Intermittent Fasting club

[kstadelh]

Hey @overlandflyer . You posted on my new weight loss diary a few weeks ago about studying up a bit because otherwise I would be at a handicap for weightloss. I took action on that and got an audiobook called The Obesity Code. One change I made base on it is to skip breakfast, a form of IF. I started a few days ago, and the results have been spectacular so far. Before my weight loss was sluggish and my weight was up and down. Since I started IF, I have seen a steady and impressive decrease everday. It's all about lowering your insulin resistance though IF.

I just wanted to thank you for the little nudge to educate myself, because it has helped me a lot.

 

[bensanon]

Not sure if you were replying to me, flyer, but here are the details I was referring to from the study. I don't think I could eat timed meals so close together like that but possibly eating randomly throughout the feeding window and the shorter the better probably. I could eat over 2k calories within a 6 hour period if I let myself.

Feasibility and Acceptability
Although our study was an efficacy trial, we also collected preliminary data on feasibility and acceptability. As shown in Figure S3, participants reported that it took 12 ± 10 days (range: 2 – 35 days) to adjust to the eTRF schedule, and all but one participant adjusted within about two weeks. Participants also reported that the challenge of eating within 6 hours each day was more difficult than the challenge of fasting for 18 hours per day (difficulty scores: 65 ± 20 vs. 29 ± 18 mm; p=0.009). In fact, all but one participant reported that it was not difficult or only moderately difficult (<50 mm on a 100-mm scale) to fast for 18 hours daily. Based on their experiences in adhering to eTRF, participants thought that eating within a 7.8 ± 1.8-hour daily period (range: 4 – 10 hours) would be feasible for most people. At the end of the study, seven out of eight participants were willing to eat dinner earlier, based on their subjective experiences in the study, while all eight said they were willing to do so if it improved their health. Thus, while fasting for 18 hours per day is well-tolerated and not difficult, the feasting aspect of eTRF is more difficult for participants, so TRF interventions with an 8-hour or longer eating period may be a better target for future effectiveness trials.

 

[overlandflyer]

i do find it very odd after hearing for decades that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day", i usually start off by telling people i skip "breakfast". in quotes because, of course, eating bacon, eggs, a short stack of pancakes, a muffin, coffee, & OJ at 8am is not what breakfast is all about. it is the first meal you eat after a fast.... "break fast" whatever time that is.

probably the best thing i can see about delaying your first meal of the day is that all your movement after fasting for 12-14 hours has only your fat stores to tap as your stored glycogen from your last meal is long gone by this time. i like to get out for a walk in the morning. i know when i'm out and moving, i'm burning fat... may in fact be some of the stuff i just overate and stored the day before? maybe... but i get the feeling i'm giving my body a chance to reset every day. may not be 100% accurate... but i can't dismiss the positive, good feeling i get either.

the alternate... creating an IF eating window early in the day and then starting fasting hours in the mid-afternoon, exercise later in the day will tend to decrease the time your body takes to get into a keto state and you start burning stored fat calories earlier. different way of achieving the same result.

 

[overlandflyer]

one thing about an IF diet that might be a bit more of a challenge than most other plans. intermittent fasting typically involves changing your eating habits/ times vs just reducing what you eat at the same times as with most other diets. i would caution against the impulse to do too much, too fast. look over your eating habits and look for a way you can introduce a gradual change. if you are like me, my body had decades to become used to the standard 3 meals a day habit.

with IF my system eventually grew into accepting 20/4 days occasionally, but it took over a month before i got to that extreme. that's why i laughed a little at that study "control group". for my first week, quitting late night snacking, i had to work just to get to that 12/12 day the study considered normal.... not!

 

[overlandflyer]

Not sure if you were replying to me, flyer, but here are the details I was referring to from the study. I don't think I could eat timed meals so close together like that but possibly eating randomly throughout the feeding window and the shorter the better probably. I could eat over 2k calories within a 6 hour period if I let myself.
...

probably a good thing i don't really count calories... i say "don't really" because i am certainly well aware of certain foods i eat, but i don't tend to add things up while i also know my daily total is reasonable. i've got to think that in general i am eating less. a few of my old bad habits were, eating purely for the enjoyment of the taste.... i may not have a Michelin Guide grade palate, but i do like my cooking, and overeating in general... like the other day when i took out two apples, but then put one back... a year ago i would have eaten both... more than likely just because they were there.

