This guy is the cutting master
- Thread starter davidjr74
- Start date
yea those warning labels on the side telling you not to take more then 1 a day should totally be ignored
So you're saying that the amount of muscle you build is not proportional to the number of cals you are over maintenance?
Or are you highlighting that there is a point where increased cals above maintenance results in inefficient bulking?
I will concede that the amount of fat he had gained (which, is not as much as it appears, if you read the entire source thread) may not have been entirely necessary to achieve his results (i.e he may have been able to achieve the same muscle with less fat gained), but it got the job done.
While some people who do not eat in a surplus wonder why they find it hard to build any appreciable muscle...
Or are you highlighting that there is a point where increased cals above maintenance results in inefficient bulking?
I will concede that the amount of fat he had gained (which, is not as much as it appears, if you read the entire source thread) may not have been entirely necessary to achieve his results (i.e he may have been able to achieve the same muscle with less fat gained), but it got the job done.
While some people who do not eat in a surplus wonder why they find it hard to build any appreciable muscle...
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Thats exactly what I'm saying, just because the fatter you are does not mean the more muscle you have.
Say there are 2 people.
Person A: Has a mainteance of 2000 cals, to bulk efficiently without gaining too much fat he needs to eat 2500( made up number ). He is able to gain muscle at a reasonable pace while keeping fat gains down.
Person B: Same mainteance level, eats 3000 cals. Person B will gain 1 more lb of fat than person A but both will have gain muscle at the same pace, person b is just eating too much in a surplus and the body is storing the unused energy as fat.
The body only needs so many calories for the energy to produce muscle tissue, anything else gets stored.
I was reading through this guy's journal on the thread he made at bodybuilding.com and he said:
"I eat carbs in the morn and around my workout. The rest of the day, my diet basically consists of lean meat and lots of Veggies."
I need to know.... why doesn't he consider veggies carbs????
Nobody else on the forum asked about it either... Am I missing something?!?!
"I eat carbs in the morn and around my workout. The rest of the day, my diet basically consists of lean meat and lots of Veggies."
I need to know.... why doesn't he consider veggies carbs????
Nobody else on the forum asked about it either... Am I missing something?!?!
Because veggies are primarily fiberous.
So this is highlighting the difference between starchy carbs and fibrous carbs.
Generally the restriction of carbs in a fat loss diet refers to starchy carbs (potato, rice, oats, yams, bread) while fibrous carbs (broccoli, cauliflower, etc.) are generally accepted.
the fibrous carbs are generally characterized as low calorie high fibre foods...
I have often been confused as to where to draw the line... I think beans are considered as a fibrous carb, carrots too... but I have previously had to think twice on these
Generally the restriction of carbs in a fat loss diet refers to starchy carbs (potato, rice, oats, yams, bread) while fibrous carbs (broccoli, cauliflower, etc.) are generally accepted.
the fibrous carbs are generally characterized as low calorie high fibre foods...
I have often been confused as to where to draw the line... I think beans are considered as a fibrous carb, carrots too... but I have previously had to think twice on these
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I still have been thinking about the carbs and veggies thing..
By fibrous you mean it has fiber in it right? Not enough fiber to make there be no net carbs though. I still don't understand why he wouldn't consider veggies carbs..
You lost me. Fish, chicken, and meat are all proteins, fruits and veggies are carbs.
There is like 25 carbs in one banana. Why would you not consider it a carb?
So when you are figuring out your macronutrient ratios where would you stick all of the carbs that you get from veggies and fruits if they aren't carbs? I don't get it...
They are different. Fish is used more during certain points in dieting. (like getting closer to a contest)
Meat is used more during other points in a diet. (after a show, when fat content is no big deal and increasing mass is important)
Many veggies have a negligible amount of carbs. So they are not carbs. Even then some veggies are eaten when preparing for a show, others are not. It is different in the off season when trying to increase muscular size.
Fruits are in their own category because they are primarily sugar.
A lot of body builders and fitness competitors do not figure out macronutrient ratios. They base everything off of portion sizes of each of the food groups. (the groups I mentioned earlier)
Figuring out all of the macronutrient details is too much of a pain for anyone who has a real life to keep in order. Time is an issue.
It is just how the nutrition issue is address by many people.
thanks for all the info.. I didn't know any of that.
You said how fish and red meat are primarily used... how about chicken?
And with the no carb thing again. Do ketogenic or atkins type diets (no/low carb diets) allow fruits and veggies in them? In unlimited quantities? Or do those diets consider fruits and veggies carbs?
You said how fish and red meat are primarily used... how about chicken?
And with the no carb thing again. Do ketogenic or atkins type diets (no/low carb diets) allow fruits and veggies in them? In unlimited quantities? Or do those diets consider fruits and veggies carbs?
Sry. I meant that fish and red meat are used more in those periods of diet. Chicken is a standard that can be used pretty consistently.
Say you are eating a lot of red meat and you are gaining BF a little too fast. Chicken can be substituted for the red meat and a large amount of fat calories are avoided.
These are general things as well. I had a BB friend in Ohio who would add in red meat during his contest prep if he was getting too lean too soon.
A lot has to do with small adjustments if things are not going quite to plan.
I really do not know anything about those types of diets. I know fruits are not going to be unlimited, because a lot of fruit means a lot of sugar.
Veggies are generally used as freebies in most types of diets. If you are seriously dieting then you will pick and choose the veggies you eat. For instance -
I know people who eat asparagus when dieting down because it helps you hold less water than other veggies.
There are a lot of little things like that that different people do for a better result.
Thanks for all that info man, Rep given. Especially about the different types of proteins, I had no clue. Definitely a good thing to know.
If anybody knows if veggies are fine in ketogenic diets i'd really like to know though! If they are, i've been on a ketogenic diet for a number of months without even knowing it!
If anybody knows if veggies are fine in ketogenic diets i'd really like to know though! If they are, i've been on a ketogenic diet for a number of months without even knowing it!