InTenSiDaD
SiMeTRía
Adri dijo:
* Por semanas: 5x5 --> 80%, 90%, 100%, 105%, 3x3 --> 105%, 110%
Todos los % respecto al 5RM o 5x5RM inicial.
Método 5x5
- Iniciador del tema yoli
- Start date
* Por semanas: 5x5 --> 80%, 90%, 100%, 105%, 3x3 --> 105%, 110%
Todos los % respecto al 5RM o 5x5RM inicial.
INMORTAL
New member
Yo animaría a los que no llevan demasiado tiempo a que no se cieguen con las rutinas de los intermedios ni mucho medio con las rutinas de avanzados. Simplemente por el hecho de que cada uno busca superar unas dificultades distintas y ha de amoldar el entreno a esas dificultades particulares de cada nivel.
Hacer una rutina más avanzada no significa avanzar más. Todo lo contrario, se avanza más lento o incluso menos, amen del peligro de lesión...
Esta introducción viene al caso de que el 5x5 tiene una rutina para intermedios y otra para avanzados. Pero no hay que confundir intermedios con principiantes.
Para los principiantes Bill Starr recomienda antes de dar el paso hacer una rutina como la "Rippetoe´s Starting Strength".
Saltarse los pasos lógicos y meterse con la intermedia supone mucho menor avance porque cada rutina como he dicho antes está diseñada para un nivel de deportista (SE AVANZA MUCHO MÁS RÁPIDO PASO A PASO).
Hacer una rutina más avanzada no significa avanzar más. Todo lo contrario, se avanza más lento o incluso menos, amen del peligro de lesión...
Esta introducción viene al caso de que el 5x5 tiene una rutina para intermedios y otra para avanzados. Pero no hay que confundir intermedios con principiantes.
Para los principiantes Bill Starr recomienda antes de dar el paso hacer una rutina como la "Rippetoe´s Starting Strength".
Saltarse los pasos lógicos y meterse con la intermedia supone mucho menor avance porque cada rutina como he dicho antes está diseñada para un nivel de deportista (SE AVANZA MUCHO MÁS RÁPIDO PASO A PASO).
INMORTAL
New member
Para el que le interese la rutina previa al 5x5 que Bill Starr propone la pego:
Here is a routine from Mark Rippetoe’s book called “Starting Strength”. You can buy the book at www.startingstrength.com. It includes endless useful info that all beginners should learn. But as for the program he suggests, his clients that he gives it to on AVERAGE gain 30-40 pounds in about 6 months or so which is amazing gains.
The program is as follows:
You alternate Workout A and Workout B every other day, 3 times a week. So you could either do Mon, Wed, Fri or Tues, Thurs. and Sat. Depending on what works best for you.
Example:
Week 1:
Monday - Workout A
Wednesday -Workout B
Friday - Workout A
Week 2:
Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B
Etc.
For the actual workouts read below:
Note: This doesn’t include warm-up sets
**Means this is OPTIONAL**
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)
Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay or Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)
Assistance work:
Most people cant get it through there head that compound lifts also work your arms Plenty and always Insist on direct arm work. As quoted by Madcow2, “Don't **** with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything.” If you are one of these people note that you have the option of doing the dips and chins which give PLENTY of arm work. Abdominal work is fine to do also if needed.
I recommend weighted decline sit-ups and/or Hanging Leg Raises at 2x8-10.
It's fine to add some assistance work such as abs, hypers, or maybe some direct biceps and triceps work, but don't overdo it. For direct arm work, 3 sets of 8 of one lift for each muscle at the end of your last workout of the week will be plenty. Your arms are getting hit hard all week on this routine, so you don't want to blast them with iso stuff as well.
(dips/chins - skullcrusher/curls)
Weight:
As for the weight, make sure that you use the SAME weight throughout the sets. For example if I do the first set if Squats with 200lbs then I do the other 2 sets of squats with 200lbs.
Every week make it a goal to increase each of your lifts by 2.5%. Meaning if I lifted 100lbs for my Bench Week 1 then Week 2 I would try for 102.5lbs. If I did 200lb Squats Week 1 I would try for 205lbs in Week 2. Sometimes you will be able to do more but don’t mess with your form just to lift more.
