erschöpfung des ZNS
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"erschöpfung" des ZNS ?
hallo klaus,
etwas konkreter, bitte. wo hast du das gelesen und wie lautet der genaue wortlaut bzw. die textpassage? quelle? eine isolierte erschöpfung des ZNS ist mir nicht bekannt. eine wirkliche erschöpfung im medizinischen sinn ist ein komplexes geschehen mit angriff auf die autonom geschützten reserven und wäre ein lebensgefährlicher zustand.
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> ich hab die erfahrung gemacht,das ich mich, wenn ich sehr schwer und mit exzentrischen wh trainier,am anfang zwar recht schnell in bezug auf kraft steiger,aber bald gegen eine mauer lauf.hab jetzt gelesen,das hat mit "erschöpfung" des zns zu tun.ist da was dran???
> grüsse,klaus
hallo klaus,
etwas konkreter, bitte. wo hast du das gelesen und wie lautet der genaue wortlaut bzw. die textpassage? quelle? eine isolierte erschöpfung des ZNS ist mir nicht bekannt. eine wirkliche erschöpfung im medizinischen sinn ist ein komplexes geschehen mit angriff auf die autonom geschützten reserven und wäre ein lebensgefährlicher zustand.
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> ich hab die erfahrung gemacht,das ich mich, wenn ich sehr schwer und mit exzentrischen wh trainier,am anfang zwar recht schnell in bezug auf kraft steiger,aber bald gegen eine mauer lauf.hab jetzt gelesen,das hat mit "erschöpfung" des zns zu tun.ist da was dran???
> grüsse,klaus
Re: "erschöpfung" des ZNS ?
hatte am wochenende eine diskussion wegen kraft und hab mich danach schlau gemacht und mal geschaut,was sich beim powerlifting in letzter zeit in bezug auf training getan hat.dabei bin ich auf ein paar artikel von louie simmons und leuten die bei ihm trainieren gestossen.seine erfahrung als trainer steht ja ausser frage und sein training scheint sinn zu machen.die machen im prinzip folgendes:1x pro woche explosive wiederholungen mit 50-60%, 1x hypertrophietraining und 1x "max-effort"training.und dabei beschreibt er recht genau,wie es mir früher gegangen ist,nur hab ich auf übertraining der muskeln geschlossen.aber klingt plausibel,was im artikel steht,hätte einfach die übung wechseln sollen...
Maximum Effort Workouts
The Westside method is a Periodisation program known as Conjugated Periodisation. This simply put means that several abilities are coupled together throughout the training. The western method of periodisation separates these variables while this Westside method puts it all together at the same time. The entire Westside method is centered around three basic methods of strength development Maximal Effort, Dynamic Effort Method, and the Repetition Method.
The Maximal Effort method is considered by many coaches and athletes as being the superior method of strength development. It places great demands on both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination and well as stimulating the muscular and central nervous system. These demand force the body into greater adaptation. This adaptation is what is responsible for strength gains. When training using the max effort method the central nervous system inhibition is reduced, thus the maximal number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency (Zatsiorisky). The one draw back to using this method is that you cannot train with weights above 90 percent for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happen your strength will begin to diminish. This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind and knowing how good this method is in the development of strength development Westside set out to find away around this three-week barrier. The way to over come it is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to tree weeks. This keep the body fresh so the method can be used year round.
Max Effort Parameters
Load (Intensity) 90 to 100%
Number of Exercises 1
Repetitions 1-3
Rest Interval 2 to 5 minutes
Frequency / Week 1 (Squat Day) / 1(Bench Day)
Weeks per Exercise 1-3
So how do you use this method? The best way to utilize the max effort method is deciding on one main exercise that will be trained with this method. After a proper general warm up you proceed to this exercise and begin to warm up with the bar. Taking small weight increases you begin to work up in weight with sets of three reps. when three reps begins to feel heavy you drop down to single repetitions. This is when you begin to try to max out on the exercise. Keep increasing the weight until you have reached your one rep max. Make sure to keep track of what this record is because this is what you will try to beat next time out. A max effort exercise would look like this:
Exercise Sets Reps Weight
Floor Press 2 5 45
2 3 95
1 3 135
1 3 185
1 3 225
1 3 275
1 1 315
1 1 365
1 1 405
1 1 425
In the above example, 425 would represent the lifters one-rep max. This is the number that should be recorded to break on a later date. It is very important to only use this method with only one exercise per workout and no more than one time per week for each lift. The Westside method schedules one max effort day for the bench and one for the squat and dead lift as follows:
Monday: Max Effort Day for the Squat and Dead lift
Wednesday: Max Effort Day for the Bench Press
Since many of the same muscle are used for the squat and dead lift, they are trained on the same day. Actually very little dead lifting is performed with this style of training because of this reason.
The Max Effort Exercises should also be closely related to the squat, bench press and dead lift, and all should have a very high strength carry over value. These exercises include: Box Squats, Good Mornings, and Dead lift for the squat and dead lift days and Board, floor, Close Grip. Incline and Band Press for the Bench Press. These are just a sample list of over 1000 different max effort exercises that can be performed for max effort days. See index for complete list
The best max effort exercise for the squat and dead lift are Good Mornings, Low Box Squat and Dead lift. The good morning is probably the best overall exercise for strength development and should be utilized 70 percent of all Max effort days. There are several different types of Good Morning that can be performed. Good morning using a variety of different bars such as the safety squat bar, buffalo bar, and cambered bar are classics at Westside barbell. Many of these good mornings are performed suspended from chains. By suspending the bar from the power rack to perform the good morning (Anderson good mornings or suspended good mornings) you are creating the same specificity as when you dead lift. This is because you start the dead lift without any eccentric or lowering motion. This is also true when you have to squat under a suspended barbell and lift it to a standing position.
The best max effort exercises for the bench press are the Floor Press, Board Press, Close Grip Bench Press, JM Press, and Reverse Band Presses. All Pressing motions! As with the squat and dead lift max effort exercises, there are several variations of each movement. Each exercise has a specific function. For instance, the floor press takes your legs out of the motion so greater emphasis is placed on the pecs, delts and triceps. The close grip incline press takes your lats out of the motion so there is greater emphasis placed on the deltoids and triceps. The board press also take your lats out of the motion and provide you with the opportunity to train at specific points of the bench press.
The max effort meso cycle should only last 1 to 3 weeks with the later being for the novice and intermediate strength athlete. The more advanced the athlete the shorter the time spent per cycle or time spent per max effort exercise. This is due to the neuromuscular coordination and motor learning. The advanced athlete can call upon more motor unit activation (use more muscle) than the novice. For example the novice may use 40% of their total muscle while the advanced will be able to use 80%. The second reason is the neuromuscular and muscular coordination. The advanced lifter has always figured out and mastered how to do the movement. His body knows what to do and when. The novice athlete has not figured out how to do the movement and is far from mastering it. This will allow the novice to progress and break records for around three weeks on each max effort exercise. This however will not be the case for the advanced athlete. These athletes will have one good week where they break a record then will be unable to break it for the next two weeks. So the solution is simple, switch every week! This will allow you to break records each week and avoided overstraining. Max effort training by the way is a process of learning how to better synchronize the muscle involvement. This is because of the activation of the central nervous system as well as other factors such as motivation and concentration.
If you do not always break a record, don’t worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easily to the point you really didn’t strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.
Dave Tate cscs
hatte am wochenende eine diskussion wegen kraft und hab mich danach schlau gemacht und mal geschaut,was sich beim powerlifting in letzter zeit in bezug auf training getan hat.dabei bin ich auf ein paar artikel von louie simmons und leuten die bei ihm trainieren gestossen.seine erfahrung als trainer steht ja ausser frage und sein training scheint sinn zu machen.die machen im prinzip folgendes:1x pro woche explosive wiederholungen mit 50-60%, 1x hypertrophietraining und 1x "max-effort"training.und dabei beschreibt er recht genau,wie es mir früher gegangen ist,nur hab ich auf übertraining der muskeln geschlossen.aber klingt plausibel,was im artikel steht,hätte einfach die übung wechseln sollen...
Maximum Effort Workouts
The Westside method is a Periodisation program known as Conjugated Periodisation. This simply put means that several abilities are coupled together throughout the training. The western method of periodisation separates these variables while this Westside method puts it all together at the same time. The entire Westside method is centered around three basic methods of strength development Maximal Effort, Dynamic Effort Method, and the Repetition Method.
The Maximal Effort method is considered by many coaches and athletes as being the superior method of strength development. It places great demands on both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination and well as stimulating the muscular and central nervous system. These demand force the body into greater adaptation. This adaptation is what is responsible for strength gains. When training using the max effort method the central nervous system inhibition is reduced, thus the maximal number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency (Zatsiorisky). The one draw back to using this method is that you cannot train with weights above 90 percent for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happen your strength will begin to diminish. This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind and knowing how good this method is in the development of strength development Westside set out to find away around this three-week barrier. The way to over come it is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to tree weeks. This keep the body fresh so the method can be used year round.
Max Effort Parameters
Load (Intensity) 90 to 100%
Number of Exercises 1
Repetitions 1-3
Rest Interval 2 to 5 minutes
Frequency / Week 1 (Squat Day) / 1(Bench Day)
Weeks per Exercise 1-3
So how do you use this method? The best way to utilize the max effort method is deciding on one main exercise that will be trained with this method. After a proper general warm up you proceed to this exercise and begin to warm up with the bar. Taking small weight increases you begin to work up in weight with sets of three reps. when three reps begins to feel heavy you drop down to single repetitions. This is when you begin to try to max out on the exercise. Keep increasing the weight until you have reached your one rep max. Make sure to keep track of what this record is because this is what you will try to beat next time out. A max effort exercise would look like this:
Exercise Sets Reps Weight
Floor Press 2 5 45
2 3 95
1 3 135
1 3 185
1 3 225
1 3 275
1 1 315
1 1 365
1 1 405
1 1 425
In the above example, 425 would represent the lifters one-rep max. This is the number that should be recorded to break on a later date. It is very important to only use this method with only one exercise per workout and no more than one time per week for each lift. The Westside method schedules one max effort day for the bench and one for the squat and dead lift as follows:
Monday: Max Effort Day for the Squat and Dead lift
Wednesday: Max Effort Day for the Bench Press
Since many of the same muscle are used for the squat and dead lift, they are trained on the same day. Actually very little dead lifting is performed with this style of training because of this reason.
