Alligatorob's Diary

[alligatorob]

Yesterday was a marginal day... I did not eat well at dinner, but I am not sure I'd call it a binge. Otherwise all went well.

i have to think it is based on the type of joint. hips are ball and socket while knees are hinge joints. the rehab of that hinge joint is based on getting the full range of motion from fully "closed" to fully "open".

That makes sense.

i probably have said it before, but i was so glad i went with the physical therapy for my knee as i don't think i would ever have flexed the joint as far as they did. i thought i would have snapped the tendons, but when it was over, my doctor was very pleased at the range of motion i wound up with.

I agree, I think the physical therapy was essential for recovery of my knees. It was painful, but yours sounds worse. Knee recovery is always painful.

i'm sort of hoping the ball and socket joint of my upcoming shoulder replacement will be more like the hip, though the shoulder seems to be a mix of the two.

My physical therapist tells me that shoulders can be as painful as knees, for your sake I hope she is wrong... I have been lucky with my shoulders. I've had problems with both but so far I have been able to manage it with physical therapy and exercise, fingers crossed.

i do hope i will be able to add swimming back to my overall exercise routine. not looking to break any records, but even moderate swimming is something i have missed for a few years now.

Swimming is good exercise, low impact too. Since my knee surgery I have noticed that I am a bit less buoyant. The dr tells me I have about 4 pounds of metal, cement, and plastic; that seems to weight me down. Have you noticed that?

 

[Cate]

Hi, Rob. How are you coping with eating more than maybe you think you should? Does it feel weird or are you getting used to it? I think you will feel better about it with time. It's hard to shed our habits. I know it is for me. Anyhow I was just thinking about you on a warm, Sunday afternoon in Tassie & I just thought I would let you know that.

 

[alligatorob]

Ate well yesterday, exercised and this morning is good.

Hi, Rob. How are you coping with eating more than maybe you think you should? Does it feel weird or are you getting used to it? I think you will feel better about it with time. It's hard to shed our habits. I know it is for me. Anyhow I was just thinking about you on a warm, Sunday afternoon in Tassie & I just thought I would let you know that.

Thanks Cate, always nice to know someone is thinking of me.

I am adapting to the new diet with mixed results. The big thing is that I have managed to avoid bingeing. However I still have the urges, yesterday was particularly hard. Realistically I did not expect the urges to go away, just to be more manageable, so guess I can't complain. Although it is a bit hard to let go of not losing weight or weighing... All in all I think so far so good. Thanks for asking.

 

[Llama]

One advantage of eating more - that's hard for my brain to deal with even though I objectively think it's a good thing - is that there's no voice in the back of my head telling me I have a bit of leeway anyway so I might as well have "some" sweet treats. Because some always ends up being way too much.

 

[Cate]

So far, so good sounds good to me. Even though the urges are still there you have resisted. Well done, Rob!

 

[bensanon]

the urges

What happens with the urges, Rob? Do these come on after you eat? Before? With certain types of foods? Randomly throughout the day? After you’re active? How long after? The next day? Anything happening emotionally? Anything else that could be contributing up to 2-3 days before you have strong urges?

And when you binge, what happens? Are you just overpowered and you want relief with high calorie foods? What goes through your mind? You just don’t care? It doesn’t matter anyway? What’s the last thought that goes through your mind that allows the binge? Do you then get immediate relief and feel remorseful later?

 

[Llama]

Hey Rob, how are you? I hope you're just busy keeping your wife entertained and you're not hiding from us behind the cookie jar. If you are: please don't feel embarrassed but write down what you can remember and come back. We all have setbacks.

 

[bensanon]

Hey Rob, how ya doing?

I’ve got some OA language for you… this “disease” thrives in isolation, so comeback and post, at least. I would recommend OA so you have more support and can connect with other people who know exactly what you’re experiencing. They have a saying to “take what works and leave the rest” which is what I go by. I don’t follow half of the suggestions but just listening to other people’s experiences can be pretty eye opening.

 

[alligatorob]

Well, I fell off the wagon, binged for a couple of days... don't feel good about it. I don't really know why, it began with a power outage, not really sure that triggered it, but it was an excuse... Today was a better day, I ate well and exercised, so I guess I am back on. One day in a row anyway.

Got my cider finished and bottled today. Only got 22 liters, less than I expected. It was not a real efficient process. That's the end of the frozen peach juice, so no more fermenting or distilling until next year. All I got to do is figure out what to do with all of it. In addition to the cider we have about 50 liters of wine, and 35 liters of brandy. We can't drink even 10% of that... but it is surprisingly easy to give away.