Warm-up Sets:
Before all your working sets it is best to do a few warm-up sets. Specifically for your first lift. You don’t have to do the whole thing for the other lifts but definitely the first.
What you do is you ramp your weight up to your working sets.
For example:
2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155
And the working set weight would be 175.
If you are lifting your working sets under 150 I would cut out the 3rd warmup set of 1x5 because it wont be needed.
Rest interval
As for the rest interval, Rippetoe suggests 1-2 minutes for the worksets, with no rest needed for warmups. Typically the workout takes me about 40 minutes, a little longer then you would think when looking at it. When I add my abs in it can run to 50 or so. So as for the guy saying it should take 10, you have no idea what you are talking about.
The Lifts:
**Used references and quotes from Madcow2 and Bodybuilding.com**
Barbell Squat: These should be full range Olympic style squats. Use the full range of your body - that means as low as you can go which for almost everyone is past parallel. If the top of your thighs aren't at least parallel it's for sh!t. If you think this is bad for your knees going low, you and whoever told you that are relying on an old wives tale. Anyone who knows the human body will tell you that below parallel is MUCH safer on the knees whereas parallel and above put all the sheer right on them and doesn’t allow proper transfer of the load to the rest of your body (this is how your body was designed).
Rest a barbell on the upper portion of your back, not your neck. Firmly grip the bar with your hands almost twice your shoulder width apart. Position your feet about shoulder width apart and your toes should be pointing just a little outward with your knees in the same direction. Keep your back as straight as possible and your chin up, bend your knees and slowly lower your hips straight down until your THIGHS ARE AT LEAST PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR. Once you reach the bottom position, press the weight up back to the starting position.
To be honest ATG (Ass to the Grass) squats work the best IMO. What you do is you go ALL the way down until your hamstrings touch your calves and keep the same Olympic squat form.
Barbell Deadlift: Each rep is deweighted fully on the floor. No touch and go. This is called the 'dead'lift because the weight is 'dead' on the ground. You can touch and go warm ups but that's it.
Flat Barbell Bench Press: Lie on a flat bench and firmly position your feet flat on the floor a little more than shoulder width apart. Keep your back flat on the bench! Using a grip broader than shoulder width, hold the barbell above your body, then lower slowly to the middle of your chest. Without bouncing the weight off your chest, drive the barbell up over the middle of your chest until your arms are straight and your elbows are locked. Lower the bar down slowly.
Standing Barbell Military Press: Standing overhead presses. Supporting weight overhead is a fundamental exercise and stimulates the whole body.
Raise barbell to your chest with your hands shoulder width apart. Lock your legs and hips. Keep your elbows in, slightly under your bar. Press bar to arm's length overhead. Lower to your upper chest or chin (depending on what is comfortable).
Bent Barbell Row: Raise barbell to your chest with your hands shoulder width apart. Lock your legs and hips. Keep your elbows in, slightly under your bar. Press bar to arm's length overhead. Lower to your upper chest or chin (depending on what is comfortable).
You could also do Pendlay Rows which IMO are also better.
Power Clean: This is also a very complicated exercise so here is bodybuilding.com’s detailed instructions on this lift.
Chin-Up: Hold the chin-up bar with a supinated grip (palms facing you) with your hands about 6 to 8 inches apart. Pull yourself up and try to touch either your chin or upper chest to the bar. Return slowly to the starting position. Do NOT swing back and forth! Using this grip works more of your biceps than your back or lats.
Dip: Using the parallel bars, grip the handles and push yourself up to your starting position. With elbows close to body and hips straight, lower body until shoulders are slightly stretched. Push body up in same posture and repeat. You can bend and cross your legs or keep them straight.
The Diet:
If you are bulking, which is what people usually do on this program, you need to be eating like there is no tomorrow. 3000-4000 calories a day. Make sure you get 1 to 2 x your bodyweight in protein (in grams) and more than that in carbs. Mark Rippetoe also suggests that you drink up to a gallon of milk a day and plenty of water.
