Toning up??

[bexxx]

at the mo im doing nearly all cardio, im not far from my finish weigght so thinking about toning up. what are the best exercises??
x becky

 

[Cantona]

I do; squats, THE PLANK, lunges, squatthrusts and weights.

 

[bexxx]

I do; squats, THE PLANK, lunges, squatthrusts and weights.

i really need to start doing some of these im gonig on holiday after christmas and i want to be able to whip the bikini out xx

 

[Steve]

Toning up is not a verb in my opinion. It's impossible to tone by my definition. However, if you mean you'd like to add some muscle mass, then I'm in agreement.

Being toned if a function of low levels of body fat and maximization of muscle mass.

In theory, anyone interested in optimizing health and body composition should be doing some form of resistance training from the get go. It's not something that should only be started once you reach your "goal weight."

That said, 2-3 days per week of weight training where you're focusing on your total body each day using big movements like squat variations, deadlift variations, pulling, and pressing would be your best bet.

I highly suggest reading my stickies on resistance training if you haven't already. Especially this one:

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/weig...ise/32836-conceptual-side-weight-lifting.html

 

[Jenniferag]

If you have a gym I would start with all the equipment there...I really like the stretch bands to work with.

If you're at home you can do tri cep dips, push ups (including all variations) diamond push-ups, surfer,santana push ups, etc
Tri cep kick backs with cans or sometimes I'll use a bag with dirty laundry in it
Mountain climbers will burn calories while toning... reptile on the run will do the same.
I'm a fan of all that good stuff

 

[Steve]

If you have a gym I would start with all the equipment there...I really like the stretch bands to work with.

If you're at home you can do tri cep dips, push ups (including all variations) diamond push-ups, surfer,santana push ups, etc
Tri cep kick backs with cans or sometimes I'll use a bag with dirty laundry in it
Mountain climbers will burn calories while toning... reptile on the run will do the same.
I'm a fan of all that good stuff

If by tone you mean build muscle, calisthenic stuff is great. After a while though, you need to find ways to increase the stress you're placing on the muscles. Generally, with barbells and dumbbells, this is done by adding weight to the bar. With calisthenics though... especially in the context of a person who's losing weight, progressive overload (a necessary factor when it comes to muscular growth) is tough to come by.

Not impossible, mind you.

You can increase the stress by increasing density (more work in less time) as an example. But at the end of the day, increasing the load becomes the primary player in progressive overload. Which is why calisthenics are great for novices or for general conditioning. Beyond that though, there are more optimal strategies.

And as for kickbacks, I'd much sooner choose a different tricep exercise. Well for starters, I wouldn't be wasting time with arms to begin with... triceps and biceps get plenty of work with all pushing and pulling movements respectively. But if you'd dead set on specific exercises for triceps, kickbacks would not be my first suggestion.

I'd opt for lying extensions, close grip presses, etc.

Certainly not trying to nitpick!!!

 

[Jenniferag]

Bexxx- there are definitely many ways of doing things depending on your skill level and how much you've worked with weights before.

I always just state what HAS worked for me....... it definitely doesn't mean I am the only RIGHT person in ways to do things. But for me.... doing push ups and the variations have definitely toned my arms a ton. Even though I work with weights and stretch bands as well.
Push ups have been the biggest thing for me in toning my shoulders.

But there are tons of ways of doing things Try different things and see which one works for you

 

[Steve]

Bexxx- there are definitely many ways of doing things depending on your skill level and how much you've worked with weights before.

Yes, we're all at different points and we all have individual characteristics that can influence what will be optimal and what won't be.

That said, there are a host of foundational principles that apply to all of us. Progressive overload and the general adaptation syndrome are two such principles. A muscle MUST be stressed beyond its homeostatic level in order to change.

If you're using bodyweight exercises and you're losing weight, the stress is actually reducing over time. Thus, what was once a challenge to your muscle's homeostasis is no longer.

At that point, there's no more reason for adaptation (muscle growth, strength gain).

But for me.... doing push ups and the variations have definitely toned my arms a ton.

Correlation is not causation.

Think of it like this...

