Why is this hard?

[e72]

The battle within.

For me it goes back to a childhood of potato chips, ice cream, and pasta, and a weekly splurge of $20.00 worth of penny candy ate in one afternoon. I also believe the lack of structure as a child has afflicted my ability to stick with a schedule. I was very thin until I was 24, and then just begin to add the pounds every year till I blew up to 231 and I worked out and was very active until 2003, but that a whole other story. Now I'm fighting a junk food addiction amongst other issues.

 

[Steve]

Oh brother.

I am glad this thread has continued. However, people seem to have taken me for a shallow fool with the inability to understand where You are coming from.

Please.

As I said previously in this thread, I am CERTAINLY dumbing down my perspective to simply draw answers out of people. Some of the things have definitely not been my true perspective. Rather, an extremist's view to initiate conversation.

I will go back and reply to individual posts as I have time.

 

[maleficent]

Someone who has not experienced many of these factors (Steve I suspect!), and who looks at these things purely logically, and from a point of view of having healthy self esteem, will never REALLY understand the mindset of someone who struggles hard to change, even when they know what they need to do, any more than I will ever understand why my friend does not leave her partner.

Good point, Kezz...

I know the point has been raised in other topics that unless a person been down this road, it's tough for them to understand the struggle... and the counter point is generally -well if you have cancer, you don't expect your doctor to be a cancer survivor in order to treat you. Which is a valid point on a purely logical level... but for some of us - there's a mindset that makes perfect sense in our heads however flawed it might be - that is a huge obstacle to try and change...

I've been in the situation as your friend - ad this was one ofthe things I wrote about in the essay I keep quoting-and only one other person knew of the situation and really didn't understand why I stayed... at the time, I put on the front that I was tough, and didn't put up with crap from anyone (I worked n wall street you'd get eaten alive if you had any other attitude) On the inside - there was a great debate in my head that was it really so bad -I know what I had -it wasnt ideal but it was a known factor - yes it was damaging to my self esteem but it was known... Until I had enough and was ready to leave - nothing would have made me leave... I did it entirely for me. I can draw the same mindset with being grossly overweight - I know what I have - it's nt healthy but I know it. the unknown is always a scarey place.. is it a better place? that remains to be seen... I had to be ready to do it for me...

This has really been a fascinating topic - I'd love to hear more people weigh in - and I wish I really wish I could describe the mindset better to give others a better understanding... and to be understood more...

 

[Halo1]

Why do I sometimes find it hard to lose weight maintain a healthy lifestyle?

Im back in the world of reality after a whirlwind weekend I described in my diary, long story short I ate and drank waaaay to much of the wrongest kinds of foods and drinks and did no exercise to speak of. And now the scale hates me.

So I find myself contemplateing this question

Possibly because its so easy to fall back into an unhealthy lifestyle. Its everywhere and the messages come from inside the body and out that fatty foods are good. My body doesnt know there is an abundance of high calorie foods out there!

Also for me its a very social thing, if I spend all my time at home then I can control what I eat and I find the process pretty painless. If im going out a lot with people it becomes harder, since I havnt got much weight to lose I feel weird if people know im trying to lose weight.

So if im invited to a BBQ I eat the burgers and things to avoid questions of, why arent you eating? And if you go to a birthday party, who wants to be seen to refuse cake? If someone cooks you a lovely lunch you want to show that you are enjoying it rather then ask for a half a portion, makes you look ungrateful.

So that seems to be my reason, left to my own devices I can control myself, leave me with other people and some sort of percieved (on my part) peer pressure kicks in. Im sure people would be very supportive if I told them I were trying to lead a more healthy life style. But I just seem to avoid that conversation...

 

[maleficent]

I am glad this thread has continued. However, people seem to have taken me for a shallow fool with the inability to understand where You are coming from.

I don't think that you're being seen as shallow at all... or a fool for that matter...

I thought the topic was trying to gain an understanding of why it's so difficult.. and it's tough to describe... mindset and self esteem are a big part of it...

 

[Steve]

I think part of the problem for me is a lack of connection between the big picture and the immediate. I have been here a while and know that it's the daily habits and consistent changes that will make the difference. I know that I will be doing this for the rest of my life, and it's not like I'll never have pizza again. I just have to make it a very occasional treat.

