From >450 to <160 lb by 2022

[Err2]

I haven't, I'll check it out thanks

 

[Omega]

Well done on your achievements to date. You are doing brilliantly.

I also love your spreadsheet.

I have gained weight in recent years so am currently working on a comparatively small project... I can however identify with what you are doing....

When I did my big project I creamed and oiled (with bio-oil) the obvious areas... I took the attitude that it couldn't harm anything so there was no reason not to. I also took starflower oil capsules as I read that it could benefit the skin. I certainly ended up with a definite loose skin problem - but I did think that it could have been a lot worse.

I wouldn't worry too much about losing weight too fast or losing the wrong pounds... The bottom line is that you will be a lot healthier at the lighter weight. I will always remember on my big project that a few weeks after I got to half my start weight I was rushed into hospital and needed an emergency operation. There is no denying that I fared much better in surgery than I would have if I had not taken action. You have taken action and your weight loss will benefit many areas of your health.

 

[Err2]

Have you ever watched Obese to Beast on Youtube? Young guy who lost a lot of weight, has plenty of skin left over, and talk about it very candidly on multiple occasions. Including how he feels about new girlfriends seeing it live for the first time.

For anyone else following, here is one of those videos:

 

[alligatorob]

I've been skimming through your diary Rob - very impressive! And it seems like we have a similar approach.

Part of my focus on lean mass is definitely vanity, particularly because I'd like a healthy way to offset the inevitable sagging excess skin (something I'm already seeing 1/2 way to my goal). And part of it is my desire to maintain a more "normal" metabolism when I transition from my losing weight diet to my rest of my life maintenance diet (since I am wholly unable to regulate my food intake by feel, I'll need to count calories the rest of my life).

The math behind the later: If I reach 160 lbs at 5'7" with borderline acceptable 25% body fat, my daily caloric needs will be about 1850 (without exercise) -- this is not much more than the generic guidelines for men seeking to lose weight! On the other hand, if I reach 160 lbs at 5'7" with an "ideal" 15% body fat, my daily caloric needs will be about 2050.

15% @ 160 lb may not be possible for me at first (or maybe ever) because that would mean 136 lb of lean body mass and 24 lb of fat, yet I've read about similar weight loss examples where people had 20 pounds of excess skin surgically removed. At 160 pounds, at least 8 lb of fat will be "essential" so it may be that excess skin gives me bodybuilder abs at a nominal 18% body "fat."

I don't think I'll have quite that much extra skin because those "20 pounds of skin removed" cases were usually from people who had extremely fast weight loss from bariatric surgeries and/or fasts rather than a 2 year diet. But I know I'll still have a lot of loose skin and I don't expect all of it to go away in time. And while I have some vanity, I don't want to risk potentially life-changing complications (or possibly death) by having a major 8 hour cosmetic surgery unless I absolutely have to. So I'll aim for keeping as much lean mass as I can and try to convince those I wind up dating that my flabby skin is just a scar from my past & that scars are sexy. Easier said than done, right?

Yes, I do see some similarities in our approaches. One thing I am still learning is that the low calories slowed my metabolism and I believe it is still slow. I am at about 1,500 to 1,550 calories a day and exercising but just maintaining weight, not losing any more. If my metabolism were normal I believe I would still be losing. It may take time to adapt. Not sure what to do about that, just be prepared for it.

I am also about 5' 7" and had my body fat measured at 16% (caliper method) when I hit 164 lbs. That was a big part of what convinced me I was done losing weight and needed to get into maintenance mode. I am happy with 16%. I am however a lot older than you, and would expect a bit more body fat. That was my first every body fat % measure, so I don't know where I was before. Oh, the new body fat % scale came yesterday, but I have not yet figured it out. Will let you know when I do.

