Weightloss Surgery Kills 1 in 50
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LowFatMilk
New member
Yes, the surgery should be outlawed, along with peanuts, penicillin, and anesthetic, for they all might lead to death of a person.
Don't forget to outlaw fat people too, they are endangering their own lives.
Don't forget to outlaw fat people too, they are endangering their own lives.
Educator
Banned
Yes, the surgery should be outlawed, along with peanuts, penicillin, and anesthetic, for they all might lead to death of a person.
Don't forget to outlaw fat people too, they are endangering their own lives.
You cannot outlaw fat people but suicide is against the law in the US as is assisted suicide. Maybe the morbidly obese and their enablers can be convicted of suicide.
We know for a fact that obesity and gluttony cause premature death. We know for a fact that WLS surgery kills at least 1 in 50. Most suicide attempts are not that successful.
I know that in Canada airlines are forced to give fat people 2 seats for the price of one. That only enables people to behave badly.
Decided December 8, 1902.
[187 U.S. 197, 198] This was a writ of certiorari to review a judgment of the circuit court of appeals affirming a judgment of the circuit court for the western district of Missouri, overruling the defense of suicide to an action upon a policy of life insurance, and awarding plaintiff judgment for the amount of the policy and assessments thereon.
An agreed statement of facts shows defendant to be an Illinois corporation, organized 'for the purpose of furnishing life indemnity or pecuniary benefits to widows,' etc.; and that on October 19, 1885, it issued to John P. Jarman, plaintiff's husband, and a citizen of Missouri, a policy of insurance or certificate of membership, subject to the constitution and by-laws of the company and certain conditions in the policy, one of which provided for its avoidance in case of self- destruction, 'whether voluntary or involuntary, sane or insane.' The seventh stipulation was that 'John P. Jarman, while insane to such an extent as to be incapable of understanding the nature or consequences of his act, took his own life, and came to his death on the 12th day of September, 1898, by a gunshot wound, inflicted by himself. It is not contended, however, by plaintiff that such self-destruction was the result of accident.' The further material facts are set forth in the opinion. [187 U.S. 197, 199] Defendant having refused to pay the amount of the policy on account of the suicide of the insured, Rosa B. Jarman, his widow and beneficiary, brought an action January 19, 1899, in the circuit court of Grundy county to recover the amount of the policy, $5,000, and assessments, which action was subsequently removed to the circuit court of the United States for the western district of Missouri, upon the ground of diversity of citizenship. The case was submitted to the court without the intervention of a jury, and resulted in a judgment in favor of the plaintiff in the sum of $6,006. 30, which was affirmed by the circuit court of appeals. Whereupon petitioner sued out a writ of certiorari from this court.
Studies have shown that people in prison convicted of murder, at least 95.656 percent of thm are bread eaters, 92.56 drank milk and 99.99 percent of them drink water.
Studies ar fun aren't they.
Chances are those 1 in 50 would have died anyhow...
Studies ar fun aren't they.
Chances are those 1 in 50 would have died anyhow...
Educator
Banned
I have interviewed about 100 WLS surgery candidates and patients. The candidates think that they can't lose weight without it but are unable to explain why.
WLS patients see WLS as a tool and grudgingly admit the could have done it without it.
None from either group and most unsuccessful dieters will not answer these questions. Here they are.
1. Is not losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight a matter of can't or is it really a matter of won't?
2. I the selection and the consumption of food and unconscious act or it it a willful act?
3. Is chronically exceeding the USDA recommended caloric intake a choice?
I hope nobody is offended by these questions.
WLS patients see WLS as a tool and grudgingly admit the could have done it without it.
None from either group and most unsuccessful dieters will not answer these questions. Here they are.
1. Is not losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight a matter of can't or is it really a matter of won't?
2. I the selection and the consumption of food and unconscious act or it it a willful act?
3. Is chronically exceeding the USDA recommended caloric intake a choice?
I hope nobody is offended by these questions.
Educator
Banned
Yes, the surgery should be outlawed, along with peanuts, penicillin, and anesthetic, for they all might lead to death of a person.
Don't forget to outlaw fat people too, they are endangering their own lives.
None of the above kill 1 in 50 people. Your comment does not make sense.
I agree with Maleficient. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Unless you go ahead with an experimental manipulation (Randomly assign 100 individuals matched for age, BMI, and socioeconomic status) to either WLS or control (wait list, I imagine), which would be unethical, you can't assertain WLS causes death.
People undergoing WLS are typically at a higher risk for health related problems, so it would make sense that they are dieing due to unrelated causes (or vaguely related). Also, factor in the amount of people saved by WLS, and you've got yourself a less sensationalized, but empirically sound study.
Plonki
People undergoing WLS are typically at a higher risk for health related problems, so it would make sense that they are dieing due to unrelated causes (or vaguely related). Also, factor in the amount of people saved by WLS, and you've got yourself a less sensationalized, but empirically sound study.
Plonki
Reeducate and reprogram their belief and value systems before you label these people suicidal.
You, Educator, don't get to point fingers at people and say you are 'good' and you there, you are 'not.'
