat, and 20 minutes later, I've eaten half the bag. I don't even remember making a conscious decision to reach into the bag, though I know at some level I must have, because I picked the bag clean of 1 flavor. It's so frustrating, because I feel like I have no control over it. It just kind of happens, and I feel like I'm just along for the ride.:(


MakeMeHappy, I hope that you are succesful in your efforts :)
I've had a bad week, I've messed up all my good work i've put my weight back on by eating bad foods. I was doing well before and I'm not even trying to control it now :( I feel like i've lost my willpower.
It just feels like its harder for people who are addicted to food, if your addicted to narcotics or alcohol you can just give them up cold turkey, and although it isn't easy at least they don't have to face it everyday, because your right Cherry Garcia it is just like a drug :(
Has anyone got any good advice for me? I'm sorry to ask but i'm feeling a little fed up :(

I of all people can't really give advice, I can't even remember how I started losing weight in the first place. I can't recall that feeling of being in control, of pride when I could pass over the chocolates and chips. :(
If anyone has any sort of experience, feel free to throw some tidbits our way.

:(
 
yeah, I used to binge eat..did it for years. Then one day I realized that I'm better than this, and I haven't binged or purged since. No one deserves to have an eating disorder, you just have to find your way out of it. I got out of it without therapy (I always read it was pretty much impossible to get out of an ED without therapy-this is bullshit and don't listen to that). Realize that life isn't about being a certain size, I think it's much more beautiful to have some meat on your bones, I realize that now. All the guys I know, like more average, even chubby girls. Everyone is going to have their preferance, don't compare yourself to anybody. Put a smile on your face, get out and enjoy life and you'll meet some amazing people who like to do the same and appreciate you for you. Good luck :)
 
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I wanted to also add, I am looking forward to the biggest loser starting again. I love that show. Just need to not snack while I watch, lol. someone said my posting was spammimg?? I geuss I should just read for a while first since I am new. IDK, I feel dumb now. I hope you didn't mind me posting here
 
yes sally, leaving links in your posts....ESPECIALLY leaving the SAME link in your posts IS spamming on this forum and does result in members being banned. If you want to be a part of the community, the spamming has to stop.
 
Hello!

Sorry to hear about all of you suffering from Binge eating disorder. Having an eating disorder can definitely ruin your life. I have some advice! Let me start by saying that I'm not a "doctor". However, when it comes to this topic, I feel like I am more educated than a doctor because your average doctor has no idea what this feels like unless they have lived through it.

I'm the minority here; a male that recovered from eating disorders. I don't mind talking about it at all, because I've survived this hellish lifestyle and I'm proud to say that I made it out alive. Although it took several incredibly painful years of trial and error, I finally found a way to "cure" my eating disorder issue (binge, anorexia, bulimia), and I'd like to share it with you in the hopes that it might help somebody.

The best advice I can give is to tell you to start a journal, right now. Write down what happens during the day, and how you are feeling before/during/after binges. If you're lazy, you don't have to write in it everyday; that's fine. Over time, when you get an urge to binge, take a look back in the journal. You will read how miserable you were in the past. One day while you're reading, something will "click" in your head and you will stop and really evaluate your life.

You will start wondering things like:

-Why am I doing this to myself?
-I'm not hungry, so why am I hoarding all this food?
-Why do I eat in secrecy?
-Why do I live like this?
-What was life like before I starting thinking about food 24 hours a day?

In my experience, that "click" was when the changes started happening, and I began to win the war. I didn't want to live like the old journal version of myself anymore. I realized that there is way more to life than food.

Anyways, I tried to keep this post short ~ guess I failed! Always willing to help anyone suffering from an eating disorder in any way that I can. Feel free to message me if you want to talk about it.

Mike


Problem here is I KNOW why I do it;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

( I don't know how to quote myself from an older post)

I have Borderline Personality Disorder, and have a bunch of things that I am dealing with. Binging only being one small part, that of course leads to something much larger..

I dissociate and I also believe that is what a lot of other binger's do as well.

I am no longer on medications as they made me much more depressed. I am a complusive eater as well as *used* to be a Starver.

I guess I just wanted to share why I binge. I finally came to another conclusion for myself, & hopefully it will help me process the emotions better, when the next time comes around.

No Particular Order:

When Bingeing, food never tastes great, because it is out of punishment, or great sadness, the food doesn't have much of a taste. It feels wrong when doing so, it makes me feel sick to my stomach, it is unwanted.

