WSJ Article Says You Can Be Obese at a Normal Weight. Shocked?
- Thread starter LoseWeightNYC
- Start date
Andy2
New member
Thank goodness.
clever_plant
New member
I don't know.... he got clusterfucked pretty hard... maybe he just decided we weren't worthy?
Jeanette401
New member
Leaves more time for the reiki grass touch therapy!
alphaX
New member
While I do think that it's nearly impossible to have a happy relationship with food and at the same time avoid all carbs, it is very easy to live a diet largely devoid of simple carbs. Living largely devoid of simple carbs will cause you to burn fat faster and more steadily, even with zero exercise, than any amount of exercise combined with a high or medium level carb intake diet will.
I lost 80 lbs in 5 months with zero exercise and, having successfully reached my goal weight, have been in maintenance for about 6 weeks now. I fluctuate up and down about 5 lbs, but I don't stress over it - it's normal.
What did I eat while losing weight? Plenty of fat and protein, 99% grain free diet. Doesn't eating fat make you fat? No, it does not. I regularly, as in almost every day, eat 2-3 oz (50-100g) of french cheeses which are 34% fat. Did I have any food cravings? No, eating enough fat keeps food cravings in check. How did I get fiber? This is where the 1% grain comes in - 2 tbsp ground flaxseed added to my yogurt every morning. Is this enough fiber to keep your bowels moving regularly? Yes, it is.
Should you believe me? I don't care if you do or you don't. I am a goal oriented person, I wanted results, and I got them.
The choice is yours.
clever_plant
New member
Really? Any amount of exercise? burn fat faster? and steadily even? how awesomeness!!!
First of all, bascially you burn the fat you need to burn to get enough energy to make your body function when you are in a deficiency.
Second, what does burning fat more steadily mean, and does it do you any good? does it mean I burn equal amounts of fat in the morning and the afternoon, and is it unhealthy to burn all your fat in a spike, as compared to burning it slowly throughout the day? (hint: you burn fat when your body needs it, no matter what you eat)
Also.. ANY amount of exercise? really? so if i burn say.. 7000 kcal a day exercising... it still won't compare to low simple carb diets?
...
First off, congratulations on your weight loss, and I agree that fluctuating weight in the 2-4kg range is quite ordinary and nothing to stress over, or belov for that matter.
So... you ate a diet that was low in carbs, ok... did you count your calories? I mean I know a guy who lost a massive amount of weight eating only pizza.. does that make pizza a magic weight loss food?
Well I believe you lost weight, I believe you believe your are telling the truth, I also believe you have a very bad understanding of the relationship between association and causation, namely that association is not causation, and I believe you are one of many people that use anecdotes as evidence which really annoys me since... anecdotes are just that... cute little stories of no scientific value what so ever. I do believe you mean well, you are just... ill informed perhaps?
Jericho
New member
And here I am thinking this is dead.
I do want to question the notion that food cravings are stopped by eating fatty foods. Cravings are mental and sometimes hormonal (see pregnancy). I don't think eating one type of food will stop a food craving cause people crave different things. Often, the craving is based off emotions. They tend to strike when we are weakest such as sad, bored, lonely, or needy. The craving is a comfort, a reward. It's a mental situation for the most part (cases do vary on different conditions).
I do want to question the notion that food cravings are stopped by eating fatty foods. Cravings are mental and sometimes hormonal (see pregnancy). I don't think eating one type of food will stop a food craving cause people crave different things. Often, the craving is based off emotions. They tend to strike when we are weakest such as sad, bored, lonely, or needy. The craving is a comfort, a reward. It's a mental situation for the most part (cases do vary on different conditions).
I know that if I eat one big ol' greasy cheeseburger....I'm dying to eat another!
alphaX
New member
What I meant was that if you don't eat enough/any fat then you will physically crave it, and the physical craving combined with possible emotional cravings can lead you to massive caloric overdose on a daily basis. And when most of us crave fat, it's not the healthy fat in the form of a block of Camembert cheese - it's the unhealthy fat in the form of salty, deep-fried food.
Fat is a dietary necessity; carbohydrates are not. If you avoid fat, you will crave it because the body is not capable of metabolising fat from protein and carbs. If you avoid carbs, you will not crave them at all because the body is capable of metabolising carbs from protein and fat. In fact, if you avoid carbs, you very quickly lose all physical cravings for them because your insulin and blood sugar levels stabilise.
