Weight of Muscle vs Fat / Gaining Muscle while Cutting Cals

kimmy.j

kimmy.j

New member
Hi Everyone,

I've always heard that muscle weighs more than fat. When I tell people I've been working out, but not losing any weight (actually gaining a teensy bit), they tell me that it is because MUSCLE WEIGHS MORE THAN FAT. Which, yes, this makes sense....If I were gaining muscle!

I have also read that you CAN NOT GAIN MUSCLE WHILE CUTTING CALORIES. We'll, I've been cutting calories, too (I sit around 1350-1500 on any given day, and I track calories with sparkpeople). So this means that the first theory could not be true, correct? Since it is not possible to gain muscle while losing fat/weight.

I'm just a little confused. I haven't been working at this for very long at all, but I haven't seen any positive changes on the scale. My goal is to lose 10 pounds in four months, to put me at my ultimate goal weight. Am I not eating enough? I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong.

I try to overcount my calories a little bit when I am recording, that way I for sure don't eat too much (I call 1/3 cup oatmeal 1 serving, even though a serving size of oatmeal is listed at 1/2 cup -- if that makes sense). I've been stuck at this weight for SEVEN months now! How am I supposed to get passed this?!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and reply (if anyone does). I love this forum and the friends I've made here and the support it gives me.
 
kimmy.j said:
they tell me that it is because MUSCLE WEIGHS MORE THAN FAT.
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They weigh the same, muscle is just denser.

kimmy.j said:
I have also read that you CAN NOT GAIN MUSCLE WHILE CUTTING CALORIES.
Click to expand...

I've read this a lot too and am a bit confused by it since I think I've experienced the opposite. I've been doing a combination of cardio and resistance training to supplement my diet. I've lost close to 30 pounds to date and have made consistent gains in all aspects of muscle strength. I can see a visible increase in size as well as the ability to lift more. All the while being in a calorie deficit the past couple months.

Are you experiencing the same thing as far as stregth?

Here are some links you might find useful. They seem to show that resistance training will minimize muscle loss or possibly even increase it. For some of them, the subjects were on very low calorie diets of 800 calories so that would've likely hindered their results. Either way, I'd have to think that it's possible to gain muscle while in a deficit. This is primarily based on my own experience though.

Resistance training conserves fat-free mass and re... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2008] - PubMed result
Resistance Weight Training During Caloric Restriction Enhances Lean Body Weight Maintenance.
Does the amount of endurance exercise in combination with weight training and a very-low-energy diet affect resting metabolic rate and body composition? -- Whatley et al. 59 (5): 1088 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
 
I've read this a lot too and am a bit confused by it since I think I've experienced the opposite. I've been doing a combination of cardio and resistance training to supplement my diet. I've lost close to 30 pounds to date and have made consistent gains in all aspects of muscle strength.
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Becoming stronger is not the same thing as gaining muscle mass.

You cannot build more muscle in a calorie deficit - where will the tissue come from if there's not enough calories being taken in to support your current weight as it is? (The exception to this being if you're already VERY overweight, in which case some energy is transferred to muscle growth) or if you're VERY out of shape, in which case your body prioritizes muscle growth. But that stage tends to pass very quickly once a basic level of muscle has been built.

However, you can increase the strength and endurance of the muscle you HAVE by continuing to lift weights while you're losing weight.
 
I've always heard that muscle weighs more than fat. When I tell people I've been working out, but not losing any weight (actually gaining a teensy bit), they tell me that it is because MUSCLE WEIGHS MORE THAN FAT. Which, yes, this makes sense....If I were gaining muscle!
Click to expand...
Not only can you not gain muscle while cutting calories (except for the two conditions above) NO ONE gains muscle that fast. A woman who is busting her ass with a goal of building maximum muscle (that means lots of heavy lifting, eating that is focused towards muscle growth, etc.) will gain maybe 1-2 lbs of muscle per month for the first year. After the first year, the muscle gain halves. After the 2nd year it halves again.

No one is gaining 10lbs or 20lbs of muscle per month while dieting and while doing average cardio based workouts unless they're taking drugs.

I haven't been working at this for very long at all, but I haven't seen any positive changes on the scale. My goal is to lose 10 pounds in four months, to put me at my ultimate goal weight. Am I not eating enough? I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong.
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The scale shouldn't be your only measurement option. How are your clothes fitting? Have you used a tape measure and actually measured your hips, stomach, legs, etc? MAny times the scale will show retained fluid, water weight from high sodium, and tons of other things .. while your body is still changing shape and losing fat.

But also .. the "overcounting" you're describing sounds pretty dramatic. Is it possible that you're not getting enough calories. Just as an example:
You're eating 1300 calories a day.
You count 1/3 cup as 1/2 cup ... so you're overestimating your calories by around 17%.
If you consistently overcount by 17%, then you're really only eating 1050 calories a day. If you're overcounting by more, then you're actually eating even less.
If you exercise on top of that, you're really getting so few calories that you may be putting your body into a state that it won't lose any more weight.