1) to be closer to my mother, food cannot bring me closer to her, no matter how much I stuff my face with foods that her and I used to bond with. It does not fill a void.

2) when I feel defeated, a lot of times this happens secretly, because someone has said something that has pushed my buttons. BUT *words* shouldn't control all of my hard work that I've put in. Most of the time, they don't even know what they're talking about or joking.

3) An older form of my bingeing, *Punishment* I don't need to punish myself with food any longer. I am not an evil or bad person. I need to start knowing that I am worthy of having opinions & worthy of treating myself well.

4) I've over restricted myself from the foods I love and have enjoyed in the past, when I finally get to have some, I feel like it is the last time in a long while I will get to have any again, so I freak out and eat as much as I possibly can as quickly as I can.

5) Also a form of self-sabotaging. Something's come up and so I try to not go down the same road as always & even voice it, and yet I end up doing it to prove that I cannot. YIKES those times are scary. :(

I am just trying to get a better perspective handle on my bad habits/behaviors. It's not about just doing it for me it's about working through it.

Thanks for the thread LilyoftheValley, this may be very helpful for me. :)
 
I had a "click" moment in therapy yesterday. I dug through the roots of my feelings, when things happened and how... and I remembered an event kept stuffed deep inside of me, longing to be forgotten but never letting go of being remembered. I suppose I knew it all along, I remembered in a distant way, in a way that made it seem like it didn't happen... like maybe it was only a dream. I could sincerely pray that it was, that I'm just making this all up and it's only an overactive imagination. I don't know how many times I've written about this in the past 2 days. I have to keep writing so maybe I can feel it instead of tucking it away. I can't take the time to punctuate, to separate paragraphs and sentences, because it's such a frantic thought in my head... If I stop I'll be left alone with a silence I can never be comfortable with. A silence that runs so deep, so still, that it removes all feelings and replaces it with numbness and empty thought.

I feel so much shame when I remember, so much self doubt and self hatred. I feel so alone, in need of reassurance that I am not, in fact, crazy. At 13, I was sexually assaulted... long distance. It started with a chat room, then instant messaging, then phone. A great mass was lowered onto my shoulders that day. I buried what happened, and thought it didn't affect me. I thought the lack of self esteem and the feeling that I could never be truly loved was a side effect of being bipolar. It was normal, I told myself. Every time I ate I stuffed down my feelings, my shame. My fat was a barrier to everyone. I was sure no one could possibly love a tub of lard like me. When the weight came off, at first, I was happy. I was pleased with myself that I could master my willpower. As the weight dropped, I began to feel like maybe I could be attractive again. I was happy, excited even, to buy new clothes and outfits and be flirted with by waiters. My subconscious must have seen this. It slowly started me in a vicious cycle of self sabotage.

I never thought it would impact me so hard, it seemed to me like it was just a past event that I would just get over and forget. I had no idea the hatred it would breed in me, the denial and the doubt.

I just "remembered" this... when in reality, I knew all along, I just had no idea.

:(
 
Relief

I just finished a binge session and that feeling of guilt overcame me.... again. This is not the first session I have had... but one of the many that I have been battling since my freshman year of college... about 6 years ago. I am now desperate and need some guidance. Fortunately, I have a very small frame and figure, always have. My freshman year of college I weighed 100 pounds. Within 3 months I weighed 130 due to all of the overeatting. I then got back down to 110... and now I am going up again. I am not complaining about my weight... just my problem.

I know what many of you are thinking. "Why is she worried about a couple of pounds?" "Oh, she needs to quit it because she is already skinny and actually needs to gain a few pounds." "Here we go again.. another anorexic."

I have heard these sayings all of my life... and that is why I am tired of still hearing it. Yes, I know it could be worse... but I have a problem and tonight I finally realized that I need to overcome it. The feelings of guilt that I take on when I down food hour after hour are unbelievable. There are even times when I feel the need to throw up because I have no more room in my stomach to eat anything else. Once I have done that.. I go back for more.

I hate it. I hate this. I am so relieved to see that others are trying to overcome the same evil I am.

I have read all of the entries within this thread and they give me hope. But when it comes down to it, it is about respecting my self,my body, and my well being. I don't know where to start. Like many of you said, though research says that we are trying to "fill a void" per say, I don't really agree with that. I have an AMAZING life. I have family who loves and supports me, a wonderful boyfriend/best friend, and the best job in the world. There are no voids to be filled. I could not ask for more. Unfortunately, no one knows how extreme my battle is because I too, hide my eatting habits and so forth.

