WSJ Article Says You Can Be Obese at a Normal Weight. Shocked?

[Holly88]

This thread is muchos amusing... I kind of hope it never dies and yet I fear I may melt down to a babbling mess of grass fed beef if I don't stop reading...

 

[Jeanette401]

LOL - rush some more ketones to your brain, quick!

Hearing that veggies are counter productive is about as funny as the guy who posted that chicken was one of the top 7 foods that caused weight gain

 

[clever_plant]

cannot resist....

Let me just link three things to you all

First, the wiki page on internal starvation:
Internal starvation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And on no-carb diets as proposed by mr stefansson
No-carbohydrate diet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then the wiki page on the amazing Reiki touch energy therapy:
Reiki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just saying.. this reiki stuff seems way more researched and stuff... maybe we should like.. all go on a reiki weight loss therapeutic diet... touch... thing? perhaps... grass fed.. reiki... or like.. reiki touch therapy.. but with grass?

 

[LoseWeightNYC]

1) Do you have any sources to support this? If these root vegetables and berries were unnecessary and counter productive, why would they bother to spend all that time and effort gathering them instead of just looking for more eggs?

2) I never said anything about 0% body fat. However, high fiber vegetables and fruit also have a much smaller and more consistent insulin response than say, table sugar. How is protein okay, but these bad?

Realistically, if you are getting insulin as a result of protein, either you can gain body fat or you can't. If you can gain body fat, how could your body prevent you from gaining an unhealthy amount? I think you're confusing the effect of satiety from high protein diets with insulin response. However, they are completely different things and whether the insulin in your system comes from meat or vegetables doesn't affect protein satiety.

3) If Atkins allows vegetables, how could it prove anything about the nutritional diet of a people without vegetables? And you still haven't given any evidence that vegetables are counter productive other than "I said so" - and in my case, they have led to better lipid panels and allowed me to break a 5 year plateau.

4) No, I was not eating grass fed beef, but I was eating under 50g of carbs a day. I'm not sure what the grass fed part has to do with it. Are you saying that a diet with carbs and grain fed beef is better than a diet with no carbs and grain fed beef?

The body doesn't just break down all excess protein into glucose, it breaks down protein into glucose as necessary, there's a major difference. It is why you can't protein your way to obesity.

Vegetables are carbohydrates, so when you're saying that you were eating less than 50 grams of carbs, are you including those?

The reason that the grass fed is relevant is that grain fed beef has a 20:1 ratio of omega 6mega 3 fatty acids. Of course you're going to have inflammation problems when you're not getting enough omega 3s. Since I deal mostly with finance executives and lawyers, they are often going out to steakhouses for client dinners, so I always recommend that they supplement their intake on these nights with krill oil to correct for this, but there's really no substitute for the real thing. Also, to the point that I made about vegetarians, eating grain fed beef is even worse than eating a vegetarian diet when it comes to environmental sustainability. This happens to be really important to me, which is why I vote with my dollars.

Maybe I just really dislike vegetables, but I find it hard to imagine enjoying a diet of salads and lean chicken breasts over a nice juicy 20 day wet aged rib eye topped with a salt and pepper rub and some grass fed butter. Or 6 eggs from vegetable fed organic free range eggs fried in some grass fed butter. Or even a delicious dutch chocolate iso pure low carb protein shake with some melted butter and coconut milk mixed in. This combine with the whole NEVER being hungry thing just really works for me, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Jericho]

It's cute, you're like the vegetarian who thinks she's saving the planet, but she's really causing the destruction of ecosystems; draining of rivers, lakes and ponds; depletion of top soil; and desertification of continents.

Hi, Kara is a mod..show a bit more respect kid.

 

[LoseWeightNYC]

LOL - rush some more ketones to your brain, quick!

Hearing that veggies are counter productive is about as funny as the guy who posted that chicken was one of the top 7 foods that caused weight gain

Vegetables are counterproductive. That is why an 800 calorie a day all meat diet is satiating while that same diet with an additional 400 calories of fruits and vegetables causes starvation mode and ravenous hunger.

 

[Holly88]

Just saying.. this reiki stuff seems way more researched and stuff... maybe we should like.. all go on a reiki weight loss therapeutic diet... touch... thing? perhaps... grass fed.. reiki... or like.. reiki touch therapy.. but with grass?