Your bulk could be clean but its hard to do so. I suggest just going all out and getting any protein you can get your hands on. For example lean grilled chicken and egg whites is best but if you want to gain that muscle fast then ground beef, steaks, whole eggs, cheeses etc is great. Eat a lot of oats, pasta, wheat bread, yogurt, cottage cheese, tuna, etc.
Make sure you get a huge breakfast. Mark recommends 4 huge meals a day with breakfast being the largest. Make sure all your meals have plenty of both carbs and protein! Also look into getting a PWO shake for post workout to get some carbs DIRECTLY into your system when your done lifting. Then an hour later eat a meal. Its also good to eat a snack before bed. Just remember to get big you need to eat big because eating is 90% of your muscle gains.
Here is a routine from Mark Rippetoe’s book called “Starting Strength”. You can buy the book at www.startingstrength.com. It includes endless useful info that all beginners should learn. But as for the program he suggests, his clients that he gives it to on AVERAGE gain 30-40 pounds in about 6 months or so which is amazing gains.
The program is as follows:
You alternate Workout A and Workout B every other day, 3 times a week. So you could either do Mon, Wed, Fri or Tues, Thurs. and Sat. Depending on what works best for you.
Example:
Week 1:
Monday - Workout A
Wednesday -Workout B
Friday - Workout A
Week 2:
Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B
Etc.
For the actual workouts read below:
Note: This doesn’t include warm-up sets
**Means this is OPTIONAL**
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)
Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay or Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)
Assistance work:
Most people cant get it through there head that compound lifts also work your arms Plenty and always Insist on direct arm work. As quoted by Madcow2, “Don't **** with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything.” If you are one of these people note that you have the option of doing the dips and chins which give PLENTY of arm work. Abdominal work is fine to do also if needed.
I recommend weighted decline sit-ups and/or Hanging Leg Raises at 2x8-10.
It's fine to add some assistance work such as abs, hypers, or maybe some direct biceps and triceps work, but don't overdo it. For direct arm work, 3 sets of 8 of one lift for each muscle at the end of your last workout of the week will be plenty. Your arms are getting hit hard all week on this routine, so you don't want to blast them with iso stuff as well.
(dips/chins - skullcrusher/curls)
Weight:
As for the weight, make sure that you use the SAME weight throughout the sets. For example if I do the first set if Squats with 200lbs then I do the other 2 sets of squats with 200lbs.
Every week make it a goal to increase each of your lifts by 2.5%. Meaning if I lifted 100lbs for my Bench Week 1 then Week 2 I would try for 102.5lbs. If I did 200lb Squats Week 1 I would try for 205lbs in Week 2. Sometimes you will be able to do more but don’t mess with your form just to lift more.
Warm-up Sets:
Before all your working sets it is best to do a few warm-up sets. Specifically for your first lift. You don’t have to do the whole thing for the other lifts but definitely the first.
What you do is you ramp your weight up to your working sets.
For example:
2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155
And the working set weight would be 175.
If you are lifting your working sets under 150 I would cut out the 3rd warmup set of 1x5 because it wont be needed.
Rest interval
As for the rest interval, Rippetoe suggests 1-2 minutes for the worksets, with no rest needed for warmups. Typically the workout takes me about 40 minutes, a little longer then you would think when looking at it. When I add my abs in it can run to 50 or so. So as for the guy saying it should take 10, you have no idea what you are talking about.
The Lifts:
**Used references and quotes from Madcow2 and Bodybuilding.com**
Barbell Squat: These should be full range Olympic style squats. Use the full range of your body - that means as low as you can go which for almost everyone is past parallel. If the top of your thighs aren't at least parallel it's for sh!t. If you think this is bad for your knees going low, you and whoever told you that are relying on an old wives tale. Anyone who knows the human body will tell you that below parallel is MUCH safer on the knees whereas parallel and above put all the sheer right on them and doesn’t allow proper transfer of the load to the rest of your body (this is how your body was designed).