But then my roommate gets a pizza and I say "well, I guess this is one of those very occasional treat times", only i say that WAY more frequently than "very occasionally." Next thing I know, every day is a treat day and I'm the exact way I was before. I never "gave up", I just got worse and worse and worse without really realizing it.

It's like I have the big picture in my mind, but when it comes to individual decisions I screw up.

Since this thread is turning into a Me vs. You situation, here's a shocker for you. I do struggle. I struggle daily. I am the only person in my world who eats the way that I do. I am the only person in my world who trains the way that I do.

I have secluded myself from the norm.

And I get shit for it. From friends, from family, co-workers, etc. They don't understand why I do what I do.

Why am I saying this in response to this particular post from Llama?

As I said before, I truly believe that much of the choices we end up making, good or bad, are derived from our internal dialog we have with ourselves. And the disconnect from the big picture and the immediate picture that Llama speaks of is a product of lack of control of your internal dialog, IMO.

Succeeding physique-wise is a matter of the law of averages. If on average, you spend more time doing what needs to be done to improve your physique, positive changes will certainly happen. If you don't, they won't.

Until I made the connection between the big picture and the immediate, whenever I faced an acute "crossroad," I would choose the path that meant "being normal."

Normal in the sense of eating crappy foods and drinking a bucket of beer because that is what all my friends were doing when we went out to dinner as a group. Or, having the brownie with a side of cheesecake after my 3 hot dogs and 2 burgers at the family picnic. Why? Because that is what the rest of my family was doing.

1. Who was I do be different? I felt deep down that by rejecting the very things that everyone else was doing, in essence, I was saying, "I am better than you." Or that I was putting myself up on a pedestal. Something I associated a lot of pain with.

2. Being different isn't easy. Fitting in is. Going along with the norms, no matter how wrong they might be, is easy.

3. I associated a lot of good things (pleasure) to the normal activities. Eating sloppy food and drinking beer every weekend with my friends was a blast. Hanging out with the fam in the backyard eating junk and playing horse shoes was never dull. When so much pleasure is associated to something, it is extremely hard to avoid. Stronger yet, was the pain that I associated with NOT doing these "normal" things.

So, getting to where I am today, mentally and physically, has been no easy path. It took a lot of effort. Effort in the sense of mental transformation more than anything. Changing the way you think and controlling the voice in your head is a serious challenge. Once you gain control of it though, IMO based on past experiences with myself and clients, choosing the "right" path becomes a whole lot easier.

Although not identical to the challenges that many of you face, still, I understand the struggle.

Instead of battling the norm of society, you are battling the norm of your past-self. Maybe I am wrong here. I am not in your shoes.

Anyhow, Llama, I think you made an excellent point.

 

[maleficent]

I think most of us do realize that you struggle steve, and it just hass to take once glance at you to know you've worked your behind off to get to hwhere you are and it's not easy...

The difference however, is you started from a point where society wouldn't have looked at you, pointed at laughed... you looked fine... it's a struggle to get to the point where we do look fine.. and in some cases it's overwhelming - If you never did another thing you'd still look fine.. If I never did another thing I'd still be obese.

I don't want this to be a you vs us thread - cripes you help more people on this forum than anyone you're like totally one of us dude and we like ya... least I do (you can even come to the slumber parties and we'll freeze yor undies and paint your toenails - -most days anyhow but in my twisted logic world there is a slight distinction between busting yur butt to look awesome and busting your butt to achieve some normalcy...

 

[Debster63]

Wow, this post is still going strong. I can relate to many of the posts about it being so dificult and falling off the wagon and bingeing, even if we know it is not the best thing for us, we still do it. Find comfort in food.

It was said about ice cream being a reward, that is sooooo true. Now I to must be able to live along side temptations without giving in. I am doing better, especially reading these posts. I would never speak about my deep feelings, thinking people would not understand that belittle it all. But reading the same things here and knowing others feel the same as I makes it better to talk and get these feelings out.

Thanks everyone. It is a difficult road to walk but having this as a place to vent, and help others, hopefully we can get to our goals.

 

[sirant]

For what its worth....