I'm sold - come on everyone - to the nearest local reiki grass field!

 

[Jericho]

I know this is difficult but I really think constant response trying to change his mind does no good but to let him pick and choose his comments.

I don't want us giving him any more credit to make him look like an expert. Not everyone who comes to the boards has the knowledge of Steve. They want our support and help.

He is a lost cause. It is the very nature of insanity..doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

 

[clever_plant]

i think he just needs some reiki therapy

 

[KaraCooks]

Maybe I just really dislike vegetables, but I find it hard to imagine enjoying a diet of salads and lean chicken breasts

See, this is the crux of the whole matter. Most people do this - they look for data that supports what they WANT to hear, while ignoring data that invalidates their personal bias and likes/dislikes.

That way they can eat like a 3 year old pitching a tantrum over his veggies and claim that it's really the BETTER way to eat and everyone else is just ignorant and unhealthy.

I actually love a big salad for a meal - with dark leafy greens, all manner of chopped veg, some grilled chicken in a spicy rub, and some crumbled feta or blue cheese. That is my idea of a really yummy meal ... and quite filling and satisfying. In fact it's what I had for dinner just a couple of nights ago and I really enjoyed it.

 

[LoseWeightNYC]

See, this is the crux of the whole matter. Most people do this - they look for data that supports what they WANT to hear, while ignoring data that invalidates their personal bias and likes/dislikes.

That way they can eat like a 3 year old pitching a tantrum over his veggies and claim that it's really the BETTER way to eat and everyone else is just ignorant and unhealthy.

I actually love a big salad for a meal - with dark leafy greens, all manner of chopped veg, some grilled chicken in a spicy rub, and some crumbled feta or blue cheese. That is my idea of a really yummy meal ... and quite filling and satisfying. In fact it's what I had for dinner just a couple of nights ago and I really enjoyed it.

Actually, I would love nothing more than to eat pasta three meals a day like I used to. Unfortunately, it gave me scleroderma and a heart transplant.

 

[clever_plant]

Actually, I would love nothing more than to eat pasta three meals a day like I used to. Unfortunately, it gave me scleroderma and a heart transplant.

So... you had an auto immune disease and you blame... pasta? and now you're going to claim that eating all beef cured your auto immune disease without the use of immune supressants... right?

 

[Jeanette401]

The body doesn't just break down all excess protein into glucose, it breaks down protein into glucose as necessary, there's a major difference. It is why you can't protein your way to obesity.

Why do you keep arguing with things I didn't say? I didn't say all protein turned into glucose - I asked how the body would know to stop adding fat? Answer: apparently you don't have one.

Vegetables are carbohydrates, so when you're saying that you were eating less than 50 grams of carbs, are you including those?

Yes, in Atkins you count all the carbs. You subtract out fiber, but as I was eating under 20g of 'net' carbs and wasn't eating any food that had a higher than 2:1 ratio of carbs to fiber, 50g is a safe guess, and well under the 100g limit for ketosis.

The reason that the grass fed is relevant is that grain fed beef has a 20:1 ratio of omega 6mega 3 fatty acids. Of course you're going to have inflammation problems when you're not getting enough omega 3s. Since I deal mostly with finance executives and lawyers, they are often going out to steakhouses for client dinners, so I always recommend that they supplement their intake on these nights with krill oil to correct for this, but there's really no substitute for the real thing. Also, to the point that I made about vegetarians, eating grain fed beef is even worse than eating a vegetarian diet when it comes to environmental sustainability. This happens to be really important to me, which is why I vote with my dollars.

So why would my inflammation issues decrease when I stopped doing Atkins if the reason is the EFA ratios? Unless you're saying that zero carb only helps if you're eating grass fed beef. Is that what you're saying? (This does not get in to your lack of proof that eating vegetables is worse for the environment than meat)

Maybe I just really dislike vegetables, but I find it hard to imagine enjoying a diet of salads and lean chicken breasts over a nice juicy 20 day wet aged rib eye topped with a salt and pepper rub and some grass fed butter. Or 6 eggs from vegetable fed organic free range eggs fried in some grass fed butter. Or even a delicious dutch chocolate iso pure low carb protein shake with some melted butter and coconut milk mixed in.