I know a ton of people who claim doing 1,512,125 crunches each day gave them ripped abs. Was it the crunches that shredded their midsection or was it the diet they also changed while pursuing a better body?

Again, there's no such thing as toning. A muscle either grows or it doesn't. And that can happen under loads of fat and you'd never notice the actual growth. Getting toned is a function of minimizing body fat levels while maximizing muscle levels.

In your case, push-ups work your pectorals, delts, and triceps primarily. Unless these muscles weren't very trained when you started this exercise, I'd say your "toning" came primarily from a loss of body fat, which tends to cause an optical illusion of sorts on muscle mass.

I'll take myself for instance...

I look much larger at a lean 185 than I do at 200 lbs. Obviously I'm larger at 200, but when I'm lean, my muscles are "popping" which gives off the illusion of being much larger than I am.

Certainly not trying to discredit your work. If you'd like me to "shut up" I'll gladly do so.

 

[Primevci]

man i feel so blessed being on this form with all the professionals.. on another note just do what works for you.. i think allot of people are here to loose weight.. weight training helps with that but doing push ups is better than doing nothing.. If you loose body fat % you will look more toned simple as that.. doing pushups will "pop" any muscle just for the simple fact of blood flows to the muscle.. to build muscle you half to stress it and break it down and this day and age a push up can do that with how out of shape people are "me included" so when pushups stop working switch to something else... have a great day all Glad to see your tracker is up Jenniferag do you have gym access bexxx?

 

[Jenniferag]

I'll think I'll give up now.....however

Bexxx- keep us updated on your progress and let me know what has worked for you

Thank you Primevci for your help

On a happy note.......... I'm glad to maybe kind of, sort of hear that I lost some body fat..... even though I didn't gain any real muscle???
I think... LOL

 

[Primevci]

Yes, we're all at different points and we all have individual characteristics that can influence what will be optimal and what won't be.

That said, there are a host of foundational principles that apply to all of us. Progressive overload and the general adaptation syndrome are two such principles. A muscle MUST be stressed beyond its homeostatic level in order to change.

If you're using bodyweight exercises and you're losing weight, the stress is actually reducing over time. Thus, what was once a challenge to your muscle's homeostasis is no longer.

At that point, there's no more reason for adaptation (muscle growth, strength gain).



Correlation is not causation.

Think of it like this...

I know a ton of people who claim doing 1,512,125 crunches each day gave them ripped abs. Was it the crunches that shredded their midsection or was it the diet they also changed while pursuing a better body?

Again, there's no such thing as toning. A muscle either grows or it doesn't. And that can happen under loads of fat and you'd never notice the actual growth. Getting toned is a function of minimizing body fat levels while maximizing muscle levels.

In your case, push-ups work your pectorals, delts, and triceps primarily. Unless these muscles weren't very trained when you started this exercise, I'd say your "toning" came primarily from a loss of body fat, which tends to cause an optical illusion of sorts on muscle mass.

I'll take myself for instance...

I look much larger at a lean 185 than I do at 200 lbs. Obviously I'm larger at 200, but when I'm lean, my muscles are "popping" which gives off the illusion of being much larger than I am.

Certainly not trying to discredit your work. If you'd like me to "shut up" I'll gladly do so.

Hey one other question I have.. I do weight training 2 to 3 full body's a week but im also eating less then my maintenance calories how can i build muscle while "for lack of a better term" dieting? im doing it just to try not to loose to much Lean muscle.. although my strength and definition has improvement..

I'll think I'll give up now.....however

Bexxx- keep us updated on your progress and let me know what has worked for you

Thank you Primevci for your help

On a happy note.......... I'm glad to maybe kind of, sort of hear that I lost some body fat..... even though I didn't gain any real muscle???
I think... LOL

Thats cool i im one to say what ever works as long as you put in 100%, and when you stall out switch it up i stalled out at 280ish for 3 weeks then switched my cardio and dropped 6lbs in a week i was amazed.. dont let anyone tell you you are doing something wrong if its working...

 

[Jenniferag]

Thank you! It's the best I can do

 

[bexxx]

wow thanks for all the advice ill definatly start doing more of these exercises in the gym especially as the equiptment is all there waiting =] x

 

[Steve]

man i feel so blessed being on this form with all the professionals..

