The 4-Hour Body

[ChefChiTown]

Yes, I'm a new member. No, I'm not a paid crony of the 4HB guy. I'm thinking of buying the book, and a search engine query for "4 Hour Body Results" pulls this thread up relatively early.

I'm a curious person by nature, so I take interest in random tidbits of information and investigate them further. Anywho...

I did a search for "4 Hour Body Results" on various search engines (Google, Yahoo!, Altavista, Bing, etc) and this thread wasn't even on the first 10 pages of results on any of those engines. A totally different thread on this forum was found...but not this one.

I'm not sure why Jericho and some others are so intent on bashing this book.

I think you're misreading what people are saying (including myself). Nobody is bashing the book. If it helps, great. And, nobody here is denying that people may be finding help from this book. Nobody is arguing that and nobody is bashing the book.

What people are saying is that nothing found in this book is new. It's all recycled material that can A) be found on the Internet for free, B) learned in basic high school health class and C) often be considered common sense.

The book isn't magic, nor does it contain any amazing bits of information that can't be found in a million other places. And, for some reason, people are getting defensive about it, taking it as "bashing the book" instead of what it really is - a point of view.

I was intrigued by the author when he appeared on Dr. Oz's show this past Monday, especially where Dr. Oz said that his medical team thoroughly researched the book, and that they confirmed many of the author's assertions and couldn't disprove any.

Dr. Oz is an entertainer. Yes, he is a licensed doctor who has years of medical experience, but he is an entertainer. Emeril Lagasse was a professional chef with years of experience before he got "Emeril Live" (hell, he even had a different cooking show on the same network before that), but when he was filming "Emeril Live", he wasn't a chef...he was an entertainer.

I work from home, so I have seen Dr. Oz a few times (I know, I know ). Is he entertaining? Sometimes. Are bits of information he shares with his audience sometimes interesting? Yeah, they are. Would I take anything he says as the word of God? Hell no. Not even close.

He is an entertainer. His job is to get people to watch his show, even if it means that the information he gives his audience isn't necessarily the best. The information he gives on his show may be helpful to a certain degree, but it's not meant to be helpful - it's meant to be entertaining, captivate his audience and get ratings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he just have Rachael Ray on his show, pushing information about kids' health? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to take advice from Rachael Ray when it comes to my child's health. Anyway, he doesn't run his show - the producers do. And, if the producers want him to sell something, whether it be a product or an idea, then he will do it...because that's his job.

So, just because something shows up on Dr. Oz, it doesn't mean that it's excellent medical advice.

 

[Melancholy]

mjs, you said "biased forum"...isn't that a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy? A forum by nature, is a compilation of individual opinions...if you want to only listen to experts, then go hire a personal trainer, a dietician, and a doctor for several-thousand dollars/ year. A forum is a combination of information that people read, combined with personal experience... there is no such thing as an un-biased forum.

 

[Jeanette401]

SB - I have to admit I'm curious about the BAT stuff too. However, when I tried searching for studies done on this I couldn't come up with anything to really support it. I've thought about trying it, although the idea of running to the corner store to grab two bags of ice several times a week to pull this off and then freezing my tootsies off for this is making it easy to postpone experimenting with it.

There was another option that involved a cold pack on your traps for 20 minutes (or something like that, I read the section in CostCo) that I've at least considered. And ice baths after a workout have been shown to be good for muscle recovery... just... how good? 500 calories a day extra seems like an awful lot, especially given that BMR of individuals doesn't have that much variation...

And I have to agree with Melancholy - of course people have biases. That's what experience is all about. If you want research, you go to PubMed. If you want to talk about this stuff, come here. But honestly, I don't know how much the 'experts' really know given that they seem to disagree with each other (are carbs good or bad!) and certainly have yet to come up with a solution to obesity yet.

I think that 4HB is certainly a valid weight loss approach, but some of the decisions are arbitrary and based on what worked best for a single individual. I dislike using anecdote (the grapefruit juice + squats as an example) in place of actual scientific understanding. Demonizing insulin also way oversimplifies things, even though restricting carbs (and especially refined carbs) is an excellent way to restrict calories and eat more nutrient dense food.

 

[Melancholy]

SB - I have to admit I'm curious about the BAT stuff too. However, when I tried searching for studies done on this I couldn't come up with anything to really support it. I've thought about trying it, although the idea of running to the corner store to grab two bags of ice several times a week to pull this off and then freezing my tootsies off for this is making it easy to postpone experimenting with it.