First off Steve,

I and most others here do truly respect what you do and how you do it. Bottom line. And I know I am not the only one who "really" sees what this thread was about in the first place. I know it wasn't you trying to figure out what is wrong with us and the rest of the overweight population, you were giving us a forum to answer that question for ourselves, possibly allowing us to enlighten ourselves and others along the way. It is obvious from all the posts praising it it was a good idea. Sometimes seeing what makes it hard for us, is similar to someone else's experience that has gotten over it. I know it is sometimes easier to see the other side of our particular struggle if we know somebody else made it before, so its not impossible. This thread just opened the door to let those experiences and ideas out.

Well done, once again a great post.

Sirant

 

[Steve]

Part I

My attention to read this article was brought on by the idea that Steve's mind is much like my boyfriend's...

Probably not.

the inability to grasp my inability to lose weight and be done with it. I'm constantly trying to get Jeff to understand... sending him articles, explaining it and just like I have a mental block when he says "You can" he has the same mental block when I say, "I can't". But I get all of the crap for not thinking positively.

Again, as I said in previous posts, you took my extremist's view as my belief. Not so.

I truly understand the struggles. Most people struggle every single day for the most part, with something. Maybe it is finding a good job. Maybe it is finding happiness. Maybe it is finding a date. Maybe it is losing weight.

Whatever the case may be, a struggle is a struggle. I have them, you have them, and so does most everyone else whom I know. So I do understand the struggle.

I wouldn't walk up to a clinically depressed person and ask, "What the hell mate, if you choose to be happy, you will be. Just stop being sad you big dummy."

Please, give me more credit than that.

I know that is the perspective I presented here in parts of this thread, but don't read me wrong. I like to think of myself as a mildly educated person, and thinking so irrational is not something I care to be associated with.

IMO, weight loss is one of the most serious struggles in our society today. Why?

For one, the serious, negative healthy implications obesity has on our population as a whole is alarming, to say the least. Two, our society is set up in a ridiculous fashion that makes discrimination against big people okay, which is utter bullshit. Three, the very industry that is supposed to "help" big people does nothing but hurt them for the most part. I am talking about the "weighloss" industry.

If it was as easy as educating people and showing them the "road map" one must take in order to succeed, there wouldn't be any struggles with regards to weightloss. By taking the extremist's view in this thread though, I think it uncover's the truth better. Maybe I am wrong.

Steve asked "Is it a matter of not REALLY knowing what you want? Or not knowing why"
I do know what I want. I want to be thin. I want to be a shape. A small shape. A shape that's accepted by society. A shape that gets the man of my dreams to marry me. Steve also wants to be a shape. He has his reasons. Now look at it this way, if anyone of us devoted our lives to turning our bodies into the shape of an octagon, people would think we were loons. And if you showed up at a surgeon to have this done, someone would be getting a psych consult and not a plastic surgery consult. I can guarantee that if society had no voice on what shape your body is, I would not have a want to be thin. There wouldn't be a reason. People say that diet and exercise is the healthiest way to live. I agree that being healthy is the best way to live but so is being happy. Anyone who is on this site to lose weight is unhappy about something.... which is their weight. I know my what and my why.

One man's treasure is another man's trash. Isn't that what they say? Something like that anyhow.

When I first got into this "lifestyle," it had mostly to do with vanity, and a little to do with performance. I was in grade school. And EVERYONE is pressured to look good in grade school. I was also an athlete, so lifting facilitate better performance.

However, I did not choose the route of personal training, coaching, or whatever the heck you want to call it b/c I hated that people were fat. It wasn't about making people skinny so they looked good. I TRULY believe beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. And happiness should not be dependent on fitting into the norms of society, although, sadly, for some it is.

I chose to become a coach because I had a great passion to help people be healthy and learn how to, properly. It was fueled by a few heavy relatives I had in my family who struggled. Struggled with daily living as well as happiness. Once I intimately connected myself with their struggles, I knew right then and there that this was my calling. This is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And since then, I have, in one aspect or another.

So for me, this isn't about looking "right" or "normal." For me, this is ALL about being healthy.

You say health is important, but so is happiness. Is there a happiness without health? For me, from my perspective, no. I have watched people suffer due to obesity or lack of healthy habits. A suffering that I wish upon no one.

