Cannon's Journal

Cannon, very interesting and a great summary. Very helpful to learn this information and get the "condensed" version of the book. This makes a lot of sense to me. I do think "we" get to control some of the factors some of the time and sometimes we do not / we can not. For me, the main thing that helps is to really understand the science and the complexity of weight. When you really internalize that it makes it very clear that "dieting" cannot be a 30 day project. What you eat, what you weigh, are the end result of daily choices made along a long road called life. We can't change any of it quickly, but we can make quick choices that change for the long run.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
 
yea i've heard a little abt leptin. think somebody link a video from this forum. i m goin to catch some sleep now and see my body change abit tomorrow! :p
hv a beautiful sunday cannon!
 
I'm going to take a break from the book reports for a brief update. I've loosened up a bit this weekend, but not too bad. I have learned a new way of cooking that I think lends itself to healthy eating. Basically I take a piece of meat and use a spice rub on it. Then I wrap it tightly in plastic wrap and put aluminum foil over that wrapping tightly. Then I cook at 270 degrees for about 4 hours depending on the cut of meat. It seems to work very well and gives great flavor to a simple piece of meat without heavy sauce.

Thanks to everybody for visitng. Wow, who else gets to hear support from Singapore, England, and China on a daily basis? I consider myself very luck. I'll be hitting diaries tomorrow.
 
very very very patient cook. 4 hours?!?!?!

heh singapore ambassador is here to say good morning....:) just in case i get too tired to get to my laptop tonite.
 
Cannon 2006 said:
It has to a degree, but the outlook for dieting is so incredibly bleak beyond a certain point. The worst part is there are so many people making so much money off of continuing certain misconceptions that its hard to get people to objectively look at the situation. It is so easy to say, "Exercise more and eat less." However, our bodies don't play fair. The main benefit I see from what I've learned in the book is that it is our bodychemistry that causes those binges and kills weight loss. It isn't lack of willpower. I think knowing this makes it easier to prepare for it than if you believe its your own lack of control caused by laziness. I am going to post about some of the negatives, but I am indirectly learning some positives. For instance, there are 3 very important chemicals produced by the body which give the signal for being full. The most important are Leptin and PYY. In doing further research on Leptin I came across an article from the September 2003 issue of the Journal of Neuroendocrinology (I missed this before because I only get the February swimsuit issue). Studies at both Oxford and Harvard demonstrate the effect of sleep or lack of it on the body's ability to produce leptin. This emphasizes just how importance sleep is to losing weight. Something that made a difference for me when I started this diet, but that I got away from--no more.
Click to expand...
I agree with being sleep deprived will screw your diet up and make you overeat - im a classic example. However i disagree with the "proof" that being overweight is genetic. Genetics can explain possible slower metabolism, or even chemical imbalances, however majority of obesity is from a generation of people who love to use excuses.

I mean people psychoanalyze EVERYTHING. 'Oh my parents are divorced thats why i steal stuff' sort of mentality. Its making an excuse. THIS is the major cause of people not doing anything.
Ive talked to many many people over the course of my weight loss and everytime i hear the same excuses 'oh no its not because i eat to much .. its because of <insert some stupid excuse here>'.
One lady at the mall today was trying to tell me she was not overweight because she ate to much, she barely ate anything and only ate one meal a day! then she went on to tell me about what a great weekend she had getting totally shitfaced on booze that weekend just been ... HELLOOOO!!!

Time and time again people will make up crap excuses for overeating. Sure we all are falible and all have cravings. But are you going to make excuses like 'oh well ive screwed up now .. i cant get anything right .. may as well quit now' and then go on to tell people 'oh no i tried this diet but it didnt work ...' which is blatent crap.