 

[aiminglow]

probably a good thing i don't really count calories... i say "don't really" because i am certainly well aware of certain foods i eat, but i don't tend to add things up

That's my style too, flyer. I might check the calories of a snack - like the small pack of crackers I just ate - and I like to have an in idea of how much the total calories is for any cake or biscuit recipe I cook, so I have an idea of how many might be in one slice or one biscuit, but I don't check out everything, and don't add calories up in the day. I give myself pretty much free rein on things like oranges or tomatoes or tofu, not bothering to "count" them, but I go easier on things that feel more solid, like bananas or potatoes.

 

[Cate]

I'm going to start IF tomorrow. I'll have my eating window from noon until 8 pm. I'll count calories for a while as well.

 

[overlandflyer]

.... I might check the calories of a snack - .....

snacks i make up are pretty easy seeing the info is written right on the package. i also am very careful to do this because for me it's very easy to get carried away with this sort of fuel. i just eyeballed the last round and i know i cheated quite a bit. 16 servings only lasted about a week.. and i think it's showing. that along with a short lived pasta kick i had recently and i've been back in Club 170 for a few days ...

 

[Cate]

Today is my day 2 on IF. My fat cells are crying to get out.
Flyer- do you remember, when you first started on IF, how long it took before your stomach stopped making so much noise?

 

[overlandflyer]

i'm not 100% sure about this, but i'm pretty sure i saw it in some lecture... the empty feeling in your stomach? ... the noises that are made via muscle contractions? ... that isn't a physiological reaction to an empty stomach... that's your brain telling your stomach to do that so it gets your attention. fairly effective, eh?

if i recall, the first week or so i was merely getting through the evening without eating. as i've said... 12/12 wasn't normal for me. i'm sure it was what happened over the next two weeks or so that really gave me a positive attitude, though. the effect of just getting from what was probably a 10/14 day. yes.... a 14 hour eating window was probably my typical day. ... not that i would eat 14 hours straight, but i was ignorant to the effect of stopping at 8pm, but then giving my pancreas a good hard carb kick 4-5 hours later.

this small habit change started to have an effect almost immediately. in two weeks i passed the 210 lb wall i'd been hitting for months and within 2-3 more weeks i hit, 199. that encouraged me to kick it up a big notch finally hitting some 20/4 days within a month.

yadda, yadda, yadda.... 170.

 

[Cate]

Very effective! I'm pretending they are fat cells wanting a feed & I am telling them to shut up!
I'll play with my eating window next week when G is away I think & see if I can shrink it a few days. I want weight-loss results right now......
Seriously though, I am feeling much better already. My stomach feels SO much lighter.

 

[aiminglow]

Wonderful! and two in a row!

 

[overlandflyer]

i'm not sure if this works the same for everyone, but i find there is a time... for me about 7-8 hours after my eating window ends, that i almost always get a hunger feeling. my solution is to make sure this happens when i am asleep, though on some late eating days it hits in the early morning when i get up. a cup of coffee usually takes care of it. oddly after that, it will be hours before i might feel another urge. hard to explain, but if the feeling did persist, i could easily seeing it becoming very distractive to say the least.

 

[overlandflyer]

no, i didn't slip 30 lbs overnight... i just wanted to verify the date i broke 200. looks like it was the end of Oct last year. i remember texting my nephew and his answer was, "rats, now i'm the only one in the family over 200 lbs", though i did remind him that he is 6' 3"... lol.

looks like it took about 6-7 weeks before i hit 200... about a 15 lb loss at that time. from that point down to when i hit a BMI of about 25.5, i averaged about 10 lbs/ month loss. things started slowing down when i hit ~180.

