seeking advice from those who know

C

cym

New member
Okay guys, I need some harsh truth to help me move forward!

stats: 32 y/o f, 5'3, 127, 19% bf

food and calories: I've been eating at an average of 1900-2100 for about the last 2-3 months without gain/loss so I'm pretty sure that's my current maint. amount.

For a while I experimented with different carb/fat/protein ratios and ended up with a deviation that seems to work for me - both when I was eating to lose and to maintain: sat fat 15 to 20 grams, protein 100-120 grams, fibre 30-35 grams so those are the numbers I shoot for. Except for a protein shake following weight training and these stupid seaweed/rice crackers I am addicted to, I don't do supplements, sugar (real or fake) processed foods and limited red meat.

A pretty ordinary day's worth of food is posted in my food diary for yesterday.

exercise: I work out six days a week with one week off every 8 weeks. The routine changes every 8 weeks, currently I am in the 4th week of: M-upper body, T- 4 mile run W-full body, Th- 4 mile run, F- lower body, S- abs & yoga class.

The problem Only place there is any remaining excess fat is, of course, the tummy area - the rest seems to be pretty solid muscle - literally cannot "pinch an inch" anywhere else on my body. I'm guessing that if I drop another 3-5 lbs that will take care of that.

I want the loss to be, as much as possible, from fat, not lean muscle tissue. In the beginning I wasn't concerned about this cause I was so out of shape I figured I was in that magic metobolic window to gain muscle and lose weight at the same time. But at this point I think the window has closed and I'm reluctant to lose any of the muscle I've worked so darn hard for. Can you suggest the best calorie deficit and any change in exercise routine that will help preserve as much muscle as possible while losing the remaining fat? It doesn't have to be fast...just effective.

Thanks in advance.
 
Are you training for an endurance event? Im asking because of the 4 mile runs.
 
LOL...nah, no endurance races in my near or distant future...I'm just one of those crazy chicks who loves to get up in the morning and run:) ... 4 miles is a daily average but 5 miles is not uncommon...it's the endorphine rush I guess...which I used to think was a myth until I did my first 3 miler and got a dose...now I'm a junkie...in constant pursuit of my runner's high:)
 
I am a fitness consultant and I would love to help you. First of all... CONGRATS on your accomplishments! Now... let's change what you are doing a little. If you have been running for a while (more than 6 weeks) then switch your cardio mode to the elliptical for a few weeks. If you have been running for a while, your body has adapted to that form of exercise and is no longer burning as many calories as it used to. You need to shock your body and make it do something it's not used to. I would also change the format of your workout routine. Try something like: M- arms/core; T- cardio; W- legs/core; TR- cardio; F-chest & back/core; S-cardio. Pick two exercises per muscle group that you have not done before and do those for three weeks, then switch again. Work core in between sets of other exercises, and bust butt cardio for at least 45min. Your nutrition... 1700-1900 calories per day should be enough of a deficit without leaving you starving. You are eating WAY too much protein and fiber... 45-67g protein & 25g fiber are sufficient. Check out my web site for more info... (link removed) I could keep going on this topic for hours and my husband is calling me :)
 
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Advertising your services isn't really what we do here. You want to offer advice and have a link in your signature to your site that is fine, but giving wrong advice AND trying to negotiate a deal to someone looking for advice is tacky.

To the original poster.

I agree with Tony on the 3 day Full body work.

As far as diet you can handle a little more cut in the calories. I would think about doing a carb cycling program or even just a simple calorie bounce. Giving yourself re-feeds is key to keeping your metabolism raised.

As for ratios, if keeping muscle is a concern and just losing fat stick to a 40/20/40 ratio. It is a great start to see where you need to make changes. Maybe you need a little more carbs, maybe a little more protein. Get some calipers to measure body fat if you want to get more technical. Abs are all diet, I think you eat clean enough, so maybe just cut it down a little more in the calories. 20% should be a good start and work it from there as you start seeing results.
 
Hey, thanks for replying...I should have read this first before doing my food diary for the day I guess. And thank you for replying to eringrahm...cause I don't know a lot but I know that advice was pure b.s on many levels....