There is a generation (or three) of people who are so busy looking for a reason to be fat or lazy, that they seem to forget that they are accountable to themselves. Your brain is in control of your body .. not the other way around. I mean its YOUR body .. should you not have the right to tell it what it can or cant have? just like a child!
Your body is stupid, it only acts and reacts. it doesnt think. If you give it food, it processes it. Sure it might send a message via chemicals 'hey i need <some craving>' , but its your brain that has to say 'umm no we just ate .. give it 20 mins' or 'how about a bargin ... ill give you something that tastes similar but has less calories'

Anyway this rant isnt directed at anyone in particular. I just get sick of people making stupid excuses and making up crap to excuse poor behavior or habits :)
 
Cannon 2006 said:
In doing further research on Leptin I came across an article from the September 2003 issue of the Journal of Neuroendocrinology (I missed this before because I only get the February swimsuit issue).
Click to expand...

:rotflmao:

Cannon 2006 said:
Let me try to ecapsulate what I've learned so far. I have some areas that I am definitely going to go further into. I spent some time last afternoon looking for some science contrary to the Kolata's book. I found several people who were upset and said things like "Put down the book and while you're at it put down the bacon double cheeseburger. YOU are the reason YOU are fat". Bascially, people who either didn't read the book or didn't understand it seemed to be the only dissenting voices. There are a lot of people who profit from the idea that the weight is the fat person's fault and our society loves to judge people in general. Its a combination that leads to ignoring a lot of scientific evidence.

1. Obesity is controlled by genetics more than any other factor. There was a very important study involving twins who were adopted by different families and that is one that has been repeated frequently. Genetics account for over 75% of a person's BMI. A person with fat genes raised by a healthy family is much more likely to be overweight than a person with "Normal" genes raised by an obese family. In African-American males the effect is as high as 89%. Kolata ignores that other 25%. To somebody starting this thing at 465, I believe if I can learn the habits that will make me far healthier.

2. The way that our body controls are eating are through three chemicals - Leptin (A hormone that regulates appetite and metabolism), PPY 3-36 (A peptide that blocks the nerves simulated by Ghrelin), and Ghrelin (A hormone that stimulates appetite). Our weights will try to pull us to a certain weight through a rubber band effect. If we consume too many calories to maintain that setpoint our metabolism will kick into overdrive and our body will tell us we're full. If we consume too few calories our body will slow down our metabolisms and tell use we're starving. The problem is there is no rhyme or reason to that setpoint. Some people will get that starving signal and metabolism slowdown when they are very obese. Other people may not have that happen when they are unhealthily underweight.

3. The result of those signals is that crazy binge that kills a lot of diets. Some of the best posters on this board have left farewell messages full of shame and humiliation as their eating went out of control. Eveything I'm reading says its not their fault. These people wanted to lose weight and were dedicated to it. I hope that understanding what is happenning may allow people to lose that shame and humiliation and cope with the situation better. This doesn't mean all diets will fail, but it does mean the chemical reactions of your body need to be understood and dealt with if you want to successfully lose weight.

Things I have learned positive so far.

1. Sleep is key to Leptin working positively so proper sleep will greatly help with weight loss.
2. I am not nearly as weak-willed as I thought. My desire to lose weight is not at odds with my desire to see more acceptance for overweight people in society.
3. There is a percentage of weight before that rubberband effect ever happens and I don't believe I've hit it yet.
4. I am convinced that the price of weight loss is eternal vigilance.
5. I do think science is probably less than a decade from making some major progress in this area. The discovery of Leptin is about a decade old and its openning up all sorts of new areas of research.

I also believe my goal weight is pobably too low for my body. I think my goal weight is going to drop into the 250 pound range and then I'll think about things.
Click to expand...

Brilliant post, and I think re evaluating your goal is definately wise.

Although I do not claim to be an expert I have come across a lot of this in the process if my degree, and my final specialisation was genetics. It is nice to see genes given the credit they deserve! :rolleyes:

cinderelly said:
Also ona side note - I am glad to be walkign down this path with you adn sharign this hourney and lifestyle change - I am happy to support you and love recieiving it from you - have a great weekend !!!
Click to expand...