In your skewed version of reality, you'd call an obese child suicidal simply because of said obesity. When any sane, rational being would deduce that the child is either obese from a condition or from poor parenting.
You might be thinking, "Well that's different b/c they're a child."
When are our minds most impressionable I ask?
And how long do we carry said impressions with us into the future?
You really enjoy binary thinking, don't you.
Willful.
Are all decisions made products of logical 'programming' of the unconscious mind?
Just b/c it's willful doesn't make it right or wrong.
But here we are back to the simplistic binary thinking.
Everything is a choice.
What fuels decision making is the area you enjoy glossing over in your rush to define reality within very rigid parameters.
San2
Mod
Chemotherapy can lead to the death of the patient, rather than be a cure. Radiotherapy is also known to have side effects that can be lethal. Let's outlaw those as well. Especially since some of the people with cancer might have been smokers, or were stupid enough to breathe every now and again, thereby endangering themselves of getting cancer in the first place. They don't deserve treatment anyway, right?
I am not the biggest fan of weight loss surgery myself, but your suggestion is completely ridiculous.
I am not the biggest fan of weight loss surgery myself, but your suggestion is completely ridiculous.
Fifty2drop
New member
..you cant...
Oh truly,
you cant be serious!!
you cant be serious!!
Educator... I think you should rethink that username... we could always offer you some imaginative options...
Educator
Banned
I agree with Maleficient. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Unless you go ahead with an experimental manipulation (Randomly assign 100 individuals matched for age, BMI, and socioeconomic status) to either WLS or control (wait list, I imagine), which would be unethical, you can't assertain WLS causes death.
People undergoing WLS are typically at a higher risk for health related problems, so it would make sense that they are dieing due to unrelated causes (or vaguely related). Also, factor in the amount of people saved by WLS, and you've got yourself a less sensationalized, but empirically sound study.
Plonki
You sound like Kelly Bliss. The fact is 1 in 50 people who have gastric bypass die with in 30 days.
Here is another fact. WLS is rarely done on super morbidly obese patients. Usually the put them on a supervised 800 calorie Medifast diet and the lose 100 or so pounds. Other WLS candidates have to show that they can lose 50 pounds on an unsupervised Medifast diet.
The data shows that of the people who survive WLS compared to people who did not lose weight the life expectancy is increased by 18 months. If you factor in all the WLS induced deaths you will live longer not having it.
WLS causes 1 in 50 deaths. That is what the autopsies say. It is the direct cause.
Most people who have WLS are middle class with private insurance. Medicaid and Medicare will not pay for it. Also, people who have the surgery are usually healthier just before they have than they were when they first applied for it. If a doctor did it on people with one foot in the grave he would not be able to afford the mal-practice insurance for very long.
Educator
Banned
There is a hole in that logic big enough to fly a 747 through.
When a person has chemo or radiation therapy it is because there are no other alternatives. Other than tobacco related cancers, most cancers are not self induced. I would be for not providing public funds for treating smoking related illnesses. I bet that would get a whole lot of people to quit smoking or go on the patch.
As to cancer treatments in general, the are dangerous but generally there are no other alternatives. Also people with cancer are destined to die without them. On the other hand there is a safe alternative to WLS that is fool proof if it is followed. That is diligent calorie restriction. The fact that people WILLFULLY CHOOSE not to follow it is their own damn fault. They knew what the needed to do when they were 5'5" and 170 pounds and they knew what to do when they ballooned up to 180 the next year and 195 pounds the next year and so on and so on but instead they WILLFULLY decided to do nothing to get off the dangerous path they were on. They CHOSE yummy yum yum and a sedentary lifestyle over personal and social responsibility just as the smoker picks tobacco use over common sense. They made their bed. Let them lie in it. If they can pay for their WILLFUL behavior that is one thing but not on my dime. I am not paying for their arrogance and lack of responsibility. Why should it?
LowFatMilk
New member
For every 1 that dies, 49 more people have improved their life quality. (Statisics are easily manipulated, but we'll just humor the situation).
But I have an idea.
Let's outlaw the surgery, and let all 50 die from weight complications!!! Sounds like a better plan to me, who is with me?
But I have an idea.
Let's outlaw the surgery, and let all 50 die from weight complications!!! Sounds like a better plan to me, who is with me?
PaperAirPlanes
New member
I'll call bullshit on this subject. It's things like this, that piss me off. When I was a child, no more than 7 or 8, I ended up with extreme stomach problems and was bounced around from doctor to doctor and spent MANY long days in the Children's Center of the Hershey Medical Center. I gained weight. And I gained weight. And I developed other problems, some I was born with, that kept my weight climbing and kept me from totally being able to lose it. I've been stuck on medications and you know what? I STILL fight with my body. I still take 2 steps forwards and 3 steps back. For what reason? For something that went wrong when I was a kid, an extremely active kid. Not everyone eats themselves into their weight.
