3 months hard work, gained 5 pounds!

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I posted this in my journal, but I want it out here so newbies can see the pain & frustration and learn to celebrate their losses, even if small....

I saw my nutritionist today...hadn't seen him in just over 3 months!!! His initial observation was that I looked leaner & lighter, he guessed I'd lost about 5 pounds. He always does his pre-lim observation. He said:

My arms looked larger AND more defined & cut
My stomach looked leaner and I had some more ab's definition
My quads looked ridiculously huge

I got on the scale, both of us expecting a modest loss, maybe 3-7 pounds.
I had gained nearly 5 pounds!!!!!

Then he took out the body-fat calipers and we found that I'd lost just a wee bit of body-fat, and that he was pinching me at 12.1%....but let us remember that he's just pinching the subcutaneous fat under the skin, he's only pinching me in 3 areas and the calipers (at least his) tend to measure lower then most means.

Yes, my knee injury set me back on my exercise, but I had compensated with lowering my calories and doing more swimming & upper-body weight-training. But still, after 3 months I was EXTREMELY disappointed with a gain in overall weight.

Of course, my nutritionist tried to assure me that I've not gained fat and it must be a combination of muscle, water and what-not....but it wasn't fat AND the fact that I looked leaner, lighter, had better definition and larger arms means I should be celebrating...but I just don't feel it.

Not to worry, I'm not going to quit....but seriously, I'm at 14-16 hours per week of exercise and I'm eating about 2,150 calories per day maximum and maintaining a solid deficit. I just don't get it. FWIW, my nutritionist (who I'm gonnna just start calling Alan and presume you guys know this)....Alan said of ALL his clients, I am by far the most challenging one ever, bar none!

The only thing I can being to work with is that most people just lose fat and do some exercise...whereas I've transformed myself into an athlete. Even now I'm back to doing 2 spin-classes back to back AND swimming a mile...so I crank 3+ hours and keep going. I move heavy weights and...well, I'm just not the fat guy gone skinny, I'm the fat guy gone (can I say this modestly?) buff. So muscle weighs more then fat, blah blah blah. And in the end, my arms, chest, abs and face all look leaner....so I suppose we have to ignore the
DAMN 5 POUND GAIN
and resovlve ourselves to the bigger picture of how I look & feel.

Dammit. I'm now at 233 5' 8"

The other thing we've done is arranged for me to have a DEXA-scan, it is by far the most accurate body-composition analysis short of disection available. Btw, the water tank has all sorts of confounding issues....bone-density, etc...it's hardly as accurate as people think. The DEXA should tell us what's going on, and we found a local place that has this $16k machine and they do it for just $50. Wish I had done it 1 year ago and then every 3 months, but at least we'll have some point to start with.

Overall, Alan feels I have (at most) another 10-15 pounds of fat to lose before I'm "there"....a bit on the chest, a bit around the love-handles and some on my chin/face....aside from that my arms, legs, back and all are firm muscle. Apparently my initial goal of getting below 200 is just not practical.

Alan wants me to take an entire week off from ALL training, he says athletes are supposed to stop for a whole week every 10-12 weeks and that it'll somehow help re-initiate my thyroid, metabolism, etc.

Frustrated, I endeavor to persevere. I think I'll bug Wrangell to see how I can celebrate my weight GAIN and still see the good side of this....

 

[MsTeechur]

Ah man do I feel your pain!

A little background. In 2002 I looked like this:

After a year of working hard to lose weight and gain fitness, then five years post-of maintenance I look like this:

I work VERY hard to maintain my weight and my fitness. I run an average of 40 miles a week, I am now cycling about 100 miles a week, I swim twice a week. Average calories burned per day is about 800. I journal everything I eat and actually maintain a calorie deficit most days (over the week the average is 1350 net (calories in-calories burned) per day). This weekend I biked 40 miles and ran 2 on Saturday (tri training brick workout) and ran 18.34 miles on Sunday.

Stepped on the scale this morning to welcome a THREE POUND GAIN! :SaiyanSmilie_anim:

But the last time I had my body fat analyzed it came up to 10.5% and my sports nutritionist said do NOT lose any more weight. I'd gained two pounds in the year and was frustrated that this 2 pounds seemed to come from nowhere. When she analyzed my BF it had dropped 2.5%. I'd gained six pounds of muscle and lost four pounds of fat, hence the gain.

So you're probably doing a LOT of muscle building AND fat burning at the same time. Your muscle build may actually be "outweighing" your fat burn so that you are showing a net gain.