One advantage of eating more - that's hard for my brain to deal with even though I objectively think it's a good thing - is that there's no voice in the back of my head telling me I have a bit of leeway anyway so I might as well have "some" sweet treats. Because some always ends up being way too much.

Yeah, I have not weighed, but I suspect I gained a bit and as you say had no "leeway". And for me some almost always leads to too many...

So far, so good sounds good to me. Even though the urges are still there you have resisted. Well done, Rob!

Thanks Cate, but it didn't last

What happens with the urges, Rob? Do these come on after you eat? Before?

Can come anytime, but the worst is probably when I have just finished eating.

With certain types of foods?

No, anything can do it. Even very healthy foods.

Randomly throughout the day?

Yep, but more often later in the day, but not always.

After you’re active?

No, being active seems to help control them.

Anything happening emotionally? Anything else that could be contributing up to 2-3 days before you have strong urges?

No, I don't see an emotional connection. And can't see anything leading up to them, just happen, all too often.

And when you binge, what happens? Are you just overpowered and you want relief with high calorie foods? What goes through your mind? You just don’t care? It doesn’t matter anyway? What’s the last thought that goes through your mind that allows the binge? Do you then get immediate relief and feel remorseful later?

That's a hard one, but once I give in it is very hard to stop. All rationality seems to slip away. I do get some relief or feeling of a high when eating, but it goes away quickly when I stop. That makes me go on eating. I always feel remorseful afterwards, usually pretty quickly.

I’ve got some OA language for you… this “disease” thrives in isolation, so comeback and post, at least. I would recommend OA so you have more support and can connect with other people who know exactly what you’re experiencing. They have a saying to “take what works and leave the rest” which is what I go by. I don’t follow half of the suggestions but just listening to other people’s experiences can be pretty eye opening.

That isolation thing really is true. I find posting here helps, though I really don't want to when I am bingeing...

 

[Llama]

That's a hard one, but once I give in it is very hard to stop. All rationality seems to slip away. I do get some relief or feeling of a high when eating, but it goes away quickly when I stop. That makes me go on eating. I always feel remorseful afterwards, usually pretty quickly.

For me that's often why I binge after a binge: to not have to deal with the reality and disappointment of having binged yet.

I find posting here helps, though I really don't want to when I am bingeing...

Know that one too... And what it tells me (about me, which doesn't mean it has to be true for you) is that I don't want to stop binging yet. I know everyone is going to be nice about it here and it makes me feel like SUCH a fraud. So I skip posting, or only post in other people's diaries for a while, and keep eating.

However any of that may be: I'm glad you're here.

 

[bensanon]

Hey Rob, Good to see you back. Sorry to hear about the bingeing.

It is difficult to get more insight, Rob, especially since you don’t see an emotional connection. If I were to binge while I know I’m getting an adequate amount of food, there is definitely something happening emotionally. It’s usually a response to stress and bingeing provides a relief to that pain or at least numbs me to it or distracts me away from it. The solution for me is to let myself feel the pain, learn how to cope with it in healthier ways. Become more resilient to it over time.

It is difficult, right? People understand their experience in their own way and have come to that understanding through how they grew up and learned to operate in the world. It can be hard to understand their experience a different way or consider that it may be similar to others’. I think most experts say this is an emotional/behavioral condition. Your experience seems to be not at all different than my experience and what I see of other people in OA.

You could still be stressing your body too which is progressed and primed for bingeing. I see you hug the lower limit on your calories. I do believe you’re still not getting enough or relaxing enough to give your body breaks and not always try to be controlling the exact amount. You need daily variation. Go up to 2500 on some days. Be kinder and gentler to your body overall. In OA, you learn how to let go of the tight control and relax, and with other people and yourself. It’s a lot about relationships including the one you have with yourself. You eventually learn or start to realize to unwind, to relax, to back off the control. Not reach for something after any negative experience. You learn you’ll be ok or trust that you’ll be ok. You heal your emotional pain using the steps and that helps a lot of people relax more too, and let go of obsessing. Helps to drop any baggage you have. I believe that is the overall idea in OA. Initially, you have to tough it out for a long time (go through a kind of withdrawal) and work on letting go at the same time.

Just some thoughts, maybe helpful to you.

 

[alligatorob]

Back again, I binged Saturday, yesterday (Sunday) was better, higher calorie day but not a binge. Today, so far so good.

And when you binge, what happens? ... Do you then get immediate relief and feel remorseful later?

For me that's often why I binge after a binge: to not have to deal with the reality and disappointment of having binged yet.

