A rant about basic concepts I

I found the rant to be very discouraging. The OP implies that a person claiming they aren't losing weight on 1200 calories a day is lying or too stupid to count calories. I find that insulting as I was in that position. It was terrifying. And it had nothing, or little, to do with "starvation mode". It had to do with eating a high carb diet for most of my life and the effect that had on my insulin metabolism. The doctor put me on what I consider to be a low carb diet, but others here might not characterize it that way, so maybe I should add that it was similar to the zone diet. I lost 40 pounds without food quantity restriction. I lost cravings and became full on a normal amount of food. I had been a binge eater.

So what happened -why am I here? For three years, I took care of my bedridden mother who couldn't do anything at all for herself. It was very isolating and depressing as I couldn't leave the house without hiring a caregiver and I slipped back into a terrible diet.

Maybe after I read more posts on this board from people wanting an easy, miracle solution, I'll be as fed up as the OP. But right now I still think people should be given the benefit of a doubt. You don't know until you've walked in their shoes. And while everyone deserves an occasional rant, I'm a little surprised it was made a sticky.
 
laughing cat said:
I found the rant to be very discouraging. The OP implies that a person claiming they aren't losing weight on 1200 calories a day is lying or too stupid to count calories. I find that insulting as I was in that position. It was terrifying. And it had nothing, or little, to do with "starvation mode". It had to do with eating a high carb diet for most of my life and the effect that had on my insulin metabolism. The doctor put me on what I consider to be a low carb diet, but others here might not characterize it that way, so maybe I should add that it was similar to the zone diet. I lost 40 pounds without food quantity restriction. I lost cravings and became full on a normal amount of food. I had been a binge eater.

So what happened -why am I here? For three years, I took care of my bedridden mother who couldn't do anything at all for herself. It was very isolating and depressing as I couldn't leave the house without hiring a caregiver and I slipped back into a terrible diet.

Maybe after I read more posts on this board from people wanting an easy, miracle solution, I'll be as fed up as the OP. But right now I still think people should be given the benefit of a doubt. You don't know until you've walked in their shoes. And while everyone deserves an occasional rant, I'm a little surprised it was made a sticky.
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It was made a sticky because the person who wrote it was one of the most respected people who have ever posted within our community who helped many people to successfully lose weight in a healthy way - myself included. He made over 17,000 postings while he was here and spoke an awful lot of sense. He suggested ways that lots of people could deal with plateaus - but there was then (as there is now) a lot of people who count calories inaccurately and exaggerate the likely effectiveness of exercise such that there is no calorie deficit.

I notice that you spoke out against it 39 minutes after joining the forum in your only posting to date... As you say - Maybe after I read more posts on this board from people wanting an easy, miracle solution, I'll be as fed up as the OP.
Judgement on what should and should not be made sticky lie with people who have been here for more than the 39 minutes between you joining and making this posting. As you say about other things You don't know until you've walked in their shoes.
 
I'd also like to add that Steve never implied that anybody was too lazy or too stupid to count calories. He said that a lot of people do not count accurately, or are not accounting for certain things, and that is something that we come across all the time on this forum. In a majority of cases it does turn out that people eat more than they think, and the amount of cases where there is anything medically wrong with them is almost zero.

In your case, I have a hard time believing that you lost weight on any kind of eating plan that had no quantity restrictions whatsoever. You must have restricted yourself then, otherwise there was something else that played into your loss. Even with healthy conditions, the simple 'you need to eat less calories than you burn' rule still applies.

In essence, the post was made a sticky because it contains a ton of good and helpful information and advice from somebody who knows what they are talking about. I don't see anything insulting in it - if you are doing everything right, and you're still not losing, despite being meticulous with your calories, you know that there must be another reason for this, and personally, I would take it as 'Aha, I'm doing everything this person says, and I'm still not getting results, there must be something wrong medically'. The only way I would probably get a bee in my bonnet about it was if he was actually describing me, and I didn't like to admit that.
 
San said:
I'd also like to add that Steve never implied that anybody was too lazy or too stupid to count calories. He said that a lot of people do not count accurately, or are not accounting for certain things, and that is something that we come across all the time on this forum. In a majority of cases it does turn out that people eat more than they think, and the amount of cases where there is anything medically wrong with them is almost zero.

In your case, I have a hard time believing that you lost weight on any kind of eating plan that had no quantity restrictions whatsoever. You must have restricted yourself then, otherwise there was something else that played into your loss. Even with healthy conditions, the simple 'you need to eat less calories than you burn' rule still applies.

In essence, the post was made a sticky because it contains a ton of good and helpful information and advice from somebody who knows what they are talking about. I don't see anything insulting in it - if you are doing everything right, and you're still not losing, despite being meticulous with your calories, you know that there must be another reason for this, and personally, I would take it as 'Aha, I'm doing everything this person says, and I'm still not getting results, there must be something wrong medically'. The only way I would probably get a bee in my bonnet about it was if he was actually describing me, and I didn't like to admit that.
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If a person isn't counting accurately, then are they just making a lot of mistakes? Day in, day out? If a person's being accused of being unable to write down what he/she eats and do simple arithmetic to add it up, that person being accused of something. Not stupidity, then what?

