My simple point was that they type of calories is most important to weight loss and that in my opinion and experience it is not neccessary to count and record calories!
I don't want to argue. Everyone agrees that the types of calories are important. Your body needs fats, carbs, and proteins.
But from a purely academic point of
weight loss, its a mathematical equation. If calories in < calories out, you lose. If calories in = calories out, you maintain. If calories in > calories out, you gain.
It is mathematically and thermodynamically impossible to gain weight when calories in < calories out, regardless of where those calories came from.
If a person's weight loss has stalled, then for some reason, calories in = calories out.
OK, a worst case scenario, with a horrible diet and calories in < calories out, maybe you lose all muscle and no fat, but you still lose weight. That is not healthy. That is not what we mean when we say calories in < calories out. That is why nearly everytime the candy bar situation is mentioned, its followed with an explanation about why your body needs a balanced diet to maximize fat loss and not just weight loss.
But, that does not mean eating the wrong macro balance causes stalls simply because they're the wrong macros, but rather because for some reason, whether it can be explained or not, calories in = calories out.
Maybe we are just misunderstanding each other? For example, nobody truely expects to lose weight eating nothing but pizza, but not because the energy balance is wrong, but because a daily allottment of calories in pizza would leave most of us hungry and craving more food.
Just as, none of us claim that the type of calories (i.e. macro balance) isn't important to maximize fat loss and not just weight loss, and for overall general health.
But, for a strictly academic definition of weight loss, calories in < calories out is the most important part. For the majority of people, this just means cutting back on things they already eat to the right calorie level. That doesn't mean, switch to a pizza and candy bar diet if they keep the calories low enough. For example, someone who drinks 1000 calories of pop a day gives up pop and starts losing 2lbs per week, changing nothing else.
Remember, most of these suggestions are geared towards beginners with a relatively high amount of fat to lose, not someone who has been training for a long time working to dump the last couple % of body fat. Its all about the context. You've got to ease people in. People don't want to count, yet people have no idea how much they're really eating. Then, people think to lose weight, I just eat as little as possible. So we explain about maintenance level and 3500 calories is a pound and try to get people to see that they don't have to starve themselves to lose weight. We explain that a simple balanced diet of fats, carbs, and proteins is ideal, because for a beginner, thats all it takes. The candy bar diet analogy is thrown out just to exaggerate a point about the energy balance towards people of think they have to cut something entirely out of their diet to lose weight. Its not meant to be taken as a serious suggestion.
Your opinion and experience about counting calories does not necessarily reflect the experiences of everyone. I have said that some people don't need to count. I hope I learn eventually proper portion sizes so that I have an idea about how much food I'm eating. That my body will someday be ok with higher calorie days some days because it will automatically compensate by making me less hungry and thus consume less calories the next day. My body doesn't work that way, or at least, I don't know how to listen to my bodies signals, or something else overrides it. I can lose weight without counting - but I usually end up starving myself. Or, like before I started counting, I was eating too much even though I thought I was eating not enough. As soon as I started counting, I saw weight loss resume. In my case, counting calories kicked me out of a stall that was caused by me eating more than I thought I was.
But you can't just tell newbies to eat some foods and ignore others and you'll be getting the right type of calories, without giving them some idea on how much of it they should be eating. And you can't give a blanket statement "eat XX amount" to everyone without knowing about their body, and figuring out how many calories their body needs, and how much they should eat to lose weight at the rate they want. And then, to make sure it actually happens that way, people need to do some form of accounting. In my experience, the most accurate way is counting calories. You could very easily just eat a little more or a little less depending on your rate of weight loss/inches lost, and that is just another accounting system. The 2 used in conjuntion is pretty unbeatable - you know how much you should be eating, how much you are eating, and how much to adjust.
I'm starting to feel like I'm typing and nobody's reading what I'm saying here.
OK, the type of calories is the most important and counting calories isn't necessary - how do you ensure that you're getting just enough and not too much or too little of the right type of calories? Scale or body measurements? Do you argue that if you counted your calories you would be inconsistent with anything we said regarding calories in < calories out? If not, then what are we arguing for? You're doing everything we said, you're just doing it without the counting. I'm not asking you to quote a textbook here, but if I'm so far off the mark, you should at least be able to say in your own words why the types of calories are more important than the amount of calories for weight loss.
But, the suggestions in this thread were geared towards someone who "doesn't believe in counting calories" but IMO was not only starving themselves but also not getting the right type of calories for such a low calorie diet. My suggestions to count were so that she would know when she could eat more and when she's had enough, not just eat as little as possible. When she says she doesn't believe in calorie counting and sites previous results on a program as why, I try to explain that its not because calorie counting "doesn't work" or "isn't necessary", just that she's doing the same things a different way - still creating a calorie defecit to lose weight. I try to offer a solution that empowers the OP to think for themselves, learn what foods to eat and how much, and be able to carry that information over to maintenance or gaining muscle or whatever thier goals are the rest of their lives.
Coming in to just to argue that the method is broken or doesn't always work or isn't necessary is fine if you want to have a discussion about general methodology, but in this context does nothing to help the OP. Aside from counting calories and calories in < calorie out, I haven't heard a strategy from "the other side" of the argument that highlights the method for eating the right types of calories to lose weight, that teaches the OP how to eat, and lose weight safely, consistently, and healthily, and presents a distinct alternative to counting. Just a lot of bashing the method and saying its not necessary.
Pretend I'm a new member for a minute...
"Hi, I'm matt, I'm 26, 360lbs. I run 5 miles 7 days a week, I do HIIT and lift weights 4 days a week. In my normal day I eat 3 slices of celery, a bowl of special k cerial with skim milk, a slim fast granola bar, a banana, a protein shake, and a frozen healthy choice microwave dinner. I'm trying to cut out fat. I don't eat cheese or almonds and I get low fat or no fat everything. I'm also cutting back on carbs, no more bread or pasta for me. And no more sugar period. I love chocolate, but I'm X-ing it out of my diet completely. I'm super excited because I already lost 10lbs the first week!!! Any other tips for me to improve my weight loss??"
Tell me, how would you respond to this hypothical me, in the context of "the types of calories matter more than the actual number" and "you don't need to count calories"? And we will see, do we give the same advice, or very different advice, at the root of the problem... You may laugh, but that is maybe only slightly exaggerated from some of the first posts from new people on this site.