Er. Nice strawman there. When did eating vegetables force you to eat lean chicken breasts. I never suggested a low fat diet. I am on a protein focused diet that finds both moderate fat and carbs acceptable. It's perfectly reasonable for me to have a nice rib eye rubbed with olive oil, pan seared and then roasted to a medium rare and then deglaze the pan to make a nice garlic cream sauce served over protein enriched angel hair pasta and oven roasted asparagus. Mmmmmm.

This combine with the whole NEVER being hungry thing just really works for me, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Just to repeat myself - the whole NEVER BEING HUNGRY is related to a high protein diet, not to a low carb diet. You can have a low GI diet if you have issues with insulin response, but that's not the same thing is low carb.

Vegetables are counterproductive. That is why an 800 calorie a day all meat diet is satiating while that same diet with an additional 400 calories of fruits and vegetables causes starvation mode and ravenous hunger.

Er. Say what? I eat around 800 calories a day from meat & dairy (maybe only 600 to 700, my goal is 400g+ of protein) and another 600 to 700 from fruits, seeds, nuts, grains and vegetables and I am not in starvation mode, nor have I suffered from ravenous hunger. In fact, most protein sparing modified fasts recommend stuffing yourself with low calorie vegetables to stave off hunger since they have minimal calories and minimal insulin response - so your stomach feels full, and you don't have an insulin rush...

Soooo, anyway, I think I'm up for some reiki!

Over and out!

 

[LoseWeightNYC]

So... you had an auto immune disease and you blame... pasta? and now you're going to claim that eating all beef cured your auto immune disease without the use of immune supressants... right?

No, but I will argue that from an evolutionary perspective, my genes would have been filtered out of the gene pool, and diseases like this are far too common to be random mutations in the DNA.

Furthermore, I will argue that though I did take immunosuppressive medication, I also lost about 50 lbs as a result of not being able to keep food down because of this medication, and there is evidence to suggest that starving the disease could have also been a factor.

@Jeanette The body doesn't just convert all protein into glucose spiking your insulin levels indefinitely, it converts on an as needed basis. Insulin is required to put on fat, you're welcome to keep denying this all you want, but it's a fact. Insulin does not spike any where near as quickly or as much from protein as it does from carbohydrate, you can't possibly be seriously suggesting that.

Never being hungry is actually related to low insulin levels that allow for a positive fatty acid flux into the blood stream. This is why people stop being hungry relatively quickly in fasts.

If you want proof as to how eating vegetables is worse for the environment than grass fed beef, look at the Phonecians, look at the "Fertile Crescent," look at the Romans, look at the Greeks, look at the midwest, and read "The Vegetarian Myth."

 

[clever_plant]

No, but I will argue that from an evolutionary perspective, my genes would have been filtered out of the gene pool, and diseases like this are far too common to be random mutations in the DNA.

Well yes, without medical care you would have died, true.

You do realize that not every individual that gets an auto immune disease gets it due to another random mutation right? since the genetic code that goes "this individual might get this disease, it is at least possible" is inherited, and there is a huge difference between potentially getting the disease and actually getting it, hence potentially getting it will not make you die and then your genes survive. I will agree that we're fucking with evolution since we have medicine but.. I mean... so?

Furthermore, I will argue that though I did take immunosuppressive medication, I also lost about 50 lbs as a result of not being able to keep food down because of this medication, and there is evidence to suggest that starving the disease could have also been a factor.

starving... and autoimmune disease? huh? what evidence? this is news to me, and yes, I am genuinely expressing interest, not sarcasm.

and read "The Vegetarian Myth."

read peer reviewed journals instead of fiction?

 

[Jericho]

Ok. I want to try something here.

NYC, please, in normal terms, state what your diet plan is for say 1 week. As you are saying you are an expert, please let people here know what you feel should be done to lose weight. Include exercise and food.

Here is your one chance, keeping an open mind. If you just ignore this, then you are a fraud and a troll with no real meaningful input. You will also be a coward who can't put his money where his mouth is. I've asked you to do this once, let's see if you really mean what you say.