Your post is an example of what I mean - the attitude I found in the "rant" - here, you already "have a hard time believing" what I said. And yes, there were no quantity restrictions and I never counted counted calories. After a while on that eating program, I needed less food to feel satisfied and ate less. There was no need to restrict portions. I didn't have a strange medical condition - I had what happens to about 2/3 of the population of people who eat high carb diets.

If that sounds foreign to you, I have no doubt that this is not the place for me. This will be my last post, so the last word is all yours.
 
Laughing Cat

Loads of people turn up here and make an assortment of the following mistakes:

  • they guess at quantities instead of meticulously weighing everything... they use scoops and measuring spoons instead of literally putting everything on accurate scales. People find the link in the first posting here http://weight-loss.fitness.com/threads/16780-Easiest-Fat-Loss-Tip-Ever opens their eyes to not weighing literally everything. They have been putting down an apple or banana as "small" or "average" instead of weighing and calculating
  • they forget to include some of their snacks (like fruit is ok as it is healthy)
  • they ignore drinks
  • they ignore cheat days
  • they ignore sauces or fat used in the cooking - because they think I had chicken breast and carrots and broccoli forgetting about the other things on the plate
  • they ignore salad dressing because salad is healthy and good for dieting
  • they decide that veg or other things are "free" because some of it is zero points and therefore free on Weight Watchers
  • they ignore those tastes when cooking to make sure it tastes right or those on dishing up
  • they ignore the mouthfuls from their children's plates - which would be a waste to throw away
  • they ignore sugar free sweets deciding that "sugar free" means that the calories are neglible
  • they select the "trimmed of fat" option for their pork or the "without skin" option for their chicken and then eat the naughty bit and do not recalculate

These little oversights happen literally all the time... The people are not stupid. They are human and make human mistakes... They get better at counting calories and realise that they were having a lot more calories than they had believed to be the case... Many are relieved that they understand why their attempts to count calories had not been working.

You are the only person who believes that these people are stupid. I think that you are actually the person being insulting.

I wish you good luck in finding a forum where excellent advice does not discourage you. It sounds like you should dig out that old diet sheet that worked so well last time and follow it in exactly the same way again making sure that you do not restrict portions and just eat as you would like... If for any reason it does not work - I think that you will be best advised to ask the doctor who suggested it whether restricting portions could help you. Since slipping back into old habits did not work well - ask the doctor to help you to continue to follow this plan in maintenance. Maybe he would be the person to best support you.
 
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Im reading everyones comments and they are quite interesting.In my experience call me old fashioned but isn't just eating healthy and exercising good enough?Your health should be your no.1 priority instead of who eats what when,calories this and that.If your eating healthy and exercising or just keeping active then thats good enough and if you do those 2 things,your body should adjust accordingly.Even if you are overweight,your still healthy.Correct me if i'm wrong im open to anyones opinion.
 
Wlossx1 said:
Im reading everyones comments and they are quite interesting.In my experience call me old fashioned but isn't just eating healthy and exercising good enough?Your health should be your no.1 priority instead of who eats what when,calories this and that.If your eating healthy and exercising or just keeping active then thats good enough and if you do those 2 things,your body should adjust accordingly.Even if you are overweight,your still healthy.Correct me if i'm wrong im open to anyones opinion.
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It is perfectly possible to eat healthy food and be active for your size - but have a weight which is at an unhealthy level. It is also perfectly possible to eat healthy food and be active for your size and gain weight. This is because a lot of people have very large appetites such that they can eat a lot of calories - even of healthy food.

All sorts of factors can affect people's appetites and the quantity of food that they eat.

People do not eat just for nourishment - so a lot of other factors can come into play. A meal can be a social outing to a restaurant where meals can last for literally hours over multiple courses... Hospitality can come into play where people invite others to a meal and want to appear generous hosts. Guests do not want to offend hosts be refusing... There are tons of ways to develop large appetites - and basically get into the habit of eating too much... Many businesses have spent years encouraging people to eat more so they could sell more food in fast food restaurants etc...

Lots of people have bodies which do not simply adjust accordingly... If they did - they would not develop weight problems in the first place... their bodies would have adjusted to their lifestyle...

If I am not mindful I will eat a ton of food and gain weight.
 
It's a very interesting thread :p This little debate was some fun read too.

When you talk about cheat day omega you mean that you eat everything you want?
 
I do not have what I term cheat days... Some people do...
I tend to feel that I have enough slip ups that I really do not need to plan for them...
I do however have days when we eat in a restaurant with friends and I eat things that I would never normally have...

Some people seem to interpret the idea in all sorts of different ways...
Some people are a little more relaxed and lenient with the rules on those days...
Some people are very lenient with the rules...

I would google "diet cheat day" and see what you find... I know that people have written about it on WLF too...