The Max Effort Exercises should also be closely related to the squat, bench press and dead lift, and all should have a very high strength carry over value. These exercises include: Box Squats, Good Mornings, and Dead lift for the squat and dead lift days and Board, floor, Close Grip. Incline and Band Press for the Bench Press. These are just a sample list of over 1000 different max effort exercises that can be performed for max effort days. See index for complete list
The best max effort exercise for the squat and dead lift are Good Mornings, Low Box Squat and Dead lift. The good morning is probably the best overall exercise for strength development and should be utilized 70 percent of all Max effort days. There are several different types of Good Morning that can be performed. Good morning using a variety of different bars such as the safety squat bar, buffalo bar, and cambered bar are classics at Westside barbell. Many of these good mornings are performed suspended from chains. By suspending the bar from the power rack to perform the good morning (Anderson good mornings or suspended good mornings) you are creating the same specificity as when you dead lift. This is because you start the dead lift without any eccentric or lowering motion. This is also true when you have to squat under a suspended barbell and lift it to a standing position.
The best max effort exercises for the bench press are the Floor Press, Board Press, Close Grip Bench Press, JM Press, and Reverse Band Presses. All Pressing motions! As with the squat and dead lift max effort exercises, there are several variations of each movement. Each exercise has a specific function. For instance, the floor press takes your legs out of the motion so greater emphasis is placed on the pecs, delts and triceps. The close grip incline press takes your lats out of the motion so there is greater emphasis placed on the deltoids and triceps. The board press also take your lats out of the motion and provide you with the opportunity to train at specific points of the bench press.
The max effort meso cycle should only last 1 to 3 weeks with the later being for the novice and intermediate strength athlete. The more advanced the athlete the shorter the time spent per cycle or time spent per max effort exercise. This is due to the neuromuscular coordination and motor learning. The advanced athlete can call upon more motor unit activation (use more muscle) than the novice. For example the novice may use 40% of their total muscle while the advanced will be able to use 80%. The second reason is the neuromuscular and muscular coordination. The advanced lifter has always figured out and mastered how to do the movement. His body knows what to do and when. The novice athlete has not figured out how to do the movement and is far from mastering it. This will allow the novice to progress and break records for around three weeks on each max effort exercise. This however will not be the case for the advanced athlete. These athletes will have one good week where they break a record then will be unable to break it for the next two weeks. So the solution is simple, switch every week! This will allow you to break records each week and avoided overstraining. Max effort training by the way is a process of learning how to better synchronize the muscle involvement. This is because of the activation of the central nervous system as well as other factors such as motivation and concentration.
If you do not always break a record, don’t worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easily to the point you really didn’t strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.
Dave Tate cscs
"westside methode"
wär ich ein powerlifter,würd ich das programm mal testen! find ich vom grundgedanken her gut(explosivität..)und vor allem abwechslungsreich!kann mir schon vorstellen,das man damit ziemliche kraft entwickeln kann,die nicht nur auf ganz bestimmte bewegungsabläufe beschränkt ist..muss mal überlegen,ob man sowas mit hypertrophietraining "kreuzen" kann.ich probier ja sowieso gern herum.lästig ist nur,in 20min geht da nix.allerdings wär das im winter nicht so schlimm...The Periodization Bible — Part II
The New Testament — Conjugated Periodization
by Dave Tate
You wanna get strong? You wanna lift so much weight that your gym has to order more plates? You wanna be able to grab a few girls, stack'em on top of each other and hoist them high into the air using only your pinky finger while you peer furtively up their skirts? Sure, who doesn't? Strength is a cool side effect of bodybuilding, but if you really want to develop maximal strength, two things are for certain. One, you'd better use periodization and two, you better listen to Dave Tate.
In Part I of this article, Dave gave you a thorough explanation of linear (or Western) periodization. This time, Dave will explain the improved Westside variation of this popular method.
The Westside method is a periodization program known as conjugated periodization. Simply put, this means that several abilities are coupled together throughout the training. The Western method of periodization separates these variables while the Westside method puts it all together at the same time. The entire Westside method is centered around three basic pathways to strength development:
1. Max Effort
2. Repetition
3. Dynamic Effort
The Max Effort Method
The max effort method is considered by many coaches and athletes as being the superior method of strength development. It places great demands on both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination as well as stimulating the central nervous system. These demands force the body into greater adaptation and this adaptation is what's responsible for strength gains.
When training using the max effort method, the central nervous system inhibition is reduced. Thus the max number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency (Zatsiorisky). The one drawback to using this method is that you can't train with weights above 90 percent RM for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happens your strength will begin to diminish.
This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind, Westside set out to find a way around this three-week barrier. The way to overcome this barrier is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to three weeks. This keeps the body fresh so the method can be used year round.
So how do you use this method? First, decide on one main exercise that will be trained with this method. After a proper warm-up, proceed to this exercise and begin to warm up with the bar. Taking small weight increases, you begin to work up in weight with sets of three reps. When three reps begins to feel heavy, you drop down to single reps. This is when you begin to try to max out on the exercise. Keep increasing the weight until you've reached your one rep max. Make sure to keep track of what this record is because this is what you'll try to beat next time out. A max effort exercise would look like this:
Exercise
Sets
Reps
Weight
*Floor Press
2
5
45
2
3
95
1
3
135
1
3
185
1
3
225
1
3
275
1
1
315
1
1
365
1
1
405
1
1
425
*A floor press is done just like a bench press,
but while lying on the floor.
In the above example, 425 would represent the lifter's one rep max. This is the number that should be recorded and that you'll try to break on a later date. It's very important to use this method with only one exercise per workout and no more than one time per week for each lift. The Westside method schedules one max effort day for the bench and one for the squat and deadlift as follows:
Monday: Max effort day for building the squat and deadlift (while this seems contradictory to the above statement — doing only one exercise per workout — it's not, in that you'll be doing one exercise to build both movements).
Wednesday: Max effort day for building the bench press.
Since many of the same muscles are used for the squat and deadlift, they're trained on the same day. Actually, very little deadlifting is performed with this style of training because of these reasons.
The best max effort exercises for the squat and deadlift are good mornings, low box squats and deadlifts themselves. The good morning is probably the best overall exercise for strength development and should be utilized 70% of all max effort days. There are several different types of good mornings that can be performed. Good mornings using a variety of different bars such as the safety squat bar, buffalo bar, and cambered bar are classics at Westside Barbell.
Many of these good mornings are performed with the bar suspended from chains. By suspending the bar from the power rack (called Anderson good mornings or suspended good mornings), you're creating the same specificity as when you deadlift. This is because you start the deadlift without any eccentric or lowering motion. This is also true when you have to squat under a suspended barbell and lift it to a standing position.
The best max effort exercises for the bench press are the floor press, board press, close grip bench press, JM press, and reverse band presses. All pressing motions! As with the squat and deadlift max effort exercises, there are several variations of each movement. Each exercise has a specific function.
For instance, the floor press (basically lying on the floor, benching sans bench) takes your legs out of the motion so greater emphasis is placed on the pecs, delts and triceps. The close grip incline press takes your lats out of the motion so there's greater emphasis placed on the deltoids and triceps. The board press also takes your lats out of the motion and provides you with the opportunity to train at specific points of the bench press.
The max effort meso cycle should only last one to three weeks with the latter being for the novice and intermediate strength athlete. The more advanced the athlete, the shorter the time spent per cycle (or time spent per max effort exercise). This is due to the neuromuscular coordination and motor learning. The advanced athlete can call upon more motor unit activation (use more muscle) than the novice. For example, the novice may use 40% of his total muscle while the advanced lifter will be able to use 80%.
The second reason involves neuromuscular and muscular coordination. The advanced lifter has already figured out and mastered how to do the movement. His body knows what to do and when. The novice athlete hasn't figured out how to do the movement and is far from mastering it. This will allow the novice to progress and break records for around three weeks on each max effort exercise. However, this won't be the case for the advanced athlete.
These advanced athletes will have one good week where they break a record then will be unable to break it for the next two weeks. So the solution is simple: switch every week! This will allow you to break records on a weekly basis and avoid overstraining. (Max effort training, by the way, is a process of learning how to better synchronize the muscle involvement. This is because of the activation of the central nervous system as well as other factors such as motivation and concentration.)
If you don't always break a record, don't worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easy, to the point that you really didn't strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.
Max Effort Parameters
Load (Intensity)
90 to 100%
Number of Exercises
1
Repetitions
1-3
Rest Interval
2 to 5 minutes
Frequency / Week
1 (Squat Day) / 1(Bench Day)
Weeks per Exercise
1-3
The Repetition Method
The repetition method, otherwise known as the bodybuilding method, is the best method for the development of muscle hypertrophy (growth). This is the method in which all supplemental and accessory exercises are trained. This method is defined as "lifting a non-maximal load to failure." It's during the fatigued state when the muscles develop maximal force. According to this method, it's only during the final lifts that, because of fatigue, the maximal number of motor units are recruited. This system of training has a great influence on the development of muscle mass which is why it's become so popular among the bodybuilding population.
The fact that the final lifts are performed in a fatigued state makes this method less effective compared to the others when it comes to maximal strength development. This is one of the reasons why powerlifters are much stronger than bodybuilders. Another disadvantage of this method is that each set is carried to failure. This makes it very difficult to increase your volume and work capacity over time because of the amount of restoration needed. Training to failure is very hard on your ability to recover and in my opinion should only be used sparingly. When you extend a set to failure many times, the last few reps are performed with bad technique and this, of course, can lead to injuries.
Westside has modified this principle to what I refer to as the modified repetition method. With the modified version all sets should be stopped with the breakdown of technique and there should always be a rep or two left in you. Remember this principle is applied to all supplemental and accessory movements. These movements are designed to be exactly what they are: supplemental and accessory. The main goals of these movements are to complement the overall training program, not take away. By training to failure on every set you'd be taking away from the general purpose of the movements, which is to increase work capacity.
The parameters of this method are varied and depend upon the individual. Some athletes develop muscle mass with high reps and other with low reps. It would be crazy to assume one specific rep range works for everybody. What we've found to be best with supplemental and accessory work are sets in the range of 5 to 8 with repetitions between 6 and 15. This is a rather large range, but as I mentioned before, everybody is different. If you've been training for some time, I bet you have a better idea of what works for you than I could ever prescribe.
The load or weight to be used should fall in the 60 to 80% range and you should always leave a rep or two at the end of each set. Try to switch the exercise after every one to five workouts in which it's used. If you decide not to switch the exercise then switch the way it's trained. Try to add an extra set for a few weeks. Try to work it up for four weeks then deload it for four weeks. The point is to change it up as much as possible.