 

[KaraCooks]

Aside:

It's perfectly reasonable for me to have a nice rib eye rubbed with olive oil, pan seared and then roasted to a medium rare and then deglaze the pan to make a nice garlic cream sauce served over protein enriched angel hair pasta and oven roasted asparagus. Mmmmmm.

Oh dear lord. I just ate, so I'm not even hungry, but this made me start to drool.
----------------------------

Actually, I would love nothing more than to eat pasta three meals a day like I used to. Unfortunately, it gave me scleroderma and a heart transplant.

Um ... uh .. huh?

Let's see, you said that veggies were useless and nutritionally void and by the way you hate them and don't understand how anyone could make a satisfying meal of them.

I said that veggies are not nutritionally void and you're sourcing data to support your own bias, and btw I love a big green salad.

You responded that you'd love to eat pasta 3x a day.

WTF does eating pasta have to do with veggies?

Do you even think about what you write? Are you arguing just to argue? Or are you really ... well, nevermind. I'm a mod and have to restrain myself.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Scott Stapp, er, I mean LoseWeightNYC...

After reading through your thread, I wasn't going to respond at first. But, a lot of people seem to be getting frustrated with you and your blatant arrogance and disrespect towards the members on this forum. I, for one, am not flustered by such attitude. So, after debating with myself for a quick nanosecond, I have come to the conclusion that I have to throw in my priceless two cents on this debate and come to the aid of my WLF friends...

So you were 400 lbs, and you did not have a disease? Excuse me, but I haven't seen your blood tests, yet I will bet all of the money I have that you had hyperinsulinemia.

I haven't seen your testicles, but I'm willing to bet that they're fairly unappealing and odd looking.

How can you possibly know that he has hyperinsulinemia or any other disease for that matter? I mean, what's next? Are you going to diagnose him with having a narrow urethra, cardiomyopothy or fibromyalgia without knowing his exact medical statistics?

Just because a person weighs 400 lbs doesn't mean that they automatically have a disease. What a ridiculous misconception on your part.

So you've been losing weight for a month and now you're the expert? Alright.

So, you can quote things that you probably found on Wikipedia and now you're the expert? I've read through each and every one of your posts and I've seen many, many errors on your part. Some expert you are.

I am calling myself an expert. People pay me money to help them lose weight and keep it off. As much as $50 a pound to be exact.

Oh, I see. You call yourself an expert, so you must be an expert. I get it. Well, if that's all it takes, then I'm a bear. RAAAAWRRRR!!! See? I'm a bear. And, even though I'm a bear, I'm still more educated than you on weight loss in humans.

And, if you are so good at what you do and you make $50 per pound...I'm sorry..."as much as $50" per pound of weight loss that your clients achieve, then I would imagine you would be so exceptionally rich that you wouldn't have to come here to WLF just to strut your so-called professional knowledge around in front of us lowly fatties, just to boost your ego. Sorry, but I don't buy it. You don't impress me and neither does your fly-by-night information.

I actually do recommend an all meat (grass fed) diet. Vegetables are useless "food" totally void of nutrition that make you hungrier.

You do realize how stupid you sound, right? No? You don't? SIGH, alright, I'll explain it to you then...

You claim that vegetables are useless to humans as a food, correct? Just making sure. Ok, but then you also say in this exact statement that you recommend an all meat, GRASS FED diet. Umm, if vegetables were so useless to animals, then why would you suggest we eat an all GRASS FED diet? The nutrients from the grass would be feeding the animals that we eat, giving them the nutrition that they need in order to survive and strive as healthy animals. When we eat those said animals, we would be receiving nutrients based off of what their diet was, which, in your recommended case, would be GRASS. Therefore, making that grass extremely useful to use humans, as we are essentially getting nutrients that stem from it in the first place.

FYI - I am well aware that grass is technically not a vegetable. In fact, it is a plant. But, the nutritional value of grass is nearly the equivalent of plenty of vegetables.

- Grass contains vitamins A, B, C, E and K, calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium and more.
- Carrots contain vitamins A, B, C, E and K, calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium and more.
- Cucumbers contain vitamins A, B, C, E and K, calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium and more.
- Peas contain vitamins A, B, C, E and K, calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium and more.
- Asparagus contains vitamins A, B, C, E and K, calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium and more.

Etc.