Rest a barbell on the upper portion of your back, not your neck. Firmly grip the bar with your hands almost twice your shoulder width apart. Position your feet about shoulder width apart and your toes should be pointing just a little outward with your knees in the same direction. Keep your back as straight as possible and your chin up, bend your knees and slowly lower your hips straight down until your THIGHS ARE AT LEAST PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR. Once you reach the bottom position, press the weight up back to the starting position.
To be honest ATG (Ass to the Grass) squats work the best IMO. What you do is you go ALL the way down until your hamstrings touch your calves and keep the same Olympic squat form.
Barbell Deadlift: Each rep is deweighted fully on the floor. No touch and go. This is called the 'dead'lift because the weight is 'dead' on the ground. You can touch and go warm ups but that's it.
Flat Barbell Bench Press: Lie on a flat bench and firmly position your feet flat on the floor a little more than shoulder width apart. Keep your back flat on the bench! Using a grip broader than shoulder width, hold the barbell above your body, then lower slowly to the middle of your chest. Without bouncing the weight off your chest, drive the barbell up over the middle of your chest until your arms are straight and your elbows are locked. Lower the bar down slowly.
Standing Barbell Military Press: Standing overhead presses. Supporting weight overhead is a fundamental exercise and stimulates the whole body.
Raise barbell to your chest with your hands shoulder width apart. Lock your legs and hips. Keep your elbows in, slightly under your bar. Press bar to arm's length overhead. Lower to your upper chest or chin (depending on what is comfortable).
Bent Barbell Row: Raise barbell to your chest with your hands shoulder width apart. Lock your legs and hips. Keep your elbows in, slightly under your bar. Press bar to arm's length overhead. Lower to your upper chest or chin (depending on what is comfortable).
You could also do Pendlay Rows which IMO are also better.
Power Clean: This is also a very complicated exercise so here is bodybuilding.com’s detailed instructions on this lift.
Chin-Up: Hold the chin-up bar with a supinated grip (palms facing you) with your hands about 6 to 8 inches apart. Pull yourself up and try to touch either your chin or upper chest to the bar. Return slowly to the starting position. Do NOT swing back and forth! Using this grip works more of your biceps than your back or lats.
Dip: Using the parallel bars, grip the handles and push yourself up to your starting position. With elbows close to body and hips straight, lower body until shoulders are slightly stretched. Push body up in same posture and repeat. You can bend and cross your legs or keep them straight.
The Diet:
If you are bulking, which is what people usually do on this program, you need to be eating like there is no tomorrow. 3000-4000 calories a day. Make sure you get 1 to 2 x your bodyweight in protein (in grams) and more than that in carbs. Mark Rippetoe also suggests that you drink up to a gallon of milk a day and plenty of water.
Your bulk could be clean but its hard to do so. I suggest just going all out and getting any protein you can get your hands on. For example lean grilled chicken and egg whites is best but if you want to gain that muscle fast then ground beef, steaks, whole eggs, cheeses etc is great. Eat a lot of oats, pasta, wheat bread, yogurt, cottage cheese, tuna, etc.
Make sure you get a huge breakfast. Mark recommends 4 huge meals a day with breakfast being the largest. Make sure all your meals have plenty of both carbs and protein! Also look into getting a PWO shake for post workout to get some carbs DIRECTLY into your system when your done lifting. Then an hour later eat a meal. Its also good to eat a snack before bed. Just remember to get big you need to eat big because eating is 90% of your muscle gains.
Vuelvo a subir este tema para hacer una pregunta que puede parecer tonta pero mu gustaria que resolvieseis por favor.
-A la hora de meter los pesos en la hoja excel que me descargue sobre el 5x5 de bill starr, Variación por Madcow hay que hacerlo con el peso de la barra incluido???
Gracias. Un saludo
-A la hora de meter los pesos en la hoja excel que me descargue sobre el 5x5 de bill starr, Variación por Madcow hay que hacerlo con el peso de la barra incluido???
Gracias. Un saludo
Silvering dijo:
Evidentemente...el peso de la barra también lo levantas...