Modified Repetition Method Parameters
Load (Intensity)
60 – 80%
Number of Exercises
All Supplemental and accessory
Sets / Repetitions
5-8 / 6 - 15
Rest Interval
1 to 3 minutes
Frequency / Week
All workouts
Weeks per Exercise
1-5
The Dynamic Effort Method
The dynamic effort method is used to train the box squat and bench press. This method is defined as lifting a non-maximal load with the greatest speed possible. This method should be coupled with compensatory acceleration. This means you must apply as much force as possible to the barbell, i.e. pushing as hard and as fast as you can in the concentric phase of the lift. If you squat 700 pounds and are training with 400 pounds, then you should be applying 700 pounds of force to the barbell.
The weight used should be non-maximal in the 50% to 75% range. In the text Supertraining, Siff and Verkershonsky state the best range for developing explosive strength in the barbell squat is two-thirds of your best one rep max. Angel Spassov defines this as 50 to 70%. This method isn't used for the development of maximal strength but for the improved rate of force development and explosive force. Let's assume an athlete can only get so strong for genetic reasons. If this lifter has reached his genetic strength potential and has been stuck for five years, can he not get stronger?
I was told at one time that I had reached this limit. I was told this by several university professors in the field of exercise science. What they forgot is that if I learned how to better synchronize my muscles to perform, then I could get stronger by better neural activation. The result was 300 more pounds on my total! This is because at the time I may have only been activating 50% of my absolute strength potential. Through dynamic effort training I was able to activate 70 or 80%. (The percents are used as examples, this was never tested.) This is also a reason why the percent should never be as important as bar speed. Everybody has different motor learning and the advanced strength athlete will activate more than a novice athlete. This is why the more advanced the lifter is, the harder the work is.
For example, if both athletes performed a set of 10 reps in the barbell squat with 80%, the novice would walk away like it was no big deal while the advanced athlete wouldn't be walking anywhere because he'd be on the floor! If you've followed Louie Simmons' articles over the years, you'll notice how the percents he writes for the squat and bench press have reduced over the years. This is because the gym as a whole has gotten so much stronger and more experienced. The percent for the bench press used to be around 70, now it's around 45 to 55%. Many have asked how this can be. Well, as stated above the athletes are now recruiting more motor units than before so less percent is needed to produce the desired results.
The best way to determine what your training percent should be is to begin with 50% and have someone videotape your bar speed. If you can maintain this bar speed then increase the percent. When the bar slows down then decrease the percent.
The dynamic days are scheduled as follows:
Friday: Dynamic effort squat day
Sunday: Dynamic effort bench day
These dynamic days are to be done 72 hours after the max effort day to allow for proper recovery. The training scheme for the dynamic days begins with plenty of warm-up sets and progresses onto the work sets. For the bench press, use 8 sets of 3 reps and for the box squat use 8 sets of 2 reps. There are many reasons for this set and rep structure.
The first reason is because of Prilepin's charts (see below). Prilepin studied weight lifters to see what the optimal number of reps in each intensity zone should be. Louie applied this research into the training of the power lifts. At the time the bench press was being trained in the 70% range while the squat was being performed in the 80% range.
This would equate to an optimal number of 18 lifts for the bench press in a range of 12 to 24 reps, and 15 lifts for the squat in a 10 to 20 rep range. He decided on two reps for the squats and three reps for the bench press because of time specificity of the competitive lifts. The time to unrack the weight to the completion of the lift in competition came out very similar to two reps in the box squat and three reps in the bench press.
Optimal Number of Lifts by Percent (Prilepin 1974)
Percent
Repetitions
Optimal
Range
70
3 - 6
18 Lifts
12 -24
80
2 - 4
15 lifts
10 -20
90
1 - 2
7 - 10 Lifts
4 -10
The second reason for this set and rep structure is because it has stood the test of time and has worked over and over again without flaw. This has created an evolving system where the optimal number of lifts has remained 16 for the box squat and 24 for the bench press for weights under 80%. We've also found that weights above 80% needed to be handled for 10% of all lifts. This is accomplished by working up after your sets are completed. These extra bonus sets shouldn't be used every workout, but should make up ten out of every 100 lifts.
Here's a sample dynamic box workout:
Exercise
Sets
Reps
Weight
Rest
Box Squats
2
2
135
1 min
1
2
225
1 min
1
2
315
1 min
1
2
405
1 min
8
2
455
1 min
The squat workout should begin after a general warm-up of exercises such as reverse hypers, sled dragging and pulldown abs. These exercises should be light and used to warm up and get loose. The first sets should be light and concentrate on good technique. Do as many sets as you need with the lighter weight until you feel warmed up. Progress up to your desired training weight. Once at your training weight, the rest period becomes critical. You'll only rest one minute between sets.
The goal of this is to fatigue the fast twitch muscle fibers. These are the fibers responsible for explosive strength and power. We want these muscle fibers to become fatigued so over time they'll adapt and become stronger. The other reason is that the more you fatigue, then the more fibers will become activated with each set. A fatigued muscle fiber won't work as well, so the body will activate more and more muscle fibers to complete the workout. A one-minute rest constitutes about a 1:6 work to rest ratio and anything over 1.5 minutes will defeat the training effect.
Here's a sample dynamic bench workout:
Exercise
Sets
Reps
Weight
Rest
Bench Press
2
5
45
1 min
1
3
135
1 min
1
3
185
1 min
1
3
225
1 min
8
3
275
1 min
The bench press workout should begin with a light general warm-up consisting of upper body sled work and warm-up exercises for the bench press. These can include light shoulder raises to the front, side and rear, as well as some light triceps extension or pushdown movements. After the warm-up you'd move onto the actual bench press movement.
Begin with the bar for as many sets as necessary to feel loose and warmed up. Increase the weight with 20 or 50 pound jumps depending on your strength level and begin the dynamic work sets with whatever the prescribed percentage is for the day. You'll perform 8 sets of 3 reps in a dynamic fashion. These reps should be performed with compensatory acceleration.
When you finish the bench press movement, you'll move onto the supplemental exercise for the day. This exercise should be some type of tricep press or extension movement. The best ones for this purpose are the close grip bench press, JM press, barbell extensions or dumbbell extensions. The intensity should be high and the volume low. We've found sets in the range of two to four with 3 to 8 reps to be excellent. These sets are started after all warm ups for the exercise have been completed.
The accessory exercises that follow should include movements for the shoulders and lats. These movements should be of moderate intensity for intermediate rep ranges. This may be three to five sets of 8 to 15 reps. You should leave one or two reps at the end of every set. This means you won't go to failure, which will ensure proper recovery for the next workout. Upon completion of these movements you'll move onto prehabilation work consisting of external rotation moments for the shoulders and light pushdowns and or light sled work for the upper body.
Summary of the Four Day Program
The micro cycle of the Westside method is seven days consisting of two days for the squat and deadlift, and two days for the bench press. These days are outlined below:
Monday: Max effort squat and deadlift training
1. The max effort exercise: work up to 1 to 3 rep max
2. The supplemental movement:
• This will include one exercise for the hamstrings. The best movements for them include partial deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts and glute/ham raises for three to six sets of 5 to 8 reps.
3. The accessory movements:
• One or two abdominal movements
• One lower back movement: The best exercise for this purpose is the reverse hyper for three to four sets of 6 to10 reps.
4. Prehabilation Movements
• This can include exercises for the knee and hip joints. The best movements for this purpose include any type of lower body sled dragging.
The meso cycle structure of this day depends on the exercise: The max effort exercise should be trained using the maximal effort method described above and cycled for one to three weeks; then you can switch to another movement. The supplemental movement should be trained using the modified repetition method and the exercise should be changed in one form or another every workout. This change can be modifying the set pattern or the repetition design or by totally switching to another movement.
For example, you may select the glute/ham raise for the first two workouts for both Monday's maximal effort and Friday's dynamic effort, but may do four sets of five for Monday and five sets of eight on Friday. Or, you may decide to do Romanian deadlifts instead of the glute/ham raise on Friday's workout. The key is to stay as fresh as possible and to keep the body in a constant process of adaptation. The accessory exercises may stay constant for a longer period of time because the intensity is lower. So you may pick the reverse hyper for all dynamic and max effort lower body days for four weeks. You may, however, still change the set/rep pattern.
Actually, the reverse hyper is a staple in our routine and is trained on all Mondays and Fridays with only slight modifications being made. Another very good and popular way to cycle the supplemental and accessory exercises is to cycle the weight in a step-like loading pattern where you'll push up the weight being used for four weeks. Then you'll drop the weight back down and build back up again trying to exceed the weights used for the first cycle. The prehabilation exercises are cycled in the same style as the supplemental and accessory movements.
Wednesday: Max effort bench press training
1. The max effort exercise: work up to 1 or 3 rep max
2. Supplemental exercise: Tricep movement with high volume (six to eight sets for 8 to 12 reps). The best exercises for this group include JM presses, and barbell or dumbbell extensions.
3. Accessory movements: (triceps, lats, delts)
• This includes movements for the lats, shoulders and possibly extra tricep work. The best movements for this group include tricep extensions, rows and various shoulder raises.
4. Prehabilation Movements: (training of the joints)
• This includes movements for the elbow and shoulder joints: The best movements for this group include external shoulder rotations, press downs and sled dragging for two to four sets of 12 to 15 reps.
The training structure for this day is exactly the same as Monday's workout.
Friday: Dynamic squat and deadlift training
1. The box squat: Work up to 8 sets of 2 reps with prescribed percentage
2. The supplemental movement:
• This will include one exercise for the hamstrings. The best movements for the hams include partial deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts and glute/ham raises for four to six sets of 5 to 8 reps.
3. The accessory movements:
• One or two abdominal movements for three to five sets of 6 to 12 reps
a. One lower back movement: The best exercise for this purpose is the reverse hyper performed for three to four sets of 8 reps.
4. Prehabilation Movements
• This can include exercises for the knee and hip joints. The best movements for this purpose include any type of lower body sled dragging.
Friday's training structure for the dynamic exercise (box squat) is cycled in a four week step-like loading pattern. If your first week's training percent is 60 then you'll want to cycle the weight up 10% for the next three weeks. For example:
Week
Percent
1
60%
2
63%
3
66%
4
70%
This four week meso cycle is intended to increase the dynamic explosive strength of the lower body and squat exercise. All squatting is performed on a box. Box squats are the best way to train for explosive strength because you go from a static to dynamic contraction.
The box squat is also the best way to teach squatting technique because it's easier to teach a person to sit back onto a box than without. (See my article in issue #120 for details on the box squat.) The box squat is trained using 8 sets of 2 reps. The supplemental, accessory, and prehabilation exercises are cycled the same as in Monday's max effort workout.
