WSJ Article Says You Can Be Obese at a Normal Weight. Shocked?
- Thread starter LoseWeightNYC
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LoseWeightNYC
New member
There are studies in rats showing that starvation stops the spread of both lupus and cancer
@ChefChiTown I know that he has hyperinsulinemia because he is 400 lbs. The body cannot put on that kind of weight without elevated insulin levels.
Grass is food for cows. They have 8 stomachs to fully digest grass and any other cellulose containing item. Humans are capable of surviving short term on plants, but long term they cause disease.
Just so we're clear, when I say nutritionally void I mean they have basically no fat or protein. They have some micronutrients, but again, totally unnecessary for someone on a healthy diet containing adequate amounts of meat.
Jericho
New member
I can't believe I'm being pulled into this again. Hey, NYC. When the hell did you become my doctor? MY doctor..MINE..did full blood work on me. I have the copy! Guess what? MY INSULIN WAS NORMAL! Completely normal. Not even borderline. I'm getting a little pissed that you are stating I must have something cause of my weight even though I have PROOF otherwise.
PS: Cows have 4 stomachs. Not 8..less you are talking about mutant cows. Cows are ruminants, members of the suborder Ruminantia (order Artiodactyla). Other members of this suborder are the pronghorns, giraffes, deer, antelopes, sheep, and goats. Most ruminants have a four-chambered stomach. (Camels and some other ruminants, however, have a three-chambered stomach.)
The first chamber is the large rumen (or paunch). The next two are the reticulum and the omasum (psalterium or manyplies). These first three chambers are believed to be derived from the esophagus. The last chamber is the abomasum (or reed), which corresponds to the stomach of other mammals.
The combined four-chambered stomach is big. In the domestic ox (Bos taurus) the whole stomach occupies nearly three-quarters of the abdominal cavity. In medium sized cattle, the rumen by itself can hold between 25 to 75 gallons. The rumen grows large in early life after the changeover from a milk diet.
Ruminants eat fast and store large quantities of grass or foliage in the rumen, where it softens. Many species of minute protozoans and bacteria live without free oxygen in the rumen. These little animals and bacteria digest the cellulose in the plant material, thereby releasing the contents of the plant cells for digestion by the cow. Large amounts of saliva get secreted into the rumen to further the digestion.
The action of the various microbes produces various substances, including fatty acids which are absorbed through the rumen wall. In addition, any protein is converted into fatty acids and ammonia; the ammonia and other simple nitrogen-containing substances are used by the micro-organisms for their own cell-protein synthesis.
After the plant material is processed in the rumen, it is later regurgitated. This material is now called cud, and the ruminant chews it again. The additional chewing breaks down the cellulose content, which is difficult to digest, even more. The regurgitation and chewing of the cud is called rumination.
The chewed cud goes directly to the other chambers of the stomach (the reticulum, omasum, and abomasum, in that order). Additional digestion, with the aid of various essential microorganisms, continues in these other chambers. For example, in the omasum, some fatty acids and 60-70 percent of the water are absorbed. In the abomasum gastric juice containing hydrochloric acid is secreted, as in an ordinary mammalian stomach, futher digesting the food. Also, those micro-organisms that used the ammonia and other nitrogen substances from protein in the rumen, actually get digested by the ruminant in the abomasum and small intestine, thereby providing the cow with protein.
So yeah...4 stomachs.
I also pointed out the facts about grass fed meat and you haven't really responded (as you haven't most of my answers)..but I noticed something interestin..you said healthy diet containing adequate amounts of meat. Holy cow (no pun intended) but you just said what we have been saying.
A HEALTHY DIET WITH ADEQUATE AMOUNT OF MEAT. While the protein doesn't have to be meat, the basic of your statement is the same. A healthy diet is a balance of foods. You don't cut fat out cause the body needs that fat. You don't cut carbs cause your body needs them. People are overweight cause thier choices in food are poor and/or they don't exercise. This is science fact.
But you won't reply to my facts or statements.