Jericho
New member
Is this personal experience only or has there been studies on it?
Edit: I can't find one thing that says that you can get carbohydrates from fat and protein. Also..I will disagree about the lack of a need for carbohydrates.
I think this really comes down to moderation. Everything in moderation.
I'm starting to feel like a broken record.
Edit: I can't find one thing that says that you can get carbohydrates from fat and protein. Also..I will disagree about the lack of a need for carbohydrates.
I think this really comes down to moderation. Everything in moderation.
I'm starting to feel like a broken record.
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alphaX
New member
Well, me too, if I'm drunk ;-) Once, I awoke the morning after a big party to find a triple cheeseburger from McDonalds plastered to the side of my face. Apparently, I had got a meal to go, hopped in a taxi, came inside my apartment and started eating it, then passed out. No point to this other than being funny in a pathetic way!
Honestly, I can't remember the last time I ate a burger. I don't eat them from restaurants because of the bread. When summer comes again, I will cook them on my grill, put some cheese on top, and eat them without bread. Yeah, I could fry a burger on my stove, but I don't actually eat red meat very often anymore.
Jericho
New member
To quote the Mayo Clinic:
The main thrust behind low-carbohydrate diets is that carbohydrates promote insulin production, which leads to weight gain. So, the theory goes, reduce your intake of carbohydrates and you'll shed extra pounds.
The Atkins diet — one of the more popular low-carbohydrate diets — limits carbohydrates to 20 grams a day initially. By contrast, the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine recommends that most adults consume at least 130 grams of carbohydrates each day. The Atkins diet excludes most grains, beans, fruits, breads, rice, potatoes, pastas and starchy vegetables. You can eat generous amounts of beef, pork, chicken, eggs and butter.
How does a low-carbohydrate diet actually work? By lowering your daily intake of carbohydrates, your body burns its stored carbohydrates (glycogen) for energy. When your body burns glycogen, water is released, and you lose weight.
Your body also starts burning some fat. Burning fat without carbohydrates creates byproducts called ketones that build up in your bloodstream (ketosis). Your kidneys remove the ketones from your bloodstream and eliminate them from your body through urine. Ketones suppress appetite, but they may also cause fatigue and nausea. Proponents of the Atkins diet claim that "benign dietary ketosis" is a safe, natural condition necessary for weight loss. Finally, if the total calorie intake on a low-carbohydrate diet is low enough, this leads to loss of muscle tissue, which also shows up on the scale as weight loss.
The traditional lower-fat, calorie-controlled diet
Most medical experts recommend a diet that's low in saturated fat and calories, while being moderate to high in complex carbohydrates. The Dietary Guidelines for Americans, developed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), outlines several guidelines for better health:
* Eat a variety of foods to get the energy, protein, vitamins, minerals and fiber you need for good health.
* Balance the food you eat with physical activity — maintain or improve your weight to reduce your chances of having high blood pressure, heart disease, a stroke, certain cancers and diabetes.
* Select a diet low in sugar. A diet high in sugar has too many calories and too few nutrients for most people.
* Choose a diet low in salt to help reduce your risk of high blood pressure.
* Eat plenty of grain products, vegetables and fruits to provide you with needed vitamins, minerals, fiber and complex carbohydrates, and to help lower your intake of fat.
* Choose a diet low in fat, saturated fat and cholesterol to reduce your risk of heart attack and certain types of cancer, and to help you maintain a healthy weight.
* Drink alcohol in moderation. Alcohol supplies calories, but little or no nutrients.
Low-carbohydrate diet: The upside
People, especially meat lovers, like eating the food on the low-carbohydrate diet — at least for a while. They also report that eating these foods suppresses their appetite. A study published in the May 2003 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine compared the Atkins diet with a low-fat, low-calorie diet. Researchers found that both diets resulted in weight loss. The study also found that those people who followed the Atkins diet:
* Lost more weight, faster. This advantage was apparent for the first six months. But at one year, the difference between the Atkins group and the low-fat, low-calorie group wasn’t statistically significant.
* Improved high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol — the "good" cholesterol — and triglyceride levels. These results surprised some opponents of this diet who had maintained that a high-fat diet would negatively affect cholesterol levels.