SEE PART II BELOW

 

[TomO]

Since this thread is turning into a Me vs. You situation, here's a shocker for you. I do struggle. I struggle daily. I am the only person in my world who eats the way that I do. I am the only person in my world who trains the way that I do.

I don't take it that way, and neither should you. I think the vast majority of us here agree with what Mal said -- that you do more for more people on this board than practically anyone. And I certainly agree with Sirant -- that the real benefit of this post is to get us to look at ourselves.

To all the psychological mumbo jumbo I posted earlier, let me add one more thing that makes victory a real struggle -- the lack of good, solid, healthy information. I feel that this time around, I finally have the right information, and a good share of the credit for that goes directly to you, Coach.

Yeah, there will be some who grouse because you haven't walked a mile in their shoes. I could give a S%*T. You've given us the information we need to change our lives. You've had the patience to answer our most detailed, and sometimes ridiculous, questions. You've challenged our wrong assumptions. If you're the enemy, who needs friends?

 

[Steve]

Part II

Nutrition education- I didn't realize until I was in the 7th grade WHY I was fat. And by that point I was 195lbs.. at age 12. I do believe that nutrition education should be something taught alongside hygiene. When you're young and you are on the verge of forming into a young adult, information is everything. A parent will tell a six year old that doritos make them fat but they never tell them why or how it will. That's the mistake.

I couldn't agree more with you.

My fiancé is a teacher. Some of the most influential people whom I encountered in my life were teachers. They molded my mind.

They molded my mind at a time where my mind was easily mold-able. I think education is paramount. However, we are missing the boat when it comes to integrating healthy lifestyles into that "mold."

Teaching math, English, etc is critical. But not teaching healthy living is corrupt. Our youth deserves to know.

Food addiction- It's called an addiction because it's bad. It's called an addiction because it can kill you. How many people out there collect cars? Cars are pretty and fancy... a new one can even make you feel like you're on top of the world. You've achieved something that allowed you this luxury. But cars can kill. They do EVERY SINGLE DAY. Food does make me feel good. I had a long, daunting day recently and I put one spoonful of Edy's Slow Churned French Silk in my mouth and it felt like 12 hands massaging my entire body. And who doesn't want that?

So, in your opinion, is it a neuro-chemical issue or is it an internal dialog issue?

Along the same lines, I hate that people call certain things treats or rewards. Ice cream should not be a treat or a reward. I'm not saying that it should be part of a regular diet, but like many other things, if it didn't have an elevated connotation , there wouldn't be a driving desire for it. After years of diets and what have you's, I'm going to accept ice cream. If I want it, I'll schedule it into calories for that day. If someone gets a massage on the regular and decides to lose weight, they don't cut out the massage. So why should they cut out ice cream? Reduce intake? Yes. Reduce frequency? Yes. Eliminate? No. It makes ppl obsess who already have a food obsession. When I'm not obsessing, I have crap loads more control of what I'm eating and I eat less because I'm never in fear of the container looming in the freezer.

Excellent point.

Steve quote "What is so hard? More problems with exercise or nutrition?"
Nutrition. At least for me. I hate vegetables. If you make me eat them, I will gag while trying to chew and swallow and my eyes will start to water. A very daunting task is losing weight without having veggies in my meal plan. Please, no one should write to me about veggie health benefits or tell me how terrible it is that I don't eat them. I'm one intelligent girl and I certainly know what veggies can do for a person. I WISH I liked them. I wish I liked them enough to eat them and feel like it was a mediocre dining experience. But I don't like them.

There are supplements that you should try. Greens plus comes to mind.

Steve mentioned that some people are go getters and some have mental barriers.

In reality, I think we are ALL go getters. However, some of us are go getters with mental barriers. Breakdown or transform some of those barriers and I believe you will see a go getter in action.

I used to be very much a go getter until the world shit on me and I was so exhausted from trying day after day and still not being accepted (ie good enough) that I gave up because I'm tired. My college faculty laughed at me freshman year when I said I wanted to be an opera singer. By the time I graduated college I was a first place competition award winning soprano and held the principle role in the opera. Where's my point? I think there are a lot of ppl who work hard, get told that they will never be successful, always come in second, nothing is ever good enough and they give up. Not because they are lazy but because trying your hardest and getting told it's not enough time after time is mentally wearing on a person. It makes you hate yourself.