Okay, so if I understand, your suggestion is around 1500 cals with a little bouncing around between that and my maint. cals? Would a good example be 3 days at 1500, 4th day at 1900, 3 days at 1500, etc?

And I'll give the 40/20/40 a whirl for the month at least and see how that works for me....but I'm already thinking it's going to be more like 40/30/30 cause I keep the sat fat pretty low but I know a lot of what I eat (nuts/avocado/fish/o.oil) is gonna push the total fat ratio up.

I have my body fat% done at the gym (calipers) every two months so that's already covered. It was 19.03% 4 weeks ago.

And, one last question, I have no problem changing to a full body instead of my current upper/full/lower split, but would like to know why you both suggest it - just cause I like to know the "why's" of things.

And again, thanks.
 
eringraham said:
I am a fitness consultant and I would love to help you. First of all... CONGRATS on your accomplishments! Now... let's change what you are doing a little. If you have been running for a while (more than 6 weeks) then switch your cardio mode to the elliptical for a few weeks. If you have been running for a while, your body has adapted to that form of exercise and is no longer burning as many calories as it used to. You need to shock your body and make it do something it's not used to. I would also change the format of your workout routine. Try something like: M- arms/core; T- cardio; W- legs/core; TR- cardio; F-chest & back/core; S-cardio. Pick two exercises per muscle group that you have not done before and do those for three weeks, then switch again. Work core in between sets of other exercises, and bust butt cardio for at least 45min. Your nutrition... 1700-1900 calories per day should be enough of a deficit without leaving you starving. You are eating WAY too much protein and fiber... 45-67g protein & 25g fiber are sufficient. Check out my web site for more info... [snip link] I could keep going on this topic for hours and my husband is calling me :)
Click to expand...

Wow, let me be blunt please. This is horrible advice considering you are a "fitness consultant."

Too much protein? Are you kidding me? Have you read modern studies on sufficient protein intakes? Especially when caloric deficits are expected!

A day just for arms training? Why?

Do you know anything about the fatigue/fitness curve and capturing supercompensation periods? There are a million ways to train, I understand, but this is about as far from optimal that I have seen. This is something I would expect one of my ignorant clients to come to me with.

If energy expenditure is the goal right now, why not HIIT to raise EPOC instead of SS cardio?

I am sorry to be a jerk here, and I must admit, I probably wouldn't have if you did not advertise yourself. There are plenty of "consultants" here that help out greatly, without telling the members to come to their website for more detailed help. We help here, on this forum.

Best to you.
 
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cym said:
Hey, thanks for replying...I should have read this first before doing my food diary for the day I guess. And thank you for replying to eringrahm...cause I don't know a lot but I know that advice was pure b.s on many levels....

Okay, so if I understand, your suggestion is around 1500 cals with a little bouncing around between that and my maint. cals? Would a good example be 3 days at 1500, 4th day at 1900, 3 days at 1500, etc?

And I'll give the 40/20/40 a whirl for the month at least and see how that works for me....but I'm already thinking it's going to be more like 40/30/30 cause I keep the sat fat pretty low but I know a lot of what I eat (nuts/avocado/fish/o.oil) is gonna push the total fat ratio up.

I have my body fat% done at the gym (calipers) every two months so that's already covered. It was 19.03% 4 weeks ago.

And, one last question, I have no problem changing to a full body instead of my current upper/full/lower split, but would like to know why you both suggest it - just cause I like to know the "why's" of things.

And again, thanks.
Click to expand...

You have been handed good advice here. If your macro split ends up being 40/30/30, go with it, that is fine. I am not a fan of macro percentages, find it better to deal with whole numbers. How many grams of proteins, fats, and carbs. You are def. on the right track.

3 days at defict, fourth day at maintenance calories will probably do the trick and keep you body in a state of weight loss. It is unique for everyone though and you will have to experiment. I think it is your best starting point though.

Frequent training of muscle groups is the way to go for the natural lifter. There are a ton of different splits and periodizations in order to fill the need for frequent training, but FB training 3 times per week is a great starting point.
 
