What is the actual name for that half ball at the gym?

[nmartinez0531]

Okay...

Well I guess that makes sense then. Well, I think that it does work in certain aspects, but perhaps not as weight loss or a lifelong thing to use, you're right I guess it is kinda faddy. However, it did help me strengthen my knee when I had dislocated my patella, it does help with working on your strength/stability in your knees if used right. And once again Steve, I am sorry if I offended you, I never meant to do that and perhaps I shoulda just kept my mouth shut since that is what I obviously did. However, as I said before alot of your information is helpful.

 

[Steve]

back to bosu trainers for a moment...

I've seen idiot trainers having people jump onto them at the gym for balance exercises - now i'm challenged enough just standing on one leg and trying to touch the bench - jumping onto anything unstable is out of the question.

most of balance, I believe anyhow, i'm probably wrong, comes from core strength - does a bosu trainer (and I dont' want one they take up too much room) aid in core strenth in ways that you couldn't do with general core exercises?

Couple things here.

Training on a bosu ball will improve balance on unstable surfaces. The problem is, many 'experts' use this to assume balance on unstable surfaces will = balance on stable surfaces.

This isn't the case.

Training specificity always applies in all cases. What is training specificity. A specific way of training will elicit a specific adaptation from the body. Most of daily living and sport is done on stable surfaces. Even things like ice hockey since I know the OP is a hockey player. The ice isn't wobbling around. Training must match goals and desired outcomes as best it can if you're going to get optimal results.

Balance is a complex quality.

It stems from multiple facets of physiology; proprioception/body awareness, inner ear (semicircular canals) and vision.

Sure, having a stronger core (which constitutes far more than your 6 pack) certainly helps stabilize the body more. It's the foundation of which all movements are based on.

If I were trying to improve balance with someone though, there would be no work done on a bosu ball. Mabye one exercise, in fact, but it wouldn't involve the feet at all. In some instances I might do pushups on the bosu with the feet elevated... but that's a maybe.

I'd rather do stuff that translates into real world balance on stable surfaces; things like unilateral leg work. Or do balance drills on the stable floor. You can progress balance just like any other quality should be progressed. Bilateral work -> unilateral work -> eyes open -> eyes close, etc, etc.

 

[Steve]

Well I guess that makes sense then. Well, I think that it does work in certain aspects, but perhaps not as weight loss or a lifelong thing to use, you're right I guess it is kinda faddy.

Well the whole point of using critical thinking is to keep things in context to make sure what you're doing actually makes sense.

Bosu balls are commonly used by 'experts' to do 'functional training.'

Whatever that means.

If you walk up and ask one of these so called professionals what exactly functional training is, the answers you get are actually quite comical. They don't have a clue. It's just a new 'tool' the gym purchased and it looks 'special' so why not use it?

That's great.

That's safe.

That's productive.



But when you change the context, which admittedly there was never a lot of context applied in this thread, to something like....

However, it did help me strengthen my knee when I had dislocated my patella,

Rehab and injury is a completely different universe than that of the average trainee/client working out who is out of shape, but not injured.

I can see utility in unstable surface training, such as the bosu ball, in the rehab setting.

it does help with working on your strength/stability in your knees if used right.

Again, in the rehab setting, coming off injury. Certainly. This is a viable tool in certain cases.

Nothing is all good.

Nothing is all bad.

Everything 'works' if applied correctly.

The problem is, most things are used without any understanding and very few questions are asked. It's simply assumed that something is viable in a given context.

And once again Steve, I am sorry if I offended you, I never meant to do that and perhaps I shoulda just kept my mouth shut since that is what I obviously did. However, as I said before alot of your information is helpful.

I'm pretty thick skinned.

It takes a lot more to offend me, trust me. I'm simply defending my original stance to make sure it isn't misconstrued to be something it's not, is all.

You can reply however you see fit. Just be prepared for conversations such as this if you're quick to judge a person or an intention.

 

[nmartinez0531]

Very True...

I thought the same thing when they first started making me use it, but some how in certain areas (mind you with a healing dislocated kneecap) it really did help, but I don't think I would try to use it for like squats or anything else, but there are certain parts of your leg muscles surrounding the knee that it does help, but I suppose you could use alot of other things too and get the same effect. I guess I was just thinking from my POV ya know? And there are several things that do work on stable surfaces also that I have done to strengthen my knee, it was a tough injury, but starting on that ball really helped. However, I am here because I have soooooo much weight to lose, and that's what I really need to focus on instead of making my stupid little comments But if you do have any advise as how to get rid of those evening hunger or munchie pangs, I'd be really grateful!!! I am addicted to food, and I'm not too proud to admit that, that's the hardest part of this whole deal. I love working out, I swim for an hour to 2 hours a night and do crunches and push ups and walk every chance i get, but it's the hunger or cravings that give me the pits!!! Anyhow, I hope that comment I made is water under the bridge and I do sincerely apologize for that. You know how us women are... hehehe.