PS: 16 pounds in 4 weeks eating pasta, meat, vegs, fruit, sweets, fast foods and homecooked meals. I've eaten processed foods and I drink diet soda and tea. You how? I cut how many calories I took in. so bite me meatboy.
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clever_plant
New member
That starvation stops the spread of cancer, or slows it down, should be obvious to anyone who has any basic understanding of cancer, but hey.. cancer isn't an auto immune disease so... point being? Besides, I'm pretty sure we have better ways of treating cancer than starving ourselves, then I'm no oncologist, but then... doctors might mostly be wrong anyways.. right?
Lupus... so... lets say I take your word for it without you showing me any of these studies, not that I am but hey... for the sake of argument... you do realize that even IF we could establish causality between starving rats, and lupus in rats not worsening (btw, lupus doesn't spread, it worsens, it is an autoimmune disease.. the immune system doesn't suddenly go on vacation new places like cancer cells do) you do understand that that doesn't mean it will have any effect in humans right?
I mean, there are literally tons of paper thrown out each year, if not month, filled with successful animal studies that ended up not being translateable to the human organism... it proves nothing.
So... where are these human studies showing that starvation stops cancer from spreading and lupus from worsening... oh... you say they don't exist? oh... so... let us see if there is any registered research going on.. that is weird.. I can't find any... hmm... so... are you just pulling these claims out your ass?
cerad
New member
Wow. Someone must have skipped their reiki therapy.
clever_plant
New member
no no, jericho is an astout follower of reiki therapy, it is simply healthy protein anger, it comes from not being able to eat four dishes of pasta every day.
Jericho
New member
I had Amy get me my insulin number from about 3 months ago from the blood test.
It was 100 on the nose. 106 is the area they start looking...so..you are wrong.
And before you argue that is on the border, listen to this. It was not a fasting number, it was done about 2 hours of eating. Under 120 is normal after 1 to 2 hours of a meal.
But let's say it was borderline. According to you, I should be much higher just because I weighed 400 pounds.
It was 100 on the nose. 106 is the area they start looking...so..you are wrong.
And before you argue that is on the border, listen to this. It was not a fasting number, it was done about 2 hours of eating. Under 120 is normal after 1 to 2 hours of a meal.
But let's say it was borderline. According to you, I should be much higher just because I weighed 400 pounds.
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San2
Mod
Starting weight nearly 370 lbs, bloodtests revealed that my insulin levels were too LOW. Changed eating habits and did moderate exercise, mainly cardio. Diet included a large part of carbs (probably 45-50%).
16 months later 120 lbs less, and perfect insulin levels.
And I'm still losing.
Please explain. Don't send me a link to some phoney, 60 year old study, or throw big words at me that you probably just copied and pasted from said study anyway. Explain in your own words.
Thank you.
16 months later 120 lbs less, and perfect insulin levels.
And I'm still losing.
Please explain. Don't send me a link to some phoney, 60 year old study, or throw big words at me that you probably just copied and pasted from said study anyway. Explain in your own words.
Thank you.
KaraCooks
New member
Bahahahhaah. Oh this thread just gets funnier and funnier.
So "nutritionally void" really means .. um ... "doesn't contain nutrients I understand or know anything about so I'm going to consider them useless"
So you're saying that
Vitamin C
Niacin
Vitamin B1
Vitamin B2
Vitamin B6 - 0.097 mg
Pantothenic Acid
Folate
Vitamin A
Vitamin K
Vitamin E
are all "totally unnecessary"?
So uh .. have you ever heard of scurvy? You know, that disease that sailors and soliders used to get because they lived on meals of preserved meat and nothing else? And they became vitamin C deficient, causing their gums to bleed, their teeth to fall out, general weakness, and, in extreme cases, death?
Right. Honestly, I've resisted this for a really long time and as a Mod, I probably shouldn't go here, but I can't just sit here any more. I hope any newbies who have made it this far truly understand how incredibly ignorant you are of the most basic facts of nutrition. I hope that no one takes your incredibly BAD and potentially dangerous advice - and I feel really sorry for your clients who are being SCAMMED by someone who has no understanding of nutrition or how the body works.