On the sagging skin thing, I have it of course and I know a few of my pounds are skin, doubt its close to the 20 lbs though. I don't like seeing it in the mirror, but I like it a lot better than tight skin filled with fat! I like your thoughts on not having surgery and just considering it a scar of the past. I think that is the healthy way to deal with it. Your youth should make yours a little less than mine, though you started at a higher weight so who knows. We are all different. I don't know if mine will get any better with time, one can always hope. I like to think of it as a badge of my weight loss success. And as a friend told me that's what clothes are for, you can cover most of it up, most of the time. And always remember sagging skin is a lot better than the alternative!

Good to have you here, you are doing great!

 

[PolarPink]

Hey Err,
You have a great attitude about everything thus far, so I wouldn't let excess skin get in the way of that. It may be best to revisit the idea of skin removal surgery if you feel that it is causing you distress down the line. I would worry less about how other people feel about it and focus on what you'll be feeling, wanting, etc. when the time comes. I'm also electing to view whatever excess skin I may have left over once I enter maintenance mode as scars of war and ultimately victory. I hope this doesn't sound weird, but know that I'm proud of you! Keep up the great work

 

[Err2]

Saturday progress report:

In the past week my average weight was 299.1 with an estimated body fat of 44.6% and with an average intake of 1317 calories per day. The week prior I averaged 304.7, 44.8%, and 1322. Two weeks ago I averaged 307.9, 45.2%, and 1325. That means I lost 1.04% last week (right on target) and 1.86% this week (quite a bit over my 1% goal).

I'm going to nudge my calorie target up from 1300 to 1350 next week and see how it goes. I'd previously experimented with 1400 calories which should only be a fraction of a pound difference per week, but my weight was stagnant at that intake for the 2 weeks I tried it.


Today's food log (been on a bean kick lately):

Breakfast & lunch (I had a half portion at each meal):
2 cups black beans (454 calories)
2 scoops Whey Protein Isolate (200 calories)
2.4 oz London Broil (134 calories)
1 whole bell pepper (32 calories)
2 sticks of celery (14 calories)
1/4 cup pickled deli Jalapeno peppers (5 calories)
1 fresh jalapeno (4 calories)
1/2 tsp cumin (4 calories)

Dinner:
3 thick slices of bacon (210 calories)
6 Romaine lettuce leaves (15 calories)
3 thick slices of tomato (8 calories)

Snack:
1 cup 2% cottage cheese (180 calories)

--------------------
1328 calories, 146 protein, 36 fiber
(26 fat, 130 carbs)

One thing I am still learning is that the low calories slowed my metabolism and I believe it is still slow. I am at about 1,500 to 1,550 calories a day and exercising but just maintaining weight, not losing any more. If my metabolism were normal I believe I would still be losing. It may take time to adapt. Not sure what to do about that, just be prepared for it.

Yeah, there is a sticky in the advanced weight loss section linking to a good (but very technical) article on metabolic adaptation. Because I've been doing my own BMR calculations along the way, I've been monitoring mine and it is remarkable how much my metabolism has slowed/become more efficient.

I'm now using the Katch-McArdle formula to estimate BMR: BMR = 370 + (9.79759519 x Lean Mass in pounds)

That will estimate your base metabolic rate -- the amount of calories you need to lie in bed all day. But since you get up and walk around and do stuff, you multiply the above by an activity multiplier (what I call a fudge factor). If you are sedentary you're supposed to use 1.2, if you exercise a couple days a week you start off with 1.375, if you exercise every day you use 1.55, etc all the way up to 1.9 for someone exercising vigorously twice a day.

I was the very definition of Sedentary in January, but in order for my weight loss to match my caloric intake I needed to use a fudge factor of 1.5 - the same as if I was in the gym all day. Today I'm much more active, yet my fudge factor has plummeted to 1.2 -- a 20% drop in metabolism even after correcting for weight loss...

I look at it as my body's way of trying to regulate my out of control eating. When I was 450 lb and eating way too much, I was physically hot all the time. It could be 40F outside and I'd be perfectly comfortable in shorts and a t-shirt. Now that my metabolism has slowed 20%, I start to feel chilly in shorts & a T shirt when it is 68F. Thermodynamically, it makes sense, but it is frustrating when trying to set specific targets.