 

[Steve]

Well if you're truly addicted to food, it makes things pretty tough. Joining a support group might help. It might now. I've seen it go both ways. I think identifying 'trigger foods' and practicing abstinence is a powerful, logical step.

Carb foods are usually trigger foods. They also tend to be the junk easily overeaten. Replacing that stuff in your fridge and pantries with healthier, less calorically dense foods would be my first suggestion.

From there, it's really a matter of sucking it up until you rewire your body/mind.

If it's not truly a food addiction, which in many cases it doesn't seem to be in my experience.... your diet could be causing you to have hunger pangs at night. Being too rigid and restrictive during the day tends to fail people in the later hours. Especially if you're doing a lot of exercise, which drives hunger upward.

If this is the case, it's a matter of looking at how you actually have you 'diet' structured. See what makes sense and what doesn't.

 

[burneeed1]

Why you buying one of them? Generally it's a giant waste of money. Unless your daily routine or sport requires you to have coordination and balance on an unstable surface.

Such as high rope walking or something of that nature. And even then I probably wouldn't use is.

well its not such a waste for the position I play, being a goalie I have to go down on both knees and flare my legs out into what is called a butterfly.... that ball is really good to land on then bounce right back up with a weight vest and added weight.

 

[Phoenyx]

A friend of mine has what I would guess to be the predecessor to the bosu. Similar size, its a half dome in a base, only it has a textured rather than a smooth surface. I stood on it a few times in the past, noticed that it had an impact on my abs just by standing on it. Felt it the next day. Granted that was when I was still very overweight and out of shape.

Still, I made use of the one in the exercise facility at the Luxor while in Las Vegas. Balanced on it while holding a 6lb medicine ball in front of me and doing slow controlled twists. Really felt it in my obliques.

I'd like to get one eventually, but its not a 'gotta have it now' type of thing. I'd much rather get a punching bag.

 

[Steve]

well its not such a waste for the position I play, being a goalie I have to go down on both knees and flare my legs out into what is called a butterfly.... that ball is really good to land on then bounce right back up with a weight vest and added weight.

Gotcha....

Thanks for answering the question.

 

[Steve]

A friend of mine has what I would guess to be the predecessor to the bosu. Similar size, its a half dome in a base, only it has a textured rather than a smooth surface. I stood on it a few times in the past, noticed that it had an impact on my abs just by standing on it. Felt it the next day. Granted that was when I was still very overweight and out of shape.

Still, I made use of the one in the exercise facility at the Luxor while in Las Vegas. Balanced on it while holding a 6lb medicine ball in front of me and doing slow controlled twists. Really felt it in my obliques.

I'd like to get one eventually, but its not a 'gotta have it now' type of thing. I'd much rather get a punching bag.

Now see, that's what I would not buy it for.

 

[jeffisbig]

I bought some personal trainer sessions and he had me use one these while at the same time working muscles that I must not work ever in normal day to day life because even the 10lb weights got to me after the first set.

I got to the point where I had to focus on two things that were both really difficult and I just was moving all over and I couldn't lift the weights up in a controlled movement.

It was very embarrassing.

He also had me use the medicinal ball, and again it was hard to do the exercises with balancing on a surface that was giving under my weight.

 

[Phoenyx]

Now see, that's what I would not buy it for.

Yeah, I know, I wouldn't buy it as a punching bag either... I might miss and hit the hard plastic part.

All smartassery aside... are you saying you wouldn't buy it for ab type work?

Another thing I've noticed about the bosu is it does make your muscles work slightly differently than if you were standing on solid ground. That's probably what I like about it. Just standing on it and maintaining balance, minute shifts in the muscles from the abs on down, kind of reminiscent of the way you used those muscles in belly dance, only in reverse because you are working to keep balance rather than dance.

Just for an experiment I'd like to get my hands on one for a few days, do the isolation practices while standing on the bosu, then do the same ones on solid ground to see if there's a difference. Then try out some of the other exercises I've seen done on/with this thing just to judge for myself whether it would be worth investing in or not.

Still rather get a punching bag first.

 

[Steve]

All smartassery aside... are you saying you wouldn't buy it for ab type work?

No, I would not.

I've admittedly used a bosu before and it actually was for an ab exercise. But there are better ways to get the same effect. That's ONE exercise I've found utility in the bosu. So I, personally, would not waste my money.

Another thing I've noticed about the bosu is it does make your muscles work slightly differently than if you were standing on solid ground.

Well of course. But different doesn't = better.

That's probably what I like about it. Just standing on it and maintaining balance, minute shifts in the muscles from the abs on down, kind of reminiscent of the way you used those muscles in belly dance, only in reverse because you are working to keep balance rather than dance.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you like it b/c you feel like it improves your balance?