Sunday: Bench press training
1. The Bench Press: Work up to 8 sets of 3 reps using three different grips all inside the rings.
2. Supplemental Exercise: Tricep movement with high intensity (two to four sets for 2 to 8 reps). The best movements are close grip bench presses, JM presses, and dumbbell or barbell extensions.
3. Accessory movements: (triceps, lats, delts)
• This includes movements for the lats, shoulders and possibly extra tricep work. The best movements for this group include tricep extensions, rows and various shoulder raises.
4. Prehabilation Movements: (training of the joints)
• This includes movements for the elbow and shoulder joints. The best movements for this group include external shoulder rotations, press downs and sled dragging for two to four sets of 12 to 15 reps.
Sunday's dynamic effort bench workout begins with the same type of warm up work as on Wednesday's max effort day. The bench press is trained for 8 sets of 3 reps using three different grips utilizing the dynamic effort method. All these grips should be within the rings on a standard power bar. The bench press is trained with a smooth wave with very little fluctuation in barbell weight. For example:
Week
Percent
1
50%
2
50%
3
50%
4
50%
We've found this type of wave to be the most beneficial to the bench press. The supplemental, accessory and prehabilation movements are trained under the same guidelines as Wednesday's maximal effort day.
Wrap up
A special note about the dynamic effort training days. Remember that the training is based upon bar speeds and the percents are used only as recommendations. Also, it's vital that 10% of all the work sets are above 90%. This simply means that after you perform your eight sets, you'll increase the weight or work up to a heavy single or double. The purpose of this is to teach you to strain in a fatigued state while the fast twitch muscle fibers are fatigued. This will teach the body to better activate the central nervous system under greater loads.
The Westside style of training may also be called cybernetic periodization. This basically means you'll listen to your body. As you remember with the Western method of periodization, the training percentage sets and reps are set. So what's to happen if you're sick, injured or have to miss a workout for whatever reason? This becomes a very important issue because things do happen that will effect your training program.
With the Westside system the dynamic days are based upon bar speed so if you're having a bad day, then reduce the weight and maintain the bar speed. The max effort days are based on the straining with maximal loads. So if you don't break a record because of a bad day, it's no big deal, as long as you still strained.
One other aspect about the max effort day. Pick the max effort exercise after you arrive in the gym. This way you'll apply more effort to the lift than if you pre-planned the movement and dreaded getting to the gym all day to do it. Just make sure you don't always choose those exercises that you're good at. This is, after all, about building strength and muscle, not your ego.
wär ich ein powerlifter,würd ich das programm mal testen! find ich vom grundgedanken her gut(explosivität..)und vor allem abwechslungsreich!kann mir schon vorstellen,das man damit ziemliche kraft entwickeln kann,die nicht nur auf ganz bestimmte bewegungsabläufe beschränkt ist..muss mal überlegen,ob man sowas mit hypertrophietraining "kreuzen" kann.ich probier ja sowieso gern herum.lästig ist nur,in 20min geht da nix.allerdings wär das im winter nicht so schlimm...The Periodization Bible — Part II
The New Testament — Conjugated Periodization
by Dave Tate
You wanna get strong? You wanna lift so much weight that your gym has to order more plates? You wanna be able to grab a few girls, stack'em on top of each other and hoist them high into the air using only your pinky finger while you peer furtively up their skirts? Sure, who doesn't? Strength is a cool side effect of bodybuilding, but if you really want to develop maximal strength, two things are for certain. One, you'd better use periodization and two, you better listen to Dave Tate.
In Part I of this article, Dave gave you a thorough explanation of linear (or Western) periodization. This time, Dave will explain the improved Westside variation of this popular method.
The Westside method is a periodization program known as conjugated periodization. Simply put, this means that several abilities are coupled together throughout the training. The Western method of periodization separates these variables while the Westside method puts it all together at the same time. The entire Westside method is centered around three basic pathways to strength development:
1. Max Effort
2. Repetition
3. Dynamic Effort
The Max Effort Method
The max effort method is considered by many coaches and athletes as being the superior method of strength development. It places great demands on both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination as well as stimulating the central nervous system. These demands force the body into greater adaptation and this adaptation is what's responsible for strength gains.
When training using the max effort method, the central nervous system inhibition is reduced. Thus the max number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency (Zatsiorisky). The one drawback to using this method is that you can't train with weights above 90 percent RM for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happens your strength will begin to diminish.
This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind, Westside set out to find a way around this three-week barrier. The way to overcome this barrier is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to three weeks. This keeps the body fresh so the method can be used year round.
So how do you use this method? First, decide on one main exercise that will be trained with this method. After a proper warm-up, proceed to this exercise and begin to warm up with the bar. Taking small weight increases, you begin to work up in weight with sets of three reps. When three reps begins to feel heavy, you drop down to single reps. This is when you begin to try to max out on the exercise. Keep increasing the weight until you've reached your one rep max. Make sure to keep track of what this record is because this is what you'll try to beat next time out. A max effort exercise would look like this:
Exercise
Sets
Reps
Weight
*Floor Press
2
5
45
2
3
95
1
3
135
1
3
185
1
3
225
1
3
275
1
1
315
1
1
365
1
1
405
1
1
425
*A floor press is done just like a bench press,
but while lying on the floor.
In the above example, 425 would represent the lifter's one rep max. This is the number that should be recorded and that you'll try to break on a later date. It's very important to use this method with only one exercise per workout and no more than one time per week for each lift. The Westside method schedules one max effort day for the bench and one for the squat and deadlift as follows:
Monday: Max effort day for building the squat and deadlift (while this seems contradictory to the above statement — doing only one exercise per workout — it's not, in that you'll be doing one exercise to build both movements).
Wednesday: Max effort day for building the bench press.
Since many of the same muscles are used for the squat and deadlift, they're trained on the same day. Actually, very little deadlifting is performed with this style of training because of these reasons.
The best max effort exercises for the squat and deadlift are good mornings, low box squats and deadlifts themselves. The good morning is probably the best overall exercise for strength development and should be utilized 70% of all max effort days. There are several different types of good mornings that can be performed. Good mornings using a variety of different bars such as the safety squat bar, buffalo bar, and cambered bar are classics at Westside Barbell.
Many of these good mornings are performed with the bar suspended from chains. By suspending the bar from the power rack (called Anderson good mornings or suspended good mornings), you're creating the same specificity as when you deadlift. This is because you start the deadlift without any eccentric or lowering motion. This is also true when you have to squat under a suspended barbell and lift it to a standing position.
The best max effort exercises for the bench press are the floor press, board press, close grip bench press, JM press, and reverse band presses. All pressing motions! As with the squat and deadlift max effort exercises, there are several variations of each movement. Each exercise has a specific function.
For instance, the floor press (basically lying on the floor, benching sans bench) takes your legs out of the motion so greater emphasis is placed on the pecs, delts and triceps. The close grip incline press takes your lats out of the motion so there's greater emphasis placed on the deltoids and triceps. The board press also takes your lats out of the motion and provides you with the opportunity to train at specific points of the bench press.
The max effort meso cycle should only last one to three weeks with the latter being for the novice and intermediate strength athlete. The more advanced the athlete, the shorter the time spent per cycle (or time spent per max effort exercise). This is due to the neuromuscular coordination and motor learning. The advanced athlete can call upon more motor unit activation (use more muscle) than the novice. For example, the novice may use 40% of his total muscle while the advanced lifter will be able to use 80%.
The second reason involves neuromuscular and muscular coordination. The advanced lifter has already figured out and mastered how to do the movement. His body knows what to do and when. The novice athlete hasn't figured out how to do the movement and is far from mastering it. This will allow the novice to progress and break records for around three weeks on each max effort exercise. However, this won't be the case for the advanced athlete.
These advanced athletes will have one good week where they break a record then will be unable to break it for the next two weeks. So the solution is simple: switch every week! This will allow you to break records on a weekly basis and avoid overstraining. (Max effort training, by the way, is a process of learning how to better synchronize the muscle involvement. This is because of the activation of the central nervous system as well as other factors such as motivation and concentration.)
If you don't always break a record, don't worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easy, to the point that you really didn't strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.
Max Effort Parameters
Load (Intensity)
90 to 100%
Number of Exercises
1
Repetitions
1-3
Rest Interval
2 to 5 minutes
Frequency / Week
1 (Squat Day) / 1(Bench Day)
Weeks per Exercise
1-3
The Repetition Method
The repetition method, otherwise known as the bodybuilding method, is the best method for the development of muscle hypertrophy (growth). This is the method in which all supplemental and accessory exercises are trained. This method is defined as "lifting a non-maximal load to failure." It's during the fatigued state when the muscles develop maximal force. According to this method, it's only during the final lifts that, because of fatigue, the maximal number of motor units are recruited. This system of training has a great influence on the development of muscle mass which is why it's become so popular among the bodybuilding population.
The fact that the final lifts are performed in a fatigued state makes this method less effective compared to the others when it comes to maximal strength development. This is one of the reasons why powerlifters are much stronger than bodybuilders. Another disadvantage of this method is that each set is carried to failure. This makes it very difficult to increase your volume and work capacity over time because of the amount of restoration needed. Training to failure is very hard on your ability to recover and in my opinion should only be used sparingly. When you extend a set to failure many times, the last few reps are performed with bad technique and this, of course, can lead to injuries.
Westside has modified this principle to what I refer to as the modified repetition method. With the modified version all sets should be stopped with the breakdown of technique and there should always be a rep or two left in you. Remember this principle is applied to all supplemental and accessory movements. These movements are designed to be exactly what they are: supplemental and accessory. The main goals of these movements are to complement the overall training program, not take away. By training to failure on every set you'd be taking away from the general purpose of the movements, which is to increase work capacity.
The parameters of this method are varied and depend upon the individual. Some athletes develop muscle mass with high reps and other with low reps. It would be crazy to assume one specific rep range works for everybody. What we've found to be best with supplemental and accessory work are sets in the range of 5 to 8 with repetitions between 6 and 15. This is a rather large range, but as I mentioned before, everybody is different. If you've been training for some time, I bet you have a better idea of what works for you than I could ever prescribe.
The load or weight to be used should fall in the 60 to 80% range and you should always leave a rep or two at the end of each set. Try to switch the exercise after every one to five workouts in which it's used. If you decide not to switch the exercise then switch the way it's trained. Try to add an extra set for a few weeks. Try to work it up for four weeks then deload it for four weeks. The point is to change it up as much as possible.