I am also about 5' 7" and had my body fat measured at 16% (caliper method) when I hit 164 lbs. That was a big part of what convinced me I was done losing weight and needed to get into maintenance mode. I am happy with 16%. I am however a lot older than you, and would expect a bit more body fat. That was my first every body fat % measure, so I don't know where I was before. Oh, the new body fat % scale came yesterday, but I have not yet figured it out. Will let you know when I do.

It is very reassuring to know you hit 16% - makes me feel my 15% goal is within the realm of possibility. I'm curious how the scale will compare - please let me know how you like it. If you have a cloth tape, I'd also be very curious how it compares to the Navy calculation (online calculator here: US Navy Calculator - Body Fat Calculator ) I suspect your weight stagnation at 1500 calories is partly metabolic adaptation and partly you getting trading some more bodyfat for lean muscle.

Hey Err,
You have a great attitude about everything thus far, so I wouldn't let excess skin get in the way of that. It may be best to revisit the idea of skin removal surgery if you feel that it is causing you distress down the line. I would worry less about how other people feel about it and focus on what you'll be feeling, wanting, etc. when the time comes. I'm also electing to view whatever excess skin I may have left over once I enter maintenance mode as scars of war and ultimately victory.

On the sagging skin thing, I have it of course and I know a few of my pounds are skin, doubt its close to the 20 lbs though. I don't like seeing it in the mirror, but I like it a lot better than tight skin filled with fat! I like your thoughts on not having surgery and just considering it a scar of the past. I think that is the healthy way to deal with it. Your youth should make yours a little less than mine, though you started at a higher weight so who knows. We are all different. I don't know if mine will get any better with time, one can always hope. I like to think of it as a badge of my weight loss success. And as a friend told me that's what clothes are for, you can cover most of it up, most of the time. And always remember sagging skin is a lot better than the alternative!

That's definitely the right way to look at it. So far I'm not bothered by it normally, but I do find the aesthetic a little distracting when doing burpees, mountain climbers, or push-ups while shirtless or wearing a loose fitting shirt. I could always get compression garments, but I hate the idea of buying clothes that I'll only wear a month or two (especially when I'm at home quarantined 99% of the time).

Good to have you here, you are doing great!

I hope this doesn't sound weird, but know that I'm proud of you! Keep up the great work

Aw, thanks guys - the support here has been fantastic.

 

[Llama]

If the article you mentioned is the one I'm thinking of it mentions eating normally for a while in between bouts of weightloss to keep your metabolism going. Is that something you'd consider?

 

[Err2]

If the article you mentioned is the one I'm thinking of it mentions eating normally for a while in between bouts of weightloss to keep your metabolism going. Is that something you'd consider?

Good question. So the article analyzed a number of different methods & studies and primarily recommended targeting 0.5-1% weight loss per week to maintain lean mass & keep the metabolism as high as possible. But two other possibilities showed a little promise:

*Intermittent Fasting (restricted hours per day): Aside from causing some participants to consume fewer total calories, this has not been shown to make any (statistically significant) difference in lean mass or metabolism. Small, but again insignificant, benefits have been reported. As it turns out, I already eat within a 10 hour window primarily due to my thyroid medication recommending 4 hours of fasting before & after.

*Intermittent Fasting (restricted or cheat days per week or weeks per month): These studies have shown mixed results. In one, dieters dieting steadily for 7 weeks lost more weight than dieters alternating weeks (no surprise). In the most convincing study, dieters dieting steadily for 16 weeks lost a little less than dieters alternating weeks for 30 weeks. This doesn't surprise me - we already know losing weight more slowly is better for lean mass & metabolism, so a better-controlled study would have had the steady dieters using a smaller deficit for 30 weeks instead of a large one for 16 and free feeding for 14 before checking in. These studies also seemed to imply that the diet portion was low carb because they emphasized eating higher carbs during the cheat days/weeks. But I'm not eating low carb - I'm just not eating very many simple carbs...