While I understand how cruel and difficult this world can be, and the impact these things can have on one's mind, at the same time, I am all about mental toughness. Maybe some are predisposed to being more mentally tough than others, I don't know.

But not everyone handles adversity and hardship in the same manner. You seem to categorize everyone as being this way. "Deal with a lot of shit in life and eventually you will resort to giving up."

Not so much factual based on what I've seen.

Each of us handles this differently.

The majority of men meet with failure because of their lack of persistence in creating new plans to take the place of those which fail.

The miracle, or the power, that elevates the few is to be found in their industry, application, and perseverance under the prompting of a brave, determined spirit.

The most essential factor is persistence - the determination never to allow your energy or enthusiasm to be dampened by the discouragement that must inevitably come.

I like quotes. Some hate them. But people who have achieved greatness didn't always have the "easy" road. Some had to struggle their way to the top, too.

But for Steve I do want to make one last point. And knowing that sometimes my words have the grace of a toddler trying to walk, I am sorry if this comes out accusatory and snippy. It's not meant to. I think that you are a great person and provide people with a wealthy source of information. However I offer you up some food for thought... I think that in your generous quest to help people with weightloss, you also put them into a box when you vocalize into "not buying" certain, theories?, shall we say.

Are you implying that I go by the notion that "it's my way or the highway?"

Before I offer up a response, I need to make sure I am reading you correctly.

People who dont' lose weight easily deal with resistance, rejection and non-acceptance everyday. Since you don't understand (resist the idea) how a person can know the way to losing weight yet they don't do it, you put them into a negative box that disables them further.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Perhaps if you knew me in real life and were able to see my interactions with people whom I help, you would think differently.

I don't "reject" what you say I reject at all. Sorry if I came across as if I did.

I take no offense to what you say. But you are wrong.

You don't accept their fear of being thin because you have never been afraid of achieving your own physical goals. A good majority of people who are overweight are there because it's a coping mechanism for something deeper. But your quest to be buff is not catering to a coping mechanism.

If you actually read some of my other posts regarding this VERY topic (fear of losing weight keeps you stagnant) you would not assume that I "don't accept their fear of being thin."

This I kind of take offense to simply b/c I have discussed this very topic numerous times in the forum. And no, I don't expect you to read everything I say.

However, I do expect you to NOT assume I think a certain way. At no time in this thread did I reject the idea that fear of losing weight holds some people captive.

 

[Steve]

I don't take it that way, and neither should you. I think the vast majority of us here agree with what Mal said -- that you do more for more people on this board than practically anyone. And I certainly agree with Sirant -- that the real benefit of this post is to get us to look at ourselves.

To all the psychological mumbo jumbo I posted earlier, let me add one more thing that makes victory a real struggle -- the lack of good, solid, healthy information. I feel that this time around, I finally have the right information, and a good share of the credit for that goes directly to you, Coach.

Yeah, there will be some who grouse because you haven't walked a mile in their shoes. I could give a S%*T. You've given us the information we need to change our lives. You've had the patience to answer our most detailed, and sometimes ridiculous, questions. You've challenged our wrong assumptions. If you're the enemy, who needs friends?

Thanks for this Tom. And I really haven't taken offense. I just don't want this thread to take a turn for the worse, in the sense of, Steve doesn't see my views because he has never been fat.

I didn't start it for that. I started it to openly discuss a topic that applies to ALL of us.

Regarding:

"Steve was never fat so what does he really know?"

You see, that means shit IMO. It's not like I am some guy who learned a lot about the human body and I want to "educate" fat people so they don't have to deal with being fat anymore. I like to think of it as a bit more personal than that.

Case in point:

I am a senior in college. As a freshman, I started a website geared specifically for obese people looking to make change. MOST of the people I helped on that site was by way of changing perspectives rather than habits.

I rarely wrote a workout program for someone. I rarely created an individualized diet for someone.

Certainly, by changing perspectives, habits changed too, eventually. Point is, I know it isn't as simple as showing you the "how." I talk mostly about the "how" on this website, but I don't like the idea of certain individuals here believing that is all that I am about. That I "get" the how, but I don't "get" the mental side of things.