If people want to have surgery to lose weight, let them. ONE in FIFTY die. For every new birth, there is a still born. For every cancer patient who makes it, there are many more who don't. For every person who has a disorder or a problem that they have not done to themselves, some will die. For every person who gains weight, be it in their control or not, some will die. For every person who has surgery, for ANY reason, one will die. For every kid who gets the flu, there will be one who gets it bad enough and they just don't make it. For every person driving a car, there will be one who dies.
The world is built on life and death. That's how it works. For every damn person who gets weight loss surgery, one of them is bound to die. Why? YOU can't answer that. I can't answer that. IT HAPPENS.
And if people stayed away from situations that might kill them, no one would leave their houses. In fact, we'd all live in bubble wrap because houses have pointy corners and realisticly, people die from suffication due to plastic too.
You weigh your options and you do it.
You don't knock surgeries that have in deed helped MANY.
If YOU end up with a problem with your heart and you nearly die and a doctor saves your life, you'd be worshipping that doctor to the high heavens. But if a family member did and they died, you'd be posting links about how heart surgery is bad and kills.
In fact, let's just get rid of all science and medical discoveries and never lift another finger because someone might die.
Educator
Banned
Do all 49 really have a better life? The thing they love the most no longer brings them pleasure and satisfaction. Nearly all of them have dumping syndrome and all of them have MAS Mal-absorption Syndrome. Many of them are discomfort every time they eat. Most develop diseases because they have MAS.
I have a better idea. Why not hold obese people's feet to the fire and hospitalize them and reprogram their destructive behaviors with good and responsible ones? Why not show them the folly of WLS? Why not fix their heads instead of butchering their perfectly normal digestive systems?
All 50 do not have to die form their obesity. Chronic over eating of unhealthy calorie laden food is their choice. Nobody is forcing them to eat junk food. They do it freely and enthusiastically. They can change. They choose their deadly status quo.
It is never a matter of can't. It is always a matter of won't. Anyone can adopt a healthy lifestyle. Most people choose not to do so.
Letting them eat themselves to death may send a strong message.
PaperAirPlanes
New member
Are you here to post links and bitch and whine or is there some other severe need for you to be here, like say, being over weight and wanting a group help and to lean on others and the compassion and advice of others?
Because, honestly, you really need to just march your ass off to a site that might trip over and believe your bullshit.
You're an insult to everybody whose working hard. Even those with the surgery, ever take into account that there are folks on this site who are ALIVE and MUCH healthier than they were before?
What? You didn't?
Shut up.
Educator
Banned
Stomach problems caused you to gain weight? That's absurd! The opposite would be true. Gastric discomfort and incomplete digestion cause weight loss NOT weight gain. You are calling bullshit? Hmmm
Not everyone gets fat from eating too many calories? How do they get overweight if they are not taking on more calories than they burn? Just asking
Get rid of all science and medical discoveries? Doctors Atkins and Agatston have tried that with their carb phobia diets and it killed Atkins and Agatston, the South Beach Diet charlatan is on statin drugs and he's a chubby guy with moobs. Atkins was 260 pounds when he died.
We should get rid of the junk medical science and maybe concentrate on finding a cure for something. In the past 60 years medical science (an oxymoron) has not found a cure for any thing. Instead in "manages" disease and reaps obscene profits in the bargain.
In fact in the past 30 years the life expectancy of Americans has declined. 30 years ago 4% of Americans were obese. Now 35% are obese. It looks like all the modern medical science has worked quite well in making doctors filthy rich and Americans sick.
Educator
Banned
Any link I posted is unbiased medical and statistical data. Why do you have a problem with that?
If I were overweight I would not be seeking help from other overweight people. That would be like taking golf lessons from someone who can't hit a golf ball.
Insulting? I don't go around insulting people. Show me one insult that I have made.
Why are you accusing me of insulting people? Then you tell me to shut up. What's up with that? That is not very nice? You do have the power to ignore me and control yourself just as you have the power to control your impulses and choose an apple and celery over a Hostess Twinkie. Do you think that perhaps you and other chronic over eaters have poor impulse control?
PaperAirPlanes
New member
I don't really care to reply to you, because you're thinking is "Everyones fat because they eat themselves that way", did you know there's a particular gene some people have that makes them retain weight? Or how about in my case, SOMETHING in my body MALFUNCTIONED and caused me to retain weight. You are fully aware that the human body can and will malfunction, that health problems can retain weight and make it hard to lose weight.
I don't eat eat eat. In fact, I spent YEARS eating ONCE a day and have done every diet under the sun, short of something stupid and still have weight problems and as I got older it was linked to actual health problems and hormone problems that I, myself, have no control over.
I've got a real issue with you lumping everyone into some neat and tidy box. Not everyones the same. Not everyone thinks like you, nor do they really want to.
Insulting, it's insulting to say that people only get fat because they eat themselves that way. It's insulting to say "just reprogram them", yup, oh so simple, now why didn't I think of that?
You ARE aware that you cannot get WLS until you have gone through intense counseling and they deem you mentaly capable of having the surgery, right? And that they are still urged to try to lose weight on their own. Or do you not want to realize this fact?
I'm done. You go ahead and keep talking. I'll go ahead and keep living in the real world where we actually think and look at all aspects of a situation before we point fingers.
Have a wonderful day.
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