Low-carbohydrate diet: The downside
These same researchers found that after a year, there was no significant difference in weight loss between the low-carbohydrate diet and a standard low-calorie diet. Also, sticking to a low-carbohydrate diet doesn't appear to be any easier than following other weight-loss plans. People on the Atkins diet dropped out at a similar rate as those following the low-fat diet. If dieters aren't getting the results they want — anticipated weight loss — they drop out. This suggests that the low-carbohydrate diet, like so many diets, is no easier to stick to long term. And although you may initially prefer eating the foods included in the low-carbohydrate diet plan, food choices are actually more limited and perhaps less appealing over time.
Proponents of the Atkins diet claim that ketosis helps burn fat. However, researchers found no correlation between ketosis and weight loss in the Atkins diet. Prolonged ketosis may deplete mineral stores in the bones, causing them to become porous and brittle.
Research hasn't yet determined the long-term effectiveness or risks of the low-carbohydrate diet. And there's concern in the medical community about the long-term effects of these diets on a dieter's health, especially on the heart. It's well documented that foods promoted in the low-carbohydrate diets — for example, foods high in saturated fat such as meat, butter or cream — have been shown to increase your risk of heart disease and some types of cancer. And foods restricted on these diets — for example, whole grains, vegetables and fruits — have vitamins, minerals and other nutrients that can help reduce your risk of diabetes, heart disease, cancer and other health conditions.
Bottom line: Are they safe and effective?
Do these diets work? Low-carbohydrate diets do work in the short run. But their long-term weight-loss results aren't significantly better than those of standard diets.
Are they safe? It's impossible to say because little is known about their long-term effects on heart disease, cancer and other health conditions.
Bottom line: Be wary of diets that promise a quick fix or that sound too good to be true. Aim for a long-term plan — one that offers you a lifetime of tried-and-tested health strategies. Though traditional recommendations for weight management — eating a variety of vegetables, fruits and grains, and being physically active daily — may produce slower results, they're the proven path to improved health and lasting weight loss.
The main thrust behind low-carbohydrate diets is that carbohydrates promote insulin production, which leads to weight gain. So, the theory goes, reduce your intake of carbohydrates and you'll shed extra pounds.
The Atkins diet — one of the more popular low-carbohydrate diets — limits carbohydrates to 20 grams a day initially. By contrast, the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine recommends that most adults consume at least 130 grams of carbohydrates each day. The Atkins diet excludes most grains, beans, fruits, breads, rice, potatoes, pastas and starchy vegetables. You can eat generous amounts of beef, pork, chicken, eggs and butter.
How does a low-carbohydrate diet actually work? By lowering your daily intake of carbohydrates, your body burns its stored carbohydrates (glycogen) for energy. When your body burns glycogen, water is released, and you lose weight.
Your body also starts burning some fat. Burning fat without carbohydrates creates byproducts called ketones that build up in your bloodstream (ketosis). Your kidneys remove the ketones from your bloodstream and eliminate them from your body through urine. Ketones suppress appetite, but they may also cause fatigue and nausea. Proponents of the Atkins diet claim that "benign dietary ketosis" is a safe, natural condition necessary for weight loss. Finally, if the total calorie intake on a low-carbohydrate diet is low enough, this leads to loss of muscle tissue, which also shows up on the scale as weight loss.
The traditional lower-fat, calorie-controlled diet
Most medical experts recommend a diet that's low in saturated fat and calories, while being moderate to high in complex carbohydrates. The Dietary Guidelines for Americans, developed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), outlines several guidelines for better health:
* Eat a variety of foods to get the energy, protein, vitamins, minerals and fiber you need for good health.
* Balance the food you eat with physical activity — maintain or improve your weight to reduce your chances of having high blood pressure, heart disease, a stroke, certain cancers and diabetes.
* Select a diet low in sugar. A diet high in sugar has too many calories and too few nutrients for most people.
* Choose a diet low in salt to help reduce your risk of high blood pressure.
* Eat plenty of grain products, vegetables and fruits to provide you with needed vitamins, minerals, fiber and complex carbohydrates, and to help lower your intake of fat.
* Choose a diet low in fat, saturated fat and cholesterol to reduce your risk of heart attack and certain types of cancer, and to help you maintain a healthy weight.
* Drink alcohol in moderation. Alcohol supplies calories, but little or no nutrients.