Modified Repetition Method Parameters
Load (Intensity)
60 – 80%
Number of Exercises
All Supplemental and accessory
Sets / Repetitions
5-8 / 6 - 15
Rest Interval
1 to 3 minutes
Frequency / Week
All workouts
Weeks per Exercise
1-5
The Dynamic Effort Method
The dynamic effort method is used to train the box squat and bench press. This method is defined as lifting a non-maximal load with the greatest speed possible. This method should be coupled with compensatory acceleration. This means you must apply as much force as possible to the barbell, i.e. pushing as hard and as fast as you can in the concentric phase of the lift. If you squat 700 pounds and are training with 400 pounds, then you should be applying 700 pounds of force to the barbell.
The weight used should be non-maximal in the 50% to 75% range. In the text Supertraining, Siff and Verkershonsky state the best range for developing explosive strength in the barbell squat is two-thirds of your best one rep max. Angel Spassov defines this as 50 to 70%. This method isn't used for the development of maximal strength but for the improved rate of force development and explosive force. Let's assume an athlete can only get so strong for genetic reasons. If this lifter has reached his genetic strength potential and has been stuck for five years, can he not get stronger?
I was told at one time that I had reached this limit. I was told this by several university professors in the field of exercise science. What they forgot is that if I learned how to better synchronize my muscles to perform, then I could get stronger by better neural activation. The result was 300 more pounds on my total! This is because at the time I may have only been activating 50% of my absolute strength potential. Through dynamic effort training I was able to activate 70 or 80%. (The percents are used as examples, this was never tested.) This is also a reason why the percent should never be as important as bar speed. Everybody has different motor learning and the advanced strength athlete will activate more than a novice athlete. This is why the more advanced the lifter is, the harder the work is.
For example, if both athletes performed a set of 10 reps in the barbell squat with 80%, the novice would walk away like it was no big deal while the advanced athlete wouldn't be walking anywhere because he'd be on the floor! If you've followed Louie Simmons' articles over the years, you'll notice how the percents he writes for the squat and bench press have reduced over the years. This is because the gym as a whole has gotten so much stronger and more experienced. The percent for the bench press used to be around 70, now it's around 45 to 55%. Many have asked how this can be. Well, as stated above the athletes are now recruiting more motor units than before so less percent is needed to produce the desired results.
The best way to determine what your training percent should be is to begin with 50% and have someone videotape your bar speed. If you can maintain this bar speed then increase the percent. When the bar slows down then decrease the percent.
The dynamic days are scheduled as follows:
Friday: Dynamic effort squat day
Sunday: Dynamic effort bench day
These dynamic days are to be done 72 hours after the max effort day to allow for proper recovery. The training scheme for the dynamic days begins with plenty of warm-up sets and progresses onto the work sets. For the bench press, use 8 sets of 3 reps and for the box squat use 8 sets of 2 reps. There are many reasons for this set and rep structure.
The first reason is because of Prilepin's charts (see below). Prilepin studied weight lifters to see what the optimal number of reps in each intensity zone should be. Louie applied this research into the training of the power lifts. At the time the bench press was being trained in the 70% range while the squat was being performed in the 80% range.
This would equate to an optimal number of 18 lifts for the bench press in a range of 12 to 24 reps, and 15 lifts for the squat in a 10 to 20 rep range. He decided on two reps for the squats and three reps for the bench press because of time specificity of the competitive lifts. The time to unrack the weight to the completion of the lift in competition came out very similar to two reps in the box squat and three reps in the bench press.
Optimal Number of Lifts by Percent (Prilepin 1974)
Percent
Repetitions
Optimal
Range
70
3 - 6
18 Lifts
12 -24
80
2 - 4
15 lifts
10 -20
90
1 - 2
7 - 10 Lifts
4 -10
The second reason for this set and rep structure is because it has stood the test of time and has worked over and over again without flaw. This has created an evolving system where the optimal number of lifts has remained 16 for the box squat and 24 for the bench press for weights under 80%. We've also found that weights above 80% needed to be handled for 10% of all lifts. This is accomplished by working up after your sets are completed. These extra bonus sets shouldn't be used every workout, but should make up ten out of every 100 lifts.
Here's a sample dynamic box workout:
Exercise
Sets
Reps
Weight
Rest
Box Squats
2
2
135
1 min
1
2
225
1 min
1
2
315
1 min
1
2
405
1 min
8
2
455
1 min
The squat workout should begin after a general warm-up of exercises such as reverse hypers, sled dragging and pulldown abs. These exercises should be light and used to warm up and get loose. The first sets should be light and concentrate on good technique. Do as many sets as you need with the lighter weight until you feel warmed up. Progress up to your desired training weight. Once at your training weight, the rest period becomes critical. You'll only rest one minute between sets.
The goal of this is to fatigue the fast twitch muscle fibers. These are the fibers responsible for explosive strength and power. We want these muscle fibers to become fatigued so over time they'll adapt and become stronger. The other reason is that the more you fatigue, then the more fibers will become activated with each set. A fatigued muscle fiber won't work as well, so the body will activate more and more muscle fibers to complete the workout. A one-minute rest constitutes about a 1:6 work to rest ratio and anything over 1.5 minutes will defeat the training effect.
Here's a sample dynamic bench workout:
Exercise
Sets
Reps
Weight
Rest
Bench Press
2
5
45
1 min
1
3
135
1 min
1
3
185
1 min
1
3
225
1 min
8
3
275
1 min
The bench press workout should begin with a light general warm-up consisting of upper body sled work and warm-up exercises for the bench press. These can include light shoulder raises to the front, side and rear, as well as some light triceps extension or pushdown movements. After the warm-up you'd move onto the actual bench press movement.
Begin with the bar for as many sets as necessary to feel loose and warmed up. Increase the weight with 20 or 50 pound jumps depending on your strength level and begin the dynamic work sets with whatever the prescribed percentage is for the day. You'll perform 8 sets of 3 reps in a dynamic fashion. These reps should be performed with compensatory acceleration.
When you finish the bench press movement, you'll move onto the supplemental exercise for the day. This exercise should be some type of tricep press or extension movement. The best ones for this purpose are the close grip bench press, JM press, barbell extensions or dumbbell extensions. The intensity should be high and the volume low. We've found sets in the range of two to four with 3 to 8 reps to be excellent. These sets are started after all warm ups for the exercise have been completed.
The accessory exercises that follow should include movements for the shoulders and lats. These movements should be of moderate intensity for intermediate rep ranges. This may be three to five sets of 8 to 15 reps. You should leave one or two reps at the end of every set. This means you won't go to failure, which will ensure proper recovery for the next workout. Upon completion of these movements you'll move onto prehabilation work consisting of external rotation moments for the shoulders and light pushdowns and or light sled work for the upper body.
Summary of the Four Day Program
The micro cycle of the Westside method is seven days consisting of two days for the squat and deadlift, and two days for the bench press. These days are outlined below:
Monday: Max effort squat and deadlift training
1. The max effort exercise: work up to 1 to 3 rep max
2. The supplemental movement:
• This will include one exercise for the hamstrings. The best movements for them include partial deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts and glute/ham raises for three to six sets of 5 to 8 reps.
3. The accessory movements:
• One or two abdominal movements
• One lower back movement: The best exercise for this purpose is the reverse hyper for three to four sets of 6 to10 reps.
4. Prehabilation Movements
• This can include exercises for the knee and hip joints. The best movements for this purpose include any type of lower body sled dragging.
The meso cycle structure of this day depends on the exercise: The max effort exercise should be trained using the maximal effort method described above and cycled for one to three weeks; then you can switch to another movement. The supplemental movement should be trained using the modified repetition method and the exercise should be changed in one form or another every workout. This change can be modifying the set pattern or the repetition design or by totally switching to another movement.
For example, you may select the glute/ham raise for the first two workouts for both Monday's maximal effort and Friday's dynamic effort, but may do four sets of five for Monday and five sets of eight on Friday. Or, you may decide to do Romanian deadlifts instead of the glute/ham raise on Friday's workout. The key is to stay as fresh as possible and to keep the body in a constant process of adaptation. The accessory exercises may stay constant for a longer period of time because the intensity is lower. So you may pick the reverse hyper for all dynamic and max effort lower body days for four weeks. You may, however, still change the set/rep pattern.
Actually, the reverse hyper is a staple in our routine and is trained on all Mondays and Fridays with only slight modifications being made. Another very good and popular way to cycle the supplemental and accessory exercises is to cycle the weight in a step-like loading pattern where you'll push up the weight being used for four weeks. Then you'll drop the weight back down and build back up again trying to exceed the weights used for the first cycle. The prehabilation exercises are cycled in the same style as the supplemental and accessory movements.
Wednesday: Max effort bench press training
1. The max effort exercise: work up to 1 or 3 rep max
2. Supplemental exercise: Tricep movement with high volume (six to eight sets for 8 to 12 reps). The best exercises for this group include JM presses, and barbell or dumbbell extensions.
3. Accessory movements: (triceps, lats, delts)
• This includes movements for the lats, shoulders and possibly extra tricep work. The best movements for this group include tricep extensions, rows and various shoulder raises.
4. Prehabilation Movements: (training of the joints)
• This includes movements for the elbow and shoulder joints: The best movements for this group include external shoulder rotations, press downs and sled dragging for two to four sets of 12 to 15 reps.
The training structure for this day is exactly the same as Monday's workout.
Friday: Dynamic squat and deadlift training
1. The box squat: Work up to 8 sets of 2 reps with prescribed percentage
2. The supplemental movement:
• This will include one exercise for the hamstrings. The best movements for the hams include partial deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts and glute/ham raises for four to six sets of 5 to 8 reps.
3. The accessory movements:
• One or two abdominal movements for three to five sets of 6 to 12 reps
a. One lower back movement: The best exercise for this purpose is the reverse hyper performed for three to four sets of 8 reps.
4. Prehabilation Movements
• This can include exercises for the knee and hip joints. The best movements for this purpose include any type of lower body sled dragging.
Friday's training structure for the dynamic exercise (box squat) is cycled in a four week step-like loading pattern. If your first week's training percent is 60 then you'll want to cycle the weight up 10% for the next three weeks. For example:
Week
Percent
1
60%
2
63%
3
66%
4
70%
This four week meso cycle is intended to increase the dynamic explosive strength of the lower body and squat exercise. All squatting is performed on a box. Box squats are the best way to train for explosive strength because you go from a static to dynamic contraction.
The box squat is also the best way to teach squatting technique because it's easier to teach a person to sit back onto a box than without. (See my article in issue #120 for details on the box squat.) The box squat is trained using 8 sets of 2 reps. The supplemental, accessory, and prehabilation exercises are cycled the same as in Monday's max effort workout.
Sunday: Bench press training
1. The Bench Press: Work up to 8 sets of 3 reps using three different grips all inside the rings.
2. Supplemental Exercise: Tricep movement with high intensity (two to four sets for 2 to 8 reps). The best movements are close grip bench presses, JM presses, and dumbbell or barbell extensions.