The fact that I'm a professional is funny to you? I'm not sure I understand... what am I missing?

on another note just do what works for you..

If people knew what worked for them, we wouldn't be facing a mounting obesity epidemic. We wouldn't have forums where tens of thousands of people come to learn from either professionals or experienced folks.

i think allot of people are here to loose weight..

Possibly. I'm more inclined to think a lot of people are here to lose weight, personally.

If you loose body fat % you will look more toned simple as that..

Which was never in question. What was in question was if calisthenics alone, over the long run, provided sufficient stimulus for muscle maintenance while dieting.

That's something entirely different.

doing pushups will "pop" any muscle just for the simple fact of blood flows to the muscle..

Which is a temporary phenomenon that matters little in terms of actual hypertrophy.

to build muscle you half to stress it and break it down and this day and age a push up can do that with how out of shape people are "me included" so when pushups stop working switch to something else...

Now that's something I can agree with.

 

[Steve]

I'll think I'll give up now.....however

Bexxx- keep us updated on your progress and let me know what has worked for you

Thank you Primevci for your help

On a happy note.......... I'm glad to maybe kind of, sort of hear that I lost some body fat..... even though I didn't gain any real muscle???
I think... LOL

You gained muscle IF your body weight in the pushups provided a stimulus that was beyond it's current homeostatic level. If it was, you probably did gain some muscle at first. But since you were in a calorie deficit (I'm assuming) it wasn't anything drastic.

Building muscle is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. If you're short changed on energy (which, by definition is the case while in a calorie deficit), even if you're exercising above the homeostatic level, you're not going to build substantial muscle.

Unless you're using drugs, lol.

 

[Steve]

Hey one other question I have.. I do weight training 2 to 3 full body's a week but im also eating less then my maintenance calories how can i build muscle while "for lack of a better term" dieting? im doing it just to try not to loose to much Lean muscle.. although my strength and definition has improvement..

That's just it. See my previous post.

Very de- or untrained folks and/or folks carrying a hefty chunk of fat can see concurrent body comp changes where fat is being loss due to the energy deficit and muscle is being built as well.

But the muscle growth isn't going to be to any great degree. And you're right, what you should be banking for is for maintenance. Not growth. If growth actually happens, all the better.

And again, the more untrained or fat you are, the more likely you are to see growth while dieting... assuming you're training appropriately.

dont let anyone tell you you are doing something wrong if its working...

I'm not one to discredit someone's efforts. Not in the least. I am one to educate though. Though it might not be apparent in this thread, after over 17,000 posts on this great community, the vast majority of people appreciate the insight. I'm certainly not a know it all. I can't fix cars, I can't cook, I'm not great at spelling, I'm directionally challenged and a host of other weaknesses. The sciences dealing with physiology, nutrition, and everything else pertaining to fitness happen to be something I've dedicated my life to understanding.

So it's not about highlighting people's wrongness. Rather, it's helping them understand why things actually work the way they work so they can a) make even better decisions going forward and b) help spread the good word.

 

[Primevci]

Sorry about the miss spelling there glad you could quote it, for no other fact than to point it out.. and im sure i would act the same way if i seen someone installing pipe wrong pointing out everything there doing wrong and telling them it does not work because its not the way i learned it or do it.. thank you for answering my question on the the maintenance of the muscle while dropping fat...

 

[Steve]

Sorry about the miss spelling there glad you could quote it, for no other fact than to point it out..

Were you or were you not being "an ass" when you made this remark:

man i feel so blessed being on this form with all the professionals..

If so, don't dish it if you're not down with getting some in return.

If not, then I'll offer an apology. A lot gets lost in translation using this medium of exchange.

and im sure i would act the same way if i seen someone installing pipe wrong pointing out everything there doing wrong and telling them it does not work because its not the way i learned it or do it..

As applicable you believe this comparison is to this instance... it's not.

I could tell you the earth if flat because that's how I learned it, right? But that's not what I'm doing here. It's not about what I learned.

Rather, I'm saying, "yes, the earth may appear flat given your current lens, but if you actually use the available technology available to us, you'd be surprised to see that it's anything but flat.

