Petals diary
- Thread starter Petal001
- Start date
I´m all for polyamory for those who are so inclined but getting multiple people married to one another would make for some very complicated paperwork. As long as you stick with only one main partner with multiple subordinate partners I guess lawyers might be able to figure it out but as soon as you add in equality (when one person can marry mutiple folks who can each marry other people as well) it becomes a tangle. And of course having only people of one gender marry multiple of the other means that the only way the system can be stable is either by getting rid of most of the young people of the first gender or importing young people from the second gender. Both of which sound iffy to me.
alligatorob
Respected Member
That is a big problem.
In the case of the old established polygamous groups here most of the young men are shipped off and dumped somewhere (see Lost boys (Mormon fundamentalism) - Wikipedia or the documentary "Sons of Perdition" ). This leaves teenagers who have no means of support, and usually a very poor education and understanding of the world as homeless on the streets. The main character in HBO's big love was just such a person, he is shown pretty accurately, except that he was able to succeed where most don't. And this gives a lot of power to the cult leaders who get to decide which boys stay and which go, only those perceived as most loyal get to stay.
Some of the even more shadowy cults bring in young women by attracting vulnerable young girls, runaways and the like.
Not all polygamous groups do either of these things. Most probably don't.
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But that´s only possible if you´re ok with having a lot of single guys (in this case) around. Not usually a recipe for a successful society.
Having a marriage between 2 people work is hard enough for me - no thanks to further complications! I knew a 13 year old Mormon priest when I was growing up, and he said to stay away from the Mormon religion - they think women are less evolved than men. I question any form of polygamy or even normal couple marriage where women don't have equal rights and status to men.
Petal001
New member
Rob I must look for that sons of perdition .
Very tired tonight . Busy day again . Just work , homework, garden , usual stuff .
Dinner was a warm bacon salad (lettuce leaves , beetroot,few chopped almonds, chopped apPle and spring onion) with little salad potatoes roasted in the oven followed by a fage fruit purée yoghurt which was delicious .
Very tired tonight . Busy day again . Just work , homework, garden , usual stuff .
Dinner was a warm bacon salad (lettuce leaves , beetroot,few chopped almonds, chopped apPle and spring onion) with little salad potatoes roasted in the oven followed by a fage fruit purée yoghurt which was delicious .
alligatorob
Respected Member
Petal, That does sound good!
You should watch Sons of Perdition, you will never see Sister Wives in quite the same light again.
That may be overstating it a bit, in my experience Mormons don't discriminate against women in many ways, and I don't think they see women as inferior. However much like the Catholics all priests and higher ups in the church are men, so there is some inequality. As I said earlier the Mormon Church banned polygamy over 100 years ago, now they quickly excommunicate polygamists.
My wife is a Utah native, and though not Mormon probably 75% of her relatives are. She had a great grandfather who was polygamous and committed suicide rather than give up his wives when the Church outlawed it. My wife is also a social worker and she has worked with a number of "sister wives", mostly women who have had a bad experience with polygamy. We both have lots of Mormon friends. I like Mormons, if not all of their political positions. And, like all religions that are not mine, I find their beliefs strange.
I agree, on both counts, however if polygamy were legal I think it would be easier to give all parties equal rights. As LaMa said that would be legally complicated, but in some polygamous relationships the consent of all parties is required to bring a new "wife" in. Making it legal could codify that. Also as LaMa points out you can't have many polygamous one man many women families in a stable society. But even if legal I think it would be pretty rare.
To be clear I am anti-polygamy, but I am also libertarian on the issue, if others want to do it consensually without hurting anyone who am I to stop it. I certainly have no interest myself.
Petal001
New member
Have to say I find all the polygamy fascinating. From the shows I have seen and of course they are dramatised for tv there is a huge jealousy element between the wives. Rob your background is fascinating and I enjoy your posts always so full of information.
LaMa I am not a great fan of meat except chicken but I enjoy some bacon at times or beef. The rashers as we call them were medallions so no fat ( although I do like the fat on bacon ) and I cut them up small on the salad. Really tasty .
Cate I will miss salads but I'm sure I'll still eat but maybe with a nice baked potato to warm me up for the winter .
LaMa I am not a great fan of meat except chicken but I enjoy some bacon at times or beef. The rashers as we call them were medallions so no fat ( although I do like the fat on bacon ) and I cut them up small on the salad. Really tasty .
Cate I will miss salads but I'm sure I'll still eat but maybe with a nice baked potato to warm me up for the winter .
