Is anybody proficient enough to use their skills in a real situation??
- Thread starter DanHarris
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Atleast with the japanese/okinawan martial arts, "all that flashy stuff" exists because it was useful to the practioners. If you arent able to utilize it in a real fight, you are not doing it right or havent practiced enough or do not have the proper conditioning.
Most traditional martial arts ended up the way they are because of social evolution. Though there was considerably less b*tching about how long something took to learn and be good at back then.
Yesterday at goshuku (a full weekend of karate!) my sensei's sensei (Master Kobayashi) showed exactly how a new kata I had recently learned (Seiyunchin) was supposed to be executed by having some of the blackbelts attack him at full speed. Very quickly you realize that "all that flashy stuff" is very useful if you practice, practice, practice.
Martial arts is not a pistol. It will never do brilliant things. What decent martial arts can do you for you is present a series of study that will allow you to transform your body and attitude so that you can do brilliant things. A fat and slow martial artist will still be no match for some lean boxer type until they put in the work to condition their body.
Most traditional martial arts ended up the way they are because of social evolution. Though there was considerably less b*tching about how long something took to learn and be good at back then.
Yesterday at goshuku (a full weekend of karate!) my sensei's sensei (Master Kobayashi) showed exactly how a new kata I had recently learned (Seiyunchin) was supposed to be executed by having some of the blackbelts attack him at full speed. Very quickly you realize that "all that flashy stuff" is very useful if you practice, practice, practice.
This is sucky to know. I wish martial arts would do brilliant things because then the otherwise physically defenceless like me could stand a chance!I'm physically weak, clumsy, have poor reflexes and few skills... I guess even if martial arts worked a treat I still wouldn't be good but at least martial arts alleged to give the smaller opponent the edge.
Martial arts is not a pistol. It will never do brilliant things. What decent martial arts can do you for you is present a series of study that will allow you to transform your body and attitude so that you can do brilliant things. A fat and slow martial artist will still be no match for some lean boxer type until they put in the work to condition their body.
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I will not sit here and boast confidently that I am fully prepared for a real-life fight and will kick the other guy's or guys' ass(es) or whatnot, but I will say taking up MMA has given me some real, valuable skills that I can use as well as helped me in my confidence a lot in case something like that came up. I definitely believe I need more training (I guess you're never done really but you know what I mean -- iron out the basics and all that) but even having a little training is better than none.
Some schools don't teach you things you need to know. In a lot of martial arts schools, the reason the martial art seems to be "useless" in a real-life fight is because the school teaches it based on TOURNAMENT rules. For example, in taekwondo, you're not allowed to punch to the head. So guess what? You're not gonna learn a whole lot about head shots and blocks at a lot of taekwondo schools. For an even more obvious example, in a lot of disciplines if both fighters fall or go to the ground, such as in karate, the fight is returned to stand-up. In real fights, there IS head punches and ground fighting.
Even with all these cool things I'm learning, I know real-life fighting is different than sparring. There's concrete and asphalt, not mats or boards (like the floor of rings), guys can pull weapons, there can be multiple attackers, people are allowed to bite and eye gouge, etc., so I can't do EVERYTHING the same as I would in training and I might have to think quickly to react to certain situations that can't really be simulated inside the school. However, having this kind of training definitely doesn't hurt. When you fight full-contact, minimum-rules (like UFC fighting), even if it's just sparring, you still can get used to being hit hard on most parts of the body and get the general experience of some guy trying to "kill" you. At the very least, the guy may have more street experience than me but generally speaking brawlers lose out to guys who have real, hardcore training in all aspects of fighting, including beating hit, which if you're not used to can really cause you to get panicked. If he tackles me and gets me to the ground, I'll at least be able to get out of the bottom and on top, and I'll at least be able to know how to give a good roundhouse to his thigh if we're standing up. An MMA school may not simulate a REAL, real-life fight where there's no referee stopping the fight and where's there's absolutely NO rules, but it is pretty damn close to real fighting, as close as you can get at least.
People who say martial arts don't work just haven't seen someone with the right kind of training. You think a street brawler's gonna know how to defend against a muay thai clinch? Think again. He'll be eating knees.
Some schools don't teach you things you need to know. In a lot of martial arts schools, the reason the martial art seems to be "useless" in a real-life fight is because the school teaches it based on TOURNAMENT rules. For example, in taekwondo, you're not allowed to punch to the head. So guess what? You're not gonna learn a whole lot about head shots and blocks at a lot of taekwondo schools. For an even more obvious example, in a lot of disciplines if both fighters fall or go to the ground, such as in karate, the fight is returned to stand-up. In real fights, there IS head punches and ground fighting.