There are so many BETTER ways to evaluate if what you're doing is working. How do you feel? I bet you feel fan-freaking-tastic. You say others are noticing you look leaner and more muscular. Your heart certainly thanks you. Your bone density increases with every pounding you give your bones. Your risk factors for a number of life-altering health issues reduces with your continued fitness and attention to diet. Unfortunately the scale can't show you all that!

I'm sure my 3 pound gain has a lot to do with torturing my poor body this weekend. (I don't generally do workouts like that two days in a row, but I'm in this funky marathon training/tri training period where they're overlapping. Poor planning on my part.) I'm probably retaining water BIG time as my poor muscles try to undo the damage I did to them this weekend. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I know, because I do journal my food and exercise daily, that I most certainly didn't eat enough to gain 3 ounces, much less 3 pounds. In fact I actually had a hard time refueling adequately this week. (Gotta fix that. I know better.)

Keep on keeping on. You're doing a fantastic job, obviously.

 

[realworksuks]

Man you must be a pretty big beast at 233 and 12% body fat.

Can I see a picture? Just wanna see what that would look like.


I guess your not satisfied but man, if I was at 233 and 12% body fat I'd be pretty damn happy!

 

[Phate89]

My arms looked larger AND more defined & cut
My stomach looked leaner and I had some more ab's definition
My quads looked ridiculously huge

Thats all you should be going by. Forget the scale.
As long as you see progress in the mirror thats all that matters.

Man you must be a pretty big beast at 233 and 12% body fat.

I agree..thats a lot of LBM

 

[Wrangell]

I posted this in my journal, but I want it out here so newbies can see the pain & frustration and learn to celebrate their losses, even if small....

I saw my nutritionist today...hadn't seen him in just over 3 months!!! His initial observation was that I looked leaner & lighter, he guessed I'd lost about 5 pounds. He always does his pre-lim observation. He said:

My arms looked larger AND more defined & cut
My stomach looked leaner and I had some more ab's definition
My quads looked ridiculously huge

I got on the scale, both of us expecting a modest loss, maybe 3-7 pounds.
I had gained nearly 5 pounds!!!!!

Then he took out the body-fat calipers and we found that I'd lost just a wee bit of body-fat, and that he was pinching me at 12.1%....but let us remember that he's just pinching the subcutaneous fat under the skin, he's only pinching me in 3 areas and the calipers (at least his) tend to measure lower then most means.Yes, my knee injury set me back on my exercise, but I had compensated with lowering my calories and doing more swimming & upper-body weight-training. But still, after 3 months I was EXTREMELY disappointed with a gain in overall weight.

Of course, my nutritionist tried to assure me that I've not gained fat and it must be a combination of muscle, water and what-not....but it wasn't fat AND the fact that I looked leaner, lighter, had better definition and larger arms means I should be celebrating...but I just don't feel it.

Obviously, these would be the primary suspects to account for the gain of 5lbs. - but then again - if it turns out most or all 5 lbs. of it is due to muscle, then this is good thing isn't it ?

You are trying to add at least some muscle aren't you ?

Not to worry, I'm not going to quit....but seriously, I'm at 14-16 hours per week of exercise and I'm eating about 2,150 calories per day maximum and maintaining a solid deficit. I just don't get it. FWIW, my nutritionist (who I'm gonnna just start calling Alan and presume you guys know this)....Alan said of ALL his clients, I am by far the most challenging one ever, bar none!

Are you sure this is 100% accurate ?

Didn't you say in another thread that you didn't document / track your calories ..don't weigh your food ...go out for meals with your wife and buddies etc. ?

Is it possible this 2,150 per day is understated ?

Also, if you are 230 lb. +/- and have days where you do 2 hours of spinning plus 1 hour of swimming plus 1 hour weight sessions 2 x a week..in other word " 14-16 hours per week of exercise " .......did Alan say that 2,150 calories is all you need to fuel these heavy duty exercise hours ?

Only 2,150 for someone who is 230 lbs and doing 14-16 hours of exercise a week seems a bit on the light side IMO.

The only thing I can being to work with is that most people just lose fat and do some exercise...whereas I've transformed myself into an athlete. Even now I'm back to doing 2 spin-classes back to back AND swimming a mile...so I crank 3+ hours and keep going. I move heavy weights and...well, I'm just not the fat guy gone skinny, I'm the fat guy gone (can I say this modestly?) buff. So muscle weighs more then fat, blah blah blah. And in the end, my arms, chest, abs and face all look leaner....so I suppose we have to ignore the
DAMN 5 POUND GAIN
and resovlve ourselves to the bigger picture of how I look & feel.