I do think it's excellent advice (from both you and steve) - it didn't fall on deaf ears, and I'm adjusting food/exercise plan to incorporate it. I tried (I admit it was a one day trial) hitting the macro percentages with not-so-good success, so I'm going with the gram tracking instead and seeing what the ratios come out to. I expect to have smokin abs by my 33rd birthday (in May) and I'll send you guys...umm a box of chocolates?
 
Ha you temptress! I may have the knowledge but that doesn't mean that a box of chocolates isn't my arch nemesis...but would they have the nuggat? I can't turn down nuggat!
 
cym said:
Okay guys, I need some harsh truth to help me move forward!

stats: 32 y/o f, 5'3, 127, 19% bf

food and calories: I've been eating at an average of 1900-2100 for about the last 2-3 months without gain/loss so I'm pretty sure that's my current maint. amount.

For a while I experimented with different carb/fat/protein ratios and ended up with a deviation that seems to work for me - both when I was eating to lose and to maintain: sat fat 15 to 20 grams, protein 100-120 grams, fibre 30-35 grams so those are the numbers I shoot for. Except for a protein shake following weight training and these stupid seaweed/rice crackers I am addicted to, I don't do supplements, sugar (real or fake) processed foods and limited red meat.

A pretty ordinary day's worth of food is posted in my food diary for yesterday.

exercise: I work out six days a week with one week off every 8 weeks. The routine changes every 8 weeks, currently I am in the 4th week of: M-upper body, T- 4 mile run W-full body, Th- 4 mile run, F- lower body, S- abs & yoga class.

The problem Only place there is any remaining excess fat is, of course, the tummy area - the rest seems to be pretty solid muscle - literally cannot "pinch an inch" anywhere else on my body. I'm guessing that if I drop another 3-5 lbs that will take care of that.

I want the loss to be, as much as possible, from fat, not lean muscle tissue. In the beginning I wasn't concerned about this cause I was so out of shape I figured I was in that magic metobolic window to gain muscle and lose weight at the same time. But at this point I think the window has closed and I'm reluctant to lose any of the muscle I've worked so darn hard for. Can you suggest the best calorie deficit and any change in exercise routine that will help preserve as much muscle as possible while losing the remaining fat? It doesn't have to be fast...just effective.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

based on this info., your daily caloric need is roughly 1800 calories. cut about 500 calories from the diet. if you burn an additional 500-700 calories in the gym 3 times a week, you can expect about a 1lb fat loss per week (you'll lose more weight, however, i.e. water).

watch your calories and especially watch the fat intake. take no more than 15% fat. a general rule is to have no more than 20%, where no more than 10% should come from saturated fat.

don't say that your problem area is in your midsection, as humans generally store fat in the midsection. men store most of it in the abdomen. women mostly store it in the buttocks and thighs.
 
watch your calories and especially watch the fat intake. take no more than 15% fat. a general rule is to have no more than 20%, where no more than 10% should come from saturated fat.
Click to expand...

no more than 15% fat? 20% at most? Where are you getting your nutritional information for this? Good Fats are really key and 15% is way to low for this girls needs.

don't say that your problem area is in your midsection, as humans generally store fat in the midsection. men store most of it in the abdomen. women mostly store it in the buttocks and thighs.
Click to expand...
That is a nice little stereotype you have there. The average person man or woman has a hard time removing fat from their abdominal area as a clean diet plays a very heavy and important role to those last few pounds. Also I believe she would know where she had fat left and seems well informed enough to me based on her questioning alone to see that she may have fat on her abdominals.
 
Leigh P. said:
no more than 15% fat? 20% at most? Where are you getting your nutritional information for this? Good Fats are really key and 15% is way to low for this girls needs.
Click to expand...

i'm talking about weight loss.


Leigh P. said:
That is a nice little stereotype you have there. The average person man or woman has a hard time removing fat from their abdominal area as a clean diet plays a very heavy and important role to those last few pounds. Also I believe she would know where she had fat left and seems well informed enough to me based on her questioning alone to see that she may have fat on her abdominals.
Click to expand...

stereotype? what the hell are you talking about? most of our fat is stored in our midsection, belly for males and buttocks and thighs for women.
 
Should I say it.....sure why not.

You have to eat fat to lose fat! The FDA recommendation is 20-30% of calories from fat. I would take carb cycling over really low fat.