Yeah. I typically go to the spa a couple of times a week with either the wife, or the nieghbors...the pool (as I was mentioning) is about 52 degrees right now.... sooooo I have been doing about 30 mins in the spa (till I usually am sweating), and then going over to the pool for some time. First: I jumped in the pool with a dive... wow... that was a mistake .... I lasted maybe about 2 minutes after doing that... but pain set in. Next: I started in the pool relatively slowly, and then eventually ended up around neck height, but I have had to keep my arms out of the pool.. having the hands/ arms submerged results in extreme pain in the arms/hands...it was crazy. With the arms out, I have been able to stay in for several minutes... but the ice bath. I just don't think that I can hang. I think that I would get all the way in the bath, and would end up staying in the tub for 40 seconds haha.. wasting 5 bucks worth of ice. I don't know. I will find out if I can stay in the pool for about 10 minutes eventually (my goal)...

In terms of weight loss... I was one of the lowest weights of my adult life today... 167. I have been doing the pool dip 2x/ week for the last 2 weeks, and doing 4-hour body "slow carb" diet for a couple of weeks (it's just another low GI/ low GC), but I have been adding the cheat day. So I don't know what helped get my body past the plateau.. I don't know if it was the cheat-day, the cold-water thing... I have no idea

 

[Jeanette401]

LOL - nice on the cold water. Although maybe going from the spa directly to the pool makes it worse? I can see myself getting in the ice bath and lasting for the 30 seconds and then going "Screw this! I'll lose weight more slowly!"

I think the 'cheat' day is helpful. I read through (but didn't put into practice because it was too tough!) Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss, and even though you're eating very low carb (pretty much you eat lean protein and fibrous low cal vegetables and nothing else) he also includes two carb 'refeed' days a week to help keep things balanced.

Also, I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence that if you're one of the people who goes from fat to 'squishy fat' i.e. the fat fills with water, and then loses in a big 'woosh', then having a high calorie day can be the trigger that empties the water from the cells. Apparently it's part of why people can plateau and have a 4 lb weight loss even though they the calorie maths say a lb a week.

Also - asparagus can help drain the water from you too (As can alcohol!) Then again, I think the whole point of 4HB wasn't that it was scientifically better than any of the other diets out there, just that it's a path that seems maintainable and not too stupid to work.

Have you tried the grapefruit juice + squats thing? That one still doesn't make sense to me...

I may start monitoring my weight/bodyfat daily this week and plan on testing out the 'ice pack on the traps' thing for a week to see if I actually do lose more fat... I think the tricky part will be eating the exact same things/amount on the experiment week as on the 'control' week.

 

[ChefChiTown]

SB - I have to admit I'm curious about the BAT stuff too.

 

[Melancholy]

LOL - nice on the cold water. Although maybe going from the spa directly to the pool makes it worse?

You know, I don't know about this actually. If you have ever sat in the spa for a long time, your body temp tends to go up.... I still sweat after getting out of the spa for about 15-20 mins. The initial contact with the cold water is more shocking, but the water is so cold, the shock only lasts seconds before the numbing sets in (sounds appealing eh? haha)

I think the 'cheat' day is helpful.

the cheat day is friggin' awesome. I don't feel cheated at all during the week anymore... all I think is, "I have the weekend to look forward to eating. One funny thing that has turned up since I started doing the cheat day.. I get bummed at the end of the night on the cheat day, when I know it's over.

Also, I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence that if you're one of the people who goes from fat to 'squishy fat' i.e. the fat fills with water, and then loses in a big 'woosh', then having a high calorie day can be the trigger that empties the water from the cells. Apparently it's part of why people can plateau and have a 4 lb weight loss even though they the calorie maths say a lb a week.

wow, that is pretty interesting. I just spent some time looking this up...

Have you tried the grapefruit juice + squats thing? That one still doesn't make sense to me...

no way... ice baths is crazy enough for me, let along trying to do anything else gimicky haha

I may start monitoring my weight/bodyfat daily this week and plan on testing out the 'ice pack on the traps' thing for a week to see if I actually do lose more fat... I think the tricky part will be eating the exact same things/amount on the experiment week as on the 'control' week.

I would be really interersted to see how this pans out. I am just not dilligent enough to measure body fat, etc. I have noticed that I have lost quite a bit of fat specifically this last couple of weeks. Evidenced by the new amount of relatively loose skin on my tummy (pronounced tum-ehhhhh).