3. Accessory movements: (triceps, lats, delts)
• This includes movements for the lats, shoulders and possibly extra tricep work. The best movements for this group include tricep extensions, rows and various shoulder raises.
4. Prehabilation Movements: (training of the joints)
• This includes movements for the elbow and shoulder joints. The best movements for this group include external shoulder rotations, press downs and sled dragging for two to four sets of 12 to 15 reps.
Sunday's dynamic effort bench workout begins with the same type of warm up work as on Wednesday's max effort day. The bench press is trained for 8 sets of 3 reps using three different grips utilizing the dynamic effort method. All these grips should be within the rings on a standard power bar. The bench press is trained with a smooth wave with very little fluctuation in barbell weight. For example:
Week
Percent
1
50%
2
50%
3
50%
4
50%
We've found this type of wave to be the most beneficial to the bench press. The supplemental, accessory and prehabilation movements are trained under the same guidelines as Wednesday's maximal effort day.
Wrap up
A special note about the dynamic effort training days. Remember that the training is based upon bar speeds and the percents are used only as recommendations. Also, it's vital that 10% of all the work sets are above 90%. This simply means that after you perform your eight sets, you'll increase the weight or work up to a heavy single or double. The purpose of this is to teach you to strain in a fatigued state while the fast twitch muscle fibers are fatigued. This will teach the body to better activate the central nervous system under greater loads.
The Westside style of training may also be called cybernetic periodization. This basically means you'll listen to your body. As you remember with the Western method of periodization, the training percentage sets and reps are set. So what's to happen if you're sick, injured or have to miss a workout for whatever reason? This becomes a very important issue because things do happen that will effect your training program.
With the Westside system the dynamic days are based upon bar speed so if you're having a bad day, then reduce the weight and maintain the bar speed. The max effort days are based on the straining with maximal loads. So if you don't break a record because of a bad day, it's no big deal, as long as you still strained.
One other aspect about the max effort day. Pick the max effort exercise after you arrive in the gym. This way you'll apply more effort to the lift than if you pre-planned the movement and dreaded getting to the gym all day to do it. Just make sure you don't always choose those exercises that you're good at. This is, after all, about building strength and muscle, not your ego.
kurt1
New member
"Ermüdung" des ZNS
hallo klaus,
ich möchte keinesfalls die trainerqualifikation von simmons & kollegen in frage stellen. sie haben zweifellos grosse erfahrung im training der maximalkraft. die empirie ist hier zweifellos sehr wichtig.
aber ich schon sagte, hat die "erschöpfung" im medizinischen sinn eine andere definition. treffender und richtiger wäre es, den begriff der "ermüdung" zu verwenden (analog zur muskelermüdung).
gruss, kurt
hallo klaus,
ich möchte keinesfalls die trainerqualifikation von simmons & kollegen in frage stellen. sie haben zweifellos grosse erfahrung im training der maximalkraft. die empirie ist hier zweifellos sehr wichtig.
aber ich schon sagte, hat die "erschöpfung" im medizinischen sinn eine andere definition. treffender und richtiger wäre es, den begriff der "ermüdung" zu verwenden (analog zur muskelermüdung).
gruss, kurt
*ich vorsichtig mitreden darf*?
Es gibt in Bezug auf den Zusammenhang Schlaf-Training- Wirkung- aufs zentrale Nervensystem Untersuchungen, die belegen, daß bei bestimmten Zusammenhängen das ZNS reagiert.
Aber bei diesen Studien, wurde den Probanden, erheblich der Schlaf entzogen.Ergebnis: erhebliche Leistungsrückgänge in Bezug auf Koordination und Schnellkraft. In erster Linie war das ZNS betroffen, feinmotorische Elemente sind stärker beeinträchtigt als grobmotorische Bewegungsausführungen.
Beispiel: Wer zum Beispiel nach einem 40-minütigen Ausdauerlauf sehr wenig Schlaf bekommt, braucht für die Wiederauffüllung seiner entleerten Glykogenspeicher(primär in der Leber und der Muskulatur)ca. 6 bis 8h länger.Unzureichender Schlaf bewirkt eine Aktivierung des vegitativen Nervensystems und verlängert so die Erholungsfähigkeit erheblich.
Intensive sportliche Belastung und unzureichender Schlaf bewirken Stress und schwächen das Immunsystem.
Diese Aussage stammt von Dr. Elmar Wienecke, der sicher für viele ein unbekannter ist!
Oftmals wird eine nervliche Überbelastung nicht sehr ernst genommen, die Folgen können aber erheblich sein unser Nervensystem zeigt uns ganz deutlich unsere Grenzen, nur sollten wir auch darauf hören.
In der heutigen Zeit wird alles labidar als Stress abgetan, aber Nervenbahnen die Informationen nicht weiterleiten können oder Fehlinformationen ans ZNS weitergeben lösen Krankeiten aus.
Letzteres ist meine subjektive Meinung und meine Überzeugung.
lg Angi
Es gibt in Bezug auf den Zusammenhang Schlaf-Training- Wirkung- aufs zentrale Nervensystem Untersuchungen, die belegen, daß bei bestimmten Zusammenhängen das ZNS reagiert.
Aber bei diesen Studien, wurde den Probanden, erheblich der Schlaf entzogen.Ergebnis: erhebliche Leistungsrückgänge in Bezug auf Koordination und Schnellkraft. In erster Linie war das ZNS betroffen, feinmotorische Elemente sind stärker beeinträchtigt als grobmotorische Bewegungsausführungen.
Beispiel: Wer zum Beispiel nach einem 40-minütigen Ausdauerlauf sehr wenig Schlaf bekommt, braucht für die Wiederauffüllung seiner entleerten Glykogenspeicher(primär in der Leber und der Muskulatur)ca. 6 bis 8h länger.Unzureichender Schlaf bewirkt eine Aktivierung des vegitativen Nervensystems und verlängert so die Erholungsfähigkeit erheblich.
Intensive sportliche Belastung und unzureichender Schlaf bewirken Stress und schwächen das Immunsystem.
Diese Aussage stammt von Dr. Elmar Wienecke, der sicher für viele ein unbekannter ist!
Oftmals wird eine nervliche Überbelastung nicht sehr ernst genommen, die Folgen können aber erheblich sein unser Nervensystem zeigt uns ganz deutlich unsere Grenzen, nur sollten wir auch darauf hören.
In der heutigen Zeit wird alles labidar als Stress abgetan, aber Nervenbahnen die Informationen nicht weiterleiten können oder Fehlinformationen ans ZNS weitergeben lösen Krankeiten aus.
Letzteres ist meine subjektive Meinung und meine Überzeugung.
lg Angi
kurt1
New member
"westside" versus "moosburger"-methode
danke für deine mühe und die schöne übersicht.
trotzdem - ich bleibe dabei: das erhöhen des widerstands mit zunehmender muskelermüdung, sprich ATP-depletion (die selbst bei längeren satzpausen gegeben ist) halte ich nicht für sinnvoll.
auch bei beschriebener methode werden die ersten sätze mit submaximalen widerständen quasi nur zum "aufwärmen" verwendet. erst der letzte satz ist der eigentlich trainingswirksame. und das halte ich für unrationell und ausserdem für zu zeitaufwendig (wie du auch bemerkt hast
).
ich bleibe bei "meiner" abwärtspyramide, die v.a. mit supramaximalwiderstand (2-3 "negative" wh mit ca. 120% one-rep-max) als ersten satz die maximalkraft sehr effektiv zu steigern vermag. zumindest ist das meine empirie.
gruss, kurt
danke für deine mühe und die schöne übersicht.
trotzdem - ich bleibe dabei: das erhöhen des widerstands mit zunehmender muskelermüdung, sprich ATP-depletion (die selbst bei längeren satzpausen gegeben ist) halte ich nicht für sinnvoll.
auch bei beschriebener methode werden die ersten sätze mit submaximalen widerständen quasi nur zum "aufwärmen" verwendet. erst der letzte satz ist der eigentlich trainingswirksame. und das halte ich für unrationell und ausserdem für zu zeitaufwendig (wie du auch bemerkt hast
).ich bleibe bei "meiner" abwärtspyramide, die v.a. mit supramaximalwiderstand (2-3 "negative" wh mit ca. 120% one-rep-max) als ersten satz die maximalkraft sehr effektiv zu steigern vermag. zumindest ist das meine empirie.
gruss, kurt
kurt1
New member
du darfst! )
liebe angi,
danke für deine ausführungen, die durchaus korrekt sind.
auf diesem gebiet konnte ich durch die jahrelange betreuung eines extremradsportlers ausgiebig erfahrung und erkenntnisse sammeln. schlafentzug ist so ziemlich das brutalste, was man einem menschen antun kann, v.a. wenn gleichzeitig körperlich unvorstellbares geleistet werden muss. es gibt weltweit keine grössere anforderung an körper, geist und seele als das RAAM (race across america), dem anerkannt härtesten wettbewerb der welt.
dagegen ist jede himalaya-expedition eine gemütliche wanderung und der hawaii-triathlon ein familiärer tagesausflug (von einem marathonlauf ganz zu schweigen...)
lg, kurt
)liebe angi,
danke für deine ausführungen, die durchaus korrekt sind.
auf diesem gebiet konnte ich durch die jahrelange betreuung eines extremradsportlers ausgiebig erfahrung und erkenntnisse sammeln. schlafentzug ist so ziemlich das brutalste, was man einem menschen antun kann, v.a. wenn gleichzeitig körperlich unvorstellbares geleistet werden muss. es gibt weltweit keine grössere anforderung an körper, geist und seele als das RAAM (race across america), dem anerkannt härtesten wettbewerb der welt.
dagegen ist jede himalaya-expedition eine gemütliche wanderung und der hawaii-triathlon ein familiärer tagesausflug (von einem marathonlauf ganz zu schweigen...)
lg, kurt
Re: "Ermüdung" des ZNS
hm,verstehe!aber der grundgedanke,das es sich dabei um "ermüdung" des zns und nicht der muskulatur handelt könnte richtig sein?
ich hab keineswegs vor,ein powerlifter zu werden(wär auch ein bissi spät,lol),aber die art,wie simmons & co an die sache rangehen gefällt mir!hat nix mit dem stumpfsinnigen 5x3 powerlifting training zu tun,das ich von früher kenn.geht ja fast in deine richtung,lol,die empfehlungen andere sportarten als ausgleich zu betreiben und sowas.obwohl,kannst du dir einen verrückten,der über 400kg kniebeugen macht,beim basketball vorstellen,hehehe??allerdings,wenn der viel auf explosivität trainiert,sollte seine sprungkraft gewaltig sein...
