This thread is stupid.
Breast Implants
- Thread starter aeonteal
- Start date
Wrangell, this isn't something you can just disagree on. This is a very basic fact in statistics.
The fact that you can say that you don't need a control group, I'm sorry to say, very accurately reflects that you don't understand the issue.
Try suggesting to someone doing experimental chemotherapy studies that they don't need a control group, they can just look at the cancer mortality rates in the general population. Why do you think that all medical studies, all tests of the effects of new drugs, always have control groups? It is because they are necessary, without them you don't get any relevant results.
If you take the study you posted, women with suicide and drug/alcohol abuse tendencies could just be 3x as likely to get breast implants. Then breast implants have no impact. Or they could be even more likely to get implants, in which case breast implants reduces the risk of their tendencies surfacing, or vice versa. Or, breast implants could just in normal, healthy women increase the risk of suicide or drug/alcohol abuse (for some reason you've been very adamant that this isn't the case when I've mentioned this possibility earlier, I can't see where you get the facts to dismiss that possibility). You can't tell from that study what's going on. It has no relevant information on this issue of breast implants.
When people say that statistics lie, this is what they're referring to. People who don't understand the basics of statistics can be deceived because they can't grasp that a correlation alone don't explain anything, at all. You're going to go through life and pick up a lot of random opinions based on information you've simply misunderstood.
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Yes it is.
You said " that nothing meaningful can be gleamed from the study " and - this is what what I ' disagreed ' on.
I understand it perfectly well.
You are not manipulating / controlling variables in a controlled environment.
You don't need a control group to control - you are simply comparing the women with implants " suicide rate " to the general population " suicide rate " - a comparison of existing rates. Nothing more.
Again, it is simply correlation / observational study.
Correct.
You are conducting ' experiments ' and screening participants and injecting these people with drugs as part of a ' controlled ' study.
In this case, it is simply a correlation / observational study - nothing more. They are not finding / screening their own sample of women and then giving them implants and then tracking their outcomes for 10++++ years.
Of course it is relevant.
They found that the rate suicide rate of women with implants was found to be 3X that of the suicide rate in the general population and women with implants also had a death rate from alcohol and drug use greater than the general population.
The stats simply suggest some form of correlation may exist - nothing more.
No conclusions or definitive interpretations were established based on the results....so if nothing else, it is worthy of further study.
No one claimed it " explained " anything - they simply observed a correlational relationship. Nothing more.
A correlation was found- nothing more.
Seems you've done the exact same thing.
btw - you never answered my earlier question - either time.....
For example, you gave an example earlier of ....
- Wolves have grey hair
- Bob has grey hair
= Bob is a wolf
Give me the equivalents from the study that highlights that the study is embracing your alleged " false syllogism " above .......
Wolf = .......' ? ' in the study
Bob = .......' ? ' in the study
Grey hair = .' ? ' in the study
Sigh. A single correlation is meaningless, which it really seems you don't get. You continue to disagree with that I find it irrelevant, yet go out of your way to demonstrate you know that it is just a irrelevant correlation.
The study just provided one argument for the syllogism. If you drew any conclusion from the study, you'd be making the false syllogism. If you don't draw any conclusion (ie the study is irrelevant), then obviously you're not making the false syllogism. The point is that if you think you this study says anything, then you're making the false syllogism.
And now you're going to say that "but it is relevant, it shows that...", and I'll say "that's just a correlation", and you'll say "but it warrants further study", and I'll say "that's not really relevant to this discussion about someone considering getting implants, that maybe one day in the future some psychologists are perhaps going to do a study".
If you don't think that any meaningful conclusion, relevant to this thread, can be reached from that study, could you just accept that it really is irrelevant and stop going on about how interesting it is? Otherwise, please post what you think is so interesting about it, other than perhaps some researches will be inspired to make a proper study in the future?
Correct - it's simply a correlation. Some correlations are meaningless, some aren't - and some are ambiguous.
However, whether it is truly an " irrelevant correlation " has yet to be unequivocally determined. And again, you may find the study irrelevant to a discussion of breast implants in women - I don't ( for the reasons I have already mentioned )
Fair enough. We agree to disagree.