Back to my senior year. A woman emails me. She found my website and was lurking on the forum for a while. She lived west of Pittsburgh, PA. It was about 6 hours from me. Her story touched my so much that I hopped in my car and drove to her that day.

Am I telling you this so that I can get a pat on the butt?

Hell no.

I am telling this b/c I have seen first hand how out of control one's mind can make you. I know how possible it is that all you want is to control your behavior so that the outcome is what you want (in the context of this discussion it's to lose weight of course), yet not being able to act on it consistently.

This woman had grown to 500+ lbs. It hurt for her to walk, it hurt for her to stand, it hurt for her to sit, and it hurt for her to lay. Life SUCKED for her. She had no insurance and never left the house. A friend would do her grocery shopping for her each week, and that was the extent of her interactions with the real world. She spent much of her life on the computer.

I could get into the details, but I really don't think they are needed. It was a sad situation.

My point is, when you work with people so closely, you begin to feel their pain. You begin to understand. I am no dummy.

Think of a doctor who deals with cancer patients day in and day out. Sure he may have never had cancer himself, but you damn well better believe that he is very sensitive and acutely familiar with the thought processes of cancer patients.

I have worked closely with a lot of people and if you are not a dummy, you learn a lot.

 

[Steve]

Everything good has been said already!!!!

My personal take after doing a little skimming is this:

Why is it so hard? Simple. Pain. It hurts. Bottom Line. At least that was the case for me and most people I know.

Bleeding blisters, cramps, spasms, DOM's, sprains, strains, pulls, tears, salty sweat in the eyes, cuts, scrapes, etc etc etc. if that isnt pain then I am afraid of the real definition....

Humanity spends most of its available energy and drive to make life easier for ourselves, not many, other than sadists and weirdos actually go out of their way to find pain. And really, isn't that what losing weight is all about? Its about giving up that comfort zone and going beyond. We know the medicine in the needle will make us feel better, but does that make the stab less painful? Women know they will love that little bundle of joy shooting out of them, but does that make the 12 hours a labor easy? Does the fact we know it will feel better away AFTER the root canal make the process itself that much sweeter? Hell no!!!

How many of us backed down the last 20 times at the first sign of discomfort? How many of us said "This just isnt worth the effort" after we sprained our ankle or pushed ourselves too hard? How many of us thought to ourselves "Is it really worth it?" when push came to shove? My hand is up just as high as yours.

Of course I can't speak for everyone (dont know many overweight sadists looking to lose weight), but based on what I have read, and yes indeed experienced, NOBODY ever says "God! I just shredded my hamstring and cant walk for a week! I love it!!!" Show me that person and I will show you a very odd individual...

But it is more than just physical pain. We have to give up things that in the past took the place of love, friendship, companionship, warmth, trust, hope, etc. I never had a donut tell me I was a fat loser, wish I could have said the same for people. For a lot of us losing that relationship we have developed with food, lack of activity and sedentary lifestyles is the same as telling someone to dump their spouse and children of 10 years on a whim.

We all know it is better for us to be fit instead of fat. We have had this very basic piece of information drilled into us since we were kids. Knowing what we know now, how could there possibly be even one cigarette smoker in the entire planet?? Yet their are billions. Same reason. They know that to give up the addicition it is going to hurt. Plain and simple. And the same can be said about weight problems.

We all know about how unhealthy it is to be fat, and how society judges us for being overweight, how our lives are being shortened and that life in general is harder and costs us more than "average" healthy people. But the big problem is we all know it will hurt to make the changes. We know that running 1km for the first time is going to make us hurt. And everytime after that, possibly for months till we get used to it. We know we will sweat like pigs compared to the other skinny people in the gym, and it hurts to feel their stares and gawking eyes upon us. We all know the agony we will suffer putting away the cheetos and grabbing a bag of carrot sticks instead. We all KNOW this.

We all know, through experience or the experience of others that there is one thing we must all experience to achieve our goals. And that is pain.

It is a natural human instinct to avoid pain at all costs, emotional and physical. And it is that same instinct that I feel holds us back from becoming the best we can be.

