Health Care Reform: Changes To Nutritional Information In Restaurants...

I agree that information is always good - I'm just wondering how much of a difference it will make to take information that was already easily available and put it in people's faces.

This statement is unfortunate as I believe some of us may be taking our obvious access to the internet for granted. Yes, anyone of us can look up the calorie info for some Burger King french fries, but 30% of American homes have no internet access. So even taking schools and libraries into account, some people probably never get online.

Yes, some restaurants have those little brochures, but not all. You can't even find them sometimes.

I'm pretty we also don't have a right to know what color the bins they store their coloring in are, or what size vats they use, or a lot of other information that would have no bearing on their ability to compete. Just like you don't have a right to know what kind of car I drive, or what my favorite color is. My point is that there is a lot of information that exists that we don't have a right to.

Yes and no. Th problem here is a lot of people are confusing personal right and responsibilities vs. corporate right and responsibilities.

Corporations need to be held up to a different standard then we do as individuals (because in all honestly, there are actually very few laws that protect us as the consumer as well as the companies which is sad).

Yes, I have the right to know what is in a Big Mac, not your mother's meatloaf.


I am glad that I live in a country where this type of action is taken for the benefit of those who care, like me.

Well said!
 
As long as they kept records on file with the FDA and kept printed records locked away in a filing cabinet somewhere in the back offices, they were abiding by the guidelines. The only difference - the only difference - is that they now have to take those printed records that were in the filing cabinet and put them on the menu.

"I eventually had to go down to the cellar..."
"That's the display department."
"...with a torch"
"The lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"Well, you found the notice, didn't you?"
"Yes. The plans were on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard"

hehe
Sorry, I am a geek and couldn't help myself
 
No, I do not have a right to participate in this forum. I can be kicked off by the forum owners any time they want. I do have a right to start my own forum. That's guaranteed under the first amendment.

It has nothing to do with participa...SIGH, nevermind. People obviously want to be mad at something just for the sake of being mad at something.
 
Do I or do I not have the right to know what I eat?
Absoultely you do. But no one is forcing you to eat at a restaurant. If you CHOOSE to eat at a restaurant then you might (depending on the restaurant) choose to forgo the right to have absolute 100% knowlege of the ingredients in favor of the restaurant experience.

It only becomes an issue of "rights" if you're forced to eat in a restaurant.

Otherwise, you're just exercising your freedom of choice.
 
I don't have a right to have access for viewing either. The owner could block that as well, so what's your point?

It has nothing to do with the forum itself. It has to do with the information; information, mind you, that you said you don't believe that we have the right to know.

You said that you don't agree with what Dr. Brownell said, which was...

"Consumers have the right to this info whether or not it makes a difference on the diet"

And, since you don't agree with that, then you obviously think that we don't have the right to that information. Why? Why wouldn't we have the right to know the information on what we put into our bodies?

Cans and bottles of beer have a warning on them which says...

Government warning: (1) According to the Surgeon General, women should not drink alcoholic beverages during pregnancy because of the risk of birth defects. (2) Consumption of alcoholic beverages impairs your ability to drive a car or operate machinery, and may cause health problems.

Why is that information there, you ask? Because, we have a right to know what consuming it will do to us. We have a right to know what we're putting into our bodies. Having nutritional information posted on restaurant menus is absolutely no different than putting a warning label on a bottle of beer. All it's doing is informing us of what we are putting into our bodies.

I just don't see how anybody can think that we don't have the right to know what we're putting into our bodies, especially when someone else has produced it. Are we just supposed to assume that what we're eating is good for us? Are we just supposed to trust these people, whom we have never met and know nothing about, to make us food that won't ultimately harm us? Are we supposed to just sit back and allow the world to cover our eyes, so we can't see the damage that's coming? If so, then I suggest that you write a letter to the FDA and request that they remove their stipulation that companies must put nutritional information on each and every food product that they make for us to consume, because we don't have the right to know what's in those products.

We'd obviously be better off being deaf, blind and dumb. :rolleyes:

Absoultely you do. But no one is forcing you to eat at a restaurant. If you CHOOSE to eat at a restaurant then you might (depending on the restaurant) choose to forgo the right to have absolute 100% knowlege of the ingredients in favor of the restaurant experience.

