Lose Fat or Gain Muscle?

[narb]

The one question that is stopping me in my tracks is if to lose fat or to gain muscle.
Obviously doing both would be ideal however all the books and websites suggest you take one route or the other as it affects what calories to take in and what workouts to do etc..
I'm quite prepared to take one of the two routes (i've done allot of reading up) however i'm still unsure what route to take.

Here's why:

1) I'm not a muscluar person. My arms are quite skinny as are my legs (forearm = 10" circumference at widest point!!)
2) I've got a good chest size to build with but my stomach is probably where the majority of my body fat % is (35" at widest point!).

So to lose fat means i lose weight, which means i cant build my arms, but means i'll start to define my abs.

But to gain muscle means i've got to put on weight which means i should build my arms/legs but see no results from my abs?

If i could just be advised on which route to take i could go ahead and get on with it, any ideas?

Any help would be fully appreciated

Maybe loose weight and then start buildin it back once i've got my abs right?

Sex: Male
Age: 22
Weight: 149lb
Body Fat: (According to healthcentral.com) = 17.5%
(According maximuscle.com) = 20.3%

 

[Nicolasd]

Start with building muscle, unless your fat is really bothering you. It'll put you in better shape, you'll gain calorieburning muscle, you'll be able to workout harder, it'll just make cutting easier afterwards.

And building muscle and strength will probably motivate you more than just losing weight. Being big and strong with some fat beats just being skinny in my book.

You might even see some fat go while building muscle if you're just starting out.

And you don't have to go all the way with one then switch to the other, build muscle for some months so you see some results, then do a cut if you want.

 

[deskilla]

Yeah im building muscle and it feels like im losing fat too. Its pretty awsome.

Noobie muscle eats fat

 

[Phate89]

When i was over weight, i just concentrated on losing fat because it really bothered me, and i'm still happy with my choice

I had to sacrifice some muscle, but it was worth how much fat i lost.

 

[Jam]

I'll also have to agree with building muscle. It will feel and look like you're losing weight because you're still burning calories while you're building up. It's worked for me these pass months.

 

[Phate89]

You can't burn fat while build muscle, even while the muscle will burn calories that just means you have to continue to eat more or your body will be in a catabolic state.

Gain fat, gain muscle
lost fat, lose muscle

Its a personal choice on how much bf% you have.

 

[goergen1]

First off. You are 149lbs. At that weight work on gaining muscle.

As far as the gain muscle and losing fat thing goes.

Most people can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, it is only when you are more advanced that you have to choose one or the other. (and sometimes not even then.)

 

[Phate89]

Unless you are zig zagging your calories how could you lose fat while gaining muscle? To gain muscle, obviously you need to be in a surplus. If your in a surplus you can't lose fat.

What is so confusing about this?

 

[Danger_Dave]

absolute noobs can lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously for a short period of time.

otherwise, that's correct you don't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. You can gain strength while cutting, I have anyway, because a portion of strength gains are adaptations of the central nervous system, your body becomes better at recruiting muscle fibers for a particular movement and therefore is stronger at that movement without hypertrophy.

 

[benelson101]

Most people can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, it is only when you are more advanced that you have to choose one or the other. (and sometimes not even then.)

This isnt true.

The newbie phenomenon of losing fat and gaining muscle only happens when someone goes into training from nothing, and is over such a short space of time that by the time someone learns of it they've been training too long to make use of it.

At 149llbs you should bulk, no question. We all want the ideal body in as short a time as possible but in reality it takes time. Part of that process is ensuring that you have enough muscle to cut down to without looking plain skinny. This is something i learned the hard way.

Most people see wobbly bits of skin and flesh on their bodies and think they need to shift it as quick as possible. In reality, the body is going to grip onto these last troublesome fatty bits, and you can cut and cut and end up removing more muscle than fat. If you add on muscle the fat becomes less noticeable, and its better to have a small amount of fat on a muscular figure than no fat on an under-developed body.

 

[Karky]

You can gain muscle and drop fat at the same time without being a newbie. But it's hard, your diet and training has to be pretty spot on, and most people think it's better to just bulk and cut, because gaining and dropping at the same time can be a slow process.

 

[goergen1]

Unless you are zig zagging your calories how could you lose fat while gaining muscle? To gain muscle, obviously you need to be in a surplus. If your in a surplus you can't lose fat.

What is so confusing about this?

There is nothing confusing about this. That is just not how it works in real life. Most people can gain muscle and lose fat.

I have seen it happen 100's of times. From collegiate athletes (who are definitely not noobs) to regular people.

I have seen it happen with people who have been training for years and simply decide to take it more seriously.

There were 5 guys in the gym I train at who did it this summer. They were definitely not noobs.

I know everyone says that "if you are trying to cut you can't gain muscle because you are not getting enough calories." I know they also say that "You can't lose fat during a bulk because you are eating too many calories."

That being said. I have seen people bulk and lose BF. I have seen people cut, and also gain muscle. I have seen this in people who are not noobs.

The question then becomes.

How many times do you have to see it before you believe it is possible?

 

[Typhon]

The question then becomes.

How many times do you have to see it before you believe it is possible?

I've seen your videos so I'm certainly not going to argue with you

I think this is one of those cases where it works for some but not others. Either that or the level of dicipline you need to cut fat and gain muscle is so high that the vast majority would never be able to pull it off.

 

[goergen1]

Either that or the level of decipline you need to cut fat and gain muscle is so high that the vast majority would never be able to pull it off.

