Why I love Lyle...

jeeez...

I'm sure it happens to him quite often too..

Does he have any legal recourse? on principal if nothing else...
 
I'm not sure what he will do. He's out of town for a few days but I plan on talking with him about this. I knew he was going to unleash some fury but wasn't sure what it was about. This is shocking to me.

I plan on writing a big book someday. You damn well better believe I will be inputting some of Lyle's ideas and research into my book. You better believe even more that he'll be given more credit than necessary. And I'll have approval.

Christalmighty... what's even more shocking is how 'large' of a figure Alwyn is in this industry. He's a bright guy and I actually respect him. I should say did respect. I don't see how he could do this. And if he wasn't responsible... I don't see how he couldn't be more on top of his shit to handle this sort of shit. Frankly I'm shocked.

It has a lot of people talking about where do we draw the line. Plagiarism is rampant in this business. I hope something becomes of it, legally speaking, so lessons are learned.
 
not that it matters because integrity is integrity - but when they publish books - do they go thru legitimate publishers or do they go the self publish route.. . (otherwise known as vanity publishing)

Legit publishers I'd hope would have fact checkers, etc (i've worked around magazine publishing too long.. :D
 
He owned that dude. That why I havent written my ground breaking exercise and nutritional manual yet. Some ass will just steal it.
 
From what I remember, Lyle goes the self publishing route.

Not sure about Alwyn.
 
I've seen posts of mine almost copied word for word... but that doesn't bother me. If I spent the time to create a product though, and some other asshat came along and just copied my shit to make a profit from it... I'd probably punch him in the nose.
 
And copied it poorly, no less. The bits that aren't word-for-word show either a lack of grammar skills (effect vs. affect, for instance) or a lack of proofreading skills.
 
Yea, it really is piss poor.

Alwyn has a hardcore following and on another forum I post on, there are actually people suggesting that "they looked at the same research most likely so came to the same conclusions."

LOL.

Same conclusions does not mean almost word for word writing similarities.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but I am having a hard time with this one.
 
I actually sent Lyle an email about this very subject a while ago. I was like, "I'm sure you noticed, but I think you should beat that ass to teach him some manners. I will help you."

Time to BRING DOWN THE WRATH! Wooh wooh.
 
what i do take issue with is the airing of dirty laundry in public...

especially given the lynch mob type mentality that exists on the web...

Resolve the issue in private... and if you get no where in private.. then by all means... go public -but even then it just turns into finger pointing and he said/he said...
 
I tend to agree with that, Mal.

Lyle's board thrives on 'cleaning up' the fitness industry though. Not an excuse, just a fact. They attempt this by a persistant search across the web for new products and books, read the material, and analyze it on Lyle's "hatin forum." From there, shit hits the fan. Based on what I've seen from it, it's actually a productive mentality.

These guys are crooks, and that's not even the worse part. I would be really f-ing pissed if I bought Alwyn's book only to find I'm reading the same exact shit I read in Lyle's book... word for word.

I think Lyle's 'group' figures why not hit them where it hurts. They make lots of money and lawsuits suck bad in terms of cost, aggravation and time. So let's make it apparent to the one thing that matters most to them.... their customers.
 
I actually like lyle's board - some day I'll actually be smart enough to post a response there (and some day donkey's will fly out of my butt too :D... but it's good reading...

Lyle seems like a very ethical person... so he gets the benefit of the doubt...
 
I guess the real reason I'm okay with it is I'm a firm believer in the idea that the standard must rise across the board in the fitness industry... from authors/authorities to trainers.

I'm not sure if lawsuits alone would take care of the problem.

In addition, I want to be an informed consumer since I do buy a shit ton of these products. If it were kept private, things could be swept under the rug a lot easier.

Lyle has good morals.

But another shady guy could threaten lawsuit in Lyle's shoes, get paid off, then simply keep his mouth shut.

Thinking out loud.
 
Yeah, I don't really care for Alwyn's stuff or Lou Schuler's (he's very boring to read - too much "everyman" accomodating Men's Health type bullshit), but I like to be thorough. Besides, NROL was quite the fad for a while. And after that, I was obligated to read the "follow-ups".

The worst is having to read the occasional ad copy. Man is that stuff horrible. If I wasn't blazing through it so fast I'd probably throw up before I finished. That and noticing that much of it is stolen. I see a lot of that, and as you say it's annoying for many reasons. Having shit repeated to me is one of my pet peeves.