All I'm saying is the available science does not suggest things are happening for the reasons some are claiming in the context of "toning."

Yeah, whatever works works, right? Who cares why or how it's actually working?

Well I do. And like I noted elsewhere... most folks in my 4 or 5 years of being on this board actually care too. If this is one of those cases where you don't care... so be it.

I'll butt out.

thank you for answering my question on the the maintenance of the muscle while dropping fat...

No problem.

 

[Primevci]

No i was not why are you so sensitive? Im genuinely glad people like you are here, I understand you wanting to educate everyone but you also need to not discourage if that makes any sense, Like a person feels awesome sees results feels good that they stuck to something "calisthenics" and someone comes along and says your doing it wrong.. it probably discourages a little bit.. where as for me if someone would post something like hey im stuck and such and such weight anyone have suggestions then it would be great to post info.. or when someone post there idea to to the OP you seem to tear down that persons post instead of just giving your opinion to the OP...

 

[Steve]

Thanks for your opinion. For your future reference, I'm generally not speaking as a matter of opinion when I'm speaking about exercise physiology. And when I am, I'm typically sure to notate such.

I get what you're saying. This community is definitely about coddling more than it is about science. I'm not the cheerleader type, unfortunately. That said, I'm definitely not interested in demoralizing anyone either. From the mile high view, I feel that I (and a few others around here) balance out the equilibrium a bit so that the integrity of information is, in fact, maintained.

I've made a living off of separating the wheat from the chaff in the fitness industry. My hard headed approach is what I attribute most of my success to in terms of reaching people. Plus, most folks who've been here for any appreciable length of time understand I'm here to help. Not offend or belittle. That said though...

Newer folks don't know my history. When being exposed to it right off the bat, I'm sure it can be a little unsettling. I try to keep that in mind but admittedly my information doesn't always come across as such.

Would this have been more to your liking?

"I'm glad to see that you're interested in focusing on your muscles opposed to focusing solely on the scale and body fat. At the end of the day, it's the reflection in the mirror, our health and performance that matter most. Optimizing these attributes entails a broad based approach that maximizes fat loss and minimizes muscle loss.

I'd like for you to know that toning, as most people know it, isn't technically possible. Your muscles and fat are very separate tissues.

Fat is lost in a pattern that's predetermined by your genetics. Knowing this, we can't selectively make one area of our body lean by focusing on it with targeted exercises.

And with muscle... a muscle either grows or it doesn't and even when it does grow... if there's an excess of fat covering it, the growth isn't going to do much in terms of toning you up.

Losing fat is pretty easy, relatively speaking. Invoke a calorie deficit by assuring your consuming less calories than you're expending. Obviously the foods that comprise said calories is vitally important as well... but that's beyond the scope of this post.

Maintaining muscle is a bit trickier. Really it's not, but many people are misinformed about how this is *best* accomplished. The two tools that are at our disposal for maximizing muscle maintenance is eating adequate protein and resistance training.

Adequate protein is sort of vague and the science is all over the place with this. One thing is certain... the RDA guidelines are outdated. .8g/kg are likely too low for most active folks. I'd much sooner suggest aiming for 1 gram per pound of goal bodyweight.

Eating adequate protein lessens the chances of your body turning to it's stored protein (muscles) for energy utilization.

With resistance training, it really comes down to giving your muscles a reason to stick around in the face of an energy (calorie) shortage. Many folks have been fed misinformation about how to best approach resistance training. And one thing's for certain, there are a few ways to skin a cat.

Where to optimally start will depend on your starting point. If you've never resistance trained before, sticking with some basic body weight exercises (calisthenics) would be the perfect starting point. Understand though that you need to progressively challenge your body. Eventually your bodyweight will not be sufficient and that's when turning to external resistance (barbells, dumbbells, bands, kettlebells, etc) becomes critical.

If you don't increase the challenge to your muscles, you're not giving them a reason to adapt positively."

Generally speaking, when I'm coming across as hard headed, there's a method to my madness. It certainly doesn't work for everyone, but my experience after all these years on message boards is this - if I create some "ripples" in the ingrained perceptions and beliefs that have been established from a corrupt industry... it generally gets people to switch gears more readily than when I coddle them.