I *#@%^ing HATE hearing people say to me "Oh your so lucky you can lose weight like that...." Makes me want to share some of the pain I had to experience to get here with them, trust me. Luck had nothing to do with it. I suffered the blood, sweat and tears, literally, to get here. I felt the pain, AND PUSHED PAST IT!!!

Ask any successfull weight loser if the journey was a piece of cake and if they never felt any pain in the process. if they say no, they are lying. Bottom line.

Thats just my 2 cents, right or wrong.

sirant

I owe you a beer.

That was an awesome post, Sirant.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I have said it before and I will say it again.... pain and pleasure drive everything.

 

[Steve]

Hi!

This is a good topic. I do not have time to read this whole thread, so apologies if this doesn't fit in somehow. (also this is going to be a very quick post, just a thought, whereas I could actually easily write a whole essay on this topic!)

My thought is more along the lines of why people like Steve cannot understand the problems that many on this forum (including myself) have, rather than the problems themselves.

I have a close friend in an abusive relationship. I absolutely CANNOT begin to understand why she doesn't leave the guy. I really can't. But I can see parallels between this situation, and what we have been talking about. We may know in our heads that our bad lifestyles are harming us, mentally and physically, and we may know what we need to do to change. Just as my friend knows her fiance is cruel and violent and she would be better off if she left.

But there is so much more to both situations than logic and reason. Emotion, habit, low self esteem, lack of love for yourself, fear of the unknown, convenience etc etc.

Someone who has not experienced many of these factors (Steve I suspect!), and who looks at these things purely logically, and from a point of view of having healthy self esteem, will never REALLY understand the mindset of someone who struggles hard to change, even when they know what they need to do, any more than I will ever understand why my friend does not leave her partner.

Do I even have to reply to this?

Hopefully not, read my most recent posts from today.

People like me? Haha.

You can believe this or not. I have related myself to more overweight people in my life than to skinny people.

 

[TomO]

People make a fundamental error when they assume that in order to help someone, you have to have experienced what they are going through. It's a good thing real life doesn't operate that way. Otherwise, every psychiatrist would be a schizophrenic, every doctor would have AIDS, every chiropractor would have a bad back, and every teacher would be ignorant.

Empathy is what's important here. The person who helps others has empathy, not necessarily the sympathy that comes from sharing a common situation. There's a big difference.

 

[Steve]

I think most of us do realize that you struggle steve, and it just hass to take once glance at you to know you've worked your behind off to get to hwhere you are and it's not easy...

The difference however, is you started from a point where society wouldn't have looked at you, pointed at laughed... you looked fine... it's a struggle to get to the point where we do look fine.. and in some cases it's overwhelming - If you never did another thing you'd still look fine.. If I never did another thing I'd still be obese.

I don't want this to be a you vs us thread - cripes you help more people on this forum than anyone you're like totally one of us dude and we like ya... least I do (you can even come to the slumber parties and we'll freeze yor undies and paint your toenails - -most days anyhow but in my twisted logic world there is a slight distinction between busting yur butt to look awesome and busting your butt to achieve some normalcy...

And I never thought otherwise on all accounts. Mainly the last one.

To add to this though:

A struggle is a struggle, as I said before. Your subconscious mind sees a struggle as being no different than the next. You (as in overweight people) struggle to be "normal" by F-ed up standards established by a bunch of shallow boobs (our lovely society).

And am I normal?

Not by the standards of the people in MY world. You haven't walked a day in my shoes either, mind you.

Sure, do I deal with ridicule from strangers because of the way I look? No. I mean, I get little comments and stares here and there. Especially when I order a meal at a restaraunt that isn't from the menu. Little things like that. But as you know, b/c society certainly throws more little things, mixed with big things at you.... these things add up.

Do I deal with ridicule from those whom matter most to me in my life, (family and friends)? Certainly.

Remember, at times it seems we live in a society where it is the skinny people vs. the fat people. The media has done nothing to help this ideology. BUT, and this is a big but.....

99 out of 100 times, the skinny people are skinny due to genetics. They don't eat much differently than the fat people. They eat a lot of junk. They don't exercise. In reality, there isn't much difference between the two groups actually. Lucky for them (skinny people) though, they are not predisposed to gaining weight easily.