I thought about this when and after bingeing on Saturday and kind of figured something out. I still don't know what first triggers a binge but after I start I get a kind of rush of positive feelings that end when I stop. So I don't stop, until either the food runs out or I get too stuffed to eat another bite. More often it is when the food runs out... I can eat a lot.

The binge on Saturday began with a couple of cookies, that were really probably ok to eat, but eating them made me feel a little guilty. So as irrational as it sounds I ate a few more, and it worked but only so long as I was eating. This process continued off and on all day. On Sunday I also had a couple of cookies, but was thinking about this and managed to fight off eating more. It wasn't an easy or fun process, it would have been much easier not to have eaten cookies in the first place. Cookies are not aways what starts this, eating a lot of most anything can.

Rob and Llama, it was your insights that helped me figure this one out, thanks for that. On a larger scale I knew I was doing something like this. Whenever I have had a successful weight loss diet I know that first binge is almost euphoric, but it makes me feel bad after the fact. So I keep bingeing and trying to recreate that first high. With some success, but each binge becomes progressively less a high, but causes me to feel bad, so I keep on trying. I know it's not quite this simple, but it is a pattern. Not sure what figuring this out will solve, but I always believe the more you know the better.

Know that one too... And what it tells me (about me, which doesn't mean it has to be true for you) is that I don't want to stop binging yet. I know everyone is going to be nice about it here and it makes me feel like SUCH a fraud. So I skip posting, or only post in other people's diaries for a while, and keep eating.

Not sure about the not wanting to stop thing, but I sure understand the fraud one.

However any of that may be: I'm glad you're here.

Probably not so much as I am glad you are here!

It is difficult to get more insight, Rob, especially since you don’t see an emotional connection. If I were to binge while I know I’m getting an adequate amount of food, there is definitely something happening emotionally. It’s usually a response to stress and bingeing provides a relief to that pain or at least numbs me to it or distracts me away from it. The solution for me is to let myself feel the pain, learn how to cope with it in healthier ways. Become more resilient to it over time.

I have thought about it a lot and other than what I described above I can't see an emotional connection. Feeling bad about having overeaten triggers the emotions, not the other way round so far as I can tell. I am pretty happy and satisfied most of the time, particularly when not bingeing...

It is difficult, right? People understand their experience in their own way and have come to that understanding through how they grew up and learned to operate in the world. It can be hard to understand their experience a different way or consider that it may be similar to others’. I think most experts say this is an emotional/behavioral condition. Your experience seems to be not at all different than my experience and what I see of other people in OA.

Yeah, figuring out why we do what we do can be really hard. Learning from others is the best way, but we are all at least a little different.

You could still be stressing your body too which is progressed and primed for bingeing. I see you hug the lower limit on your calories. I do believe you’re still not getting enough or relaxing enough to give your body breaks and not always try to be controlling the exact amount. You need daily variation. Go up to 2500 on some days. Be kinder and gentler to your body overall. In OA, you learn how to let go of the tight control and relax, and with other people and yourself. It’s a lot about relationships including the one you have with yourself. You eventually learn or start to realize to unwind, to relax, to back off the control. Not reach for something after any negative experience. You learn you’ll be ok or trust that you’ll be ok. You heal your emotional pain using the steps and that helps a lot of people relax more too, and let go of obsessing. Helps to drop any baggage you have. I believe that is the overall idea in OA. Initially, you have to tough it out for a long time (go through a kind of withdrawal) and work on letting go at the same time.

It seems to me that the more I eat the harder fighting off the urges becomes. That is why I am more comfortable when I "hug the lower limit" as you say. If I go to 2,500 calories the binge urges get stronger.

Just some thoughts, maybe helpful to you.

I do appreciate your thoughts, and have not given up on this approach. Despite having less success than I would like. After bingeing I am tempted to go back to the 1,200 calorie a day target, but so far have resisted. I have also cut back a bit on the exercise, gone from 3+ hours a day to 2+, on average. As I have said I don't push my workouts as hard and some, and to be honest I enjoy what I do. Cutting back further would not feel good.

I appreciate that you, and the others have not given up on me.

 

[Llama]

After bingeing I am tempted to go back to the 1,200 calorie a day target, but so far have resisted.

I'm glad you have. 2000 kcal a day may or may not be a little on the low side but it's something your brain and body can deal with as long as you eat some fiber and protein. 1200 isn't, even if it's easier psychologically. I hope it'll get a little easier for you over time.

 

[alligatorob]

Today was a good day, I ate well, exercised and feel good tonight.