So, at best, cheat days or cheat weeks have been shown to offer a small benefit but only when the diet is extended. I think it is also very likely that these benefits would disappear if the steady diet were also slowed & extended to an equal time period.

The downsides: Large short term swings in caloric intake would require me to get out of a routine and make more decisions on a daily/weekly basis (e.g. how much should I eat today, on which day(s) should I eat more, etc). For me, both of those downsides carry an increased risk of me falling off the wagon - especially on days when I have had a high cognitive load & am experiencing stress/decision fatigue.

So weighing the risk vs reward I think, for me personally, I am better off aiming for a steady 1% decline right now. I'll certainly keep my mind open and the risk/reward factor may change in the future because during quarantine a cheat day wouldn't make my life any better whatsoever. I'm never hungry eating how I have been so I don't feel that I've been denying myself anything. But if/when I am once again able to have a more active social life, having the ability to indulge on a Friday or Saturday night may become more appealing...

 

[PolarPink]

.... the support here has been fantastic.

I absolutely agree! I'm so happy that I made the decision to sign up because the people here are amazing. Very warm and encouraging crowd to say the least

You're so meticulous and I am fascinated. I wish I could figure all of that out, but alas, I will continue along my path of trial and error hehe

 

[Cate]

I woke up this morning umming & ahhing about my plan for the next month to get my weight moving downwards again & read your diary first up. You know, I think I agree with you that slow & steady wins the race. The minute I start thinking of doing IF or strict calorie deficits or anything drastic my brain reacts against doing anything at all. So....I'm going to be sensible & start tracking again & weighing every week & aiming for a pound a week.
Thank you, Err for influencing me & helping me head in the right direction. Sometimes that's all we need

 

[Err2]

Thanks! I figure weight loss follows the 80/20 rule: 80% of weight loss results come from just doing something about it. I find chasing that last 20% fun, but it is a lot of (unnecessary) work so don't let it dissuade you from just doing something.

 

[Llama]

The law of diminishing returns strikes again.

 

[Err2]

Posted this in another thread, but decided to go back and add a column for sodium see if my salt intake might help explain the days I gained weight (or failed to lose 0.4 lb) despite maintaining a pretty large calorie deficit:

Date...................weight....BF%......Calories...Sodium
August 1, 2020.....309.8.....46.7%.....1501.....5708
August 2, 2020.....310.8.....45.7%.....1389.....2881
August 3, 2020.....311.2.....45.5%.....1370.....3590
August 4, 2020.....310.8.....45.7%.....1213.....1884
August 5, 2020.....309.6.....45.5%.....1310.....5075
August 6, 2020.....307.2.....46.4%.....1160.....4703
August 7, 2020.....309.0.....44.3%.....1557.....7333
August 8, 2020.....311.2.....45.0%.....1149.....3796
August 9, 2020.....311.0.....44.5%.....1340.....2668
August 10, 2020....310.4.....45.0%.....1427.....2253
August 11, 2020....307.4.....44.5%.....1416.....2488
August 12, 2020....306.2.....45.5%.....1427.....2267
August 13, 2020....307.6.....45.5%.....1201.....3508
August 14, 2020....306.8.....45.5%.....1292.....2995
August 15, 2020....306.0.....45.7%.....1374.....3514
August 16, 2020....305.8.....45.5%.....1329.....3062
August 17, 2020....305.8.....45.7%.....1305.....4587
August 18, 2020....305.4.....44.5%.....1394.....3374
August 19, 2020....305.4.....45.0%.....1591.....2967
August 20, 2020....305.4.....45.0%.....1198.....1147
August 21, 2020....303.6.....45.0%.....1263.....1873
August 22, 2020....301.6.....43.0%.....1352.....1452
August 23, 2020....301.0.....44.3%.....1339.....1989
August 24, 2020....300.2.....45.2%.....1349.....910
August 25, 2020....299.4.....45.2%.....1250.....3739
August 26, 2020....299.0.....45.2%.....1266.....1164
August 27, 2020....297.0.....45.0%.....1316.....2823
August 28, 2020....298.8.....43.5%.....1310.....1429
August 29, 2020....298.0.....43.5%.....1328.....2176
August 30, 2020....296.0.....43.8%.....1395.....2863
August 31, 2020....296.2.....43.5%.....1358.....2289
September 1, 2020...295.0.....43.5%.....TBD.....TBD