I second this :)

wishes said:
I agree with being sleep deprived will screw your diet up and make you overeat - im a classic example. However i disagree with the "proof" that being overweight is genetic. Genetics can explain possible slower metabolism, or even chemical imbalances, however majority of obesity is from a generation of people who love to use excuses.

I mean people psychoanalyze EVERYTHING. 'Oh my parents are divorced thats why i steal stuff' sort of mentality. Its making an excuse. THIS is the major cause of people not doing anything.
Ive talked to many many people over the course of my weight loss and everytime i hear the same excuses 'oh no its not because i eat to much .. its because of <insert some stupid excuse here>'.
One lady at the mall today was trying to tell me she was not overweight because she ate to much, she barely ate anything and only ate one meal a day! then she went on to tell me about what a great weekend she had getting totally shitfaced on booze that weekend just been ... HELLOOOO!!!

Time and time again people will make up crap excuses for overeating. Sure we all are falible and all have cravings. But are you going to make excuses like 'oh well ive screwed up now .. i cant get anything right .. may as well quit now' and then go on to tell people 'oh no i tried this diet but it didnt work ...' which is blatent crap.

There is a generation (or three) of people who are so busy looking for a reason to be fat or lazy, that they seem to forget that they are accountable to themselves. Your brain is in control of your body .. not the other way around. I mean its YOUR body .. should you not have the right to tell it what it can or cant have? just like a child!
Your body is stupid, it only acts and reacts. it doesnt think. If you give it food, it processes it. Sure it might send a message via chemicals 'hey i need <some craving>' , but its your brain that has to say 'umm no we just ate .. give it 20 mins' or 'how about a bargin ... ill give you something that tastes similar but has less calories'

Anyway this rant isnt directed at anyone in particular. I just get sick of people making stupid excuses and making up crap to excuse poor behavior or habits :)
Click to expand...

Hmmm, you make good points and in a LOT of cases you are right, but I have to disagree with your general conclusions. I don't think you can separate your subconscious mind and your body like that. Your mind is nothing but your brain, a network of cells and chemicals controlled at least partially by your genes. Your genome influences (not controls) many if not every other aspect of behaviour, why not eating behaviour too?

EDIT: I am not saying it should be used as an excuse not to try, though!!

Happychubette said:
Wow would you look at the ticker on that girl?
Click to expand...

I know- so impressive!!
 
Last edited:
Wow, my diary had a busy night :)

Wishes - I'm not done researching and I'm currently looking at the National Weightloss Resistry very hard. The Registry tracks people who have successfully kept off a lot of weight long term and tries to find what they have in common. Some of their conclusions are strikingly similiar. The things I am talking about aren't in the area of psychology as much as they are in the area of human bio-chemistry. The brain doesn't send a message along the lines of "I want pizza" as much as "I am starving and will die if you don't feed me NOW". Unfortunately, even filling up on low calorie alternatives don't get around this as PPY 3-36 measures caloric intake not the fullness of the stomach. I am still very much a student of this. However, I also don't ever want my diary to be the demotivating diary. There was a quote by Thomas Aquinus that said "Pray as if everything depends on God and work as if everything depends on you." My intention is to work on my lifestyle as if everything depends on me, but at the same time try and learn about the issues that are beyond my control so that I can combat them and keep them in check.

Kezzy - Genetics? I would have been even more sympathetic about your tests. One of my friends has a PHD in the field, but I have never discussed weight with her before. I have a definite desire to pick her brain on some of this.
 
Good morning Cannon. It's 6 am on Monday morning and I'm wide awake so thought I'd take the opportunity to visit some diaries which I've been neglecting.

Although the book you're reading presents some interesting hypothesis, and although I agree body chemistry can present extra challenges to weight loss, I can't see how focusing on those things are very helpful to anyone who wants to lose weight.

