Workout Strategy - Targeting Weight Loss not Muscle Toning

M

MB1

0
Hey Guys,

I am aiming to loose body fat primarily, and to do this I do approx. 2 hrs of cardio a day at approx 80% max HR (about 155-170 bpm). In the last few months ive found that in order to keep my HR at these levels I am conciously engaging the core muscles through the abdominal area, and I have noticed that these muscles have become stronger and more toned. However, since my current goal is weight loss and not muscle tone, I am concerned that exercising in this fashion is not the mose efficient way of achieving my primary goal of weight loss.

I have read that for someone my age (23) that cardio at approx 140 bpm is recommended for weight loss, and the higher HRs are more of a fitness zone. My question is, will I burn more fat at approx 140 bpm than I am burning now at 160-170 bpm if I burn the same amount of calories per workout? Is working out at 170 bpm causing my efforts to be split between muscle tone and weight loss? and does it then follow that if I work out at 140 bpm I will burn more fat for the same amount of calorie expenditure

My weight is 100 kg (220 lb) and my body fat percentage is 22%

Thanks

MB
 
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First, you should be targeting FAT loss, NOT weight loss.

Second, you can burn far more fat after you stop exercising than during exercise with a properly designed routine. This is called EPOC, Enhanced Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption. In fact, a 20 minute HIIT session has been proven to burn more total fat during the 48 hours following the exercise session than any length of LSD (long slow duration) cardio.

Also, exercising for more than about 60 minutes in a session causes most people to store more fat, due to the bodies desire to be ready for the next long duration exercise session.
 
So work smarter not harder?

How does 40 mins/ day HIIT sound to take advantage of this EPOC effect? On the surface though this concerns me as it seems like I wouldn't be putting enough effort in each day. I should integrate a weights routine shouldn't I...

I have been mainly working upper body with squats, bench press, basic stuff but I have not really generated a proper weights plan. Maybe now is the time.

If I do 60 mins/day HIIT and 60 mins weight training? Weight training would be a rotation upper body, core, lower probly with 2 rest days on a tues and thurs.

The last thing I want to do is drive my body into this survival mode where it is protecting itself, but I think that is exactly what I have been doing so I need to restructure my gym time to get more benefits. My main goal is fat loss.
 
One of the most effective programs is:
Day 1: Full Body Weights with heavy compound movements (Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Bent row/Pull up, Military Press)
Day 2: 20 Minute HIIT
Day 3: Weights
Day 4: 20 Minute HIIT
Day 5: Weights
Day 6: 45-60 minutes LSR Cardio

Your HIIT should consist of 6-8 rounds of a 15-30 second sprint, followed by 2 minutes of slow jog. If you can do more than 8 rounds you are simply not sprinting hard enough. The sprint has to be 100% all out as fast as you can go, your arms pumping as hard as they can. After the 6th or so sprint you should feel like puking. Once you can do 8 rounds start to gradually reduce the slow jog time, but you still only need 30 seconds of sprint time. As you progress, the total duration of the HIIT session will get even shorter than 20 minutes, but you still should be able to completely exhaust yourself completely in that time.
 
dswithers said:
Also, exercising for more than about 60 minutes in a session causes most people to store more fat, due to the bodies desire to be ready for the next long duration exercise session.
Click to expand...

So what are the exceptions? You say that this fat storing state happens to 'most people'.

Fat loss is my undisputed focus at this stage, however I realise that I need to restructure my routine somewhat as per the above.

However, since my goal is fat loss, I am very nervous about taking time from cardio and investing it into a strength training routine when i've read on this forum that muscle does not burn a huge amount of calories when compared to fat (well, some say 30-40 cal which has been corrected to 6). Straight cardio has given me good fat loss results which are continuing (while they prolly wont continue forever).

Essentially, I want to make sure that I am investing all of my workout time into my goal of fat loss.

Thanks 4 your help so far
 
ok as dswithers is dealing quite well with the workout side of this I am going to ask about the other part of your weight loss programme i.e. your diet what is that like at the moment.