 

[Jeanette401]

Hehe. Good on the loosened up tumm-eh! I have one of the bf reading scales, but I normally don't use it all that often. It's not all that accurate, and retaining water can make it fluctuate a lot. Still, it might be interesting to look at the #s every day and see what happens. I have a hard time believing I'll see double the amount of fat loss in a week, but that's why you do experiments to disprove things, right! ... the repeating the meals will definitely be the hardest part.

Ice pack on the traps sounds way better than 10 lbs of ice in the bath though!

Incidentally, do you get hungrier after the cold water sessions? That was another study I came across, that a lot of people eat more after swimming in colder water.

 

[Melancholy]

Do you get hungrier after the cold water sessions? That was another study I came across, that a lot of people eat more after swimming in colder water.

I don't get hungrier... I always struggle with hunger, in fact... I am hugry right now! And it's 11am on the west coast here.

I typically have my worst hunger at night...sometimes insatiable. I can eat 800 calories from 7am - 4pm, and 1000 calories from 4pm-bedtime (that's just the way I am wired).

I have been falling asleep faster after being in the cold water though. I don't go straight from cold --> bed like in the book, but I have noticed that I can relax. Granted, this has only been 2 weeks, so I am skeptical to correlate anything right now!

 

[Jeanette401]

Hehe, yeah. That's the problem - you don't have a parallel dimension (or even a twin!) to run the "What if I hadn't done this" to compare results with! It's so hard to know what the results would be without the cold since you've got nothing to compare with.

I've been trying to train myself to ignore hunger signals after I declare cut off (generally because I'm at my calorie limit) but I really could eat another 1000 calories pretty easily. My hubby is always amazed that I can out-eat him when we go to an Indian restaurant - but I really have a large capacity for food. That's why filling up on veggies works for him, where I really have to watch my total calories or I'll just eat 2/3 veggies which ends up being tooo much. ... Especially if it's okra for some reason, I feel like I could eat virtually unlimited amounts of oven roasted, slightly crispy okra...

 

[Melancholy]

haha... okra... random

That's EXACTLY how I am (you said can eat a ton). I can limit to 1800 calories, but if I go all out (Vegas buffet style) I can take down several-thousand for sure.

I actually do fill up on veggies though. I make a conscious effort to eat a lot of healthy veggies with every meal. And so far it has worked well.

 

[Jericho]

Veggies (not cooked in a bunch of butter or such) is a great low calories filler. Tried and true method and I'm happy you are doing it!!!

Keep up the good work, both of you.

 

[Jeanette401]

Yah, filling up on veggies is good! It's just that it doesn't necessarily mean I'm full! Although I admit when we ended up with some sirloins from CostCo that were over a lb a piece I did not finish mine. ... Not that I couldn't have, I just wasn't hungry any more so left the rest.

And I did have the veggies with that first to help as filler!

But if someone had brought out a pan of brownies after that I probably still could have eaten a substantial amount. And if there'd been some other food... well, there's a reason I actually pay attention to my calories instead of just relying on my body to send the message that I've had enough. My body can always make room for just a little more Buffets are not my best weight loss friend!

 

[dave_C1]

Rule 1: Avoid "white" carbohydrates (or anything that can be white).
makes sense, white suggests refined, means your losing out

Rule 2: Eat the same few meals over and over again.
depends on the meals, and depends on what it means by over and over again

Rule 3: Don't drink calories.
logical, calories in drinks are usually from alcohol, pop, or variable other "bad" sources, though this does mean no more fruit smoothies which is a bit off

Rule 4: Don't eat fruit.
iv been told this before but its bull, sorry, any diet that tells you not to eat fruit loses my interest straight away.

Rule 5: Take one day off per week and go nuts.
yes and no, its a good idea to have a day off but when he says go nuts..... chocolate, sugar, cheeses on mass, no sorry the fat cells are still there and they are very easy to refill. so no

so from that list of 5 rules 2.5 are correct, wouldn't go anywhere near it. but then those rules could be diluted or refined in the main book. so cant really say.

first impression is bad though

 

[ChefChiTown]

Rule 1: Avoid "white" carbohydrates (or anything that can be white).
makes sense, white suggests refined, means your losing out

Why are you 'losing out' if you eat WHITE carbohydrates? Because they're not as big as BLACK carbohydrates? Maaaaan, that's racist.