Petal, there was a craze here for a while called polyamory where people basically have open relationships, and we knew of a few families who did that. The children seemed very affected, in my opinion. And especially the women seemed to put on a lot of weight or the men smoked like crazy - maybe because of the stress. I feel like alternative lifestyles that aren't supported by the culture are interesting, but I am very glad to be conventional and happy and not have to deal with even more stress in my life!
The rashers in salad sound yummy! We are lucky that a lot of the salad mixes are grown in the fields here nearly year round, so it's almost always salad season.
The rashers in salad sound yummy! We are lucky that a lot of the salad mixes are grown in the fields here nearly year round, so it's almost always salad season.
Petal001
New member
I can buy salad all year round just like warming food in winter. I fancied some comfort food today so I scrambled eggs , fried mushrooms ( low cal spray ) and had baked beans on a small toasted wholemeal roll for lunch .
Those relationships sound very stressful Marsia . Weight gain sure sign of unhappiness
Those relationships sound very stressful Marsia . Weight gain sure sign of unhappiness
I internet-know quite a few happy polyamorous folks but it really only works when everyone involved came to it without being pressured (ie: we can open up our marriage or I can just leave you) and when everyone is willing and able to talk about the complicated stuff. That last part, of course, also being quite important for successful "regular" relationships.
Petal I love the sound of your lunch!
Petal I love the sound of your lunch!
alligatorob
Respected Member
Sons of Perdition is available free here on Amazon Prime, or you can pay $1.99 for it on YouTube. Not sure how or if its available in the rest of the world.
Its a documentary that follows the lives of a few teenagers, mostly boys, in their struggle to get or live away from the United Effort Plan polygamous cult. The UEP is Utah's oldest and largest polygamous sect (separated from the Mormon Church almost 100 years ago with 6,000+ members today). UEP is the name I use for them, the UEP is the corporation that holds most all their money and land. Over the years they have gone by other names.
Sons of Perdition is disturbing to watch, but it is the reality of that life. For the most part only the teenagers appear and speak, all real people telling their real stories. Its mostly teenage boy and young men because they are the ones forced out, most of the girls are married off and have children before they become old enough to escape.
Its a much better representation of the reality of polygamy here than Sister Wives. There are worse sects than the UEP, and there are better ones as well. I know some of the newer, smaller ones are fairly innocuous and don't practice child abuse. Maybe Sister Wives shows some of the better polygamists, or maybe its mostly made up for TV.
The good news is that the UEP cult leader, Warren Jeffs, is now in prison for child sexual abuse (forced marriage of multiple girls as young as 13) and the Utah State attorney general's office appears to be dismantling the old UEP trust. The UEP trust owned most of the land and businesses of the members, it was quite wealthy, the members themselves were not. Now the UEP trust appears to getting disturbed, at least in part, to some of the people who were forced out or left.
No more polygamy posts, I promise. Back to weight loss!
Its a documentary that follows the lives of a few teenagers, mostly boys, in their struggle to get or live away from the United Effort Plan polygamous cult. The UEP is Utah's oldest and largest polygamous sect (separated from the Mormon Church almost 100 years ago with 6,000+ members today). UEP is the name I use for them, the UEP is the corporation that holds most all their money and land. Over the years they have gone by other names.
Sons of Perdition is disturbing to watch, but it is the reality of that life. For the most part only the teenagers appear and speak, all real people telling their real stories. Its mostly teenage boy and young men because they are the ones forced out, most of the girls are married off and have children before they become old enough to escape.
Its a much better representation of the reality of polygamy here than Sister Wives. There are worse sects than the UEP, and there are better ones as well. I know some of the newer, smaller ones are fairly innocuous and don't practice child abuse. Maybe Sister Wives shows some of the better polygamists, or maybe its mostly made up for TV.
The good news is that the UEP cult leader, Warren Jeffs, is now in prison for child sexual abuse (forced marriage of multiple girls as young as 13) and the Utah State attorney general's office appears to be dismantling the old UEP trust. The UEP trust owned most of the land and businesses of the members, it was quite wealthy, the members themselves were not. Now the UEP trust appears to getting disturbed, at least in part, to some of the people who were forced out or left.
No more polygamy posts, I promise. Back to weight loss!
Haha, polygamy and polyamory are both recipes for disaster in my view. If you want to be with other people, just break up! If you want more than one wife, it's not a wife you want! If you want more than one husband, you might end up in a 'Who's the Daddy?' situation.
Society is mad.
Anyway Petal, I always think your food sounds so good and nourishing. It's so autumnal all of a sudden, the leaves seemed to turn amber and brown overnight. Have a lovely weekend.
Society is mad.
Anyway Petal, I always think your food sounds so good and nourishing. It's so autumnal all of a sudden, the leaves seemed to turn amber and brown overnight. Have a lovely weekend.
with Marsia & Em.