The bottom line is that a very high calorie day in the week will raise your average daily calorie total for the week...
 
That is the positive about it...
LOL I think that its a great thing to tell yourself when you are feeling bad about having a day when you ate something naughty and were feeling bad about having done it...
For me - the problem is not to have too many cheat days... It really needs to be the exception and not the rule...
 
Since I've started I didn't have any cheat days, there might have been days where I've eaten without caring enough, but I've noticed that eating healthily and in normal quantity has grown as a habbit with the diet.

Edit : I would be more worried about eating little things like Ferrero Rocher ( 75 cal for just a stone of FR ...^^)
 
Holy necro Omega, this is a old post I wasn't aware of who was the owner of the forum, thanks for the thread, it was an interesting and informative read, I don't know really what to think about cheat day, I'll keep it the way that is working for me so far.

I have French fries every thursday, it's like I already have a cheat day !
 
Like i said if you eat healthy and exercise everything should work out,your body will adjust,overeating is another issue altogether,you over eat anything your going to gain weight and i've never heard of people overeating healthy food long term,9x out of 10 if they're overeating the first thing they'll eat is gonna be unhealthy.
The whole hospitality thing well you gotta look at your no.1 priority,being healthy,that's up to you if you wanna "go with the flow" and not hurt anyones feelings or you can simply tell them what your trying to do,but i'm not even gonna get into that scenario when there's a million more distractions out there i could talk about.
If your at a restaurant,house,shack,mountain,castle it doesn't matter where you are,if your fully committed to eating healthy and exercising or keeping active then you'll find a way around these obstacles.Eating healthy and exercising for a long period of time is willpower in itself and if you've kept up with it for so long then getting around these things shouldn't be a problem.

What i said was if you eat healthy and exercise then everything should work out,if you do anything else other than those 2 things then obviously it won't work.
 
Of course there are many issues involved in weight loss and that is where i think people spend most of their energy on instead of focusing on eating healthy and exercise which is ultimately what your aiming for.When you are focused on those 2 things, every other issue seems to be that much easier to overcome and in some cases,no issue at all...
 
Neither healthy eating nor exercise are necessarily linked with weight loss. I can lose weight without exercise, and without ever touching anything that is even remotely healthy. At the same time, eating healthy and exercising are no guarantee that things will be easier or that there will be 'no issue' at all. Just because you eat healthy and exercise, that doesn't take away cravings, or miraculously makes you not want to splurge out. If you focus solely on healthy eating and exercise, and don't pay attention to all the other numerous aspects of weight loss, you'll make it unnecessarily hard on yourself.

To lose weight you need to put less energy into your body than you burn. It is that simple, really. So to say that not paying attention to the calories you consume is just completely and utterly wrong. Of course you can overeat on 'healthy' foods. Easily. Fruit is healthy, yet at the same a lot of it is loaded with sugar. Nuts are healthy, but they are loaded with fat, and while it's 'healthy' fat, it's still a massive amount of calories. Gaining weight while being on a 'healthy' diet is actually a rather common thing. Not everybody who puts weight on is a lazy slob who's not doing anything other than stuffing their face with fast food.

And according to you, everybody who can't work out for, let's say, medical reasons, is basically screwed, because without exercise, you can't lose weight, right? And no, not everybody is 'ultimately aiming for healthy eating and exercise'. I'd bet a majority of people would gladly ditch the exercise if they could get away with it. Personally, what I am aiming for is losing weight while still being comfortable, and able to eat like a normal person, and not having to force myself to eat rabbit food all day. So I pay attention to calories. I still eat largely healthy, but do not have to go completely without treats every now and again. And I'm not completely obsessed (or focused on) diet and exercise. It's a necessary evil, no more.

So I whole-heartedly disagree with pretty much every single word you wrote.
 
Wlossx1 said:
Like i said if you eat healthy and exercise everything should work out,your body will adjust
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Like I said - you are wrong - people's body does not adjust.

I can exercise incredibly hard and can easily overeat on things like fruit and nuts if I am not careful. Things that everyone agrees are healthy - but contain a lot of calories...

I often do a solid two hours of hardcore zumba - at top intensity. I do a lot of cardio - I regularly get my pedometer to over 30,000 steps for the day.

In another thread - I saw people commenting today on the many positive health benefits that can be gained from honey http://weight-loss.fitness.com/threads/10636-Cate-s-journey-join-me?p=870834#post870834 - but the fact still remains that it can contain a lot of calories... I could happily have a very high calorie breakfast which consisted of porridge cooked with milk and a lot of honey to sweeten it to my taste... Add in some dried fruit and nuts and I would enjoy it more than ever - but I hate to think of the calorie level of an enjoyable large portion of this healthy meal.

I have often bought fresh fruit from the wholesaler by the box... I can easily have a lot of fresh fruit snacks through the day if I am not mindful...

I could think of plenty other high calorie healthy meals which I would enjoy but know that I need to deny myself.
 
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Thanks

Welcome to the forum, btw. Hope you make yourself a home.
 
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