Why is this hard?
- Thread starter Steve
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M2M
New member
I don't know - even when I was grossly overweight I KNEW that an entire can of Pringles was not a single serving.
Education alone wasn't enough to keep me from devouring a can. What makes me stop now is commitment of living healthier. A constant struggle towards getting away from mindless eating.
I don't buy snacky food for that very reason - even with knowledge and education, the hand to mouth action is a hard one to master for me.
maleficent summed up my exact thoughts on the matter "I didn't really want it bad enough" and until I did all the education and will power and encouragement in the world was not going to keep me from yo-yo weight gain and loss and gain.
Yes I wanted to lose weight, yes, when I lost weight the first time I wanted it to stay off, yes I wanted to stop the regain and lose it again...but I didn't want it bad enough to make the significant, lasting changes in my life that it entailed. I gave lip service to wanting it. I thought I wanted it. But, time and time again when push came to shove, there were other things I wanted more.
Yes I wanted to lose weight, yes, when I lost weight the first time I wanted it to stay off, yes I wanted to stop the regain and lose it again...but I didn't want it bad enough to make the significant, lasting changes in my life that it entailed. I gave lip service to wanting it. I thought I wanted it. But, time and time again when push came to shove, there were other things I wanted more.
Personally, I don't buy into that. I mean, I understand that instant gratification is something we've come to expect as a society. And when I was a "kid" I certainly expected to be HUGE and muscular within 3 months of working out. But as soon as I realized that the gains were NOT coming on as quick as I had hoped (none at all actually) I became hungrier. I wanted it more and more. I did everything in my power to learn how and why. As I became more educated, I realized more progress. Never did I think about giving up simply b/c it was too hard or would take too long. But again, this is me personally. I enjoy a challenge.
IMO, if you really want something bad enough, you will do anything to get it, within limits of course.
And this is why I think a lot of it has to do with "self talk." Sure, rationally, logically, and CONSCIOUSLY many of us may say we want to change. But all along, we aren't paying attention to our subconscious minds, which ultimately guide and dictate our behaviors.
Once educated about how all this works, why doesn't rational thinking take over?
What I mean is, for some, hearing that you will have to lose 1-2 lbs per week (this isn't true for those who have large amounts of weight to lose) in order to do this "right" is enough to deter them from taking action. It deters them because they want this instant gratification.
But when they are in a community such as WLF, isn't the playing field different? There are no pre-packaged goods or services being pushed on to anyone (except for Cohens). I mean, there are people here who are actually "in the know" and spend the time to educate people. Once they are educated, why isn't it enough for them to act rationally, assuming they really want to lose the weight?
Is it a matter of actually believing the truth?
A matter of old habits dying hard?
If it has to be a slow process, maybe it isn't worth it to some?
Is it the issue of "self talk" I presented above?
I could ask a million questions and get 5 billion answers. I am merely thinking out loud.
I hear the world will power used all the time... and I will stand here and tell you I have absolutely no will power at all.. Will power wasn't a factor for me -determination and my stubbornness are finally finding a good use to get me to where I want to be...
In my past -I would look at diet programs - and the portions would be like 3 ounces of chicken, 1/2 cup of broccoli and a 1/2 cup of rice... Ok those might be portion sizes but not in my world... If I had to live with those portion sizes I wouldn't have lasted 2 weeks... 2 cups of broccoli is my normal serving size... my protein is usually more like 8 ounces -- Diets frustrated me in the past becasue it was so little food... I like to eat... I am a person who doesn't eat to live -they live to eat -and I'm sure that'd wrong but it's what I am... and it took a lot of patience - something again I have none of - to invent a plan for myself that kept me within reasonable calories and let me eat...
In my past -I would look at diet programs - and the portions would be like 3 ounces of chicken, 1/2 cup of broccoli and a 1/2 cup of rice... Ok those might be portion sizes but not in my world... If I had to live with those portion sizes I wouldn't have lasted 2 weeks... 2 cups of broccoli is my normal serving size... my protein is usually more like 8 ounces -- Diets frustrated me in the past becasue it was so little food... I like to eat... I am a person who doesn't eat to live -they live to eat -and I'm sure that'd wrong but it's what I am... and it took a lot of patience - something again I have none of - to invent a plan for myself that kept me within reasonable calories and let me eat...
slimmom
New member
Exactly - for me it's been tunnel vision. In the big picture, I want to lose weight. 24/7, I want to lose weight. But right there in front of me is that thing I want to eat and surely this one meal or snack isn't a problem, except that the justifications were endless. I thought I wanted to lose weight, but when push came to shove, I wanted to eat that *whatever* more.
Steve, I do get motivated by seeing the good that i have done but the reverse is true as well, if I do poorly I begin to give up then....BOOM, back to the bad and weight gain. Even though I know what I am doing, sometimes I wonder if I am Loopy.