Dammit. I'm now at 233 5' 8"

The other thing we've done is arranged for me to have a DEXA-scan, it is by far the most accurate body-composition analysis short of disection available. Btw, the water tank has all sorts of confounding issues....bone-density, etc...it's hardly as accurate as people think. The DEXA should tell us what's going on, and we found a local place that has this $16k machine and they do it for just $50. Wish I had done it 1 year ago and then every 3 months, but at least we'll have some point to start with.

Good idea - let the DEXA be your second opinion.

i

Overall, Alan feels I have (at most) another 10-15 pounds of fat to lose before I'm "there"....a bit on the chest, a bit around the love-handles and some on my chin/face....aside from that my arms, legs, back and all are firm muscle. Apparently my initial goal of getting below 200 is just not practical.

I'd say a better desription would be to simply say ..." not easy " ...instead.

Alan wants me to take an entire week off from ALL training, he says athletes are supposed to stop for a whole week every 10-12 weeks and that it'll somehow help re-initiate my thyroid, metabolism, etc.

Frustrated, I endeavor to persevere. I think I'll bug Wrangell to see how I can celebrate my weight GAIN and still see the good side of this....

Given Alan's reputation, I'd take my cues from him...if he's happy with your result I would take that and run with it ...if he is stumped at what's going on then sit back and let him and your trainer and your doctor try some different approaches to get further results or simply agree that there is not much more you can do...or have Alan consult with some of his colleagues about your situation for a second opinion.

A buddy of mine who is a detective in Toronto always says when they are stumped on a case, they inevitably go back to square one and re-examine the evidence over and over again looking for something they missed and or have another set of eyes take a look. Maybe you have to revisit your diet ( most notably - confirming your daily calories ) , spinning, swimming, weight training etc. - in detail - and see if there is some opportunity for change there.

Just as an example, your 2 hours of spinning. Craig Ballantyne here in Toronto is a huge fat loss training guru - i.e Turbulence Training - and he is not a big fan of spinning as an optimal fat loss tool. Here is his article " Spinning for Weight Loss: Why I Don't Approve of It " FYI - perhaps you could share it with Alan and or your trainer and get their thoughts......



...maybe an entirely different HIIT protocol - more ' hard core ' ..if that's possible - from the one you're doing now in spin class may be of some help ...who knows.

 

[realworksuks]

OR instead of doing all those things Wrangell suggested you could just go on a keto diet

seriously though, it sounds like you are working way too hard when the answer could be right there.

Worth a shot anyway, IMO.

 

[Phate89]

OR instead of doing all those things Wrangell suggested you could just go on a keto diet

seriously though, it sounds like you are working way too hard when the answer could be right there.

Worth a shot anyway, IMO.

DUDE. Thats an excellent idea...

Keto diet / 28 days of v-diet

 

[Wrangell]

OR instead of doing all those things Wrangell suggested you could just go on a keto diet

seriously though, it sounds like you are working way too hard when the answer could be right there.

Worth a shot anyway, IMO.

You know what ?

Why not !

BSL - if Alan is telling you to take a week or so off anyway ......then do a hard core keto diet - to the letter ...no cheating - over those 2 weeks.

And if THAT STILL doesn't work and you still don't lose any fat .......then you know with absolute certainty your body chemistry is totally f**cked........and you should immediately get a ticket to the Mayo Clinic and let them solve this mystery of science asap .

 

[Wrangell]

You do not really know how many calories bring in. We've talked a lot about your food and you really only have a vague idea. Somedays I'm absolutely positive you eat way more than you think.

We've talked about how I think about your excessive exercise, as well.

And I've shown you body fat photos, and seen a lot of photos of you, and talked at length. You have a higher bodyfat percentage than you think. You have come a long way since you started, but if you had that low of bodyfat at your weight, you would look a lot different. I'm not saying your fat, just that you're not as lean as you think.

I honestly don't think you're going to get what you want unless you buckle down some with your food. You're not a pig, you're very conscientious, but I think you bring in more calories than you think. I know you exercise A LOT and that's great, you're a monster sometimes and very impressive, but if you feel bad about these five pounds, it's time to buckle down and start counting and planning.

Good post Derwyddon.

I agree.

I think BSL's daily caloric intake is the most obvious issue worthy of a lot more scrutiny

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Okay....lots of great post and as usual I must thank everyone. Here are some of the thoughts going through my head AND Alan's head. He and I spent a LOT of time reviewing all the potential culprits and as I mentioned, he straight-up told me that in all his career he has never been confronted with a so challenging case & presentation as mine.