It only becomes an issue of "rights" if you're forced to eat in a restaurant.

Otherwise, you're just exercising your freedom of choice.

I think people are confusing what rights are. No...nowhere in the Constitution does it say "You have the right to know the exact nutritional value of foods that you eat in a restaurant" and I think that people are focused waaaaay too much on the Constitutional aspect of this. Our rights, as human beings, far exceed what was written on a piece of paper over 200 years ago. First of all, the Constitution has changed many, many times over the years. So, obviously, our "rights" aren't written in stone, so to speak. Secondly, just because it's not written on that piece of paper doesn't mean that we don't have that right, as human beings. For instance...

If I want to sit here and watch a hardcore midget porn while I stroke myself with hot sauce as I slide up and down on a frozen banana, I have the right to do so. And, nobody can argue that. Yet, where in the Constitution does it say that I'm given the right to do such a thing?

:holds his arms up in an "I dunno" fashion and shakes his head:
 
Chef - I agree with you 100%. I get really tired of the "it's my right" attitude. People are obsessed with their "rights" ... really meaning "I want what I want when I want it and no one can tell me otherwise".

When I say you have the right to know what you're eating, I don't mean Constitutionally. I mean as a human being you have the right to want whatever information you want. That doesn't mean you are going to get it. And not getting it doesn't mean your rights are being violated. It means you're making choices - which is also your right. :)
 
I still think that all being said and done, we aren't talking about furniture, or clothes, crayons, but food.
And when you want to mass market and sell food, you have a responsibility to your consumers.

Just like it is the responsibility of pharmaceutical companies to post side effects and warnings on medicine bottles, the food companies have a responsibility to post all nutritional label about their foods.

Chef is right. Every minimally processed item sold in a supermarket has to have this info on their labels, so just because they are selling their food in a restaurant and not a grocery store they are exempt?

I call shenanigans.
 
I still think that all being said and done, we aren't talking about furniture, or clothes, crayons, but food.
And when you want to mass market and sell food, you have a responsibility to your consumers.

Just like it is the responsibility of pharmaceutical companies to post side effects and warnings on medicine bottles, the food companies have a responsibility to post all nutritional label about their foods.

Chef is right. Every minimally processed item sold in a supermarket has to have this info on their labels, so just because they are selling their food in a restaurant and not a grocery store they are exempt?

I call shenanigans.

I agree with both you, chef, and jericho on all your points.

Although eating out CAN be a special occasion and therefor it's ok to indulge on a meal thats say, 2,900 calories, eating out 3-4 nights a week for many has become the norm in our society. There are also times that a person goes out to eat for the social aspect more so then the meal.

And I really doubt that many of these people know just how many calories they are eating. I'm not going to get into the "rights" of a human being but I for one am glad. I do like eating out, but I don't like not knowing how many calories I'm consuming. Because of this I often just get a salad that I'm not even satisfied with because lets face it, who wants to eat salad when eating out? When restaurants begin listing calories next to the meals, going out to eat with friends will be a little less stressful for me now!

I'm not really sure what the big deal is here... information isn't bad. Food products are labeled, even food that we don't have to eat, yet choose to eat. I don't think eating food from a restaurant is any different. It's food that we are putting into our body, that we are paying for. Me personally... I like to know how many calories i'm eating. Especially when trying to lose weight.
 
McDonalds has had the calorie information right on the package for a good year or two here, but it's not like fast food places keep the information completely secret. If people wanted to know, they could find the information without too much hassle (of course there are exceptions to this, but I'm saying this in a general sense). That's not to say I disagree with the movement, I'm just saying if people REALLY wanted to know, they would look for it.
 
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Not sure where 'here' is for you but for most of the world, fast food nutritional information is not easy to get. Unless you go online, you are more likely to get an odd look. Some do post that board with the information but let's be real here. This is for the 'average' person so to speak. Most people don't bother looking past the end of their nose for information. This puts the information right there in full sight. Maybe it helps, maybe not but I'm more likely to think that it will make a dent.
 