werd mir das ganze mal genauer anschauen,vielleicht fällt mir dazu was ein...nur würde ich im moment noch den schwerpunkt auf muskelzuwachs legen,aber wenn ich mal 80-85kg in guter form hab...den mehr brauch ich nicht,und dann kommt es mir sehr drauf an,das die muskeln nicht nur nett ausschauen,sondern auch so arbeiten,wie sie ausschauen.den in einem hat simmons sicher recht:bb sind langsam und bei weitem nicht so stark als man aus ihrer muskelmasse schliessen könnte..da sind sogar ausgesprochene warmduscher dabei.und wenn mir ein bb sagt,die powerlifter seien alle aufgespritzt,krieg ich einen schreikrampf!
grüsse,klaus
hm,verstehe!aber der grundgedanke,das es sich dabei um "ermüdung" des zns und nicht der muskulatur handelt könnte richtig sein?
ich hab keineswegs vor,ein powerlifter zu werden(wär auch ein bissi spät,lol),aber die art,wie simmons & co an die sache rangehen gefällt mir!hat nix mit dem stumpfsinnigen 5x3 powerlifting training zu tun,das ich von früher kenn.geht ja fast in deine richtung,lol,die empfehlungen andere sportarten als ausgleich zu betreiben und sowas.obwohl,kannst du dir einen verrückten,der über 400kg kniebeugen macht,beim basketball vorstellen,hehehe??allerdings,wenn der viel auf explosivität trainiert,sollte seine sprungkraft gewaltig sein...
werd mir das ganze mal genauer anschauen,vielleicht fällt mir dazu was ein...nur würde ich im moment noch den schwerpunkt auf muskelzuwachs legen,aber wenn ich mal 80-85kg in guter form hab...den mehr brauch ich nicht,und dann kommt es mir sehr drauf an,das die muskeln nicht nur nett ausschauen,sondern auch so arbeiten,wie sie ausschauen.den in einem hat simmons sicher recht:bb sind langsam und bei weitem nicht so stark als man aus ihrer muskelmasse schliessen könnte..da sind sogar ausgesprochene warmduscher dabei.und wenn mir ein bb sagt,die powerlifter seien alle aufgespritzt,krieg ich einen schreikrampf!
grüsse,klaus
Re: "westside" versus "moosburger"-methode
da is meiner meinung nach auch der hund drinnen!ich hab schon immer auf deine art trainiert,einfach weil es logisch ist..und zu sagen,wenn man bis zur absoluten muskelerschöpfung trainiert,gibts troubles mit der regeneration...na ja,dann mach ich halt weniger und nicht so oft.
aber interessant find ich den einbau von "speeddays"!hab mich schon immer gefragt,ob man nicht auch in dem bereich trainieren sollte,wo man am meisten kraft entwickelt(im physikalischen sinn).
würde mir auch nicht einfallen,zb die westsidemethode einfach zu übernehmen,aber ein paar ideen könnte man vielleicht ins training einfliessen lassen...ich zumindest,du hast ja eine andere zielsetzung.im moment bin ich mir allerdings sicher,das ich bei meinem derzeitigen training effektiver muskeln aufbau,aber irgendwann werden ja genug da sein,lol,hab nicht vor mich neu einzukleiden!und dann könnte ich mal was für die kraft und schnelligkeit tun....
grüsse,klaus
da is meiner meinung nach auch der hund drinnen!ich hab schon immer auf deine art trainiert,einfach weil es logisch ist..und zu sagen,wenn man bis zur absoluten muskelerschöpfung trainiert,gibts troubles mit der regeneration...na ja,dann mach ich halt weniger und nicht so oft.
aber interessant find ich den einbau von "speeddays"!hab mich schon immer gefragt,ob man nicht auch in dem bereich trainieren sollte,wo man am meisten kraft entwickelt(im physikalischen sinn).
würde mir auch nicht einfallen,zb die westsidemethode einfach zu übernehmen,aber ein paar ideen könnte man vielleicht ins training einfliessen lassen...ich zumindest,du hast ja eine andere zielsetzung.im moment bin ich mir allerdings sicher,das ich bei meinem derzeitigen training effektiver muskeln aufbau,aber irgendwann werden ja genug da sein,lol,hab nicht vor mich neu einzukleiden!und dann könnte ich mal was für die kraft und schnelligkeit tun....
grüsse,klaus
Re: du darfst! )
nix schlafen is schon alleine schlimm genug,und dann noch das radfahren...sind lauter verrückte,lol,das RAAM ist einer der wenigen events im ausdauerbereich,der mir wirklich gefällt.ich halt die ausdauersportler meist für weiche semmeln(nicht alle natürlich*ggg*),aber das RAAM,da braucht man nix dazu sagen...
allerdings würd ich das nicht mit höhenbergsteigen vergleichen,das kann sicher auch recht heftig sein!hab da einiges gelesen drüber,ist ein thema,das meine ex fasziniert.die schlafen ja auch nicht mehr,wenn sie im letzten lager sind,und dann kommt noch die permanente gefahr dazu...
ich mein da allerdings nicht die idioten,die 50.000 $ zahlen und sich mit sauerstoffflaschen von den sherpas raufzerrren lassen,das schafft glaub ich bald wer,wenn sich keine probleme mit der höhenanpassung(was ja nix mit guter form zu tun hat..eher ob man gut auf die medikamente anspricht)und dem wetter ergeben.
mfg,klaus
)nix schlafen is schon alleine schlimm genug,und dann noch das radfahren...sind lauter verrückte,lol,das RAAM ist einer der wenigen events im ausdauerbereich,der mir wirklich gefällt.ich halt die ausdauersportler meist für weiche semmeln(nicht alle natürlich*ggg*),aber das RAAM,da braucht man nix dazu sagen...
allerdings würd ich das nicht mit höhenbergsteigen vergleichen,das kann sicher auch recht heftig sein!hab da einiges gelesen drüber,ist ein thema,das meine ex fasziniert.die schlafen ja auch nicht mehr,wenn sie im letzten lager sind,und dann kommt noch die permanente gefahr dazu...
ich mein da allerdings nicht die idioten,die 50.000 $ zahlen und sich mit sauerstoffflaschen von den sherpas raufzerrren lassen,das schafft glaub ich bald wer,wenn sich keine probleme mit der höhenanpassung(was ja nix mit guter form zu tun hat..eher ob man gut auf die medikamente anspricht)und dem wetter ergeben.
mfg,klaus
herbert
Professional
abnehmende gewichte vorteilhaft...
auch für mich ist diese variante eineutig die effizientere..
der ausgeruhte (und leicht antrainierte) muskel kann das höchstmögliche gewicht bewältigen - die schwersten gewichte zum schluss würden auf einen bereits ausgepowerten muskel treffen und die verletzungsgefahr um ein mehrfaches steigern - hohes anfangsgewicht steigert auch die motivation - das "zweithöchste" gewicht im folgenden satz ist subjektiv auch schon viel "leichter" und konzentrierter zu bewältigen.
der trainingsfortschritt lässt sich besonders gut durch den vergleich des ersten schweren satzes dokumentieren...wenn eine saubere wh beim folgetraining din ist oder weniger möglilch ist... ein vergleich mit den schwersten gewichten am satzende enthält zu viele unbekannte aus dem bereich ausdauer/motivation/pausenzeiten usw.
*seitjahrundtagabwärtstrainiert*
herbert
auch für mich ist diese variante eineutig die effizientere..
der ausgeruhte (und leicht antrainierte) muskel kann das höchstmögliche gewicht bewältigen - die schwersten gewichte zum schluss würden auf einen bereits ausgepowerten muskel treffen und die verletzungsgefahr um ein mehrfaches steigern - hohes anfangsgewicht steigert auch die motivation - das "zweithöchste" gewicht im folgenden satz ist subjektiv auch schon viel "leichter" und konzentrierter zu bewältigen.
der trainingsfortschritt lässt sich besonders gut durch den vergleich des ersten schweren satzes dokumentieren...wenn eine saubere wh beim folgetraining din ist oder weniger möglilch ist... ein vergleich mit den schwersten gewichten am satzende enthält zu viele unbekannte aus dem bereich ausdauer/motivation/pausenzeiten usw.
*seitjahrundtagabwärtstrainiert*
herbert
Re: abnehmende gewichte vorteilhaft...
ich stimme dir im prinzip zu,nur hab ich die erfahrung gemacht,das ich auf dieser basis recht schnell bezüglich kraft in eine mauer lauf..im moment trainier ich natürlich auf diese weise,aber nach 2,5 monaten training nach 3j pause braucht man sich ums training ja noch keine gedanken machen,kurz,schwer und intenisv und der erfolg stellt sich von selber ein.nur ab einem gewissen punkt hinkt dann die kraft der muskelmasse hinterher...
nimm mal kurt als beispiel:er kombiniert kraft und ausdauertraining und drückt 130 auf der bank.mich interessiert eher die kombination bb/maximalkraft,da wären die 130kg etwas ärmlich,vor allem wenn man bedenkt,das ich mir ja deutlich leichter tun sollte, weil ich 10cm kleiner bin als er...aber ich weiss von früher,das es ab 140kg ziemlich schwer wird...mir schwebt da eher sowas in richtung doppeltes körpergewicht vor,natürlich nicht kurzfristig.und da gibts dann 3 möglichkeiten:entweder ich find eine trainingsmethode,um dorthin zu kommen oder nicht.oder meine genetik widerspricht...aber das weiss man vorher nicht,also werd ich da ein bissi experimentieren müssen.hm,und ein klimmzug mit dem eigenen körpergewicht zusätzlich wär auch nicht schlecht;-))
grüsse,klaus
ich stimme dir im prinzip zu,nur hab ich die erfahrung gemacht,das ich auf dieser basis recht schnell bezüglich kraft in eine mauer lauf..im moment trainier ich natürlich auf diese weise,aber nach 2,5 monaten training nach 3j pause braucht man sich ums training ja noch keine gedanken machen,kurz,schwer und intenisv und der erfolg stellt sich von selber ein.nur ab einem gewissen punkt hinkt dann die kraft der muskelmasse hinterher...
nimm mal kurt als beispiel:er kombiniert kraft und ausdauertraining und drückt 130 auf der bank.mich interessiert eher die kombination bb/maximalkraft,da wären die 130kg etwas ärmlich,vor allem wenn man bedenkt,das ich mir ja deutlich leichter tun sollte, weil ich 10cm kleiner bin als er...aber ich weiss von früher,das es ab 140kg ziemlich schwer wird...mir schwebt da eher sowas in richtung doppeltes körpergewicht vor,natürlich nicht kurzfristig.und da gibts dann 3 möglichkeiten:entweder ich find eine trainingsmethode,um dorthin zu kommen oder nicht.oder meine genetik widerspricht...aber das weiss man vorher nicht,also werd ich da ein bissi experimentieren müssen.hm,und ein klimmzug mit dem eigenen körpergewicht zusätzlich wär auch nicht schlecht;-))
grüsse,klaus
kurt1
New member
Re: "Ermüdung" des ZNS
am "grundgedanke" dahinter ist sicherlich "was dran". wie gesagt - körper, geist & seele...
den schreikrampf kannst du dir übrigens sparen, powerlifter & kraftdreikämpfer stehen bodybuildern im "aufspritzen" kaum nach... (glaub mir, ich weiss, wovon ich speche)
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> hm,verstehe!aber der grundgedanke,das es sich dabei um "ermüdung" des zns und nicht der muskulatur handelt könnte richtig sein?
