Ok, so it seems that whenever someone comes on the message board and posts their workout routine that contains several isolated exercises, people will immediately post back saying that you need to have only compound exercises (Bench, Squat, Deadlift, etc.). I have even based my plan off these suggestions. But I was wondering why when i am at the gym, the majority or the stronger, bigger people and doing isolation exercises? Why are people not doing compound exercises if they are supposed to be better for you?
Why no isolation???
- Thread starter hoosiers15
- Start date
I am also interested in this; in my workouts I always start out with compound exercises. Such as to work the back I do pullups, and rows, which also hits your biceps and some chest. Then I do bench and inclined bench to work the chest, and the shoulders. But I also do isolation exercises because even with the bench / rows, my triceps are still good to go for a few more rounds; so I do arm extensions on the cable machine, and finish off my biceps with curls. I also work my shoulders with the overhead press - then again those do work triceps and some chest as well...
I dont think we were talking about trying to lose weight...But I found an article that mentions briefly why a 3day a week whole body isnt great.
Under-performing on some exercises. Face it, after working hard on squats and a hip movement, your energy levels will be pretty low. If you have four more compound movements to perform they'll invariably be performed with less effort (voluntarily or not) and focus than the earlier exercises: CON.
Can lead to an unbalanced development. Using only compound movements might lead to an under-stimulation of some muscle groups because the body will use the muscles best suited to do the job during compound movements. As a result, your weaknesses won't improve as much as your strengths
So I guess what i am really asking is what type of plan should i do. i found a good article on t-nation but i still cant pick out a plan.
Testosterone Nation - The Training Strategy Handbook
Under-performing on some exercises. Face it, after working hard on squats and a hip movement, your energy levels will be pretty low. If you have four more compound movements to perform they'll invariably be performed with less effort (voluntarily or not) and focus than the earlier exercises: CON.
Can lead to an unbalanced development. Using only compound movements might lead to an under-stimulation of some muscle groups because the body will use the muscles best suited to do the job during compound movements. As a result, your weaknesses won't improve as much as your strengths
So I guess what i am really asking is what type of plan should i do. i found a good article on t-nation but i still cant pick out a plan.
Testosterone Nation - The Training Strategy Handbook
so, its better to do something like this:
Chest day
Bench press
DB incline bench press
Flyes
Pullovers
Because by the last exersice, you wont be as fatigued as if you did
Squat
Bench press
Row
?
Ehh, wrong. by the last set on you're chest you're preformance would have dropped dramatically.
but if its something like upper/lower or push/pull, then thats a good alternative to fullbody.
another pro with fullbody. after you work a muscle, protein synthesis is elevated for 48 hours in undetrained individuals, for trained folks i think its around 38 before it starts dropping. if you workout full body every other day you keep the proteinsynthesis up
Chest day
Bench press
DB incline bench press
Flyes
Pullovers
Because by the last exersice, you wont be as fatigued as if you did
Squat
Bench press
Row
?
Ehh, wrong. by the last set on you're chest you're preformance would have dropped dramatically.
but if its something like upper/lower or push/pull, then thats a good alternative to fullbody.
another pro with fullbody. after you work a muscle, protein synthesis is elevated for 48 hours in undetrained individuals, for trained folks i think its around 38 before it starts dropping. if you workout full body every other day you keep the proteinsynthesis up
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Also, if you read that article well enough (and thoroughly), it says that splits are advanced routines that a common person should not be doing especially if they don't have a solid muscular base already..and more, that traditionally, those splits are used in bodybuiding and for the genetically elite, and that the average joe (especially any beginner or relative beginner) shouldn't be using it because of risks of overtraining, injury, tendonitis...etc...
Because they are still working their asses off. Their routines arent optimal, but will result in some growth if they eat enough.
Usually the biggest dudes at the gym have the biggest arms and heaviest bench press, but cant lift 100lbs on a squat or deadlift.
However some people also use enhancers. Some also know what they are doing and will use a split in a good way. For most splits are not beneficial.
In my log there is a two part called The Training Split Roundtable, give it a read.
Usually the biggest dudes at the gym have the biggest arms and heaviest bench press, but cant lift 100lbs on a squat or deadlift.