Just for an experiment I'd like to get my hands on one for a few days, do the isolation practices while standing on the bosu, then do the same ones on solid ground to see if there's a difference.

What are isolation practices?

Also, how would you tell 'the differences'?

 

[JDhd]

There goes Steve again, pissing everyone off.

 

[Phoenyx]

No, I would not.

I've admittedly used a bosu before and it actually was for an ab exercise. But there are better ways to get the same effect. That's ONE exercise I've found utility in the bosu. So I, personally, would not waste my money.

Ok, I can see where you are coming from on that. And I'd still love to get my hands on one for a few days to a couple weeks, just to see if I really could justify spending the money on one. I may come out of that either totally agreeing with you, or buying one.

Still... punching bag first. (I really need a punching bag)

What exercises would you recommend to get a better effect?

Well of course. But different doesn't = better.

Not always. Sometimes different = worse and sometimes different = better. Just going with what my body felt after utilizing the bosu, and it felt good after utilizing those muscle groups in different ways. Now if there's a better and more economical way of achieving the same effect, I am happy to give that a try too.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you like it b/c you feel like it improves your balance?

Yes. I am not exactly a marvel of coordination. Admittedly my coordination and balance have improved quite a bit over the past few months, but I can still be the proverbial bull in a china shop.

What are isolation practices?

Also, how would you tell 'the differences'?

Isolations in belly dance are where you are learning and/or practicing a move or part of a move only in a certain part of the body. Quite often moves are layered with other moves for choreographing a dance routine, but isolation drills are used for practice purposes. And for strengthening. I credit belly dance for a good majority of where I'm at now physically. Especially when it comes to the definition I have in my abs.

How could I tell the difference? Since I haven't tried, I really don't know. I can imagine that doing shimmies* on a bosu would be wildly different from doing them on solid ground. As well as hip circles, undulations, etc. Definitely not good for the traveling steps, but for the ones in place, might be great. Then again, it might suck royally.

Whether it would be beneficial or not... I don't know. But I bet it would help improve my balance... especially if I practice the moves with a sword balanced on my head.

* (Shimmies) If you've ever watched a belly dancer, and she's moving her hips very rapidly... that's a shimmy. Not the best example, but a relatively short one on youtube... .

There goes Steve again, pissing everyone off.

Nah, he's not pissing me off on this.

 

[Steve]

There goes Steve again, pissing everyone off.

It does seem that questioning is equivalent to making fun of people's moms around here. That I can't help though.

 

[Steve]

What exercises would you recommend to get a better effect?

Depends what effect you're talking about.

So far in this thread it seems we've talked about balance and we've talked about abdominal work.

With core work, I do more stabilization work than anything else. Things like isometrics (think planks) and anti-rotation work (think holding arms straight out in front of you while holding a cable machine handle and facing 90 degrees from the weight stack). It's simply a matter of what you are looking to get out of your training.

With balance, as I've mentioned previously, I would never have my clients use a bosu ball to improve balance. Why? We aren't walking about on giant, bouncy globes all day. We walk on a stable surface and specific training gives you very specific results/adaptations.

To be optimal in terms of improving balance, I need to find ways to have better awareness, proprioception and coordination while doing stuff on a stable surface. Things like unilateral leg work are great for this.

And keeping with results are specific to training, if you were training for the circus, bosu balls would be an excellent tool. However, I've trained a lot of people relatively speaking and I've yet to come across a client who was training for the circus. Not that they don't exist.

In my world, there are better ways of going about things, is all.

Not always. Sometimes different = worse and sometimes different = better.

Right.

So it's a matter of knowing how different tools and protocols affect the body.

In addition, 'worse' and 'better' is extremely context-specific in the case of fitness and goals. What works well for one goal may work terribly for another, touched on above.

Just going with what my body felt after utilizing the bosu, and it felt good after utilizing those muscle groups in different ways.

How do you gauge how well a muscle 'responds' to a particular tool?

Isolations in belly dance are where you are learning and/or practicing a move or part of a move only in a certain part of the body. Quite often moves are layered with other moves for choreographing a dance routine, but isolation drills are used for practice purposes. And for strengthening. I credit belly dance for a good majority of where I'm at now physically. Especially when it comes to the definition I have in my abs.

Interesting, and thanks for that explanation.

So you feel like dance defined your abs? How so?

How could I tell the difference? Since I haven't tried, I really don't know. I can imagine that doing shimmies* on a bosu would be wildly different from doing them on solid ground. As well as hip circles, undulations, etc. Definitely not good for the traveling steps, but for the ones in place, might be great. Then again, it might suck royally.

See training specificity.

If you want to get good at dancing on a soft, squishy surface... use a bosu ball.

If you want to get good at dancing on a stable surface, don't.