I think this is simply a matter of controlling your focus. Easier said that done, I am aware.
But even with me.
There are months where numbers didn't go the direction I had hoped. I didn't reach my goals either with body weight, body fat, strength etc. I could sit there and get pissed off at myself OR....
I could look back and figure out where I went wrong. What could I have done differently? When, where did I take short cuts and/or cheat and why did I do this?
Sounds corny, but its the truth if you make it so: There is no such thing as failure. Not reaching your goals is instead, succeeding at finding what NOT to do or what to do a bit differently.
That's the way I really look at it for myself. Sure, there are acute bouts of frustration, but they are always short lived due to the mental conditioning I have done with myself.
Feeling bad and/or negative is EXTREMELY easy to do if you don't control your focus.
TomO
0
This is a fascinating topic, that's for sure.
I supect there are as many reasons why people don't do what's right for their bodies as there are people on this forum.
For me, the whole subject of food and weight is incredibly emotional. When I was a baby, my parents were a butler and a maid, and the only time they could see me was when I was fed. I'm sure the food=companionship equation was imprinted on my brain at a very early age.
Growing up, my father started a construction business and became successful. Even then, eating was a major emotional component of our relationship. My parents went through the period in German when the hyper-inflation hit, so they raised me as a lifelong member of the "clean the plate club." Food was so short for them so often in Germany that taking seconds and thirds was expected. It was almost an insult if you didn't.
At the same time, they were heavily influenced by the Berlin cult of youth and beauty. They detested fat people, and often derided them at the dinner table. You can imagine how that worked inside my pre-adolescent brain.
At a very early age, I began to associate being overweight with isolation and failure. I remember in little league football, I had to have a big white patch sewn on my jersey, which designated that I was too heavy to ever carry the ball.
There was only one period really in my youth when I was an ideal weight -- from 7th grade into the 3rd year of college. That was a period I exercised and played sports like crazy, 2 to 3 hours a day. Then, when I dropped out of college, I started to put the weight on again.
Now don't get me wrong -- I had great parents, and a wonderful life. I don't feel like my life has been anything close to a failure. After all, I live very well, I have two kids I'm enormously proud of, and I've been with a woman I love for 33 years. But when it comes to weight and food -- well, that's where I feel like I've been a failure most of my life.
This was NOT a failure borne out of ignorance. True, I've had a lot of screwy ideas about food and exercise, and I feel like I know more now than I ever had, but I can't blame my past 8 failures on lack of knowledge. I think the fundamental problem was that I simply could not rise above my psychological problem with food. I would try, and every time I'd see my parents or speak to them, I'd revert to my infantile ways. Incredibly silly, I know, but that's the sad truth.
My father died 10 years ago, and my mother, though still alive at 96, has dementia. I no longer feel that emotional tug from them. Believe me -- I'm not blaming them for anything; this is my weakness, not theirs. But emotionally, for the first time in 40 years, I really feel I can lick this thing once and for all. [Wow, this sounds really pathetic, I know, but maybe someone else out there who feels equally pathetic can get some solace from this. . . ]
The other element that changed things for me was fear. I have always been prone to depression (family trait), and I suppose overeating is a form of slow suicide. Until now, though, I never had to confront the realities of dying from this. But last year, it suddenly came into clear focus. On the one hand, there was my wife, my beautiful adult kids, the incredible surprises they brought to us every time we talked to them, the visions of marriages and grandchlidren, etc. On the other hand, there was my stupid psychological hangup, my death wish, and my laziness.
Life, or death - that was the choice.
I chose life.
I supect there are as many reasons why people don't do what's right for their bodies as there are people on this forum.
For me, the whole subject of food and weight is incredibly emotional. When I was a baby, my parents were a butler and a maid, and the only time they could see me was when I was fed. I'm sure the food=companionship equation was imprinted on my brain at a very early age.
Growing up, my father started a construction business and became successful. Even then, eating was a major emotional component of our relationship. My parents went through the period in German when the hyper-inflation hit, so they raised me as a lifelong member of the "clean the plate club." Food was so short for them so often in Germany that taking seconds and thirds was expected. It was almost an insult if you didn't.
At the same time, they were heavily influenced by the Berlin cult of youth and beauty. They detested fat people, and often derided them at the dinner table. You can imagine how that worked inside my pre-adolescent brain.
At a very early age, I began to associate being overweight with isolation and failure. I remember in little league football, I had to have a big white patch sewn on my jersey, which designated that I was too heavy to ever carry the ball.
There was only one period really in my youth when I was an ideal weight -- from 7th grade into the 3rd year of college. That was a period I exercised and played sports like crazy, 2 to 3 hours a day. Then, when I dropped out of college, I started to put the weight on again.