I mean I get that it's not terribly complex subject matter and it's pretty hard to pin down what ideas "belong" to who, but as Lyle says, when it's word for word...
 
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Here is an email exchange that occurred between Alwyn and Lyle recently with regards to the situation. Alwyn agree that it could be made public:

Lyle,
I want to address your public accusation of plagiarism and set the record straight.

You may not recall but the chapter in question originally began life as a client handout - and then appeared in my what was tentatively titled Afterburn II and subsequently became two products - Afterburn II (workouts) and the "Real World Fat Loss" Manual.

This was after prior agreement with you via email (see attached emails below).

The chapter is found in the Real World Fat Loss (RWFL) Manual on pages 16-20. The chapter actually ends at the bottom of page 19. On page 20 of the manual the following text appears:
Quote:
(This chapter has been highly influenced by the work of Lyle McDonald and is essentially a very brief summary of his Fat Metabolism chapter in "The Ultimate Diet 2.0. I'd like to thank Lyle for his help both personally and professionally and his contributions to this field. I strongly urge you to check out Lyle's website – ).
When we reprinted this chapter from the RWFL manual into the Warp Speed Fat Loss product, the above paragraph was inadvertently omitted.

This oversight was rectified immediately when this was brought to my attention.

I want to reiterate that this was always listed as a summary of your chapter - never passed off as my work.

The fact that the acknowledging paragraph was not included in WSFL was a huge oversight on my part, and I would have corrected it and rectified it with anyone who had purchased it immediately had you or anyone else simply brought this to my attention. I am deeply sorry about that omission. It was not my intention to not give proper credit, but it was my responsibility and I failed in that, and I want to make it publicly known that I fault no one but myself for that error.

I would be happy to speak with you about this further if you want to give me a call.

--
Alwyn Cosgrove

Above referenced email exchange:

From Alwyn Cosgrove
To Lyle McDonald
Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:45 PM
mailed-bygmail.com

I'm also working on Afterburn II.

I am going to put in a chapter on fat metabolism.
To be honest it will be a short summary - nothing in depth.

However your chapter in UD2.0 has influenced me the most, to the point where I'd feel uncomfortable not saying that directly in the text.
basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).

In other words I want to credit you directly in that chapter.

So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your site, or direct to the book?


AC


Reply:


From Lyle McDonald
To Alwyn Cosgrove
Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:53 PM

At 8:45 PM -0700 8/14/06, Alwyn Cosgrove wrote:

>I'm also working on Afterburn II.
>
>I am going to put in a chapter on fat metabolism.
>To be honest it will be a short summary - nothing in depth.
>
>However your chapter in UD2.0 has influenced me the most, to the point where I'd feel uncomfortable not saying that directly in the text.
>basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).
>
>In other words I want to credit you directly in that chapter.
>
>So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your site, or direct to the book?



Yes (all three)
--
Lyle

"Testosterone is the great equalizer, it turns all men into morons."
- Giles, Buffy the Vampire Slayer


My Reply:

From Alwyn Cosgrove
To Lyle McDonald
Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:58 PM
mailed-by gmail.com



On 8/14/06, Lyle McDonald wrote:

>>So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your
>>site, or direct to the book?

>Yes (all three)


Gotcha.

AC
Click to expand...

What is important here is:

1. Alwyn asked if he could summarize Lyle's work if he gave credit. Actually, he didn't even ask... he simply emailed Lyle and said, "I summarized your work, should I give you credit and if so how?" The problem is he didn't summarize. He copy and pasted. That's stealing. Lyle would have been smart to ask to see a copy of what Alwyn was using but that's besides the point really.

2. Alwyn asked this back in 2006 for a project. He then thinks this email exchange is sufficient enough for permission to use the stolen script from Lyle in all future products? That's laughable.

3. With the realization that number 2 is correct, he also leaves out the credit of where the stolen work comes from? That's a huge oversight, huh? That's damn bad.

4. Since then, on another forum Lou Schuler, the co-author of Alywn's for the New Rules of Lifting book, has publicly apologized for not giving credit for Lyle's work in NROL. He said he thought the ideas were Alwyn's and not Lyle's. He found out later.

I'm sorry but the unprofessionalism is inexcusable at this point. What's next. What's piss poor is you have respected people actually sticking up for Alwyn since he's a 'good guy.'
 
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