 

[artdobber]

I just wanted to post my experience as a reference on a slightly modified Slow Carb Diet.

40 yr old male. 6'1" Tall. Starting weight 308. Weight at 20 years old 185. Goal is to lose 100.

I have more or less been on the 4HB/Slow Carb Diet for 3 weeks. In those 3 weeks I have lost 21 lbs. Now, at least 5-6 of those pounds were the easy early pounds that fall off within a day or two of eating better. Also, this same time last year as part of a Biggest Loser contest I lost a similar amount on a simple low calorie + exercise approach, so it's not like the 4HB diet is the only way I can dump a lot of pounds in a short period.

I also had a physical, blood test and stress test performed in the past few weeks to serve as a baseline. In about 5 weeks I will have another blood test to know the effects on Cholesterol etc. Stress test was great.

My approach to the 4HB diet is to view it in conjunction with Dr Davis' "No Wheat" diet on (link removed). So, my basic approach is to use the basics of the 4HB which is "nothing white", along with the Dr. Davis "Nothing Wheat" as the overriding principle... but I adopt the "one cheat day" from 4HB just because it keeps me from totally falling off the wagon when I do cheat.

The difference for me with this diet is that I have no problem with being hungry. I eat a lot of beans and that probably helps. But most of all, I eat things that I really like and don't get bored with. I don't worry about the overall quality of the food (high fat, organic, canned etc). I just worry about whether the food meets the overall profile of not being white or wheat.

Here's my standard diet:

Breakfast: 2 eggs sunny side up and Coffee.

Lunch: Bean with Bacon soup (Campbells) or Chili (Canned or Home Made) and maybe a slice of bologna or cut up hot dog. Water.

Dinner: Chili, or a Taco Salad (with cheese), or if we are eating a family meal I will eat the meat with a side of peas and cold pork and beans. Water.

Snacks: Peanuts in the shell (cause you can't eat them fast when you have to shell them or a bannana.

Cheat Day: I just eat what "my old self" would have typically eaten that day. I don't gorge but I eat along with the rest of the family, which on a Saturday usually means fast food for lunch and pizza for dinner. I still try to eat my 2 eggs in the morning.

That's it. It's worked for me so far. But the most important thing is that after 3 weeks I'm not sick of this diet at all. I've been playing around with Chili recipes and am having fun with it.

Exercise: None. Although this week I'm going to try the kettle bell swing thing.

For what it's worth, I think this still boils down to a calorie in/calorie out kind of thing, but my food selection lets me be full without consuming a lot of calories. I don't buy the "eat as much as you want as long as it's the right stuff" line of thinking. BTW, I do not care for almost all fruits and vegies except Bananas, corn, potatoes, peas beans and lettuce.

Have any questions.. ask away.

 

[Jeanette401]

I'll be very curious to see your results in 5 weeks - there are studies that show that processed meats like the hot dogs and bologna have a high correlation with risk of diabetes and heart disease. Then again, losing 21 lbs should have a very good impact on you - much like the twinkie diet guy was better off eating 'crap' and losing the weight than he was being heavier and eating health food

Isn't four hour body no cheese though? Oh wait, you're also eating bananas which are against the 'no fruit' principle of 4HB so it's one of your modifications for slow carb, got it!

I think there's nothing wrong with cutting way back on the refined or 'fast' carbs and since I've been going wheat free for the past 3 weeks I've definitely noticed it has an impact on my calories.

My favorite chili recipe to date - ground turkey, cane of Herdez green salsa, great white northern beans, diced onions, plus seasonings - chile powder, cumin etc. Oh, and of course some LF mexican cheese mixed in at the end. It looks pretty pasty if you don't brown the turkey first though, but it's good!

Sweet potato > potato though

 

[shrinkingLeon]

As I said before, this diet isn't for everyone, but it's worked for me. XL clothes are beginning to get too big for me, and I'm on track to finally lose 100 pounds. I learned what foods were hindering me and making me plateau (I love almonds, but like Lays, I bet you just can't eat one!), and I cut back greatly on using salt in the food I cook. As for eating fruit, I usually wait until my cheat day. I love tangerines and strawberries and honeydew, so I figure it's worth the wait if I can wait until then.

Avoiding refined sugar and flour are the basic principles to this diet, so it really isn't too different from a lot of other diets out there.