Even with all these cool things I'm learning, I know real-life fighting is different than sparring. There's concrete and asphalt, not mats or boards (like the floor of rings), guys can pull weapons, there can be multiple attackers, people are allowed to bite and eye gouge, etc., so I can't do EVERYTHING the same as I would in training and I might have to think quickly to react to certain situations that can't really be simulated inside the school. However, having this kind of training definitely doesn't hurt. When you fight full-contact, minimum-rules (like UFC fighting), even if it's just sparring, you still can get used to being hit hard on most parts of the body and get the general experience of some guy trying to "kill" you. At the very least, the guy may have more street experience than me but generally speaking brawlers lose out to guys who have real, hardcore training in all aspects of fighting, including beating hit, which if you're not used to can really cause you to get panicked. If he tackles me and gets me to the ground, I'll at least be able to get out of the bottom and on top, and I'll at least be able to know how to give a good roundhouse to his thigh if we're standing up. An MMA school may not simulate a REAL, real-life fight where there's no referee stopping the fight and where's there's absolutely NO rules, but it is pretty damn close to real fighting, as close as you can get at least.
People who say martial arts don't work just haven't seen someone with the right kind of training. You think a street brawler's gonna know how to defend against a muay thai clinch? Think again. He'll be eating knees.
MMA training is quite good in giving you some good fighting skills.
I used to do muai thai, and my ground game is weak, but stand up fighting I do well.
Then I tried Krav Maga, which is focused on self defense. And tbh, while I was certainly much better prepared than untrained individuals, the ring fighting focus isn't that good for a street fight. Krav Maga, we were doing drills teaching you to line up multiple attackers so you only get to fight one at a time. Every technique we trained, each time you finish by scanning the area behind you and running away. When training techniques, instructors or other pupils would at random attack you from behind. Their ground fighting techniques won't work against a skilled fighter, but an unskilled one will be hurting and off you instantly and you're on your feet and running. All of the stuff that'll get you home safely instead of knifed in the back while you're beating the first guy soundly with your ring fighter skills.
Even as a trained fighter, a few months of Krav Maga will improve your self defense skills as much as your first few months of MMA.
I used to do muai thai, and my ground game is weak, but stand up fighting I do well.
Then I tried Krav Maga, which is focused on self defense. And tbh, while I was certainly much better prepared than untrained individuals, the ring fighting focus isn't that good for a street fight. Krav Maga, we were doing drills teaching you to line up multiple attackers so you only get to fight one at a time. Every technique we trained, each time you finish by scanning the area behind you and running away. When training techniques, instructors or other pupils would at random attack you from behind. Their ground fighting techniques won't work against a skilled fighter, but an unskilled one will be hurting and off you instantly and you're on your feet and running. All of the stuff that'll get you home safely instead of knifed in the back while you're beating the first guy soundly with your ring fighter skills.
Even as a trained fighter, a few months of Krav Maga will improve your self defense skills as much as your first few months of MMA.
if your wondering if anyone can actually kick some ass by actually pulling off one of those stylish round house kicks and flamboyant kungfu moves, no. but martial arts will help some people fighter better to some degree. if a person trained in only 1 specific style of martial arts, say, karate, no i doubt that theyll become much of a fighter against someone who actually knows how to scrap in a real street fight.
I dont agree with this. I started out with learning karate and when I was put into my first real situation where I had to defend myself this was the only style I knew and it worked perfectly. The other person had a repuation of never being beaten and it only took 2 hits to lay him out.
I dont agree with this. I started out with learning karate and when I was put into my first real situation where I had to defend myself this was the only style I knew and it worked perfectly. The other person had a repuation of never being beaten and it only took 2 hits to lay him out.
What a great discussion. I've taken a variety of Martial Arts for the past 15 years. Ikido, Kobudo, and the latest Ishinryu.
The best thing is that it teaches you not to lose your head. That is key.
You can take on multilple opponents and beat them enough to at least get away. Most people that are going to commit such an aggressive act are thugs and typically rely on fear as their weapon.
One of the black belt tests is to fend off several other black belts successfully. Its an exhausting test but the lessons you can learn from it are invaluable.
Not too mention Martial Arts is one of the best workouts around.
Another key is to find an instructor who actually knows what they are doing. Many instructors are fake and just in it for the money. An experienced individual WILL be able to spot that.
The best thing is that it teaches you not to lose your head. That is key.
You can take on multilple opponents and beat them enough to at least get away. Most people that are going to commit such an aggressive act are thugs and typically rely on fear as their weapon.
One of the black belt tests is to fend off several other black belts successfully. Its an exhausting test but the lessons you can learn from it are invaluable.
Not too mention Martial Arts is one of the best workouts around.
Another key is to find an instructor who actually knows what they are doing. Many instructors are fake and just in it for the money. An experienced individual WILL be able to spot that.