Also don't take it that you can be the exception to the rule to working out for more then an hour, if you do want to see if you are the exception go to a sports science clinic and spend a fortune and they should be able to test to see if you are one of the minority.
At this point you should be jsut looking to get all the basics done correctly so stop looking for quick fixes, there are none if you want your results to be long term.
 
OK, I eat five meals a day.

Meal 1 : For breakfast I usually eat sugarfree wholegrain biscuits (called weet-bix in aus) with milk or a fruit milkshake. apprx 300 cal (30g carbs, 10g protein)

Meal 2 (3hrs later) I'll eat either a toasted sandwich with leg ham and lite cheese on wholegrain bread or plain tuna with crackers. Sandwich: approx 300 cal (30g carbs, 20g protein), Tuna with crackers: approx 200 cal (18g carbs, 20g protein)

Meal 3 (3 hrs later) I'll eat either a toasted sandwich with leg ham and lite cheese on wholegrain bread or plain tuna with crackers. I also eat some fruit after the third meal, often pre-packaged peach slices. Peach slices: 250 cal (60g carbs - 45g sugar) (ouch)

I workout between meal 3 and 4. 2000 cal (looking to lower this, as per the previous posts)

Meal 4: approx 4 hrs later, I eat one of: pan-fried chicken with veggies, pan-fried chicken with lettuce, steamed veggies. With Fruit. about 500 cal (40g protein, 6g carbs, 4g fat). I fry the chicken in soy sauce instead of oil (82cal/100ml as opposed to 800 for virgin olive oil)

Meal 5: Approx 3 hrs later, I'll eat fruit. approx 200 cal.

So thats 2000 cal total (average).

My BMR is 2200, so theoretically I am a quite severe caloric deficit.

I drink approx 500 ml of coke zero (diet soda sweetened by phenylalanine). I have done some research on phenylalanine and am not confident that is is harmless. If anyone has any information on this I would be very interested to enter a discussion.

I truly appreciate any comment. Here to learn.
 
truthfully I probably try and cut down on the amount of bread you eat even if it is wholegrain, Also per chance do you have the nutrional details of the light cheese, just to see if there is increased sugar content in it.
Also Ham doesn't have the full amino acid profile so I would suggest cutting down on your use of ham and use lean chicken/turkey or beef instead.
Also don't have the peach slices with a main meal as you should be trying to avoid the insulin spike caused by so much sugar. However as you don't seem to have a specific post work out shake it may be wise to eat the peach slices immediatly after your workout with either a protein shake or some chicken, looking to have a ratio of 2:1 simple carbs:protein.
The other thing I would say is that there seems to be a lack of good fats in your diet so you may want to supplement with with fish oil and flax oil.

Other then that if you are working out for 2 hours of HIT cardio a day and only take in 2000 calories a day you are severly undereating. This type of undereating with cause your body to try and hold on to as much fat as it possibly can so eat more.
 
do you also have the amoun of fat and the split of the types of fat.

one other thing is that I would get rid of the fruit in your last meal and instead replace it with cottage cheese instead. As the casein in the cheese will give you a long digesting protein helping to minimise any muscle loss during the night because if fat loss is your main aim you should be aiming to keep as much muscle mass as possible if not even trying to add some as it this will help to aid the weight loss, but my main concern would be the severve undereating especially on a diet that doesn't seem to be that high in protein
 
per slice, 3.2g total, 2.1g saturated fat. This is all the info it has so I am not sure what the other 1.1g of fat is.

I will definitely take on your point about the protein. It is hard for me to gauge the amount of muscle i have lost since I have never really built any muscle, however I intend on doing this once I have reached my goal weight.

I am trying to decide what is the better course of action - to eat more to bring calories up to what I am burning during 2 hrs HIT, or lower my calorie burn during cardio, increase food slightly as per your recommendation, and incorporate a strength routine in the free gym time as per dswithers' recommendation.
 
the other 1.1g will be the break down of poly and mono unstaturated fats.