Another thing that has helped me is eating a healthy breakfast before a workout on cheat days. I'm not as tempted to indulge in my cravings when I do that.

I know Tim Ferriss, the 4-Hour Body, and this diet/lifestyle change in general seem to be quite controversial and a lightning rod for criticism, but I've learned everything isn't for everyone, and that's fine. I finally found something that I can generally stick to and not feel deprived and the results speak for themselves:

Before:

View attachment 13928

View attachment 13929

"During"

View attachment 13930

View attachment 13931

 

[vespergirl]

Hey everyone, I know it's been a couple of weeks, but I just wanted to check in again with my results - I've been on the diet for about 3 and a half weeks, and I've lost 8 pounds total. I lost 5 pounds the first week, then I plateaud for 2 weeks (female hormonal stuff) but then this past week I lost 3 pounds.

I am female, and I'm 5'9" tall, goal weight around 148. I started the diet at 167 pounds in January, and now I weigh 159.

My measurements when I started were:
Bust: 40
Waist: 32
Hips: 42
Thighs: 23

My measurements this morning are:
Bust: 38.5
Waist: 29.5
Hips: 40.5
Thighs: 21.5

So, I've lost 8 pounds and 8.5 inches total off my body in less than a month, and I am down from a size 10 to a size 8 jeans. My original goal weight was to get down to 148, but now I'm going to try to get down to 145 and hopefully fit into the size 6 jeans I used to wear two kids ago when I was first dating my husband.

I have to admit the slow-carb diet is a little boring, but I am really enjoying my cheat days & only gain back 1 or 2 pounds after each, and then that weight is gone in 2 days. I have to say that avoiding sugar and white starches has really eliminated most of my cravings for that stuff. I am missing fruit though, especially apples (I used to eat them every day). Once I reach my goal weight I'm going to start eating fruit every day again if it doesn't make me gain. I also think that giving up dairy is one of the best things I have done for my health, and I was a HUGE cheese eater before - usually about 2 ounces a day. So, now I just have cheese, chocolate and fried chicken on my Saturday cheat days, and that's been working out OK.

I've been working out much less than I used to (15-20 minutes 3 days a week instead of 30-45 minutes 6 days a week) & am mostly using the kettlebell & doing a lot less cardio. I think I'm less hungry because I'm running less.

I'm not doing the ice bath thing at all (it seemed counterintuitive to me, because I have lived in northern climates, & I feel like I my body usually holds on to more fat in the winter when it's cold) but we do keep our house at around 65 degrees, & it feels really cold in here, so maybe that counts like the ice packs

I'll post more results in a couple of weeks ...

 

[Melancholy]

It's been 3 weeks since I started doing this 4HB in place of my South Beach Diet I was doing (the main diet is VERY similar)... and this last weekend was rough. At first, I really liked the "cheat" day, but after 3 weeks now, I am beginning to dislike it more and more. There are a couple of things wrong with it:

1. It ruins any semblance of "moderation"... he tells you to eat however much, of whatever you want... I have been doing this. But what it causes (me at least) to do is just literally pig out on foods that I don't even eat normally.. it's almost like once I start gorging, I feel obligated to eat anything and everything... This is not healthy. It's okay to have a cookie every now and then, but it's not okay to have 20 cookies on one day, because it's a "cheat day" haha...

2. Makes me feel crappy...this is not just mental... from pigging out, I LITERALLY feel crappy... my GI tract is all messed up. I get a headache, my running routine suffers.. it's crazy. It's almost like bing hung-over, but with food...

3. At least for me, it makes me crave that junk-food more. I have been on the South Beach diet for 5 months now prior to 4HB, and after a couple of months on SB, I didn't have cravings to go eat sweets and cookies... now that I have been doing 4HB for a few weeks, they have come back... why? because I am eating more than I ever did, even before my diet. Now when Monday comes around (the day after my cheat day)... I find myself thinking about the treats, and savory, fattening foods moe.

My conclusion, is that it's not a great diet for a person that is like me. Since Tim Ferris used a population of 1 (himself) to draw conclusions, I am going to do the same (me). I think if you have great self-control, then this diet is fine... if you are like me, prone to going overboard when eating foods that taste good, and are fatty... this diet makes actually dieting harder. I was doing great on SB, and still am doing okay on 4HB, but it's more of a mental battle now then it was before.

I am going to give it another week, for one month total, and see where my weight is. I have lost a couple of pounds, but I was already losing weight, and now it's taking more effort!