> ich hab keineswegs vor,ein powerlifter zu werden(wär auch ein bissi spät,lol),aber die art,wie simmons & co an die sache rangehen gefällt mir!hat nix mit dem stumpfsinnigen 5x3 powerlifting training zu tun,das ich von früher kenn.geht ja fast in deine richtung,lol,die empfehlungen andere sportarten als ausgleich zu betreiben und sowas.obwohl,kannst du dir einen verrückten,der über 400kg kniebeugen macht,beim basketball vorstellen,hehehe??allerdings,wenn der viel auf explosivität trainiert,sollte seine sprungkraft gewaltig sein...
> werd mir das ganze mal genauer anschauen,vielleicht fällt mir dazu was ein...nur würde ich im moment noch den schwerpunkt auf muskelzuwachs legen,aber wenn ich mal 80-85kg in guter form hab...den mehr brauch ich nicht,und dann kommt es mir sehr drauf an,das die muskeln nicht nur nett ausschauen,sondern auch so arbeiten,wie sie ausschauen.den in einem hat simmons sicher recht:bb sind langsam und bei weitem nicht so stark als man aus ihrer muskelmasse schliessen könnte..da sind sogar ausgesprochene warmduscher dabei.und wenn mir ein bb sagt,die powerlifter seien alle aufgespritzt,krieg ich einen schreikrampf!
> grüsse,klaus
am "grundgedanke" dahinter ist sicherlich "was dran". wie gesagt - körper, geist & seele...
den schreikrampf kannst du dir übrigens sparen, powerlifter & kraftdreikämpfer stehen bodybuildern im "aufspritzen" kaum nach... (glaub mir, ich weiss, wovon ich speche)
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> hm,verstehe!aber der grundgedanke,das es sich dabei um "ermüdung" des zns und nicht der muskulatur handelt könnte richtig sein?
> ich hab keineswegs vor,ein powerlifter zu werden(wär auch ein bissi spät,lol),aber die art,wie simmons & co an die sache rangehen gefällt mir!hat nix mit dem stumpfsinnigen 5x3 powerlifting training zu tun,das ich von früher kenn.geht ja fast in deine richtung,lol,die empfehlungen andere sportarten als ausgleich zu betreiben und sowas.obwohl,kannst du dir einen verrückten,der über 400kg kniebeugen macht,beim basketball vorstellen,hehehe??allerdings,wenn der viel auf explosivität trainiert,sollte seine sprungkraft gewaltig sein...
> werd mir das ganze mal genauer anschauen,vielleicht fällt mir dazu was ein...nur würde ich im moment noch den schwerpunkt auf muskelzuwachs legen,aber wenn ich mal 80-85kg in guter form hab...den mehr brauch ich nicht,und dann kommt es mir sehr drauf an,das die muskeln nicht nur nett ausschauen,sondern auch so arbeiten,wie sie ausschauen.den in einem hat simmons sicher recht:bb sind langsam und bei weitem nicht so stark als man aus ihrer muskelmasse schliessen könnte..da sind sogar ausgesprochene warmduscher dabei.und wenn mir ein bb sagt,die powerlifter seien alle aufgespritzt,krieg ich einen schreikrampf!
> grüsse,klaus
kurt1
New member
RAAM...
1. ausdauersportler sind alles andere als "weiche semmeln", im gegenteil, sie sind in jeder hinsicht viel "härter" als kraftsportler - nicht nur im wettkampf, sondern v.a. auch im training!
2. das RAAM ist kein klassischer ausdauerevent, da gehört mehr dazu, v.a. eine immense mentale stärke, die nur wenige sportler auf der welt zuwegebringen.
3. wolfgang fasching, fünfmaliger RAAM-finisher (zweimal sieger, zweimal zweiter, einmal dritter) bezwang heuer den everest. seine aussage: das RAAM ist sowohl von der physischen als auch von der psychischen seite wesentlich schwieriger.
4. mit der farce der everest-touristen sowie dem problem der höhenakklimatisation hast du recht.
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> nix schlafen is schon alleine schlimm genug,und dann noch das radfahren...sind lauter verrückte,lol,das RAAM ist einer der wenigen events im ausdauerbereich,der mir wirklich gefällt.ich halt die ausdauersportler meist für weiche semmeln(nicht alle natürlich*ggg*),aber das RAAM,da braucht man nix dazu sagen...
> allerdings würd ich das nicht mit höhenbergsteigen vergleichen,das kann sicher auch recht heftig sein!hab da einiges gelesen drüber,ist ein thema,das meine ex fasziniert.die schlafen ja auch nicht mehr,wenn sie im letzten lager sind,und dann kommt noch die permanente gefahr dazu...
> ich mein da allerdings nicht die idioten,die 50.000 $ zahlen und sich mit sauerstoffflaschen von den sherpas raufzerrren lassen,das schafft glaub ich bald wer,wenn sich keine probleme mit der höhenanpassung(was ja nix mit guter form zu tun hat..eher ob man gut auf die medikamente anspricht)und dem wetter ergeben.
> mfg,klaus
1. ausdauersportler sind alles andere als "weiche semmeln", im gegenteil, sie sind in jeder hinsicht viel "härter" als kraftsportler - nicht nur im wettkampf, sondern v.a. auch im training!
2. das RAAM ist kein klassischer ausdauerevent, da gehört mehr dazu, v.a. eine immense mentale stärke, die nur wenige sportler auf der welt zuwegebringen.
3. wolfgang fasching, fünfmaliger RAAM-finisher (zweimal sieger, zweimal zweiter, einmal dritter) bezwang heuer den everest. seine aussage: das RAAM ist sowohl von der physischen als auch von der psychischen seite wesentlich schwieriger.
4. mit der farce der everest-touristen sowie dem problem der höhenakklimatisation hast du recht.
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> nix schlafen is schon alleine schlimm genug,und dann noch das radfahren...sind lauter verrückte,lol,das RAAM ist einer der wenigen events im ausdauerbereich,der mir wirklich gefällt.ich halt die ausdauersportler meist für weiche semmeln(nicht alle natürlich*ggg*),aber das RAAM,da braucht man nix dazu sagen...
> allerdings würd ich das nicht mit höhenbergsteigen vergleichen,das kann sicher auch recht heftig sein!hab da einiges gelesen drüber,ist ein thema,das meine ex fasziniert.die schlafen ja auch nicht mehr,wenn sie im letzten lager sind,und dann kommt noch die permanente gefahr dazu...
> ich mein da allerdings nicht die idioten,die 50.000 $ zahlen und sich mit sauerstoffflaschen von den sherpas raufzerrren lassen,das schafft glaub ich bald wer,wenn sich keine probleme mit der höhenanpassung(was ja nix mit guter form zu tun hat..eher ob man gut auf die medikamente anspricht)und dem wetter ergeben.
> mfg,klaus
kurt1
New member
Muskelermüdung versus Übertrainingssyndrom
ich schliesse eine gewisse mitbeanspruchung zentralnervöser strukturen im krafttraining nicht aus. ein übertrainingssyndrom als solches gibt es allerdings nur im ausdauersport.
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> bin bis sonntag immer nur von ermüdung und übertraining der muskulatur ausgegangen.und die sache mit dem zns würde einige sachen erklären,die ich früher beobachtet hab..
> grüsse,klaus
ich schliesse eine gewisse mitbeanspruchung zentralnervöser strukturen im krafttraining nicht aus. ein übertrainingssyndrom als solches gibt es allerdings nur im ausdauersport.
gruss, kurt
klaus schrieb:
> bin bis sonntag immer nur von ermüdung und übertraining der muskulatur ausgegangen.und die sache mit dem zns würde einige sachen erklären,die ich früher beobachtet hab..
> grüsse,klaus
Re: "Ermüdung" des ZNS
ich weiss schon was die powerlifter machen...hab nur gemeint,es soll mir kein bb die leistung von kraftdreikämpfern mit dem argument,sie seien gedopt runtermachen.wer im glashaus sitzt....
auch über die ausführung lässt sich streiten,die haben halt ihre eigene technik.aber über 450kg kniebeugen und über 300 auf der bank sind mit jeder technik enorm!is mir ein rätsel,wie man solche lasten aushalten kann,bei mir fangen sehnen und gelenke scho bei meinen spielzeuggewichten zum rebellieren an...
mfg,klaus
ich weiss schon was die powerlifter machen...hab nur gemeint,es soll mir kein bb die leistung von kraftdreikämpfern mit dem argument,sie seien gedopt runtermachen.wer im glashaus sitzt....
auch über die ausführung lässt sich streiten,die haben halt ihre eigene technik.aber über 450kg kniebeugen und über 300 auf der bank sind mit jeder technik enorm!is mir ein rätsel,wie man solche lasten aushalten kann,bei mir fangen sehnen und gelenke scho bei meinen spielzeuggewichten zum rebellieren an...
mfg,klaus
Re: RAAM...
über das thema wolfgang fasching und härtling erübrigt sich sowieso jede diskussion!aber soviel ich weiss,is er mit sauerstoff rauf,ohne wird das ganze sicher um welten heftiger.
in bezug auf weiche semmeln hab ich eher die hobbysportler gemeint,aber will das sicher nicht verallgemeinern.wettkampfmässig kann man ohnehin nirgendst ohne starken willen vorn dabei sein.
grüsse,klaus
über das thema wolfgang fasching und härtling erübrigt sich sowieso jede diskussion!aber soviel ich weiss,is er mit sauerstoff rauf,ohne wird das ganze sicher um welten heftiger.
in bezug auf weiche semmeln hab ich eher die hobbysportler gemeint,aber will das sicher nicht verallgemeinern.wettkampfmässig kann man ohnehin nirgendst ohne starken willen vorn dabei sein.
grüsse,klaus
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