Most fat is stored there sure, but I think she knows if she needs to lose it in a certain place that she is not happy with. Unless you seen pictures??
 
djrell said:
based on this info., your daily caloric need is roughly 1800 calories. cut about 500 calories from the diet. if you burn an additional 500-700 calories in the gym 3 times a week, you can expect about a 1lb fat loss per week (you'll lose more weight, however, i.e. water).

watch your calories and especially watch the fat intake. take no more than 15% fat. a general rule is to have no more than 20%, where no more than 10% should come from saturated fat.

don't say that your problem area is in your midsection, as humans generally store fat in the midsection. men store most of it in the abdomen. women mostly store it in the buttocks and thighs.
Click to expand...


Djrell:

Hi, I'm sure you meant well with your advice but it might have been more helpful if you'd actually read my original post. Since I stated that I knew my maint. calories to be 1900-2100 (since I've been purposely maintaining at that range for 2-3 months), why you suggest lopping 500 cals off of 1800...that would bring me down to 1300 calories a day...and if you read my exercise routine you would understand why that would not be the most sensible route for me to take.

If you read my typical food intake, again I don't understand why you would suggest a cap on total fat at 15%...at 1300 calories and 15% total fat - which essential, healthy fats would you suggest I eliminate - plant based, nuts, seeds, or fish oil?

And please, don't tell me not to say what my problem area is....I don't know (and don't care) where the supposed average woman carries her excess fat...I do know that mine is not in my thighs or in my butt but in my belly.

I have no doubt that if I slashed my calories down to 1300 every day, burned an additional 500-700 3 days a week, I probably would see the scale go down those five pounds fairly quickly. But I already knew there was a wrong way to do it....my purpose for putting my question to the professionals on this area of the forum was to get a game plan going for doing it the right way.
 
Umm, no, not exactly. I've already lost 60 lbs and been maintaining that loss for a couple of months....I'm fairly confident at this point that I know how to "lose weight"...however, having a very small amount of fat left that I want to now get rid of, I wanted to make sure I would take the most muscle sparing approach possible and wasn't sure exactly how. What I actually said in my OP was "Can you suggest the best calorie deficit and any change in exercise routine that will help preserve as much muscle as possible while losing the remaining fat? It doesn't have to be fast...just effective. "

Honestly I wasn't taking potshots at you in my response to your advice, I was just a little irritated (and slightly amused) with your "don't say that your problem area is your mid-section..women mostly store it in the buttocks or thighs" line and got the feeling that you sprouted off some generic advice to me without actually reading my post. But, thank you for taking the time to offer your suggestions.
 
Steve said:
Wow, let me be blunt please. This is horrible advice considering you are a "fitness consultant."

Too much protein? Are you kidding me? Have you read modern studies on sufficient protein intakes? Especially when caloric deficits are expected!

A day just for arms training? Why?

Do you know anything about the fatigue/fitness curve and capturing supercompensation periods? There are a million ways to train, I understand, but this is about as far from optimal that I have seen. This is something I would expect one of my ignorant clients to come to me with.

If energy expenditure is the goal right now, why not HIIT to raise EPOC instead of SS cardio?

I am sorry to be a jerk here, and I must admit, I probably wouldn't have if you did not advertise yourself. There are plenty of "consultants" here that help out greatly, without telling the members to come to their website for more detailed help. We help here, on this forum.

Best to you.
Click to expand...

Here's how you figure your protein requirements!

Research has shown that excess amounts of protein leaches calcium from your bones (which will make them brittle and susceptible to stress fractures) and it causes dehydration.


RDA for sedentary adult 0.8
PRO g/kg BW/day

Physically active adult 1.0
PRO g/kg BW/day

Endurance athlete 1.2 - 1.4
PRO g/kg BW/day

Strength athlete 1.4 - 1.8
PRO g/kg BW/day

Adolescent athlete 1.0 - 2.0
PRO g/kg BW/day

Maximum for adult athletes up to 2.0
PRO g/kg BW/day

Here's all you want to know about the fatigue/fitness curve.


***NOT on my web site... this is just good info if you're really interested.
 
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