Weights routine

I just bought a weight bench, Olympic bar, plates and a bunch of dumbells and am getting into lifting again, i took about 3 years off from real lifting. My memory is a little hazy and I forgot exactly what the routine I was doing 3 years ago was, but this is what i remember. I was doing a split routine, one day doing chest and bi's, the other doing shoulders tri's and back, along with cardio on an elliptical 6 days a week. (i also own an elliptical), but i want to make sure i am getting a balanced workout, so here is what i am doing:
day 1
bench press
incline press
dumbell flies
standing dumbell bicep curls
preacher curls
wide curls (arms angled out from the body, not curling straight up in front)
forearm curls
cardio on my elliptical (30 minutes)

day 2
military press
shoulder flies
front/side lat raises
heavy pants (not sure what the real name is)
back flies
lawnmower
backscratchers (overhead tricep extensions)
tricep kickbacks
dips
cardio on the elliptical (30 minutes)

i will probably add some legs stuff somewhere in the cycle, dead lifts lungs, leg extensions and curls, etc...

does this sound like a solid workout routine?
 
split it

You might want to split your routine like this
Chest/triceps/shoulders
Back/biceps/abs
legs

The reason is that your chest exercises (bench/incline press) already target the Tricep muscles as well. In fact your triceps are most likely to fatique before your chest muscles. Start of with the DB flies to pre-fatique the chest muscles, then the press, then triceps. In this routine your triceps will have a better rest during your back/bicep day.

I suggest you add some form of lunges or squats as well for a good overall workout.
 
Don't do the routine you listed, and don't follow the advise above. Lower the volume and change the set up all together. Check out the weight lifting stickie. Also, you have to many overlapping movements that will lead to over training and virtually no leg movements. I would call that an awful routine.
 
No offense to you silent but there is nothing wrong with a split routine,
The big advantage is that it makes your workout a hell of a lot shorter.
A split routine can be done in 1/2 hour compared to 1 hour for a full body workout. If you still want to do 30 minutes of cardio. Your workout will come to a total of 90 minutes. For what I can see, you have 3 exercises per muscle groups. If you do 2 sets per exercise, you'll do 6 sets per muscle group.... and 12 sets per training if you stick to 2 muscle groups. (I know I am a bit of a math-wonder!!?). That is not a bad format in my opinion.

I did this format during my pre-season and was quite happy with the results, although I did put on more muscle than I intended and didn't fit in my wetsuit anymore. :eek:

The main thing is that you don't overdo it when you start.

ps 1 thing that we do agree on is that you're missing leg exercises.
 
I have nothing against a push/pull or a upper/lower. However, A body part split is simply laughable, in most situations, as a routine(for a variety of reasons).
 
please inform me. If you know any research that can back this up, i would be very interested.
A push-pull split routine is more likely to over train (based on ALL the muscles you use during these exercises)
Day 1 chest/back
Day 2 biceps/triceps
(biceps and triceps will be worked on both days)
Unless you want to do all 4 on the same day....but what about shoulders?, that would be an awful lot of exercises on 1 day. especially if you haven't trained for 3 years.
same thing if you split upper and lower body. There are far more exercises for the upper body because the upper body can make more movements. so once again you end up with an unbalanced workout.
 
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please inform me. If you know any research that can back this up, i would be very interested.
A push-pull split routine is more likely to over train (based on ALL the muscles you use during these exercises)
Day 1 chest/back
Day 2 biceps/triceps
(biceps and triceps will be worked on both days)
Unless you want to do all 4 on the same day....but what about shoulders?, that would be an awful lot of exercises on 1 day. especially if you haven't trained for 3 years.
same thing if you split upper and lower body. There are far more exercises for the upper body because the upper body can make more movements. so once again you end up with an unbalanced workout.

Ok...I could address each point that you made individually, but we can begin with this instead, something that I wrote or another board a few years ago on the subject of multi-split routines:

There are a number of issues with a multi-split (MS) routine that causes them to be both hazardous for long term health and functioning, and inefficient for long-term sustained growth and hypertrophy.

The human body is designed to work in totality, not in isolation. And while one can analyze specific movement patterns and term them 'isolated' movements, in general, we move through and manipulate the space and environment around us through multi-planer, mutli-joint coordinated movements. The development of 'large' muscles and 'small' muscles and their placement on the body is not done by chance: we are constructed through evolution to have a complete system of skeletal muscles that allow us to perform multiple tasks efficiently and purposefully. It is not designed to isolate individual muscles for specific tasks, but to use as many muscles as are available to perform the given function.