 

[overlandflyer]

let me premise this with a disclaimer....

in all the information... TED talks, etc, i've found on the web, when i look into most of the people behind the talks, yes.... they either run their own consulting firm or are a part of one. i have often gotten the feedback of... "yeah, right, these people are simply trying to sell you another diet plan".

of course people like this need to earn a living and looking into the services they provide most of the time it is guidance and supervision. some people need that. one thing the people in any lectures i post all have in common, however, there is absolutely no plan to sell you a "magic pill" or "our food, that really works". these are the people and sites to avoid.

that said... i have listened to most of this series by Dr Sarah Hallberg. intermittent fasting and Keto dieting have one major goal... keeping insulin levels low which means keeping sugars/ carbs low. this is a great series of lectures that keep terms at an understandable level. if you only listen to one and already have a good understanding of macronutrients, i'd highly recommend #4 on "Why Eat Less, Exercise More Doesn't Work..."

... on Carbs, Protein and Fat, and Their Surprising Impact on Blood Sugar (Ch 1)
... on Carbohydrate Intolerance, Insulin Resistance and Reversing Diabetes (Ch 2)
... on the Type 2 Diabetes Epidemic and What We Can Do To Stop It (Ch 3)
... on Why 'Eat Less, Exercise More' Doesn't Work, and Is Downright Insulting (Ch 4)
... on the History & Safety of Nutritional Ketosis (Ch 5)

 

[FoodC]

It is an interesting topic. Please tell me how your eating time looks like? Do you have a meal every few hours or ou just eat whenever you want to during the 8 hours of eating time?
Do you feel really hungry when eating window time is coming?
When do you do your workout?
Is it true that women should have a shorter starving time than men?

 

[overlandflyer]

... starving time ...

starving is a term i'd rather reserve for a lack of information, i do get hungry for food occasionally, though.

good timing... i just walked over to the bagel shop so i could do something sandwichy with a bunch of roasted chicken i have on hand. i like to play games with hunger most of the time. early today i got a little hunger reminder, but i ignored it. vs just now... i can't say having a sandwich like i just had didn't feel a little satisfying... i'm not a robot. but i have breakfast usually so the timing of the rest of my day works out right, hardly ever because i'm (using your word...)... starving. the one thing i try to remind myself at the beginning of an eating widow is to not overdo it. i have to get to the PO right now, but starting at ~11am, i have until 6-7pm for a 16/8 fasting day. i'll be back home well before then. so today will be basically a two meal day, ... maybe with a brew or two in between. ... gotta keep hydrated during those walks.... right? sorry to be a bit cavalier, but i am not really dieting anymore, just maintaining.... and living.... .

exercise... i walk... can come at any time, but unlike today, most days i start out before breakfast. today all my walking will be in the middle of the eating day... either way, it should have the effect of getting me into ketosis faster before my next breakfast vs taking a longer time when i'm not as active. this part of IF works regardless of when you stick it into your day. if i didn't like to walk in the morning, i probably wouldn't.

i might stirfry up some chicken-something later. i have a head of cauliflower i haven't cracked open yet and onions & peppers are always on hand. i suppose most days i have two main meals... a breakfast and a ... startfast...?? if i was home, i wouldn't have the beers, but i might munch something light between meals. i still try to keep carbs low and sugar wayyyyyyyyy low.

the few times i have heard someone refer to your comment about men vs women for any type of fasting, was to dispel those statements as not really based on well known facts. if you cherry pick studies, you can "prove" practically anything.

 

[overlandflyer]

well... a slight modification in the day... cancel the beers and sub some oatmeal and popcorn as a between meal snack. i have a kiwi i'm going to save for later. still plan on stirring up some dinner in a few hours. while i'm at it, probably throw all the chicken scraps and bones i have left into a pot and make a little broth. waste not...! walk to the PO off until tomorrow morning. Wednesday NYT crossword is usually the best puzzle of the week anyway.

 

[FoodC]

I will try, but I think I prefer to eat breakfast in the morning and the last meal at about 4:30 pm. We will see..
You are very consistent. Congratulations!

 

[overlandflyer]

i have to believe that picking a time/ schedule that works for you is key. i am fortunate to be retired with no local dependents, so my days are highly extemporaneous. i've started eating window times all over the daytime hours. with sleep being a natural fasting time, when you look at it, finding a way to tack on 6-8 hours on either or both ends of that stretch doesn't really sound that impossible... it's more about breaking habits.