I don't think sodium effects the long term trend, but there does seem to be at least some correlation with short term results. For what its worth, I am not *adding* salt to anything, but I haven't been watching it either. Jerky and/or pickles explain most of the heavy sodium days...

 

[Err2]

Speaking of spam, check out how much sodium it has:

 

[alligatorob]

Looks like Spam is a good high fat, sodium, and calorie meal, without tasting good! I was going to say dog food, but don't think I would feed that to my dogs....

 

[Llama]

Confession: I used to love Spam. Haven't had it in 2 decades probably. You're right about sodium not influencing long-term weight, by the way. It just makes you retain water and for most people there's a limit to the smount of water they'll retain.

 

[Err2]

Saturday progress report:

Time Period __ Weight __ Body Fat __ Calories
2 weeks ago: __ 304.7 ___ 44.8% ___ 1347
1 week ago: ___ 299.1 ___ 44.6% ___ 1308
This week: ____ 295.0 ___ 43.1% ___ 1437
(those are weekly averages)

I was aiming to lose 1% or 2.99 lbs and I lost 4.1 lbs (1.4%) so I'll aim to maintain or very slightly increase my calorie consumption next week.

 

[liza]

Your whole diary/journey is impressive Err. I like your careful methodical approach.
Keep up the great work!

 

[Err2]

Saturday progress report:
Time Period __ Avg Weight __ Avg BF% __ Avg Calories
2 weeks ago: ____ 299.1 _____ 44.6% ____ 1308
1 week ago: _____ 295.0 _____ 43.1% ____ 1449
This week: ______ 294.1 _____ 43.7% ____ 1465
(those are weekly averages)

I was aiming to lose 1% or 2.95 lbs and I lost 0.9 lbs (0.3%) so I'll lower calories slightly on days I do not exercise much. Body Fat % also went up 0.6%, although the method I'm using to calculate apparently is only accurate to 3% so there is considerable fluctuation day to day... Extreme heat and wildfire smoke have all but curtailed my outdoor exercise, but hopefully we'll get some rain soon.



This next week my big project is to go back through my food diary and add carbs & fat macros to my spreadsheet. I may be violating John Maynard Keynes maxim "it is better to be roughly right than precisely wrong," but to help improve the accuracy of my planning I intend to switch from "calories consumed" to "estimated net calories consumed." What's the difference? 100 calories of protein take about 25 calories to digest while 100 calories of carbs take 5-10 calories (simple carbs being easier) and 100 calories of fat just 3 calories.

Since I'm eating around 1400 calories with 45% coming from protein, 35% from carbs, and 20% from fat my body is truly only gaining 1201 calories (473 from protein, 456 from carbs, and 272 from fat). On the other hand, if I were to eat 1400 calories using the old USDA food pyramid model of roughly 65% carbs, 25% fat, and 10% protein, then my body would be gaining 1291 calories (105 from protein, 846 from carbs, and 340 from fat). So if I were to try and balance my calorie in vs calorie out while switching to a more traditional American carb-heavy diet I'd need to eat 90 fewer calories!

 

[Xena1]

Sorry to hear about the wildfire smoke. I hope you get to walk outdoors again soon...I know sometimes it takes a while to put them out. I used to live in an area close to wildfires, sometimes the smoke was just awful.

Interesting about switching to a carb heavy diet.