Clinching is a really bad idea in a self defense situation. It is slow, you can't see around you and you're vulnerable to attack from behind and sides, if the bad guy pulls a knife you won't see it and can't defend against it, his fingers can get into your eyes.
It is a very dangerous idea to think that because you're able to kick the crap out of one guy, you're competent to handle an assault. You need specific self defense training for that.
Certainly, yes.
Just having basic Muay Thai skills will help immensely in a 'real world' situation. It teaches one to stay composed and focused, to be mentally strong (with respects to pain and such like) and to be fit and well conditioned. That's without even considering the practical aspects of the art - the elbows are technically easy to execute, and relatively easy to delivery in a real world confrontation.
alleycat
Just having basic Muay Thai skills will help immensely in a 'real world' situation. It teaches one to stay composed and focused, to be mentally strong (with respects to pain and such like) and to be fit and well conditioned. That's without even considering the practical aspects of the art - the elbows are technically easy to execute, and relatively easy to delivery in a real world confrontation.
alleycat
This is true - overestimating the value of one's skills is extremely dangerous!
However, I'd say that knowing how to clinch is better than NOT knowing how to clinch. Street fights can often end up in a clinch of sorts, and being able to stay on two feet and compose one's actions could be critically important. It won't make someone invincible, but it might prevent you from being thrown to the floor and kicked in the head multiple times.
alleycat
I have been reading through this thread and I find it interesting to see what different people perspectives are on this matter.
For one thing, when you fight with emotion, rage being a kind of emotion, you will fight sloppily and a trained martial artist should be able to exploit that.
Me personally, i would never do any (most) of the flowery moves that most people think of when they think of martial arts. I am very quick and to the point. a roundhouse kick to the head frankly just takes too long to execute and I have fast legs. When i say too long, Im not talking about the time it takes to execute it by itself or compared to anyone else, Im referring to it in comparison to the speed with which i can throw a punch or a low line kick.
As for how I would fair in a fight with an untrained or street brawler... well, because of my training i am confident i can handle just about any situation i am put in. that doesnt mean i cant lose, but i dont worry about it.
For one thing, when you fight with emotion, rage being a kind of emotion, you will fight sloppily and a trained martial artist should be able to exploit that.
Me personally, i would never do any (most) of the flowery moves that most people think of when they think of martial arts. I am very quick and to the point. a roundhouse kick to the head frankly just takes too long to execute and I have fast legs. When i say too long, Im not talking about the time it takes to execute it by itself or compared to anyone else, Im referring to it in comparison to the speed with which i can throw a punch or a low line kick.
As for how I would fair in a fight with an untrained or street brawler... well, because of my training i am confident i can handle just about any situation i am put in. that doesnt mean i cant lose, but i dont worry about it.
personally I think DT is the best skill for a fight. Granted it doesn't hurt to have weapons, but hey if you learn how to fight defensively, you can do a lot to save your butt....lol
My DH got into a brawl with a guy who was over 6' and 200+ lbs. My DH is 5'9" and 155 lbs. The guy was a violent drunk. He threw my DH down a flight of cement stairs, and another officer into a cement pad. However they both got back up and kicked his butt. They were pissed....lol I *know* he put is DT into practice. The thing that made it so they got the guy..... They are trained to stay in the fight and use their anger......
My DH got into a brawl with a guy who was over 6' and 200+ lbs. My DH is 5'9" and 155 lbs. The guy was a violent drunk. He threw my DH down a flight of cement stairs, and another officer into a cement pad. However they both got back up and kicked his butt. They were pissed....lol I *know* he put is DT into practice. The thing that made it so they got the guy..... They are trained to stay in the fight and use their anger......
DT is Defensive Tactics. It is is a combination of fighting techniques used to provide a well rounded means to fight.
DH = dear husband
LOL :action2:
generally speaking when you fight with anger you dont fight well... you need to have a level head to truly fight well... you cant let anything bother you... thats not to say you cant fight with adrenaline... the thing is when someone hits you and you get that feeling of "i just wanna rip their head off" your not going to fight effectively, you may swing wildly or any number of other things which if I was in the situation I would exploit...
I've always trained in a lot of boxing and you do learn good composure and combined with the ducking and weaving and the knowledge of how to hit correctly can help. It completely depends on the situation though. Just because you may be trained, it does not mean you could take on a group of people, evne worse, if you are intoxicated yourself and think you can take on more than you can handle, you will only make a fool of yourself. It's about knowing your limits and being composed.
I didn't say fight with anger, I said *use* the anger. If someone is attacking you, you are going to get pissed, hence the adrenaline rush. It doesn't necessarily mean, you are going to "go wild". You can keep your head and use that adrenaline to beat your opponent.