Jeanette401
New member
ROFL! Well remember, he did say he occassionally eats carbs after workouts to restore his glycogen stores. So maybe that + vitamins keeps him above scurvy levels
LoseWeightNYC said:
And you're welcome to argue points I didn't make over and over again if it makes you feel better
But you agreed that you can gain BF on a zero carb diet. You just assert that you can't gain 'too much' but have no explanation for how the body would know it had 'enough' body fat. Hint - the amount of insulin you get as a response from eating protein does not go down just because you've got higher BF.You may also want to look into the glycemic index. Several vegetables - such as asparagus - have pretty much the same GI as a nice sirloin. So they produce the same insulin spike.
You're only touching on a small part of hunger. There's a lot more to hunger than just insulin - you really should look into things like leptin and grehlin and probably other things that I can't think of right now because I don't pretend to be a hunger expert.LoseWeightNYC said:
LoseWeightNYC said:
Er. Look at the midwest? Because... why? What's wrong with it? Plus do you know how many people can be fed from an acre of land with corn vs an acre of land with grass fed cattle? I also admit that I'm unaware of what horrible things the Greeks and Romans did to the environment.
And to Jericho... I know you were probably right earlier, but, but...
ChefChiTown
New member
I weighed nearly 300 lbs not too long ago. Would you please be kind enough to tell me what diseases and disorders I have? I'm too busy to make an appointment with my doctor and have proper medical testing done, but I figured I would just ask you for a diagnosis, as you are obviously just as reliable and accurate as thorough medical testing and the results that come with it.
Surely, you can't be serious. You just can't be.
Hyperinsulinemia is just another way of saying that someone has too much insulin in their blood. Your body will create too much insulin due to a variety of causes, such as insulin resistance syndrome, diabetes, certain heart complications, neoplasm, high blood pressure and cancer. Does a person's weight effect those things? Yes, absolutely. And, it would be ignorant to assume otherwise. But, just because a person weighs a lot does not mean that they definitely have hyperinsulinemia. They are just more at risk.
Obese people have a higher risk of having a heart attack, but not every single 400 lb person has had one.
Obese people have a higher risk of developing diabetes, but not every single 400 lb person has it.
Obese people have a higher risk of having a stroke, but not every single 400 lb person has suffered one.
Etc.
Your display of arrogance and overall lack of information as a so-called "expert" is exactly why people get more help from free online weight loss forums (such as this one), as opposed to paying morons like you hefty sums of money just to drop a few pounds.
And cows are food for people. Thanks for proving my point and supporting my argument.
But, while we're here...
You just said, and I quote - "humans are capable of surviving short term on plants, but long term they cause disease". You have also said that you recommend that people eat an all meat, grass fed diet. I'm sure you already know this, being an expert and all, but humans are capable of surviving short term on meats, but long term they cause disease.
And, an all meat diet can cause a variety of other problems in the human body as well. Such as...
- All meat diets are high in protein. Too much protein in your body will create a build up of toxic ketones. Toxic ketones can build up from eating too much protein and not enough of other essential nutrients and vitamins, which causes your kidneys to go into overdrive, expelling as much of the toxicity from your body as possible. During this process, your kidneys will also be expelling abnormal amounts of water from your body, causing you to go into severe dehydration. Dehydration, as well all know (well, maybe not you) can put large amounts of stress on your heart. During this process, your body will also lose calcium from your bones and your muscle mass will decrease.
- All meat diets are extremely low in carbohydrates. When the body doesn't have carbohydrates to use as fuel, it uses it's stored fat for an energy source. When your fat is gone, your body will literally begin to shut down, as it has no form of an adequate energy source. Your body will eventually shut down and die.
- Since all meat diets are high in protein and low in carbohydrates, the build up of toxic ketones (the ones I mentioned before) will begin to damage both your liver and kidneys. The toxic ketones disrupt your body's balance of alkalines and acids, which causes acidosis.