However some people also use enhancers. Some also know what they are doing and will use a split in a good way. For most splits are not beneficial.
In my log there is a two part called The Training Split Roundtable, give it a read.
Complex exercises are the bread and butter (pun intended) of any amateur's workout. Without these, you're not going to gain anything. If you'd like to add some isolation exercises to this to help destroy a particular muscle you feel isn't worked enough, then fine. As long as you're whole body is getting worked overall, you're fine. But people who focus on isolations tend to ignore other muscle groups and the body won't grow because it doesn't like asymmetry. In addition to this, you're opening yourself up to injury from the unworked muscles you're ignoring.
For example, I will do bench/incline bench, then hit some dips (both complex) but then also do some cable extensions afterward since my tri's are still good to go. Cable exercises aren't traditionally isolation (since you use your core to stabilize and your lats etc) but it is much more of an isolation than other tri exercises.
Another example is after doing pullups/chinups and cable rows for biceps and back, I'll do preacher curls to just destroy my biceps. This is the only way to feel like I've worked my bi's. This is okay since I've hit two complex exercises before hitting the isolation.
For example, I will do bench/incline bench, then hit some dips (both complex) but then also do some cable extensions afterward since my tri's are still good to go. Cable exercises aren't traditionally isolation (since you use your core to stabilize and your lats etc) but it is much more of an isolation than other tri exercises.
Another example is after doing pullups/chinups and cable rows for biceps and back, I'll do preacher curls to just destroy my biceps. This is the only way to feel like I've worked my bi's. This is okay since I've hit two complex exercises before hitting the isolation.
Hoosiers15, your best bet is to pick a routine that is based primarily on compound movements and stick with it.
Find something in New Rules of Lifting (you can get at teh library)
or
Bill Starrs 5X5
Defranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards
Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training
Dual Factor Strength Training
There are a ton of good programs out there.
Find something in New Rules of Lifting (you can get at teh library)
or
Bill Starrs 5X5
Defranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards
Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training
Dual Factor Strength Training
There are a ton of good programs out there.
Dudes (hoosiers15 & Servo888),
You can mix-&-match as you like... experiment & see what feels good & what works well for you... you can do any & even all of those workout approaches, or take parts of each & make one you like.
The article discusses PROs & CONs, but some are pretty weak/contradictary, like mentioning that wimping-out & not completing a workout is a CON as is holding back energy in reserve (not giving a MAX effort for each exercise) in completing a workout: truth is that you're rarely -- if ever -- going to give a MAX effort on any given exercise in a workout & not hold back on another exercise, unless you do only 1 exercise each workout... & not one program mentioned had that philosophy. So guess what? You're going to hold back (so forget all about holding-back being a CON).
But not to worry, you can rotate exercises so that today's hold-off or slacker is tomorrow's go-for-broke. Reps & sets can be varied as well either each workout, or each week, or each month, or each new training program [you get the point? You're not locked into doing something that you're unable to do -- DO what you can that makes the most sense for you & in accordance to how your body responds... start with something easy for you & ease into your training & experimenting (& see how your body responds), as you can always add more (weight or reps or sets or exercises or whatever) next workout or work-schedule/routine IF you remain un-injured; but if you jump-in with too much workload too soon, then you risk injury, you'll probably be in great pain, & you may just quit altogether, or be faced with a long lay-off period which are both truly CONs].
And another thing: a truly MAX-effort is dangerous (as it's on the borderline of killing or injuring you, else it really isn't a MAX-effort). The 1st Marathon runner gave a truly MAX-effort: he completed the run & then died.
So DO something that's within your capacity to do that doesn't waste your energy reserves. For example, if you liked the old-school muscle-pumping program but can't do beau-coup sets, then scale it down & do fewer sets of 8-12 reps (& if you like, have periods/workouts where you do less reps, or more reps, & heavier or lighter weights -- as you see fit).
The aim of your experiments is to find one or more ways that work well for you (you might pick a winner right away, & you might not); you'll need to seek ways that balance (appropriate amounts of) EXERCISE, NUTRITION, & REST; & with exercise routines you need to find balances between many factors such as POUNDAGES, FORM, REPS, REP-SPEED, PAUSE-or-NO-PAUSE-BETWEEN-REPS, SETS, REST-BETWEEN-SETS, TOTAL-WORKOUT-DURATION, REST-BETWEEN-WORKOUTS, ROTATION/CHANGE-OF-EXERCISES & VACATIONS/TRAINING-BREAKS (& every injury/disability will have with it another set of variables to consider).