After our appointment, I took him out to lunch with my othropedic surgeon friend and we all racked out brains...while I sipped my unsweetened ice-tea and had a tuna-salad (which I guessed had about 570 calories and Alan, impressed, agreed and figured I may have even been a bit high on my count).

Heading the list at #1 is the calories-in. Again and again I keep berating myself over the calories coming in. I really truly wish I could say "gosh, maybe I don't really follow it"...but honestly, since my knee injury I've worried about gaining weight and I've seriously buckled-down on counting the crap out of EVERYTHING. I read labels excessively, read charts frequently and yes...even measure stuff! I have the same breakfast each day and I've measured the portions carefully. When I go out to lunch, it's to Sharky's and I have the naked fajite bowl w/o sour-cream...beans, brown rice, chicken and vegetables....all counted. All snacks measured. Dinner is usually about 5-6 ounces of lean meat, vegetables and hardly any carbs. The protein shakes are broken-down in calories too.

I WISH it were as easy as the calories-in being the culprit. I'm quite thorough on the calorie counting!


Voodoo Exercise: many people tell me I'm "over-training"...putting stress on my body, not letting it rest, etc. Could less exercise somehow trigger more fat loss?? What about that concept that "aerobics is the biggest lie" and that putting the stress of long-duration activity causes your body to learn to store more calories for the exercise and this storage capacity is to count for some added weight?

Another odd theory is that I don't run. Right now I can't with my knee healing, but someone told me that running imposes stress on the body that induces weight-loss in order to reduce the weight-related stress to the body. In other words, running in and of itself makes you lighter/leaner as an adaption. Beyond the calories burned, it promotes a leaner body as an adaption to the pounding/stress of the running. AT THE SAME TIME, I was told that because swimming in no-weight-stress on the body, swimming for long periods will cause my body to store more fat...and this trait is evident in seals, whales, etc. Of course, I'm human and I'd figure this doesn't apply....but hey; we're looking for problems here! Lately I've been shortening my swims but swimming them in more of a HIIT fashion; hard, intense, fast-paced, higher HR.


The body-fat%. I concur with Sara....I don't accept nor believe for a moment that I'm 12%. I've straight-up told Alan that I've seen pics of men at 12% and I'm NOT 12% by any stretch of the imagination. Alan, on the other hand, adamantly defends his measurements and keeps saying "The pinches don't lie". Bear in mind, he's pinching the subcutaneous fat just under the skin. My hunch is that the loss of fat in that region lends toward looser skin and that's why his pinches are sinking deeper....he just looks at me with that look that says "I've got a degree in this, this is my life, I know what I'm doing". But let's remember that BF% is the percentage of fat in the body's weight, given the bone-density, muscle-mass, etc....perhaps it's skewed. Either way: MOOT point...I'm scheduling a DEXA scan for next week....this technology uses X-Rays and all sorts of stuff to accurately determine wtf I'm comprised of.

What else? Nutrient timing. I think I'm guilty of not pre-fueling my exercise well. I sometimes eat about 180 calories and then do my 3 hours of exercise, and along the way I drink my protein shake and put back another 450. FlyinFree has suggested that I'm putting my body in starvation mode and inhibiting my fat loss on account of this....I think he has a point.

I also asked Alan, if he just met me, how much fat would he imagine I need to lose...he figured about 10-15 pounds. Like I say, I've got some around the sides/back, a bit on the chest and some on the face....but I'm just built thick.

What else can I tell you? Well...when we go out with friends I'm always the one eating very little. Sometimes my wife, who is in good shape, eats more then me!

Okay...it's time to post pics, you'll all have to see how ugly I am. Tomorrow I'll ask my wife to get some shots...but I've got to warn you, she has NO sense of photographic composition and she'll snap a pic even though anyone with common sense would hesitate and suggest a different angle, better lighting or a different expression the face. You think I'm kidding, but I rely on my 8 year-old daughter for most my pics!

I also just download right to the forum and they come-up as "thumbnails"...I don't know how to post my pics to some service and then reference to them....anyone tell me how?

 

[realworksuks]

What if your metabolism has just slowed down to a halt?

Try taking your temperature when you wake up in the morning. I heard body temp is a way of measuring metabolism on T-Nation.

But yeah, taking a week off from a low calorie diet may do the trick, get your body out of the starvation mode if that's where it is.

I mean, with the exercise you are doing you might be burning off 1500 calories and only eating 2150? That can't be good for more than a while... ya know? That's like a crash diet... will only work for a short time period.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I've shown you body fat photos, and seen a lot of photos of you, and talked at length.