Now don't get me wrong -- I had great parents, and a wonderful life. I don't feel like my life has been anything close to a failure. After all, I live very well, I have two kids I'm enormously proud of, and I've been with a woman I love for 33 years. But when it comes to weight and food -- well, that's where I feel like I've been a failure most of my life.
This was NOT a failure borne out of ignorance. True, I've had a lot of screwy ideas about food and exercise, and I feel like I know more now than I ever had, but I can't blame my past 8 failures on lack of knowledge. I think the fundamental problem was that I simply could not rise above my psychological problem with food. I would try, and every time I'd see my parents or speak to them, I'd revert to my infantile ways. Incredibly silly, I know, but that's the sad truth.
My father died 10 years ago, and my mother, though still alive at 96, has dementia. I no longer feel that emotional tug from them. Believe me -- I'm not blaming them for anything; this is my weakness, not theirs. But emotionally, for the first time in 40 years, I really feel I can lick this thing once and for all. [Wow, this sounds really pathetic, I know, but maybe someone else out there who feels equally pathetic can get some solace from this. . . ]
The other element that changed things for me was fear. I have always been prone to depression (family trait), and I suppose overeating is a form of slow suicide. Until now, though, I never had to confront the realities of dying from this. But last year, it suddenly came into clear focus. On the one hand, there was my wife, my beautiful adult kids, the incredible surprises they brought to us every time we talked to them, the visions of marriages and grandchlidren, etc. On the other hand, there was my stupid psychological hangup, my death wish, and my laziness.
Life, or death - that was the choice.
I chose life.
That's you... not everyone is at the same starting point... I will see this thru to completion but starting is not easy - and once I commited to dooing it - i was Ok but its that first step and knowing what direction to take that's the tough part.steve said:
my subconscious mind is pretty loud - and has been talking to me for a very long timesteve said:
The education part isn't easy - google diets on he web - and most of 'em will tell youo 1200 calories.. or something that we know isn't totally reasonable.. 1200 calories is tough to do...steve said:
there are also a lot of pompous windbags that find their way in the door, and people who think they're experts because they m anaged to lose 5lbs by eating snake venom... Consider a new person coming in the door... they have 100lbs to lose - and they're on a 1200 calorie diet - they are told their calories are too low but aren't given a whole lot of direction on what to do - searchingn thru threads here -t here's a ton of info -the same questions get asked over and over - some of it is good info - some of it - not so much... I think itd be frustrating. The people "in the know" dont wear tshirts -- so there's a lot o f sifting thru answers to know what to beleive.steve said:
what is the truth?
almost one year into this I'm still not sure it's worth it to me... Ego is what will have me finish -but at my age - 1 1/2 years is al ong time...
that's a big factor with me...
I have seen this and understand it.
I think our society has made it so that there is skinny people and than there are fat people. Like there is some ridiculous difference between the two. And unfortunately for the fat people, they get the shaft at being the side nobody wants to be on. The side that has something wrong with them.
Of course this is all utterly ridiculous, but unfortunately we live in a society full of shallow, ignorant people.
With that said, when a fat person decides to do something about his/her weight, it is usually a very uncomfortable experience because:
a) I think some fat people buy into the concept that there is something wrong with them when compared to skinnier people, and once they start to make positive changes, they are admitting this, which is never positive in terms of emotions
b) They are the outcast. In many gyms, the majority of people look healthy when viewed from the fat person's eyes. And even if they don't, it still doesn't make it easy totally leaving your comfort zone.
I do understand this and see how it can certainly be a barrier to entry, so to speak.
no.
Okay, I put the smiley to make it sound less harsh..but my gut feeling is really "no". Because you don't know what floats my personal boat. You (and I mean "you" in the generic sense) can inspire me, educate me, give me dozens of valuable tools regarding nutrition and exercise, and support me emotionally - but down deep you can't really motivate me because deep down motivation comes from within and is based on what is really important to me alone in the moment. You might think "well, good grief isn't your health, your comfort, your vanity, your very life important to you"...and realistically, at that moment in time, for whatever reason the answer might well be, if I chose to admit it "no...right now the satisfaction that will come from eating half a cheesecake is more important to me" (random example)...and until and unless you come up with a way to peer inside my head and rearrange my thought patterns, you won't be able to generate any thing but the "means" of successful weight loss/maint...not the hunger to reach for them.
You will hear me say pretty often that perception is everything. And this is why.
What's in front of your face is what you allow to be your reality. And when you do that, all the good things that come from leading a healthy lifestyle lose their "realness."
Harder yet, allowing what's in front of your face to become your reality is damn easy. And instead, making fitness, health, weight loss and all that good stuff reality isn't so simple. The path is a lot longer and a lot steeper, so it actually takes work and effort to change the way you think.
Hence, you have the importance of mental health and exercising. I think it is right up there with fitness and nutrition.