There really are many ways to skin a cat -- so start skinning & see what works (& keep an eye out for other methods).
The most useful saying I believe the late Bruce Lee uttered was something like, "Absorb what is useful." I didn't absorb his other sayings... hmmm... (c;
P.S.: I believe that a good start involves using light to moderately-light weights & slightly-slow reps as you'll feel the muscles being exercised during the set in a safe way, & your muscles will be working the whole distance of each rep, unlike fast, ballistic-style reps where form often takes a back-seat for the sake of increased poundages & the muscles actually relax during the weight's momentum-driven flight on each rep (but this way is a decent way for developing functional power, so you may want to do it from time-to-time later in your training).
You can mix-&-match as you like... experiment & see what feels good & what works well for you... you can do any & even all of those workout approaches, or take parts of each & make one you like.
The article discusses PROs & CONs, but some are pretty weak/contradictary, like mentioning that wimping-out & not completing a workout is a CON as is holding back energy in reserve (not giving a MAX effort for each exercise) in completing a workout: truth is that you're rarely -- if ever -- going to give a MAX effort on any given exercise in a workout & not hold back on another exercise, unless you do only 1 exercise each workout... & not one program mentioned had that philosophy. So guess what? You're going to hold back (so forget all about holding-back being a CON).
But not to worry, you can rotate exercises so that today's hold-off or slacker is tomorrow's go-for-broke. Reps & sets can be varied as well either each workout, or each week, or each month, or each new training program [you get the point? You're not locked into doing something that you're unable to do -- DO what you can that makes the most sense for you & in accordance to how your body responds... start with something easy for you & ease into your training & experimenting (& see how your body responds), as you can always add more (weight or reps or sets or exercises or whatever) next workout or work-schedule/routine IF you remain un-injured; but if you jump-in with too much workload too soon, then you risk injury, you'll probably be in great pain, & you may just quit altogether, or be faced with a long lay-off period which are both truly CONs].
And another thing: a truly MAX-effort is dangerous (as it's on the borderline of killing or injuring you, else it really isn't a MAX-effort). The 1st Marathon runner gave a truly MAX-effort: he completed the run & then died.
So DO something that's within your capacity to do that doesn't waste your energy reserves. For example, if you liked the old-school muscle-pumping program but can't do beau-coup sets, then scale it down & do fewer sets of 8-12 reps (& if you like, have periods/workouts where you do less reps, or more reps, & heavier or lighter weights -- as you see fit).
The aim of your experiments is to find one or more ways that work well for you (you might pick a winner right away, & you might not); you'll need to seek ways that balance (appropriate amounts of) EXERCISE, NUTRITION, & REST; & with exercise routines you need to find balances between many factors such as POUNDAGES, FORM, REPS, REP-SPEED, PAUSE-or-NO-PAUSE-BETWEEN-REPS, SETS, REST-BETWEEN-SETS, TOTAL-WORKOUT-DURATION, REST-BETWEEN-WORKOUTS, ROTATION/CHANGE-OF-EXERCISES & VACATIONS/TRAINING-BREAKS (& every injury/disability will have with it another set of variables to consider).
There really are many ways to skin a cat -- so start skinning & see what works (& keep an eye out for other methods).
The most useful saying I believe the late Bruce Lee uttered was something like, "Absorb what is useful." I didn't absorb his other sayings... hmmm... (c;
P.S.: I believe that a good start involves using light to moderately-light weights & slightly-slow reps as you'll feel the muscles being exercised during the set in a safe way, & your muscles will be working the whole distance of each rep, unlike fast, ballistic-style reps where form often takes a back-seat for the sake of increased poundages & the muscles actually relax during the weight's momentum-driven flight on each rep (but this way is a decent way for developing functional power, so you may want to do it from time-to-time later in your training).
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thanks everyone for replying, but i think i was misunderstood. I was simply wondering why i always see people doing isolation exercises. I wasn't thinking about changing or considering this. but thanks for the replies.