In relation to bringing up the calories then one place I would up the calories to start with is after your weight sessions on a weight day as this will help maximise any muscle growth that you will get.
As I stated in the earlier post a post workout shake or nutrion immedaitely after a workout is generally the most vital time to get nutrients into you. However if you are going to be doing long workouts of over an hour I would suggest again a small amount of sugar and protein in a shake in the same 2:1 ratio as this will help keep muscle catabolism at bay.
Other then that I would increase the calories and keep the workout lenght some days and vica versa on others as chances are if you are doing HIT quite regulary then you are probably over training and a shorter workout will be of benefit to you
 
I just wanted to point out that 'fat loss' is the same thing as 'toning'.

You don't exercise a certain way to 'tone your muscles'. You lift weights to build up muscle...period.
You shed bodyfat, and that reveals the muscle underneath the layer of fat, allowing people to see muscle definition...which is often called 'muscle tone'.

however, if you lack much muscle mass, then shedding bodyfat just makes you look scrawny/waifish, instead of lean and healthy with good muscle definition/tone.
 
MB1 said:
However, since my goal is fat loss, I am very nervous about taking time from cardio and investing it into a strength training routine when i've read on this forum that muscle does not burn a huge amount of calories when compared to fat (well, some say 30-40 cal which has been corrected to 6). Straight cardio has given me good fat loss results which are continuing (while they prolly wont continue forever).

Essentially, I want to make sure that I am investing all of my workout time into my goal of fat loss.

Thanks 4 your help so far
Click to expand...

In terms of "things you can control" to improve your body composition, this is pretty much it in order:

1. Drugs
2. Strength Training + Diet
10. Cardio

I realize the list jumps from 2 to 10, but the effect really is that drastic.

60 minutes of HIIT is excessive to the point of retarded. If you're doing it right, 20 minutes will be more than enough, and you'd need really no more than 2 sessions of that a week, perhaps with a third thrown in for 30-40 minutes of longer, lower-intensity work.

Your results are almost entirely contingent on lifting weights and eating in a deficit while getting the protein and essential fats required. Cardio's more of an afterthought.
 
So, adopt a workout routine similar to what dswithers proposed:

Day 1: Full Body Weights with heavy compound movements (Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Bent row/Pull up, Military Press)
Day 2: 20 Minute HIIT
Day 3: Weights
Day 4: 20 Minute HIIT
Day 5: Weights
Day 6: 45-60 minutes LSR Cardio

And for Diet, eat a caloric deficit (deficit when compared to my BMR which is 2200 cal), or do I eat a deficit taking into account calories burned during my workouts?

a few other questions - how much of a deficit should I be targeting so as not to drive my body into a fat storing state

Also, about eating meals before/after workouts. Is there a recommended time before or after a workout during which you shouldnt eat a meal? i.e related to how your metabolism responds during the workout
 
MB1 said:
So, adopt a workout routine similar to what dswithers proposed:

Day 1: Full Body Weights with heavy compound movements (Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Bent row/Pull up, Military Press)
Day 2: 20 Minute HIIT
Day 3: Weights
Day 4: 20 Minute HIIT
Day 5: Weights
Day 6: 45-60 minutes LSR Cardio
Click to expand...

Looks good. My suggestion for the FB workouts would be to pick a compound for the lower body (either a squat or deadlift), a press, and an upper body pulling movement for each. Best bet would be to have two workouts that you rotate each time, so you could do a squat/bench/row one session, deadlift/military/pullup the other, and just rotate them each session as you go through each of the three weight days.

And for Diet, eat a caloric deficit (deficit when compared to my BMR which is 2200 cal), or do I eat a deficit taking into account calories burned during my workouts?
Click to expand...

Either or. Both approaches are valid really; the key is to find a dietary intake that gives you teh results you need and stick to it.

a few other questions - how much of a deficit should I be targeting so as not to drive my body into a fat storing state
Click to expand...

10-15% seems to be a good spot to encourage steady fat loss while still allowing for solid workouts.

Also, about eating meals before/after workouts. Is there a recommended time before or after a workout during which you shouldnt eat a meal? i.e related to how your metabolism responds during the workout
Click to expand...

Nah not really. Having food in the gut may or may not affect your workout, but there's no physiological mechanism in play.
 
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