I was young, and I needed the money!

 

[Wrangell]

Okay....lots of great post and as usual I must thank everyone. Here are some of the thoughts going through my head AND Alan's head. He and I spent a LOT of time reviewing all the potential culprits and as I mentioned, he straight-up told me that in all his career he has never been confronted with a so challenging case & presentation as mine.

After our appointment, I took him out to lunch with my othropedic surgeon friend and we all racked out brains...while I sipped my unsweetened ice-tea and had a tuna-salad (which I guessed had about 570 calories and Alan, impressed, agreed and figured I may have even been a bit high on my count).

Heading the list at #1 is the calories-in. Again and again I keep berating myself over the calories coming in. I really truly wish I could say "gosh, maybe I don't really follow it"...but honestly, since my knee injury I've worried about gaining weight and I've seriously buckled-down on counting the crap out of EVERYTHING. I read labels excessively, read charts frequently and yes...even measure stuff! I have the same breakfast each day and I've measured the portions carefully. When I go out to lunch, it's to Sharky's and I have the naked fajite bowl w/o sour-cream...beans, brown rice, chicken and vegetables....all counted. All snacks measured. Dinner is usually about 5-6 ounces of lean meat, vegetables and hardly any carbs. The protein shakes are broken-down in calories too.

I WISH it were as easy as the calories-in being the culprit. I'm quite thorough on the calorie counting!

Again, just to confirm.

But are you actually writing down or documenting in some other way ( i.e fitday ) every single calorie and gram of fat, carbs and protein of every meal and snack - or are you just making your ' best guess ' as to your daily calorie intake ?

Also, on the carbs. Not sure why you said to opt for " hardly any carbs " - with all the cardio and weight training you do.....shouldn't you be taking in a lot of carbs relatively speaking ?

What is you typical macro nutrient - protein, fat, carbs - profile ?

And, what is your BMR calories at 230 lbs - not your ' maintenance calories ? And how does this stack up to your 2,150 calories a day ?

Voodoo Exercise: many people tell me I'm "over-training"...putting stress on my body, not letting it rest, etc. Could less exercise somehow trigger more fat loss?? What about that concept that "aerobics is the biggest lie" and that putting the stress of long-duration activity causes your body to learn to store more calories for the exercise and this storage capacity is to count for some added weight?

I think you are referring to low to moderate ' steady state aerobics - and yes, it is not the most efficient way to shed fat.

Then again, your spinning is likely more akin to doing a form of HIIT - anaerobic training - rather than aerobics exercise ...ditto for your weight training. The only primarily aerobic exercise you really do is your 1 hour of swimming. And as you said before, you swim primarily because you enjoy it......so while you may a few calories while swimming your primary motivation for swimming is not fat loss.

Another odd theory is that I don't run. Right now I can't with my knee healing, but someone told me that running imposes stress on the body that induces weight-loss in order to reduce the weight-related stress to the body. In other words, running in and of itself makes you lighter/leaner as an adaption. Beyond the calories burned, it promotes a leaner body as an adaption to the pounding/stress of the running. AT THE SAME TIME, I was told that because swimming in no-weight-stress on the body, swimming for long periods will cause my body to store more fat...and this trait is evident in seals, whales, etc. Of course, I'm human and I'd figure this doesn't apply....but hey; we're looking for problems here! Lately I've been shortening my swims but swimming them in more of a HIIT fashion; hard, intense, fast-paced, higher HR.

Again, I thought you swam simply because you enjoyed it.

I've different things on swimming. Obviously, a swimmers muscles are just as lean and and fit as a runner's - but, I've also heard of that " store fat " issue you touched on above, the theory that a swimmer's body adapts to a cold liquid environment by carrying needed fat under the skin. The rationale being, this tendency to retain fat is simply nothing more than a good example of your body's ability to ' adapt ' to it's surroundings - in this case, water. So while you'll get ' incredibly fit ' with swimming ( i.e steady state or HIIT swimming) .....you probably won't lose as much fat by swimming compared to some other cardio options...but then again, you won't add fat either. And this is why some think swimming is not the best - ' optimal ' - cardio option for losing fat.

By the way, apart from the whole " retain fat due to cold water " view, one of the other reasons why land-based ( and weight bearing ) exercises like running are recommended for fat loss over swimming is the issue of intensity. Some have said I dont feel like swimming for 30 minutes is even close to the same as running for 30 minutes in terms of heart rate and the amount of calories are burned " . This might be because you would have to do substantially higher intensity level of swimming to achieve the same caloric burn as doing a less intense and more comfortable pace of running.