It is funny that you say that.

I contend that 98% of all people who workout have never experienced a hard workout. Most think they have, but fail to see that it is still only a fraction of what they can do.

This is a big reason that I am such an advocate of finding great people to training with. It raises the intensity level quite a bit.

This is also the reason I always advise people to go and find more people to learn from.

I think this is one of those cases where it works for some but not others.

I think it will work with all people. Most will just need an external push. Some things cannot be learned by yourself.

I needed the push.

 

[Karky]

I'm trying to look up some stuff on Alan Aragon and his "Culking" which is basicly a linear approach, gaining muscle very slowly, instead of taking the cutting and bulking cycles. I belive this involves gaining muscle while losing small amounts of BF.

 

[Nicolasd]

There is nothing confusing about this. That is just not how it works in real life. Most people can gain muscle and lose fat.

I have seen it happen 100's of times. From collegiate athletes (who are definitely not noobs) to regular people.

I have seen it happen with people who have been training for years and simply decide to take it more seriously.

There were 5 guys in the gym I train at who did it this summer. They were definitely not noobs.

I know everyone says that "if you are trying to cut you can't gain muscle because you are not getting enough calories." I know they also say that "You can't lose fat during a bulk because you are eating too many calories."

That being said. I have seen people bulk and lose BF. I have seen people cut, and also gain muscle. I have seen this in people who are not noobs.

The question then becomes.

How many times do you have to see it before you believe it is possible?

Bah goergen, don't come here with your observations when the theory says otherwise! :yelrotflmao:

Anyway, my homebrewed, probably really inaccurate way of seeing it is a graph displaying "nutrition concentration" as a function of time. When you're very high on the graph, you're building both fat and muscle, lower down you're building mostly muscle, around the zero line nothing is really happening, farther down you're in the negative and mostly fat is being burned, and at the bottom both fat and muscle is being burned.

As you eat the graph rises sharply, then drops gradually as the nutrition is getting processed, until the next meal where it rises again. Eating a few big meals a day gives a few big zigzags, many smaller meals give smaller deviations.

It's very possible to eat in a way that means you're crossing the 0 line several times a day, with periods building muscle following a meal, then losing fat as the line drops below zero before the next meal.

That's my take on it anyway

It explains why most say the get best results on many, smaller meals (they're able to remain in either the "mostly just building muscle" or "mostly just burning fat" bands on the graph), and why those who both lose fat and build muscle don't do either very fast (they're not in the building muscle all the time like bulkers are and they're wasting time crossing the 0 line where nothing is happening).

 

[goergen1]

Bah goergen, don't come here with your observations when the theory says otherwise!

Now that was funny. :yelrotflmao:

That is an interesting thought on the frequent meals.

Though I do not think that everything needs to be buttoned down exactly to get the results people want.

There was a guy in the gym who is on his 4th year of training. He came there to get better results. He gained 23lbs over the summer and lost 2% bodyfat. (he was pretty lean to begin with)

There was no special diet. The overwhelming advice was. "just friggin' eat more. we don't care what it is."

3 or 4 meals a day. Skipped breakfast half of the time. Lots of Moe's after workouts with his training partners.

The body will adapt to any situation if you force it to. I want to make sure that people know that great results can, are, and will continue to be had, even outside the perfect nutritional situation.

 

[benelson101]

so are you suggesting that its something some people just experience or something that can be aimed for?

if so what training and diet does one need? increased but well timed cardio?

(also, its sort of obvious that a clean bulk will decrease body fat %, providing your adding more muscle than fat)

i hate the idea of bulking and cutting, i play sports a lot so bulks tend to weigh me down, whilst cutting leaves me energy-less for competetive and practice sports.

 

[Typhon]

The body will adapt to any situation if you force it to. I want to make sure that people know that great results can, are, and will continue to be had, even outside the perfect nutritional situation.

I love your no BS style

It's important to mention though that the people who do this and get results also work really hard. The last thing someone should do is start to eat like you but train like a pussy (as you already mentioned, most people don't train that hard).

 

[goergen1]

so are you suggesting that its something some people just experience or something that can be aimed for?

Of course it can be aimed for. Generally that means swallowing ones pride, going to get help, and having it thrust upon you. I have seen very few hit these results without help from someone.

if so what training and diet does one need? increased but well timed cardio?

One needs hard training. I am not a big believer in cardio. I find that it is generally unnecessary for great results. I go back to one of my previous posts.

I contend that 98% of all people who workout have never experienced a hard workout. Most think they have, but fail to see that it is still only a fraction of what they can do.

The only way to learn to train hard is by training with someone who already knows what hard training is. There is no description for it on a forum.

i hate the idea of bulking and cutting, i play sports a lot so bulks tend to weigh me down, whilst cutting leaves me energy-less for competetive and practice sports.

Bulking and cutting are bodybuilding terms. Athletes (and most people who just want to look good) do not need bulking and cutting portions of a program.

An athlete needs to get stronger, faster, and more agile. If that happens, he will gain muscle size and will not gain fat.

With proper training, nutrition for most people only needs to be decent. It does not need to be perfect.

How is this possible? It is a lot easier, and a lot more fun to train hard 3 - 5 days per week than it is to eat perfect all the time. The average person is more likely to stick to a great training program than a strict diet. Especially if the change is going to be a "rest of their life" type of thing. If nutrition is decent and the program is good. Results will be had.

I love your no BS style

Thanks CCR. Your the man.

"The world is moving so fast now-a-days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it."
– Elbert Hubbard