Personally, I was a junk food addict back in the day. I also loved to watch TV. It wasn't until I started writing what I really wanted down on paper, things such as affirmations, and really started paying attention to my self-talk, that I was able to make the future my reality. I was able to link pain to actually caving in to the junk food that was very real and right in front of my face. And not JUST link pain to it (opposed to pleasure), but also actually truly believe that pain.
P.S.
I feel like I am not articulating my true emotions of any of these posts as I am typing a million words per second trying to keep up. Sorry if it comes across that way!!!!
you can't make someone do something they don't believe they can do themselves or want to do themselves... I'm going to quote my essay again - whenin another situation - my friend said to me - I can't do it for you - You have to do it for you. People have to want it for themselves and believe they can do it for themselves
One of the words that gets tthrown around sites such as this is Inspiration.. Personally I can't stand the word and I don't thinK i am anyone's inspiration.. However I would like people to think, oh that mal, she's a lazy good for nothing moron -- if she can do it -then so can I..
I'm a fairly competitive person by nature, generally against myself, but I have no problem with the anything they can do I can do better mentality.. .and it helps keep me going to some extent...
Excellent post, Tom.
Oh Mal, I love debating with you.
I know and completely understand this. That is why I said, "This is me personally though."
Believe me, I don't expect anyone and everyone to behave like me. God that would be frightening.
Your subconscious mind is no louder than anyone else's here. The only difference between you and the next person is how well do you listen to it. And more importantly, what do you do about the things that it says.
I think way to much, so I've been told. And whenever I think about people not following through or finding themselves struggling to take consistent action, I always find myself coming to the conclusion that they are not paying attention to their subconscoius minds OR they are, and don't know what to do or how to change it.
Did I say it was?
I certainly know it isn't easy. If it were, I wouldn't find myself answering the same questions over and over again. Not that I mind it AND not that I have all the answers, b/c I certainly do not.
The amount of misinformation (let's call it what it is, SHIT) that is floating around is astonishing. That is why I think communities such as this are fantastic tools for people that allow them to be.
Wait one darn second!
Are you calling me a pompous windbag. You didn't have to resort to name calling Mal!
Just teasing!!!
And your point is well taken. Even with me.... I have a problem where I don't like "spoon feeding" people. I have no problems answering questions, but when someone asks a question that they can easily find in the stikies, it tends to get under my skin.
And it shouldn't. People like individualized attention. And when I have the time and patience, they will certainly get it from me. I am working on making more of it so that it doesn't bother me as often. And I know that you were not referring that I am doing things wrong around here. Trust me.
I am saying this b/c I understand that even though a community such as WLF is a great tool and resource, I also know that it isn't as simple as signing up and "wam bam," all of a sudden you know what to do. It still takes some effort and deductive reasoning. But for now, I truly think aside from hiring a "good" trainer/coach, finding a good community such as this is your next best option.
But it's what you make of it, just as anything else.
In the context of this discussion, it's that losing weight is a slow and hard process. It is the opposite of what the gimmicky marketers would like you to believe.
Very interesting. I must say, I have helped a lot of people lose weight. I haven't directly helped you, but you are the first to say such things. After losing so much weight, most (all actually) felt so much better not only about themselves mentally, but also physically.
I truly hope you realize that IT IS WORTH IT. I have faith that you will!
no.
See, I disagree with this only b/c I have helped people "rearrange their thoughts." More importantly, I have had my thoughts "rearranged."
You are right, it is ultimately up to YOU to decide when you are ready. But I believe that outside "help" can help you reach that point quicker and help you change the way you think, assuming the help is good.
And I am by no means saying I can help anyone take consistent action now. If I could, I'd be famous. But I do believe there are "mental exercises" that can help one "see the light."
I agree with this. Nobody can do it for you. You have to do it for you.
Completely agree.
I wasn't intending my words to mean otherwise.
What I meant is what I said to Cym, above.
You crack me up!
Showing someone that if I can do it, then so can you, is in and of itself..... INSPIRATION.
And as much as you don't like to hear it, you are an inspiration to many. Funny, witty, intelligent, caring.... list goes on and on.
But most importantly in the context of this forum and this discussion..... you've been there and done that. You have lost a good bit of weight. This is something that many, many people hope to accomplish. Helping people see that it is possible is too, inspirational in and of itself.
In my opinion, there's no better way to be. Competing against someone who is not identical to you (and there aren't any unless you have an identical twin) is futile.
I'm a pain in the ass - tell me something I don't know
tbis forum has changed drastically i the past year - some for the better some for the worse - almost a year ago when I joined -t he diet du jour was atkins and very very low calorie diets -I spent an awful lot of time posting links I had found - trying to help people and show that ultra low calorie diets weren't the way to go... and people weren't aboout listening (but am I bitter? No..
It's really a shame I deleted past diaries just to see the comments that were left abouot how I was doing things wrong because I was having way too many calories