Our bodies actually are not designed to work on a "variety of sources," they are designed to work optimally on meat and fat, in ketosis. There's an enormous body of science that proves this to be the case, and I know hundreds of people who would agree with this statement anecdotally from personal experience.

There's also an enormous amount of science that proves otherwise. Our bodies were not originally intended to be eating the way that we currently do. For instance, we shouldn't be cooking our meat. We should be eating it raw. But, over eons of time, humans slowly evolved and our bodies changed. As we began to cook our meat more and more, our bodies evolved along with the change in our diets. It's called adaption and it was necessary in order for our species to survive along with our evolution of cooking our food.

And, our body needs a variety of sources to survive in a healthy manner. We need water, correct? We need protein, correct? We need potassium, correct? We need calcium, correct? We need iron, correct? Hell, we need a lot of things in order to survive. But, there isn't some single magical food that we can eat which contains the necessary amounts of each and every vitamin and/or nutrient that a human's body needs in order to survive. This is exactly why we do need a variety of sources in order to be healthy.

Science isn't needed for you to know that. It's called common sense. But, from reading your posts, and having a quick gander at your man bangs, I'm sensing that's something you lack.

So you obviously have no understanding at all of heart disease. Heart disease is caused by vascular inflammation, which is caused primarily by carbs and secondarily by extended periods of low impact exercise.

You obviously have no understanding of heart disease. Heart disease isn't caused by one, single thing. It's caused by a huge number of things. And, I find this part of my rebuttal to be completely fitting, as you started this thread by posting an article from the Mayo Clinic. Well, here's some information that proves you wrong. Oh, and guess what? It's from the same Mayo Clinic that you like to rely on so much...

The causes of heart disease vary by type of heart disease.

Over time, however, too much pressure in your arteries can make the walls thick and stiff — sometimes restricting blood flow to your organs and tissues. This process is called arteriosclerosis, or hardening of the arteries. Atherosclerosis is the most common form of this disorder. Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease, and it's caused by an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking. All of these are major risk factors for developing atherosclerosis and, in turn, cardiovascular disease.

Causes of valvular heart diseases
There are many causes of diseases of your heart valves. Four valves within your heart keep blood flowing in the right direction. You may be born with valvular disease, or the valves may be damaged by such conditions as rheumatic fever, infections (infectious endocarditis), connective tissue disorders, and certain medications or radiation treatments for cancer.

And much, much more.

3. Not all calories are the same

Yes, they are. All calories are the same. How you get those calories is not. 100 calories from fat is still 100 calories. 100 calories from protein is still 100 calories. 100 calories from eating horse shit (which you obviously do a lot of, as you are spewing nothing but horse shit all over this thread) is still 100 calories. The nutrients contained within the food items that provided you with those calories may be different, but a calorie is a calorie is a calorie.

@Steve I'm going to let you win on the muscle tissue thing because I don't know that much about how much energy muscle tissue uses

I don't know what acylation stimulation protein is or how it may or may not related to weight gain

Some expert you are. You claim to be an expert, yet you don't even know about the energy usage of muscles, what acetylation is or how it may or may not be related to weight gain? Yet another reason why every single member here who is reading your posts is also laughing at everything you have to say...and also, your girly haircut.

It's cute, you're like the vegetarian who thinks she's saving the planet, but she's really causing the destruction of ecosystems; draining of rivers, lakes and ponds; depletion of top soil; and desertification of continents.

No, you know what's cute? How you come up in here acting like God's gift to fat people when you obviously don't know the first thing about losing weight or how to help people achieve such a goal. For an expert, you certainly don't know jack shit. Judging from your douchey looking avatar, you obviously know where all of the overly effeminate hair salons are in your neighborhood, but you still don't know jack shit about fat people, weight loss or how to put the two together.

Vegetables are counterproductive.

...then take the cucumber out of your butt.

 

[clever_plant]

I'm laughing so hard I woke up my girlfriend who angrily told me to shut up which made me laugh harder... then I realized how much of a geek I am.. then I cried a little... in a manly way... and laughed more... tis all good.

 

[KaraCooks]

You know Chef - your posts are usually funny and crazy and wild (and sometimes profane) .. but every now and then you get serious and when you do ... it makes me remember that you're wicked smaht (as a friend of mine would say).

Go you.