Throw someone like me into the mix who is meticulous when it comes to training and nutrition, and all of a sudden, I am certainly not a member of the "masses."

Again, a struggle is a struggle. And saying my struggle isn't as challenging as yours is stupid, IMO. Why?

Some of you are debating that I don't know what it's like to walk a day in your shoes. Well, you don't know what it's like to walk a day in mine. That darn logic thing again.

Am I suggesting that I have dealt with more shit than some of you? ABSOLUTELY freaking not. I wouldn't dare. I have seen the shit that big people have to deal with on a daily basis, as I have mentioned above. My struggles are different.

But they are all born from the mind.

Sure, you could argue that society creates your struggles. And indirectly, they do. However, what society really does is create a mindset. A destructive mindset with regards to health and physique. So again, it is the mind that will ALWAYS be the middleman (IMO). We all share this commonality.

You can't change society. At least not quickly. But you can certainly change your mindset.

 

[Steve]

First off Steve,

I and most others here do truly respect what you do and how you do it. Bottom line. And I know I am not the only one who "really" sees what this thread was about in the first place. I know it wasn't you trying to figure out what is wrong with us and the rest of the overweight population, you were giving us a forum to answer that question for ourselves, possibly allowing us to enlighten ourselves and others along the way. It is obvious from all the posts praising it it was a good idea. Sometimes seeing what makes it hard for us, is similar to someone else's experience that has gotten over it. I know it is sometimes easier to see the other side of our particular struggle if we know somebody else made it before, so its not impossible. This thread just opened the door to let those experiences and ideas out.

Well done, once again a great post.

Sirant

Thanks a lot Sirant.

It means a lot coming from you.

 

[maleficent]

For diseases that's absolutely true - but for some people - and not all overweight people - I can't tell you how many times I heard - all you have to do is take in less than you burn off... OK makes sense... and a year later it really is that easy... but getting to that point where you believe you can do it -isn't easy... and empathy or sympathy isn't a factor - you can't make someone do something they aren't ready to do in their own mind... they need that a-ha lightbulb goes on moment that puts them into action - it can be health scares, vanity, any reason even a silly one... but it's got to come from them.

I think some people have trouble with finding that a-ha moment - the reason why they want to do it... and the reason why they want to continue doing it - even when it's looking pretty bleak... I had plenty of bleak moments but I knew where I kept that lightbulb... I think it's easier for a person to relate to another person who's been thru a similar experience.

Or not - ...

 

[cym]

This is probably the best thread I have ever read, in any forum, at any time...it opens the door for each of us to look within ourselves and be honest about the "whys".

Steve, I have nothing but respect for you...your knowledge, your above and beyond the call willingness to share that knowledge and your no b.s. approach in doing so. Although I've been scarred for life by a really, really bad trainer and can't imagine ever putting myself in the hands of another one, if I ever did, it would have to be someone exactly like you.

That said though, if I had the choice of a trainer exactly like you and one exactly like you who had a history of significant weight gain/loss in his/her history...I have to say I'd go for door number two.

I am one of those people who has been obese, lost the weight through much pain and effort only to regain it...not once but twice. And any sane, rational person who has never been down that particular path would only wonder why/how/wtf? Same questions I ask myself and somedays have answers to, and somedays don't. Which is why, post weight loss, I'm on this forum, loggin in my foods everyday to make sure two strikes don't turn into three.

I truly believe that there's a lot of physio influences to the mindset of someone who is or has been significantly overweight...the biology is different, the hormones are different - and yea, I think this is part of why the mind-set is different....along with some of the above posters I think there's an addictive component to overeating just like gambling, drug, alcohol...maybe some people are just predisposed to having addictive personalities and food is simply our "drug of choice"

I know a woman who lost her house, husband, job and family through a gambling addiction before she entered treatment. I had a good friend who lost his wife, child, car, job, residence (in that order) through a drug addiction before he got treatment - and relapsed. The thing is, even when they were in the middle of being miserable because of behavior that they were chosing, there was a part of me that understood exactly how/why they kept going towards self-destruction because, although my personal addiction was binge eating, I knew exactly how it felt at that moment when nothing in the entire world felt as important/rewarding/scary and uncontrollable as "feeding the addiction".