- The build up of toxic ketones, when reaching a certain level, can cause both your mind and body to shut down, putting you into a comatose state. That coma can lead to death.
Also, there are people in this world that eat all meat diets. Some of those people are Eskimoes, as the protein they consume helps their bodies to adapt to the cold weather that they have to endure. So, if they are eating your recommended all meat diet, then one would assume that they have less health issues than others and, stemming from their good health, would live longer, correct? But, that's not the case.
- The average life expectancy of an Eskimo has been documented anywhere between 45 and 60 years of age.
- The average life expectancy of the average United States citizen is 78 years of age.
If they are so much healthier than us, why do they die much earlier than we do? It's because eating an all meat diet is an idiotic way to live. Idiotic and extremely unhealthy. But, don't take it from me. Let's just ask the American Heart Association what they think of high-protein diets...
Oh, now they're only unnecessary for people who eat adequate amounts of meat? First, they were a "useless" food, as if nobody on the face of the earth would need them, but now they're only unnecessary for people who eat adequate amounts of meat? So, now you're saying that they are a useful food, but only to people who don't have enough meat in their diet? I don't get it. If you're going to make an argument, then stick with it. Don't change your mind and backtrack all over your words. But, if that's what you want to do, and you're going to keep taking one step backwards during all of your rebuttals, allow me to save us all some time and just skip to the end of this part of the conversation, where you will say...
"Vegetables are totally unnecessary for someone on a healthy diet containing adequate amounts of meat, grains, dairy, legumes, fruits and vegetables."
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Jeanette401
New member
Interestingly, I just looked up the Inuit diet on wikipedia (I know, it's just wikipedia, but still!) Here's a tidbit about their nutrition.
So... as long as you're eating raw seal brains and livers... you won't get scurvy. But you can also throw in some of those counter productive plants to help out! ... Does the all grass fed beef diet include grass fed beef brains?
Incidentally, I'm reading Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human and it's referencing the guy NYC brought up doing the all meat diet (Villehoff?) - and it has quotes from him about the Inuits yummily snatching up frozen marrow from a year old caribou completely uncaring of the maggots etc. Apparently in cold weather climates bacteria is not a big deal, so rotting meat is ok...
So... as long as you're eating raw seal brains and livers... you won't get scurvy. But you can also throw in some of those counter productive plants to help out! ... Does the all grass fed beef diet include grass fed beef brains?
Incidentally, I'm reading Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human and it's referencing the guy NYC brought up doing the all meat diet (Villehoff?) - and it has quotes from him about the Inuits yummily snatching up frozen marrow from a year old caribou completely uncaring of the maggots etc. Apparently in cold weather climates bacteria is not a big deal, so rotting meat is ok...
nothingnowhere
New member
wow wtf this has been the most entertaining thing i have read all day what a load of bs
Jeanette401
New member
I don't know Jericho. I believe the Inuits are supposed to have a low incidence of heart disease despite being higher weight (how do they get that nice layer of subcutaneous fat with their limited insulin production anyway?)
However, I believe the Okinawans are touted as being the 'healthiest' in terms of lifespan and disease incidence, and they eat a good amount of rice and other starchy foods. (I may be wrong on who is supposed to be the healthiest, it's hard to find reliable sources about that kind of thing)
However, I believe the Okinawans are touted as being the 'healthiest' in terms of lifespan and disease incidence, and they eat a good amount of rice and other starchy foods. (I may be wrong on who is supposed to be the healthiest, it's hard to find reliable sources about that kind of thing)
Without even getting into the research, I've helped literally scores of clients who sought my help due to a lack of weight loss despite a prolonged, vigilant avoidance of carbs. If you honestly don't think you can put on fat by sustaining an unused caloric surplus from fat & protein, then you have plenty to learn. On the scientific research front, you obviously haven't done your homework. Asking for a study showing fat gain with <50g CHO/d is rather silly because there are no controlled interventions specifically testing the effects of HYPERcaloric/low-carb diets.
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