The body-fat%. I concur with Sara....I don't accept nor believe for a moment that I'm 12%. I've straight-up told Alan that I've seen pics of men at 12% and I'm NOT 12% by any stretch of the imagination. Alan, on the other hand, adamantly defends his measurements and keeps saying "The pinches don't lie". Bear in mind, he's pinching the subcutaneous fat just under the skin. My hunch is that the loss of fat in that region lends toward looser skin and that's why his pinches are sinking deeper....he just looks at me with that look that says "I've got a degree in this, this is my life, I know what I'm doing". But let's remember that BF% is the percentage of fat in the body's weight, given the bone-density, muscle-mass, etc....perhaps it's skewed. Either way: MOOT point...I'm scheduling a DEXA scan for next week....this technology uses X-Rays and all sorts of stuff to accurately determine wtf I'm comprised of.

If you accept the DEXA results - whatever they might be - as 100% accurate and it also comes back at 12% ...will you be happy ?

In other words, what IS your body fat % goal anyway - 15% ? 12 % ? 10 % sub 10% ?

What else? Nutrient timing. I think I'm guilty of not pre-fueling my exercise well. I sometimes eat about 180 calories and then do my 3 hours of exercise, and along the way I drink my protein shake and put back another 450. FlyinFree has suggested that I'm putting my body in starvation mode and inhibiting my fat loss on account of this....I think he has a point.

What does Alan say about this ?

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

But are you actually writing down or documenting in some other way ( i.e fitday ) every single calorie and gram of fat, carbs and protein of every meal and snack - or are you just making your ' best guess ' as to your daily calorie intake?

I'm gonna be honest: yes & no. Some days, when I have time, I write it all down. Most days I stick to the same breakfast, snack & portions...so I don't feel I need to repeatedly write down the same exact numbers again and again.

Please trust me, even Alan is impressed with my keen sense of calorie-counting. I know portion size, I know calories in nutrients quite well.

But I see your angle, I too agree it points to my perhaps eating much more then I realize. That's why I constantly say 'there's more calories in food then you realize' and how calories can sneak-up on you. I keep looking at my caloric intake as the culprit. I mean, think about it: how can I keep burning more calories then I take in and not lose weight??????????? I'm sure you'll be highlighting that.

Also, on the carbs. Not sure why you said to opt for " hardly any carbs " - with all the cardio and weight training you do.....shouldn't you be taking in a lot of carbs relatively speaking ?

I do eat carbs, mostly in the form of fruit and recently some whole-wheat pasta. Of course there's the lettuce in salads and vegetables & beans, but in all I try to keep the calories light.

What is you typical macro nutrient - protein, fat, carbs - profile ?

And, what is your BMR calories at 230 lbs - not your ' maintenance calories ? And how does this stack up to your 2,150 calories a day ?

I haven't broken it down. Alan says it's all balanced and "spot on". As for my calories, they seem rather low. The concept of 'starvation' mode comes to mind. I've had several people tell me I need to exercise less and actually eat more....or just eat more. But how does eating more connect with losing more fat? It's voodoo-science if you ask me or Alan.

The main key I can think of is this: my exercise isn't just some fat-burning cardio...I push hard, I generally work my biking at HR150-155 with sporatic runs that push higher. I swim hard laps as well, I push & lift heavy weights too. My point: I'm not just using my muscles to burn calories, I'm pushing them and building...gaining strength & performance. These gains must account for what we're seeing. As Alan pointed-out: despite the fact that I'm up 5 pounds, my body-fat% did not increase AND I look leaner, more cut and thinner.....so, YET AGAIN, I must reconfigure my thinking & perspective to figure the scale is inept at giving us a complete picture of what is going on and that the bigger picture of still moving in a positive direction. And might I add, blah blah blah.

I thought you swam simply because you enjoyed it.

I do enjoy it, but it's primary purpose is weight-loss and better chest definition. The chlorine destroys my suits and makes my skin dry, and the hair damage sucks. If there were no cardio or fat-loss benefits, I'd probably be swimming a whole lot less!

If you accept the DEXA results - whatever they might be - as 100% accurate and it also comes back at 12% ...will you be happy ?

In other words, what IS your body fat % goal anyway - 15% ? 12 % ? 10 % sub 10% ?

What does Alan say about this ?

The only thing that will satisfy me, in terms of results, is what I see when looking in the mirror. When there is no more soft-roll around my waist, when my chest firms up and I don't have that hint of sag on my right peck, when my chin sucks in some more and my face thins out, when I have some degree of ab definition; THEN I'LL BE HAPPY.