Not sure where 'here' is for you but for most of the world, fast food nutritional information is not easy to get. Unless you go online, you are more likely to get an odd look. Some do post that board with the information but let's be real here. This is for the 'average' person so to speak. Most people don't bother looking past the end of their nose for information. This puts the information right there in full sight. Maybe it helps, maybe not but I'm more likely to think that it will make a dent.


I live in Ontario, Canada. That being said, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I don't see a reason not to. I was just saying that if people really wanted to know, the information is available. Perhaps things are a little better here.
 
There are a lot of websites that do list calories to the meals restaurants serve, but I've noticed often times that different websites post different calorie values. I think i'd trust the calories I see in the menu a little more then the internet because I don't really know where the website admin got their info XD

Canada is indeed, better. But I'm in luck! According to this picture Toronto, Canada isn't that far from Trenton, NJ! Hooray for gps!

tumblr_kzwdvlnbKx1qaaxm8o1_400.jpg
 
Are you saying that people don't have a right to know what they're eating? Because (and I could be reading your statements wrong) that's how I'm taking what you're saying.

Do I or do I not have the right to know what I eat?


You have the right to know what your eating. If you value that, then cook at home where you are certain of the ammounts and ingredients, or only go to restaurants that provide that information voluntarily... But I don't understand why anyone would assume we have a right to make others do the same for us.

Sure it's nice for consumers that care about that information, but it is just another step towards a world where people have no personal responsibility. "I had no idea that eating burgers and fries everyday that had grease dripping off of them was unhealthy! Now I'm obese and suing because this information wasn't previously displayed in a prominent location."

Seriously?
 
I think one of the reasons obesity has become an epidemic is because of how often people actually DO eat out now. It really has become the norm in our society (u.s). However, if people are arguing that the food industry shouldn't be responsible for providing us information, I feel like it would be the same arguing that cigarette companies shouldn't warn us of the complications smoking can cause, because we, as the consumer, should be responsible enough to not smoke! However, we, as the consumer, we're unaware of the complications. Like Jericho has argued, it's simply information. Information doesn't kill any body. Irresponsible people will still choose to ignore it but other will choose to make better decisions.

I understand that eating a double whooper, with a large fry and drink, isn't justified because the person is unaware of the calories. But eating say... a Shrimp Griller from outback, which contains Grilled shrimp, rice pilaf and grilled veggies with a grilled pineapple sounds relatively healthy and a person may not realize that this meal is actually just under 1000 calories. Now if a person is made aware of just how many calories are in this meal, will it change their mind? Not necessarily, but perhaps they won't order that soda with it now, or maybe they'll go take a walk later that night, or maybe, their food choices for the rest of the week will balance the calorie intake for the week out. I totally understand that when it comes down to it, it is the persons responsibility when deciding, however many things can influence a persons decision and NOT having information does make decision making a bit more difficult in the end.
 
McDonalds has had the calorie information right on the package for a good year or two here, but it's not like fast food places keep the information completely secret. If people wanted to know, they could find the information without too much hassle (of course there are exceptions to this, but I'm saying this in a general sense). That's not to say I disagree with the movement, I'm just saying if people REALLY wanted to know, they would look for it.

The sad thing is, people don't "really want to know". People would rather be blind to the reality of things, which is exactly why most people don't go looking for nutritional information, especially at fast food restaurants.

Even the most health conscious people in the world don't go to annoying lengths to find nutritional information on the food they're eating. Currently, at most fast food restaurants, the nutritional information is posted on a fairly small sign somewhere in the establishment, which can only be viewed if you A) already know where it is or B) go looking for it. Honestly, who is going to take the time to go searching for that, especially at a fast food restaurant?

People go to fast food restaurants for convenience and, at the current point in time, it is extremely inconvenient for people to get the nutritional information about the food they're eating at fast food restaurants. You have to either go searching around at the restaurant itself (which isn't always an easy thing to do) or look it up on the internet before you go there. You have to remember that not everybody has internet access, so that route isn't always available to everybody. Also, if you can't find the information at the restaurant, you can always ask for it. By law, the manager has to retrieve the nutritional information for you. They will go into the back room, take a few minutes to dig around for it (because they probably haven't had to pull it out for anybody in a long, long time) and, when they eventually find it, they'll walk it out to you. Honestly, who is going to sit there for 10 minutes just to find out how many calories are in a 6 piece McNugget? Not a lot of people.