I agree with Wishes. I too have met hundreds of individuals over the years who make the genetic excuse while stuffing their faces full of food. I once had a close friend tell me she hates people who lose weight easily, while she regularly ate out, drank beer, ate steak and potato chips. lol
And I agree with Wishes our head is placed at the top of our bodies for a reason...we are supposed to use it to exercise judgement in all matters, including eating. Sure, some folks might have genetic predispositions to eating more, so be it. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, because if those people want to lose weight, they will have to discipline themselves.

Nope, for me, I like to focus on what is within my control and what are successful people doing? I like to look at folks who get off their ass and go to the gym or cycle/jog/swim or partake in some other regular exercise. I like to look at people who know what to put in their mouth and how to provide their bodies with adeqate nutrition. I'm not going to look at folks who make excuses one little bit. Because I do that enough myself.

Healthy lifestyle is as much about thinking properly as it is actually changing habits. In fact, before we can permanently change habits, I believe we need to do a housecleaning of how we think. So I can't see how a book that perpetuates the myth that obesity is not due to overeating, can be helpful to anyone.

That's my two cents on this one...I know you are simply exploring these ideas...I just think reading a book about weight loss serves you better in the long run. How's that gym you joined?
 
2Skinny said:
I agree with Wishes. I too have met hundreds of individuals over the years who make the genetic excuse while stuffing their faces full of food. I once had a close friend tell me she hates people who lose weight easily, while she regularly ate out, drank beer, ate steak and potato chips. lol
And I agree with Wishes our head is placed at the top of our bodies for a reason...we are supposed to use it to exercise judgement in all matters, including eating. Sure, some folks might have genetic predispositions to eating more, so be it. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, because if those people want to lose weight, they will have to discipline themselves.

Nope, for me, I like to focus on what is within my control and what are successful people doing? I like to look at folks who get off their ass and go to the gym or cycle/jog/swim or partake in some other regular exercise. I like to look at people who know what to put in their mouth and how to provide their bodies with adeqate nutrition. I'm not going to look at folks who make excuses one little bit. Because I do that enough myself.

Healthy lifestyle is as much about thinking properly as it is actually changing habits. In fact, before we can permanently change habits, I believe we need to do a housecleaning of how we think. So I can't see how a book that perpetuates the myth that obesity is not due to overeating, can be helpful to anyone.

That's my two cents on this one...I know you are simply exploring these ideas...I just think reading a book about weight loss serves you better in the long run. How's that gym you joined?
Click to expand...


As I pointed out in my last post, I've finished that book which was a really good read and food for thought - if you'll pardon the pun. The author is the science writer for the New York Times and basically compiles studies as well as a history of weight loss. She doesn't seem to be an advocate for anything in particular. I have been searching the web for the other side. Its easy to say that its all a matter of willpower, but how many people successfully keep off a substantial chunk of weight for say even 5 years. Now as for what successful people do--check out the National Weightcontrol Registry which is a large study of people who have maintained at least a 30 pound weight loss for a year or longer. That's the next place I'm looking. Do I think that book had the whole story on everything? no. However, there is nothing in there that wasn't backed up by very strong and impartial science and there wasn't anything in there which has been dismissed by anything more than the whole "Hey stop eating cheeseburgers and you won't be fat" statements. Any knowledge in the area to me is good knowledge simply because it lets me know what I'm up against. For one thing I think I nowunderstand why having a calorie deficit of 1200-1400 calories per day isn't leading me to a 3 pounds a week weight loss.
 
Cannon:

Your diary is so interesting and scientific. I definitely have to pick up that book as well, sounds like an incredible read.

Here's my take on genetics: those with "fat genes" are more prone to obesity, but its not the overall deciding factor on why they are obese. (unless, of course, you have some sought of metabolic disease or disorder...aka, something with the Thyroid)

You have a good day, and keep up the researching.
 
I love the way you are keeping positive and looking beyond the awkward information for the useful information.

That National Weightcontrol Registry sounds really interesting. I will be checking it out too. Good on you for hunting it down. Personally I joined this site when I was seeking to read other people's success stories because I believe that's what will be most helpful to me. Fortunately this site helped meet that need as well as a bunch of others. :)
 
Wow - well cannon my man - I just jumped in to say ehy - good morning and such - I am not jumping into this debate here - have a good day!!!
 