Low-carbohydrate diet: The upside
People, especially meat lovers, like eating the food on the low-carbohydrate diet — at least for a while. They also report that eating these foods suppresses their appetite. A study published in the May 2003 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine compared the Atkins diet with a low-fat, low-calorie diet. Researchers found that both diets resulted in weight loss. The study also found that those people who followed the Atkins diet:
* Lost more weight, faster. This advantage was apparent for the first six months. But at one year, the difference between the Atkins group and the low-fat, low-calorie group wasn’t statistically significant.
* Improved high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol — the "good" cholesterol — and triglyceride levels. These results surprised some opponents of this diet who had maintained that a high-fat diet would negatively affect cholesterol levels.
Low-carbohydrate diet: The downside
These same researchers found that after a year, there was no significant difference in weight loss between the low-carbohydrate diet and a standard low-calorie diet. Also, sticking to a low-carbohydrate diet doesn't appear to be any easier than following other weight-loss plans. People on the Atkins diet dropped out at a similar rate as those following the low-fat diet. If dieters aren't getting the results they want — anticipated weight loss — they drop out. This suggests that the low-carbohydrate diet, like so many diets, is no easier to stick to long term. And although you may initially prefer eating the foods included in the low-carbohydrate diet plan, food choices are actually more limited and perhaps less appealing over time.
Proponents of the Atkins diet claim that ketosis helps burn fat. However, researchers found no correlation between ketosis and weight loss in the Atkins diet. Prolonged ketosis may deplete mineral stores in the bones, causing them to become porous and brittle.
Research hasn't yet determined the long-term effectiveness or risks of the low-carbohydrate diet. And there's concern in the medical community about the long-term effects of these diets on a dieter's health, especially on the heart. It's well documented that foods promoted in the low-carbohydrate diets — for example, foods high in saturated fat such as meat, butter or cream — have been shown to increase your risk of heart disease and some types of cancer. And foods restricted on these diets — for example, whole grains, vegetables and fruits — have vitamins, minerals and other nutrients that can help reduce your risk of diabetes, heart disease, cancer and other health conditions.
Bottom line: Are they safe and effective?
Do these diets work? Low-carbohydrate diets do work in the short run. But their long-term weight-loss results aren't significantly better than those of standard diets.
Are they safe? It's impossible to say because little is known about their long-term effects on heart disease, cancer and other health conditions.
Bottom line: Be wary of diets that promise a quick fix or that sound too good to be true. Aim for a long-term plan — one that offers you a lifetime of tried-and-tested health strategies. Though traditional recommendations for weight management — eating a variety of vegetables, fruits and grains, and being physically active daily — may produce slower results, they're the proven path to improved health and lasting weight loss.
ChefChiTown
New member
I wish I could find it again, but there was a study that I read which indicated that cravings stemmed from the bodys need for certain nutrients, which I found to be completely fascinating. I'm no scientist, but I'll give you a paraphrased example of what the study said...
Orange juice contains vitamin C. When we drink orange juice, our bodies are receiving vitamin C. While the orange juice passes through our mouth, it runs across taste buds on our tongue, which sends signals to our brain, deciphering the flavor and what we should be tasting. Then, once the orange juice reaches our stomach and begins its course through our digestive system, our brain receives signals that our bodies are receiving nutrients. In this case, vitamin C.
During this process, our brain is making a connection between the two (the taste and the nutritional result). So, when our bodies are in need or vitamin C, our brains will send S.O.S. signals to our bodies in the form of cravings for orange juice.
I don't know, I just found that study to be absolutely fascinating. I mean, yes, there are obvious emotional connections and hormonal connections to cravings as well (as they are just another form of the brain putting two and two together, which results in an emotional or hormonal connection), but I think cravings are much more than that. The best phrase in the whole study that I read was something along the lines of "When you are dehydrated, do you not crave water?" There's just something about our bodies sending cravings for nutritional purposes that I find to be amazing.
alphaX
New member
Yep, I have been on a medium carb diet while being in basic training in the Army and I did not lose weight as nearly as fast as I did on a no-grain, no potato diet. OK, I was also building muscle in the Army, but the fat layer on top didn't shrink that much.
Sounds good on paper, from a simplistic perspective. The glitch in the matrix occurs when insulin spikes, preventing your body from burning stored fat even while in caloric deficit (starvation).