I went for a short walk today, about 2.5 miles, 4 km. It is the first time I have walked the trail above here since my knee surgery. I felt the lack of walking a little, but I sure did appreciate my knees. I well remember all the places my knees used to hurt, particularly on the way down. I used to do a lot of zig zagging for my knees. All that is now gone, zero pain and not a zig or a zag! I need to start walking regularly, I stopped when I had the surgery and increased my gym time. I'm not sure that was the best, the weather isn't real walking weather, but on warmer days... Their was some snow on the trail, but not a lot, mostly mud.

I'm glad you have. 2000 kcal a day may or may not be a little on the low side but it's something your brain and body can deal with as long as you eat some fiber and protein. 1200 isn't, even if it's easier psychologically. I hope it'll get a little easier for you over time.

Thanks Llama, and I think you probably are right. What the right number is I am not sure, but its probably a lot closer to the 2,000 than 1,200.

it makes me feel like SUCH a fraud.

Still thinking about this one. Llama, you may be a lot of things, but you are no fraud!! You are open and honest about your eating, the good and the bad. And you are probably more willing than me to post when its bad. I know what we feel about ourselves is not always rational or controllable, but lady you are not a fraud, not even close.

 

[Cate]

Today was a good day, I ate well, exercised and feel good tonight.

Excellent

I went for a short walk today, about 2.5 miles, 4 km. It is the first time I have walked the trail above here since my knee surgery. I felt the lack of walking a little, but I sure did appreciate my knees. I well remember all the places my knees used to hurt, particularly on the way down. I used to do a lot of zig zagging for my knees. All that is now gone, zero pain and not a zig or a zag! I need to start walking regularly, I stopped when I had the surgery and increased my gym time. I'm not sure that was the best, the weather isn't real walking weather, but on warmer days...

That's good to hear, Rob! Maybe some more bike riding in the future too?

 

[Llama]

Thank you, my friend. Imposter syndrome runs deep with me. How wonderful to hear your walk went so well!

 

[bensanon]

Hey Rob, I’m going to be real. I think you don’t want to stop bingeing. I think you like the feeling and don’t want to change deep down and you’re caught in an addictive loop. Look at what you accomplished already with your weight loss. You can stop and you have the discipline. There’s no magic formula or recipe to follow. It’s a choice between the pain of self-discipline or living with the pain of bingeing. The ones in OA who stop overeating, they want to change. They change their beliefs about themselves, they change themselves from the inside. I think you’ve also thought your way into a corner. You’re trying to think your way out and you can’t. You have to act your way out. Also, you need to be in front of a group because you can’t get away with your type of thinking in a group setting. You need to be in front of other people who are struggling just like you and take direction from others who have lost 100s of pounds and kept them off. That’s when it gets real. What you’re doing here is comfortable. You’re trying to think your way out, and looking for a magic formula. Deep down you’re really not ready to let go of the bingeing. You can change and I’ve seen people change who really want it. There are not great things about OA, but for me it was much better that this process here and it takes so much more courage.

 

[Llama]

Hey Rob, I’m going to be real. I think you don’t want to stop bingeing. I think you like the feeling and don’t want to change deep down and you’re caught in an addictive loop. Look at what you accomplished already with your weight loss. You can stop and you have the discipline. There’s no magic formula or recipe to follow. It’s a choice between the pain of self-discipline or living with the pain of bingeing. The ones in OA who stop overeating, they want to change. They change their beliefs about themselves, they change themselves from the inside. I think you’ve also thought your way into a corner. You’re trying to think your way out and you can’t. You have to act your way out. Also, you need to be in front of a group because you can’t get away with your type of thinking in a group setting. You need to be in front of other people who are struggling just like you and take direction from others who have lost 100s of pounds and kept them off. That’s when it gets real. What you’re doing here is comfortable. You’re trying to think your way out, and looking for a magic formula. Deep down you’re really not ready to let go of the bingeing. You can change and I’ve seen people change who really want it. There are not great things about OA, but for me it was much better that this process here and it takes so much more courage.

Dude... you're starting to sound like an evangelist. Let the guy live and decide for himself: if you were correct and he does need OA he'd have to come to that conclusion himself. Piling on the pressure like that just makes me dislike the however-many-step-programs look worse to me.

 

[bensanon]

Dude... you're starting to sound like an evangelist. Let the guy live and decide for himself: if you were correct and he does need OA he'd have to come to that conclusion himself. Piling on the pressure like that just makes me dislike the however-many-step-programs look worse to me.

My impression is that Rob wanted to hear what I have to say. I’m not a representative of OA. I don’t even follow the program. It’s just my personal opinion Rob would benefit from some of the ideas.

@alligatorob Please let me know. I don’t want to bother you (or anyone). I’m not sure there’s any benefit to me posting here.

 

[Cate]

Hey, @alligatorob. How are you doing?