Hey cannon, hope all is going well with you.

there is no doubt about it, genetics is a powerful thing. But there is still so much we do not know about how the human brain works. I think that trying to draw any mass conclusion about the population in general is quite futile. in my humble opinion, what we all need to do is find the source of our problems on an individual basis. we have to sit down and be objective with ourselves, and think about what makes us overweight. truly be honest with ourselves, take a step out of denial. and when we determine what that problem is, we need to attack it. understandably, those hormones will surely make it harder for some to lose weight than others, and genetic pre-dispositions dont help either. but in essence, those things just send our conscious mind messages. feelings that must be reacted to. eating is a voluntary response to certain stimulus. if we identify those stimulus, we can then target them, and prevent ourselves from losing the battle further. if we cannot defeat the stimulus from sheer willpower and self-control alone, then we hunt for other methods, be them physiological or psychological. in the end, we must accept that some of us may have been given a more difficult path to walk, but at this point in time, we cannot change that. we can either be jealous and hateful of those who have it easy and then remain miserable forever for focusing on the wrong side of things; or we can accept the challenge, and feel a little bit righteous that we have defeated (or are at least honestly fighting) an inner demon that those who are more gifted do not have.

cannon, this thought process of mine here, is the product of about 5 years of self-education on all things exercise and nutrition related. it is wonderful to see you working to educate yourself, for that is the only way to be successful in this endeavor for a lifetime. I hope that you will not take 5 years to be enlightened enough to find what you need to succeed in your personal battle.
 
LOL thanks for the support everybody. I think its an interesting debate, but frankly its not one I really want to have in my diary. The reason is because I don't want my diary to be demotivating. I do feel that that knowledge helps me. First, I am determined to make sure I get a full 7 hours of sleep. Secondly, by researching this information I learned that Steve had a bit of knowledge. What he told me corresponded nicely with my own instinct and that is that people on very long term weight loss like myself can benefit considerably from short 1 or 2 week breaks when they get close to goal. I have a long way to go before then, but it is a way to avoid some of the Leptin triggers. The theory of weight loss has been around for thousands of year and like most things dealing with our bodies, our understanding has changed. There is more to it than eating less and exercising more though that is a great place to start.
 
Cannon 2006 said:
For one thing I think I now understand why having a calorie deficit of 1200-1400 calories per day isn't leading me to a 3 pounds a week weight loss.
Click to expand...

Yes, 1400 cals is way too low. is a good place to figure out how to reduce on calories. I need my sleep for weight loss too. Good luck with everything. And go Senators!!
 
No, its a calorie deficit of 1200 to 1400 pounds not total calories consumed. I keep my diet at 2,100 and I try and do 400 - 500 calories of walking. The best calorie calculator I saw said that at my weight I need about 3,100 to maintain. That number can be as high is 5,500 depending on the calculator. The link you sent showed me at 5,286. However, I know that is not maintenance calories for me.
 
Ive often wondered about the Genes vs the Learned habits theory on obesity.

Is it genetic when your mother is fat, your mothers mother, and your mothers mothers mother ... etc
Or is it just that your mother taught you bad eating habits from when you were a child and to make excuses ... My mother still loves to say 'but if i deep fry it in olive oil its better for me than normal oil!' and 'But this study says chocolate is good for you! so i should eat lots of it!'

So is it really genetic? or has your body been programmed from birth to overeat or eat poor food choices.
I mean if you had never eaten fast food or deep fried, would you crave it?
Do children in etheopia have this problem where they crave an ice cream sunday? These are my questions anyway. Im not a big fan of using genetics to explain everything, i mean humans evolve, we evolve into what we do a lot of the time. Does this mean we are evolving to genetically crave shit food?
Which came first? the chicken or the egg eh? :)

ps. not meaning to be argumentitive here or start anything, just my thoughts on the subject
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top