This is exactly why information like this should be posted up front so everybody can see it, plain as day, with no effort involved.

People are lazy. That's why they eat at fast food restaurants in the first place; because it's easy and convenient.

You have the right to know what your eating. If you value that, then cook at home where you are certain of the ammounts and ingredients, or only go to restaurants that provide that information voluntarily... But I don't understand why anyone would assume we have a right to make others do the same for us.

Sure it's nice for consumers that care about that information, but it is just another step towards a world where people have no personal responsibility. "I had no idea that eating burgers and fries everyday that had grease dripping off of them was unhealthy! Now I'm obese and suing because this information wasn't previously displayed in a prominent location."

Seriously?

First of all, people are always going to have a personal responsibility. Nobody is forcing us to eat this food; it's a choice. And, when there is a personal choice involved, personal responsibility always follows.

Secondly, what about the responsibility of the restaurants? I've worked in numerous restaurants over the years and in every single one of them, the restaurant itself was held for an extreme amount of responsibility when it came to the health and safety of it's customers. For instance...

If someone was allergic to peanuts and ate something that had a trace of peanut in it, and the restaurant had not informed it's customers upfront in some sort of way that peanuts were held and used within the restaurant, the restaurant would be held responsible for whatever happened to that customer who was allergic to peanuts. This is exactly why in 99.9999% of restaurants, you will find little warnings on the bottom of the menus that include such information - "may contain peanuts", etc (you will also see such warnings on many, many food products that you buy at the grocery store).

Where is the personal responsibility in that? Legally, the restaurant is 100% in the wrong if they don't tell their customers upfront that peanuts are somehow used within the establishment. So, where is the personal responsibility? I mean, if you are allergic to peanuts, shouldn't you be asking if there are peanuts in what you are eating? Especially when you eat it at a restaurant, where you don't know who is cooking your food or what is going into yet?

Restaurants having to post nutritional information upfront to it's customers is no different than that, but people aren't arguing that "may contain peanuts" should be yanked off of menus all over the country.

I mean, if restaurants didn't have to have any responsibility for it's customers, then shouldn't we (as customers) have to do our own research before we ate out a specific restaurant? If I, as a customer, was ultimately responsible for everything that happened to me (in the sense of eating at fast food restaurants), then shouldn't I be doing all types of in depth research and analysis on the restaurants I eat at, finding out who their distributors and vendors are, who and where they get their potatoes from, how their produce is cultivated, in what soil it's grown in, if pesticides are used or not used, who works for the company, their background on health and safety, their practices and standards, the sanitary conditions of their manufacturing plants where their pre-packaged food is made, what type of chemicals are used to clean their equipment, the quality and grade of food they use in their menu items, etc?

...or is that just unrealistic? Because, if you looked for that information, you could find it. Just like the nutritional information about a fast food restaurant's menu items. Yet, nobody is going to look for all of that other information. So, why should anybody expect people to look for nutritional information?

They're not going to. That's why restaurants are now going to be obligated to provide that information to it's customers upfront, before they would even ask for it.
 
it is just another step towards a world where people have no personal responsibility.

so..by posting the calorie information in a set place that people can see and use the information to make an informed choice that..the world now..has people who has no personal....responsibility...


WHAT?
 
Somebody mentioned cigarettes. I grew up in the fifties (that's right, I'm OLD) and my momma always told me cigarettes are bad for you. So people knew even then. Yes, some whiners won some lawsuits. That doesn't mean they had a legitimate point, at least not in my opinion.

As far as the restaurants are concerned, it is going to take money for a restaurant chain to get food items tested and in compliance with the law. Furthermore any new menu items would have to be tested again, and they are going to be audited by some government agency. This is why the law only applies to chains of a certain number of restaurants, not to a mom and pop operation. The big chains can spread the cost over many sites, and will have a competetive advantage over smaller chains. The end result will be less choice for the consumer. Less items on the menu and fewer restauants to choose from. All because the irresponsible among us are not willing to pay attention to what they are eating.
 
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