When you attempt to artificially isolate a muscle/muscle group, you are breaking this design, which has implications on joint health, connective tissue stability, neuromuscular coordination, bone densities, and the development of speed, strength, power, and function. The use of a large selection of single joint isolation exercises is a significant failing of MS routine design, which is due to the specific methodology of attempted muscular isolation for localized hypertrophy of individual muscles apart from their natural inclusion in a total kinesthetic chain. Multi-joint movements are also difficult to place into a MS routine because of the complexity of the gross muscular innervation of these exercises and an innability to classify the primary mover while ignoring the innervation of other 'unwanted' muscles/muscle groups. By artificially isolating the anatomical heads of the deltoid, for instance, in an attempt to produce maximum hypertrophy of each, the potential to develop an imbalance (where there previously would not have been) between the forces acting on the glenohumeral joint is significantly increased. This can lead to serious shoulder injuries, damage, or pathologies (1). Muscles are designed to work as systems, and to develop and gain strength as a total system, not in an artificial isolation.

Most isolation movements, such as the dumbbell fly, are particularly inefficient in providing proper loading to produce useable adaptations throughout the ROM as well (2). Not only will this develop substantial strain on the agonist at the weakest point within the ROM, it will cause additional stress on the joint and ligamentous structure that protects the joint in an unnatural manner in comparison to real-world functional movement, which does not prepare the individual for sport-specific or life-needs strength and joint stability (3). Ultimately, this methodology will lead to a greater occurrence of musculotendinous trauma, joint instability, and loss of function.

For the implicit desire of localized muscular hypertrophy, isolation exercise may potentially be able to produce a greater localized serum endocrine response over that of compound movements; however, it is the nature of MS routines that ultimately makes this an inferior choice for total hormonal response. The specific loading coupled with volume for optimal endocrine response is found with the manipulation of the greatest number of muscle fibers recruited for an exercise, large muscle group movements, at >85% 1RM for multiple sets (4,5). By the nature of human muscle force and physiology, intensity is inversely related to volume, and as volume increases, intensity must decrease (4,5,6). A MS routine, while utilizing a large volume, must suffer from a decreased intensity of force production, seeking less than maximal/near maximal fiber recruitment and neuromuscular activity for the sake of exercise volume. This is not, therefore, optimal in producing the largest amount of the widest variety of hormones responsible for human muscle tissue hypertrophy, such as testosterone, GH, IGF-1, and thyroid hormones. This is also not optimal for producing maximal increased muscular adaptations of Type II muscle fibers because significant loading is not achieved. Further, it is this continued stimulation of large motor units that will allow for continued growth, with adaptations occurring at the neural level after genetic potential reaches its zenith.(7) It is postulated that hypertrophy will be most prevalent in strength athletes or weightlifters that utilize training protocols of 90-100% of 1RM voluntary contractile force (8), which is not possible in a high volume routine. Additionally, it appears that intensity/load chosen has a far greater effect on muscle size and strength than does volume within a workout design and exercise program (9).

The advantage of increased frequency and total microcycle volume of full-body (FB) workouts or simple splits (SS) when compared to multi-split program designs must also be acknowledged: The frequency of stimulus plays a critical role in increasing muscle strength and size through adaptive gene expression (5,10,11), and this clearly favors FB and SS over MS routine designs.

The natural, drug-free athlete cannot contend with the significant volume of work on the skeletal muscle system in a typical bodybuilder MS routine, nor does such a routine allow for optimal rest periods of limited but sufficient time for physiological adaptation to occur, and produces incomplete rest periods coupled with rest periods that are too long in duration(5), by the nature of the haphazard pairing of muscles. MS routines also have a serious affect on CNS recovery, which is thought to be responsible for increased incident of Overreaching and Overtraining syndrome, leading to more time off and more time spent away from the field of play or the gym (4). Proper rest intervals that allow for CNS recovery will allow the athlete to continue in competition or in resistance training with continued adaptation and growth. Most importantly, the contention that significant damage and subsequent increased rest periods are superior in producing hypertrophy in skeletal muscle tissue is not supported by the literature (5,12).


1. J Biomech. 1990;23(5):405-15. Glenohumeral muscle force and moment mechanics in a position of shoulder instability. Bassett RW, Browne AO, Morrey BF, An KN.

2. J Strength Cond Res. 2005 May;19(2):449-52. Electromyographic activity of the pectoralis major and anterior deltoid muscles during three upper-body lifts. Welsch EA, Bird M, Mayhew JL.

3. American Journal of Sports Medicine, Vol 24, Issue 4 518-527. A comparison of tibiofemoral joint forces and electromyographic activity during open and closed kinetic chain exercises. KE Wilk, RF Escamilla, GS Fleisig, SW Barrentine, JR Andrews and ML Boyd

4. Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning/National Strength and Conditioning Association; Thomas Baechle, Roger Earle, editors, 2nd Ed. 2000.

5. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. Manipulating resistance training program variables to optimize maximum strength in men: a review. B Tan. 1999

6. Strength & Conditioning Journal, Volume 21, Number 2. Periodization: Effects of manipulating volume and intensity—Part 1. MH Stone, HS O'Bryant, et al.

7. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 16, No. 1, pp. 25–32. The Effects of Accentuated Eccentric Loading on Strength, Muscle Hypertrophy, and Neural Adaptations in Trained Individuals
JASON P. BRANDENBURG, and DAVID DOCHERTY

8. Hypertrophy and Hyperplasia: Adaptations of Muscular Tissue to Various Resistance Training Protocols. Anton Luis Sevilla. 2003.

9. Effect of resistance training volume on strength and muscle thickness.
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 28(10):1311-1320, October 1996.
STARKEY, DAVID B.; POLLOCK, MICHAEL L., et. al.

10. Effect of training frequency and specificity on isometric lumbar extension strength. Spine, Vol. 15, No. 6. 1990. JE Graves, ML Pollock, et. al.

11. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1997 Dec;29(12):1646-52. Muscular adaptation and strength during the early phase of eccentric training: influence of the training frequency. Sorichter S, Mair J, Koller A, et. al.

12. Acute adaptation to low volume eccentric exercise. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 33(7):1213-1219, July 2001. PADDON-JONES, DOUGLAS; ABERNETHY, PETER J.
 
please inform me. If you know any research that can back this up, i would be very interested.
A push-pull split routine is more likely to over train (based on ALL the muscles you use during these exercises)
Day 1 chest/back
Day 2 biceps/triceps
(biceps and triceps will be worked on both days)
Unless you want to do all 4 on the same day....but what about shoulders?, that would be an awful lot of exercises on 1 day. especially if you haven't trained for 3 years.
same thing if you split upper and lower body. There are far more exercises for the upper body because the upper body can make more movements. so once again you end up with an unbalanced workout.

How often do you feel it sufficient/optimal to train each muscle?

Nice write up Jonathan.
 
A rep well deserved

Go bipennate,
These are the responses why I joined this forum.
You made some really strong points.
You mentioned that a simple split or full body program is more effective than a multi-split program. I assume that a multi-split program in this context is split in 5 days or more, basically training 1 maybe 2 muscles per day.
I agree that this is an outdated routine so let's focus our attention on the simple split program. (my favo format) A few characteristics of a good work out you mentioned where:
Multi-joint over isolation exercise
Intensity over volume (so no need to do 4 exercises of 3 sets for just biceps)
Rest in moderation (a multi-split program will train a muscle group 1 a week)

Now let's look back at my original split suggestion in combination with the some of the exercises presented in the beginning of this post and modify this using the guidelines above

Day 1: Chest/ triceps/ shoulders.
The choice was DB flies. I acknowledge that the ROM is not ideal, however I find that this exercise does provide a good pre-fatigue for the pecs. Follow this exercise with the multi-joint DB chest press and we have an excellent High intensity multi-joint chest combo.
Next step, get rid of the shoulder flies (lateral raises) as mentioned in the article and replace this with the multi-joint wonder....The Arnie shoulder press. Now I like to follow this with some bent over rear delts. This to balance front and back
and last but not least the triceps:the triceps already had a bit of a workout in the chest and shoulder routine. So don't bother warming up those muscles.
Why not finish them of with a drop-set French press, and if you are really keen (and better trained!!) you can end with just the eccentric movement of this exercise.

Day 2: Back/biceps/abs
If you want to multi-joint the back, I would go for the lat-pull down, maybe rotating with a seated row. if you lack the equipment you probably going towards bent over rows (supported by bench, you don't want to ruin your back)
For the biceps, let me think..ooh..I know....Zotmann curls.. Biceps are easy though..lot's of stuff you can do...hammer, reverse, matrix and much, much more...I like to do 2 different exercise and finish them off with one set of concentration curls. (ok, this is a complete isolation exercise, so it shouldn't be here...but it is just such a nice exercise)
Same for Abs, we all know plenty of them ,so just be creative.

Day 3 legs.
Lunge and squat variations all multi-joint..all good.

Now, to answer stroutmans question...This program allows 2 day rest for the muscle groups you train, so you should (eventually) be able to do this twice a week. Listen to your body though, if the muscles you want to train are still sore, you should postpone your workout and have an extra rest day...

anyway that is just from the top of my head.
reality is that there is no golden rule for creating a perfect workout or routine.
I wish there was, it would have saved me about 3000 Aus dollars on study material:rolleyes:
 
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