Any words of encouragement would help greatly right now... I don't know what to do anymore.

Whew.... I am through now!
 
no one on this forum is going to judge you b/c your smaller than most of us. your weight fluctuating 30 pds or so isnt' any less unhealthy for you as it is for someone already big. I hope you find a way to deal with your yo yoing. Maybe you need to look at a lifestyle change. A way of eating that you'll do forever, as opposed to being on a diet and off a diet.

there is no magic pill or solution to weight loss....it takes time and commitment. Stay consistent and you'll get there. I'm sorry I can't suggest anything more for you than that. Stay with us though and we'll keep you focused!
 
Reading these entries almost brings tears to my eyes. It makes me so sad to know that other people have that same feeling of helplessness that I do, but I am very happy to know that we can talk about it here without being judged, or like we are the only ones going through it.
 
Reading these entries almost brings tears to my eyes. It makes me so sad to know that other people have that same feeling of helplessness that I do, but I am very happy to know that we can talk about it here without being judged, or like we are the only ones going through it.


It is nice to let it out without the feeling of judgement to worry about!
 
I just finished a binge session and that feeling of guilt overcame me.... again. This is not the first session I have had... but one of the many that I have been battling since my freshman year of college... about 6 years ago. I am now desperate and need some guidance. Fortunately, I have a very small frame and figure, always have. My freshman year of college I weighed 100 pounds. Within 3 months I weighed 130 due to all of the overeatting. I then got back down to 110... and now I am going up again. I am not complaining about my weight... just my problem.

I know what many of you are thinking. "Why is she worried about a couple of pounds?" "Oh, she needs to quit it because she is already skinny and actually needs to gain a few pounds." "Here we go again.. another anorexic."

I have heard these sayings all of my life... and that is why I am tired of still hearing it. Yes, I know it could be worse... but I have a problem and tonight I finally realized that I need to overcome it. The feelings of guilt that I take on when I down food hour after hour are unbelievable. There are even times when I feel the need to throw up because I have no more room in my stomach to eat anything else. Once I have done that.. I go back for more.

I hate it. I hate this. I am so relieved to see that others are trying to overcome the same evil I am.

I have read all of the entries within this thread and they give me hope. But when it comes down to it, it is about respecting my self,my body, and my well being. I don't know where to start. Like many of you said, though research says that we are trying to "fill a void" per say, I don't really agree with that. I have an AMAZING life. I have family who loves and supports me, a wonderful boyfriend/best friend, and the best job in the world. There are no voids to be filled. I could not ask for more. Unfortunately, no one knows how extreme my battle is because I too, hide my eatting habits and so forth.

Any words of encouragement would help greatly right now... I don't know what to do anymore.

Whew.... I am through now!

Hello mnm,

Just Some Questions to Ask Yourself: (may or may not) :)

Respecting yourself is kind of a big one. It's kind of like saying you don't love who you truly are...that's a void. Just another form.

It can be very difficult when you think you have everything you need and still feel as though you don't?

How would you like to start respecting yourself? (other than not binging), sounds if though it were a form of punishment for you? I may be wrong..

What do you want specifically for you? Do you have enough you time? Are you achieving what YOU need? Do you take time out of your busy life for YOURSELF? What do YOU feel like?

Other than all the Glam you have from your job/family/boyfriend, when you're alone with yourself, what do you feel?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyways if it truly is none of that, you're definitely in the right direction, you know you have a problem and you want to figure it out and over come it.

Congrats to you! That is a HUGE step. Most don't know they have anything wrong, and they just hit repeat their whole lives. :svengo:

You can beat this yet! ;) Just hang in there.

Lot's O Love, Take Care :beating:
 
Im also a binge eater. It's hard to get people to realize what you are going through. My mom although very support of me, doesnt understand why I can't just ignore my cravings.

We never have any junk food in the house, so I always go buy it. I fight with myself for hours until I finally go to the store and buy what I want/need to make the feeling go away. I have several different stores I go to because it is very embarrassing especially when I know what they are thinking. I just can't stop . . . no matter how hard I try.
 
Hi, I am a newbie. I am not sure how to join your club? You are not alone!

Binging is my biggest problem, actually my only weight problem.

Nice to meat you all.

Margaret
 
ditto about binging, but I'm reading a book called Shrink Yourself that seems to help. it pisses me off when I read it though, because I don't like to think I'm working so hard against myself.
 
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