__genial__
yoli
New member
mmmm, estos dos post, y en otro más de otro hilo que diste la idea de hacer los básicos 5x5 y los accesorios edt, me está rondando en la cabeza... no sé si dentro de 2-3 semanas me fabrique un invento de estos....
Desproporcionao
Super Greg, ¡number one!
mmmm, estos dos post, y en otro más de otro hilo que diste la idea de hacer los básicos 5x5 y los accesorios edt, me está rondando en la cabeza... no sé si dentro de 2-3 semanas me fabrique un invento de estos....
Mmmmm yoli, tu has subido este post porque quieres que sea el proximo "Tema de la semana" ... _lengua_
yoli
New member
jajjja, no puede ser de la semana porque ya tiene meses _lengua_, es para ver si reci lo ve y dice algo....
Jose Recinos
New member
si no afectan tu recuperacion yo digo adelante!
yoli
New member
uyss qeu rapidez
A ver..., tengo claro qeu hay que reclutar nuevas fibras en fuerza para luego hipertrofiar, y que la hipertrofia no debe alargarse mas de 4-6 semanas.
Pero si se hace todo a la vez como en este caso?? Se están creando nuevas fibras y se hipertrofian al mismo tiempo??? O esto no tiene ningún sentido (que es lo que me temo
)
Jose Recinos
New member
uyss qeu rapidez
A ver..., tengo claro qeu hay que reclutar nuevas fibras en fuerza para luego hipertrofiar, y que la hipertrofia no debe alargarse mas de 4-6 semanas.
Pero si se hace todo a la vez como en este caso?? Se están creando nuevas fibras y se hipertrofian al mismo tiempo??? O esto no tiene ningún sentido (que es lo que me temo
Xq no debe alargarse la hipertrofia mas de 4-6 semanas?
No se crean nuevas fibras, la hiperplasia de fibras musculares (Segun yo) no estaba documentada en adultos. Cuando haces fuerza, estas dando el principal estimulo para la hipertrofia q es la carga mecanica, las altas repes con pocos segundos de descanso sirven para activar procesos metabolicos q llevan a q el musculo sea mas "activo" pero la hipertrofia siempre se da claro esta tomando en cuenta de q la dieta lo permita
InTenSiDaD
SiMeTRía
Se refiere a reclutar nuevas fibras, no crearlas.
Lo de las 4-6 semanas se refiere a ciclos totalmente orientados a la hipertrofia mayoritariamente sarcoplasmática.
Creo que te pregunta por los ciclos híbridos, con bajas y altas, que no son ni ciclos de fuerza puros, ni ciclos de hipertrofia sarcoplasmática puros; que cómo ves lo de reclutar e hipertrofiar al máximo a la vez.
Última edición:
Dorlman
Banned
PD: Hay algo que me llama la atencion y son las células satélites...
En algun momento de nuestra vida se debe dar la hiperplasia, la pregunta mas lógica es cuando (antes de nacer, adolescencia, etc.), es una duda que tengo.
Espero haber sido de ayuda:
__genial__ !!!!! MUCHISIMA SUERTE !!!!!! __genial__
yoli
New member
uyss, gracias inte
, exactamente era eso lo qeu quería preguntar, jejje, lo qeu pasa es que no sé explicarme como tu, gracias!! 
triqui
Monstruo de las Galletas
Me ha surgido una duda.
Hay alguna formula para calcular el 5x5RM a partir del 1RM?? (o del 5RM, que seria lo mismo porque si hay formulas para hallar el 5RM a partir del 1RM)
Lo digo para calcular el 5x5RM de manera mas o menos exacta y tratar de estar lo mas cerca posible de los % requeridos sin llegar al fallo
Hay alguna formula para calcular el 5x5RM a partir del 1RM?? (o del 5RM, que seria lo mismo porque si hay formulas para hallar el 5RM a partir del 1RM)
Lo digo para calcular el 5x5RM de manera mas o menos exacta y tratar de estar lo mas cerca posible de los % requeridos sin llegar al fallo
Pues así a ojete, debe andar por el 85%. Es más, creo que es el 85% (por el programa que estoy haciendo ahora, que eso hay que controlarlo...)