Burning fat more steadily means day after day, night after night. It doesn't mean at certain hours of the day... No, you don't burn fat when your body needs it, no matter what you eat. If your insulin is high, you won't burn fat at all, despite being in caloric deficit. You will simply starve.
It is not humanly possible to burn 7000 kcal per day with exercise. If you lead a normal life, you can budget 1 hour a day for exercise. Even if you exercise 4 hours a day, your body can not get past the effects of eating 500g of simple carbs - you might break even if you're lucky.
If I fluctuated 4kg, I'd be damned concerned! But 2kg is ok by me.
I didn't religiously count them, but here's the thing - I didn't eat any less per day than I did when I was 35 BMI, and I still lost 1-1.5kg per week, every week. This only by stopping grains and potatoes.
Jeanette401
New member
So... I agree that technically your body doesn't need carbohydrates. It needs protein and a rather small amount of essential fatty acids (EFAs). About 10 standard fish oil capsules a day will cover your actual physiological need for the EFAs.
That is the concept behind what's called a Protein Sparing Modified Fast - eat nothing but lean meat, fish oil pills, and fibrous low calorie veggies (and probably a multi vitamin) to cover your bare minimum nutritional needs. This is also a diet that generally ends up between 500 and 1000 calories a day, and is definitely on the extreme side.
However... the whole idea that you can't lose weight while eating grains because of insulin is something I've never seen any evidence to support. Some people react well to a low carb diet. Some people have the opposite reaction and feel miserable while low carbing. Being in ketosis is not a magic wand that causes fat loss. However, it is easier to get 'enough' protein with low calories if you cut back on fat and/or carbs. Which is why studies show that if you hold protein constant, low fat and low carb diets perform similarly.
There are people who go low carb and lose zero weight. There are those who lose a ton. I lost 70 lbs on Atkins, but it was hard to maintain strictly long term. (I was on it for 5 years). Since switching to a more moderate approach I've broken a plateau that lasted for years, and even had a weekly weight loss as high as when I weighed 200+ lbs. This happened even though that week I had Indian food including the nan bread and rice and a pastry dessert with honey. Maybe I had an insulin spike, or maybe the protein & fat with the rest of the meal kept insulin steady, who knows. But if it did spike, it didn't prevent my body from dropping fat when I was in a caloric deficit.
So, point is, if low carb works for you - more power to you!
Some people do much better with reduced carbs, especially simple carbs, and if it works, great. However, writing everything off as being 'grains & potatoes = insulin, and insulin leads to fat' is a gross over simplification and doesn't benefit those who actually fare better on a more moderate carb approach.
That is the concept behind what's called a Protein Sparing Modified Fast - eat nothing but lean meat, fish oil pills, and fibrous low calorie veggies (and probably a multi vitamin) to cover your bare minimum nutritional needs. This is also a diet that generally ends up between 500 and 1000 calories a day, and is definitely on the extreme side.
However... the whole idea that you can't lose weight while eating grains because of insulin is something I've never seen any evidence to support. Some people react well to a low carb diet. Some people have the opposite reaction and feel miserable while low carbing. Being in ketosis is not a magic wand that causes fat loss. However, it is easier to get 'enough' protein with low calories if you cut back on fat and/or carbs. Which is why studies show that if you hold protein constant, low fat and low carb diets perform similarly.
There are people who go low carb and lose zero weight. There are those who lose a ton. I lost 70 lbs on Atkins, but it was hard to maintain strictly long term. (I was on it for 5 years). Since switching to a more moderate approach I've broken a plateau that lasted for years, and even had a weekly weight loss as high as when I weighed 200+ lbs. This happened even though that week I had Indian food including the nan bread and rice and a pastry dessert with honey. Maybe I had an insulin spike, or maybe the protein & fat with the rest of the meal kept insulin steady, who knows. But if it did spike, it didn't prevent my body from dropping fat when I was in a caloric deficit.
So, point is, if low carb works for you - more power to you!
Some people do much better with reduced carbs, especially simple carbs, and if it works, great. However, writing everything off as being 'grains & potatoes = insulin, and insulin leads to fat' is a gross over simplification and doesn't benefit those who actually fare better on a more moderate carb approach.
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Harold14370
New member
My body keeps sending me SOS signals for the essential nutrients in ice cream, potato chips, and jellybeans.