Why DEXA? Because it's only $50 and it'll give me an accurate idea where I'm at so we can see how things progress from here. Also, because I'm sick of Alan insisting I'm 12% when (as you'll soon see in pics) there's no f-in way I'm even near 12%....it's an evaluative tool that I'd like to use just to see where I stand.

Do you have any idea how hard it is for me to workout & train this hard, constantly eat light and watch everyone out-eat me and yet have such slow & low-return results??

We go to restaurants, and I'm the guy sipping my unsweetened ice-tea, dribbling traces of dressing on my salad and eating just one slice of pizza...while my friends are eating a small salad and 3-4 slices of pizza WITH BEER. They exercise maybe once or twice a week, I exercise every day and often for hours...I can bury these guys on the bike, in the pool or on the weights. It sucks! All my trainers, doctor-friends and people I've worked with don't understand it. Just think about it...2 spinning classes and swimming; 3 hours of work, it's got to burn at least 1,500 calories and you know my BMR has to be at least 2,000....so that's 3,500 per day and there's no way in hell, even if I under-calc my caloric intake by 150% that I'm not running a deficit.

This is my life. I've got a great business, a wonderful wife, 3 healthy great kids, a dream house, a dream car, all sorts of free time to enjoy it...EVERYTHING is great, I'm a lucky/fortunate person.....except that I have to put in 500 hours of hard work & deprivation to achieve what the average person can do with 1 hour of modest work and just cutting-out bread. Damn! DAMN DAMN!

Did I mention my hair is receeding?

What can I do? I think I'm gonna try to get more sleep, maybe there's something there. I think I'm gonna try eating more earlier in the day and run lean into the evening. Alan contends it makes no difference but wtf, why not push that to see what gives. Beyond that, I don't have much choice....eating more or exercising less with result in no progress. Think about it, the moment my knee went bust I was no longer doing racquetball or spinning. I kept-up the swimming & weights, but I lost about 4,600 calories of exercise each week. I kept my calories down tight, but if you figure 5 weeks w/o my spin/racquetball, that's about one pound per week. I dunno, I just don't know anymore.

 

[Karky]

you gained 5lbs but your body fat was less or unchanged? that means 5 lbs of muscle. FAT loss is the goal, not weight loss (unless there is something I don't know about and you want in a different weight class or something)

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

And I'm calling shennanigans on the calorie counting, dude. You are always saying "i ate a bite of this" "a few of these" "a handfull of this" "finished my kids..." You are a sufferer of the BLT diet. The Bite Lick Taste diet!

I think you should totally chill out, forget about anyone else, forget about your ego, forget about wanting to not admit mistakes - and just take honest stock about what's happening for the next few days.

It is my honest belief after talking to you the last few months that it is easier for you to believe that you have some crazy ****ed up body as opposed to you're just not quite doing something right, especially when you're working SO HARD.

Wish it were that easy. And this isn't about "ego" or what others think or how they compare to me...this is simply & entirely about me working my butt off, eating light and not seeing the results I should be getting.

I don't finish the kids food, I don't take a lick or taste of this or that. But I hear ya: it's just got to be about what's going into my mouth, there's really no other choice. Even if I didn't exercise, it takes energy to run a body....if I continually took in less then I need, I'd have to lose weight. It's just incredible how much less I eat now as compared to before, and I'm afraid I really do watch & count the calories....you're just presuming I don't because it's the only plausible area. I bet you figure I excercise, don't burn nearly as many calories as my HR-monitor projects and then I get this delusional self-entitlement to consume a "bit" more food on account of my exercise and....there ya go.

 

[Kraken]

At that weight and height with that BMI I'd be scared of you.

I think maybe being so anal about calories is the wrong way to go. I think its about making better choices of food. But thats just me. I'm not very anal about the calories I take in. I do eat healthy foods and I always pass on the junk. Aside from treating myself once in a while.

I feel your pain on the frustration though. Remember our PM convo a while back and remember the things you said to me. Now listen to your own words.

I think Sara maybe on to something here. You are trying too hard. If you look good then who cares what you weigh. I'd be happy to gain 5 lbs right now because I know it would be lean mass. Accept the way you look and forget about the 200 lb mark but don't look at it as failure. See it as your new goal. To be friggin ripped!!!

Focus on how great you feel as well.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I'm not going to reply much more, because you are touchy wither or not you admit it. However, you are not being honest with yourself and until you are you will not progress.

I don't agree with you, I think I'm honest with myself, but I'm also overly hard on myself as well and I have high expectations.