Whether it would be beneficial or not... I don't know. But I bet it would help improve my balance... especially if I practice the moves with a sword balanced on my head.

So you are joining the circus?

Nah, he's not pissing me off on this.

I would hope not.

 

[Phoenyx]

Depends what effect you're talking about.

So far in this thread it seems we've talked about balance and we've talked about abdominal work.

With core work, I do more stabilization work than anything else. Things like isometrics (think planks) and anti-rotation work (think holding arms straight out in front of you while holding a cable machine handle and facing 90 degrees from the weight stack). It's simply a matter of what you are looking to get out of your training.

With balance, as I've mentioned previously, I would never have my clients use a bosu ball to improve balance. Why? We aren't walking about on giant, bouncy globes all day. We walk on a stable surface and specific training gives you very specific results/adaptations.

Ok, makes sense. Somewhere in my mind I had the idea that if you can maintain balance on an unstable surface, it would be easier to maintain balance on a stable surface. Makes sense in the strange place known as my mind, anyway.

To be optimal in terms of improving balance, I need to find ways to have better awareness, proprioception and coordination while doing stuff on a stable surface. Things like unilateral leg work are great for this.

Based on what I've been experiencing with it since I started on it a week ago, I'm betting yoga would help with this too.

And keeping with results are specific to training, if you were training for the circus, bosu balls would be an excellent tool. However, I've trained a lot of people relatively speaking and I've yet to come across a client who was training for the circus. Not that they don't exist.

Hey, there's a first time for everything! Just keep that bosu in mind if you ever get anybody geared towards joining Ringling Bros.

How do you gauge how well a muscle 'responds' to a particular tool?

I wish I had a clever response for this one, but truly I don't. What was going on in my head was "ok, try this exercise, see how my body feels afterwards. How does it affect strength, how the muscles develop, look, etc. Probably not the most logical of ways to approach things.

So you feel like dance defined your abs? How so?

Heh. Well, its not called 'belly' dance for nothing! For a good percentage of the moves, you have your lower abs locked, and a lot of the moves center from the abs. If you ever watched pros dance, Rachel Brice being a good example, they are fluid & snakelike in their movements. Since Rachel Brice has a relatively low body fat content, you can really see how her muscles move when she dances. That's really handy in her instructional DVDs.

Heck even the women who have been at it for years, but have more than 15% body fat (and most of the women who belly dance are rather ample), when they dance, you can see the strength in their abdominal area. Earlier this year before I started taking the weight off, I could feel the strength in the abs, hips, legs and glutes improving, even if I still carried a lot of excess fat.

So you are joining the circus?

Nah, the smell of elephants and monkeys makes me ill.

I would hope not.

Believe me, if a man with a strong opinion that challenged mine and asked me pointed questions to make me think pissed me off that easily, I wouldn't have married my husband. 15 years later, we haven't killed each other yet.

 

[Steve]

Ok, makes sense. Somewhere in my mind I had the idea that if you can maintain balance on an unstable surface, it would be easier to maintain balance on a stable surface. Makes sense in the strange place known as my mind, anyway.

A lot of people, including trainers, have fallen into that trap too. It simply isn't so.

Based on what I've been experiencing with it since I started on it a week ago, I'm betting yoga would help with this too.

Yup, I would agree.

I wish I had a clever response for this one, but truly I don't. What was going on in my head was "ok, try this exercise, see how my body feels afterwards. How does it affect strength, how the muscles develop, look, etc. Probably not the most logical of ways to approach things.

The only reason I ask is it's hard to gauge these sorts of things. What many trainees resort to is feeling how sore they are after a workout, which is not a good metric at all.

Heh. Well, its not called 'belly' dance for nothing! For a good percentage of the moves, you have your lower abs locked, and a lot of the moves center from the abs. If you ever watched pros dance, Rachel Brice being a good example, they are fluid & snakelike in their movements. Since Rachel Brice has a relatively low body fat content, you can really see how her muscles move when she dances. That's really handy in her instructional DVDs.

Heck even the women who have been at it for years, but have more than 15% body fat (and most of the women who belly dance are rather ample), when they dance, you can see the strength in their abdominal area. Earlier this year before I started taking the weight off, I could feel the strength in the abs, hips, legs and glutes improving, even if I still carried a lot of excess fat.

In my opinion, I would say bellydancers have good abdominal coordination and body awareness. I'm not sure about it toning your abs though.

Believe me, if a man with a strong opinion that challenged mine and asked me pointed questions to make me think pissed me off that easily, I wouldn't have married my husband. 15 years later, we haven't killed each other yet.

Hahaha, I like that.

 

[burneeed1]

this thread has gotten a little out of hand lol... but anyways here what I was referring to..

 

[Steve]

You really think this thread is out of hand?

I must have such a skewed perception of reality, lol.