The study found simply that found that the rate suicide rate of women with implants was found to be 3X that of the suicide rate in the general population and women with implants also had a death rate from alcohol and drug use greater than the general population.
That is all the study is saying - observed rates among women with implants differed in increased frequency as much as 3 fold from those rates of the general population.
No conclusions have been offered to " explain " the correlations.
Stupid logic IMO.
The fact that any " meaningful conclusion " may not be clearly established ( regarding the correlations ) by such a study, does not automatically make it irrelevant.
Can we drop the argument of the study. You two are reposting the same things over and over.
All I know, is I love Breast Implants, call me shallow, but I love them! :yelrotflmao:
Yeah, there's no point to this thread. They're not really even talking about the designated topic anymore.
All I wanted was a Pepsi....
Well there are plenty of men who are turned on by them, and prenty who are turned off by fake ones, who would prefer small neat ones to fake. My hubby being one of them.
it's like anything else, some prefer blondes, some have a thing for red-heads, some love freckles, some blokes are a dribbling wreck over a nice pair of legs and a firm butt, some like skinny, some love to see curves.
Myself? Well I've been underweight all of my life (even though i always ate like a horse!) until a year ago, and had a lovely firm butt and shapely legs, a trim tummy, but then again I also had skinny over-obvious ribs, tiny barely-an-a breasts and skinny arms. i liked my bottom half, was self-concious about the top.
For the first time in my life I'm in the normal weight bracket and actually have nice rounded breasts that i'm happy about, my ribs don't stick out and there's meat on my arms. Unfortunately my belly has gone from 24 inches to 29, hangs over my trousers (but to be fair i have excess skin from pregnancy and will always have it no matter how trim my waiste is, but with a layer of fat under it it hangs over more), and my butt and thighs have cellulite.
I can't win. I could trim right back down but I'd hate to loose my breasts and have skinny ribs again.
But then I'm a bit ashamed of my belly and hate my cellulite.
But would I have breast implants? Nope. I don't like the look of them.
I'm trying to loose just some of my weight and tone up all over (but especially my tum and butt/thighs) to make that belly less obvious.
But like i say, we all have different tastes. If a woman feels comfortable with having her breasts enlarged with implants and is happy with the results then great, there are plenty of other people who will like how they look too.
Bare in mind that there are also plenty of blokes who really do prefer natural breasts, including small ones, and that there are plenty of men who prefer small to large, natural or not.
it's like anything else, some prefer blondes, some have a thing for red-heads, some love freckles, some blokes are a dribbling wreck over a nice pair of legs and a firm butt, some like skinny, some love to see curves.
Myself? Well I've been underweight all of my life (even though i always ate like a horse!) until a year ago, and had a lovely firm butt and shapely legs, a trim tummy, but then again I also had skinny over-obvious ribs, tiny barely-an-a breasts and skinny arms. i liked my bottom half, was self-concious about the top.
For the first time in my life I'm in the normal weight bracket and actually have nice rounded breasts that i'm happy about, my ribs don't stick out and there's meat on my arms. Unfortunately my belly has gone from 24 inches to 29, hangs over my trousers (but to be fair i have excess skin from pregnancy and will always have it no matter how trim my waiste is, but with a layer of fat under it it hangs over more), and my butt and thighs have cellulite.
I can't win. I could trim right back down but I'd hate to loose my breasts and have skinny ribs again.
But then I'm a bit ashamed of my belly and hate my cellulite.
But would I have breast implants? Nope. I don't like the look of them.
I'm trying to loose just some of my weight and tone up all over (but especially my tum and butt/thighs) to make that belly less obvious.
But like i say, we all have different tastes. If a woman feels comfortable with having her breasts enlarged with implants and is happy with the results then great, there are plenty of other people who will like how they look too.
Bare in mind that there are also plenty of blokes who really do prefer natural breasts, including small ones, and that there are plenty of men who prefer small to large, natural or not.
A
Amie Hazel
Guest
so many fitness models get breast implants (AND THEY ARE THE ONES WHO GET WORK!).... because there is no chance of having nice boobs when you work hard to keep your body fat down and muscle up id know! ive had a baby and gone from a c cup to an e cup back to a b cup. when im done with kids i will be getting implants....but i do think women should wait until after children and until the are extremely happy with the rest of their body....one thing at a time!