I'm not "touchy". I consider you my friend and as such I know your critcism is well-founded and good-intentioned...I'm just frustrated & annoyed. There are people, friends and even doctors who have spent time with me and seen what I eat and what I do...and even they are confounded as to my slow progress. Alan himself said I looked leaner, was more cut, looked buffer and he projected a 5-pound loss....he was equally speechless when the scale came up with a gain.

As I've stated, the body requires energy and given a restriction of calories, the inevitable outcome must always result in a loss provided the sum of the whole is a caloric deficit. Even eliminating exercise from the equation, I'd still lose weight if my calories were lower then my needs....so it falls as the obvious and only culprit...which in turn gives rise to figure I must be eating more then I think.

I'm going to treat this whole thing as a re-start. Just like a computer that has locked-up, I'm going to go back to square one and re-measure, re-calculate and come up with a new diet. It's time to get really uber-picky with every bite that goes into my mouth.

The thing is, most dieters restrict calories and do some exercise...along the lines of an hour or two of moderate cardio. Okay; I'm not. I swim miles per week, hours on the bike, weights in the weight-room, etc. I'm going 14-17 hours of exercise per week and placing demands on my body that generate muscle-developement AND storage capacity to fuel those needs.

Ya know what...I don't know...but I'm just gonna do a re-start and build from ground-zero.

 

[Dallen]

Why do you care about weight all of a sudden? You gain 5 pounds easily. Day in, day out. It's nothing special, and I wouldn't trust the doctor's scale.

Instead of crunching those bikes in your photos, perhaps you should be crunching weight scales between your biceps. You can say, "5 pounds this" and flex until it breaks.

As far as muscle development, etc, I guess it really doesn't matter in your case. You gained 5 pounds, either way, so I guess you're just worried about the weight. But who would know? You didn't know until you stepped on the scale, so why suddenly does it matter so much when it didn't prior to that?

 

[Wrangell]

The only thing that will satisfy me, in terms of results, is what I see when looking in the mirror. When there is no more soft-roll around my waist, when my chest firms up and I don't have that hint of sag on my right peck, when my chin sucks in some more and my face thins out, when I have some degree of ab definition; THEN I'LL BE HAPPY.

You said you're " doing 14-17 hours of exercise per week " now.

Would you, for example, train 22 +++ hours a week, and or go on some form of extreme diet to shred fat, or hire more time with a trainer, etc. etc. if you discovered that this is what it took to meet those goals you mentioned above ?

Why DEXA? Because it's only $50 and it'll give me an accurate idea where I'm at so we can see how things progress from here. Also, because I'm sick of Alan insisting I'm 12% when (as you'll soon see in pics) there's no f-in way I'm even near 12%....it's an evaluative tool that I'd like to use just to see where I stand.

Fair enough.

Seems to me though, even if DEXA confirms you're at 11%, 12%, 13% - or whatever- it won't matter much...cause given your comments above, I suspect you still won't be happy.

Do you have any idea how hard it is for me to workout & train this hard, constantly eat light and watch everyone out-eat me and yet have such slow & low-return results??

The training is hard - no question. But that is what it takes in most cases...hard work.

You train very hard. You should be commended for that. Without question.

But comparing yourself to others is your own doing. That ' comparison ' is only ' hard ' IMO because you think you need to keep comparing yourself to other people for some reason. In this case, comparing yourself to other people to validate your exercise efforts - that ' hardship ', is one you have created all on your own and are doing to yourself.

You're of the opinion that if you're not getting the ' rate of results that others are, that somehow this is " unfair " that you are some sort of " victim " of a sick genetic prank God played on you when it comes to fat loss and exercise.

Perhaps your body simply reacts to exercise differently than others - in other words, it's likely genetics. So, instead of the the " oh..poor me " attitude ..why not just adopt an " it is was it is " attitude ? Or, if you really feel like you're " losing out " and not getting the results as other do, then change something.

Like an old coach I knew once said, if you want to change for the better, then ' you always change a losing game ' first .

This is my life. I've got a great business, a wonderful wife, 3 healthy great kids, a dream house, a dream car, all sorts of free time to enjoy it...EVERYTHING is great, I'm a lucky/fortunate person.....except that I have to put in 500 hours of hard work & deprivation to achieve what the average person can do with 1 hour of modest work and just cutting-out bread. Damn! DAMN DAMN!

r
Just my personal point of view mind you, but your health and those bolded items above are all that really matter.

Lose your good health, lose your wife and kids and see what a great job and house and boat will really mean in your life.

You are very lucky...count your blessings.