Being ACCURATE in your calorie counting is important - both directions. Eating too little is as bad as eating too much. And if you'v been doing this for 7 months, then you've probably slowed your metabolism quite a bit.

My recommendation would be to take a diet break. 7 months is too long to be in a continual deficit when you're that close to your goal weight. Take a break. Eat around 1500-1700 calories for a while to maintain your weight. You might find that when you raise your calories, your weight drops. It happens a lot.
 
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aravind82 said:
I've been doing a combination of cardio and resistance training to supplement my diet. I've lost close to 30 pounds to date and have made consistent gains in all aspects of muscle strength. I can see a visible increase in size as well as the ability to lift more. All the while being in a calorie deficit the past couple months.

Are you experiencing the same thing as far as stregth?
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Thank you for the links. Although it really looks and feels as if the muscle is growing bigger, this may not be the case. I can see my muscles more, but this may also be because I pay more attention to them since I have muscle soreness after a workout.

I guess what I still don't understand is...
I am in a calorie deficit, therefore I can not add more muscle, why does it seem like I can not lose weight?

The only explanation I can think of is "I am not in a calorie deficit"...and if that's the case, I might as well just kill myself now because my meals are tiny, I am hungry a lot when in deficit, and it's kind of miserable.

The human body is wacky, and I hate that it makes so much sense.
 
Thank you for the links. Although it really looks and feels as if the muscle is growing bigger, this may not be the case.
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Exactly.

The muscle is more visible because the fat that had been covering it is melting off. So it *appears* that the muscle is growing and becoming more defined, but it really isn't (or at least only in a very minor way).
 
KaraCooks said:
My recommendation would be to take a diet break. 7 months is too long to be in a continual deficit when you're that close to your goal weight. Take a break. Eat around 1500-1700 calories for a while to maintain your weight. You might find that when you raise your calories, your weight drops. It happens a lot.
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Don't worry, I have taken a break. When I said I had been at the same weight for seven months, I wasn't counting calories that whole time. Of course I was watching what I eat, but I was focusing on not going above 1600 calories on any given day (however, I did have many days where I did).
In fact, out of those seven months, I have counted for no more than 8 weeks.

I only overestimate certain foods that are questionable. Say I eat an apple that I believe to be a "medium" size apple, I will tell my calorie counter that it is a large apple, because I am unsure exactly how big a medium apple is, and I can't pull out a ruler at work and measure my fruit. Generally though, I eat packaged foods that have 2-3 servings per bag, and I count those foods calorie for calorie and gram for gram. I dunno, I'm just weird and after seeing the "portion distortion" stuff, I believe I may still have that kind of mindset, which is why I count the way I do. I dunno, I'm weird.

I should really stop rationalizing everything I do. Thank you for your input. I will try harder to count more accurately. I'm still sad that I haven't lost an ounce in the past 2 weeks of hard work. I feel like since I've been off the wagon for a few months, it should be like the beginning of weight loss was, and I should be able to drop a pound a week for at least the first couple of weeks!
 
Ok, let me reframe since you gave me more info. :) I'm gonna ask more questions:

Can you give me a sample of what you eat each day?
Do you log it or how do you count calories?
What kind of exercise are you doing?
How much water are you drinking?
(I know you may have answered these elsewhere, but I'm hoping to not have to go searching! :) ).

Ok, the other thing is that remember the smaller you get, the slower the weight will come off. 3500 calories = 1 lb lost, so ...

At 130 lbs, your maintenance is around 1820. If you eat 1300 calories, then you're losing 520 calories per day. That means you lose 1 lb every 6.7 days.

At 118 lbs, your maintenance is 1652. If you eat 1300 calories, then you're losing 352 calories per day. That means you lose 1 lb every 10 days.

That's assuming you'e 100% perfectly on plan, not retaining water, not having your period, not experiencing any other issues. :)

So ... it's just mathematically slower to lose weight when you're smaller.
 
the study was based on obese women)
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Note my comment above that it is possible to gain SOME muscle if
1 -- you're obese
2 -- you're badly out of shape

That benefit is lost once you're no longer obese and you've build a minimum amount of muscle.

Even so, again, a woman who is working hard and eating specifically for muscle gain (high protein, etc.) will only gain 1-2 pounds of muscle per week. You're not going to gain enough to offset loss ...
 
First, thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it!

Can you give me a sample of what you eat each day?
I wake up at 7:45.
8:15 - 1/3-1/2 cup of Oatmeal, with a teaspoon of peanut butter and a spash of milk, sometimes with fruit
Mid-Morning - Yogurt and a piece of fruit
Lunch - Generally a sandwich, veggie burrito, or vegetarian chili
I don't always have an afternoon snack, but if I do, it's an oatmeal packet (130 cals)
Dinner - Small portion of Pasta, a burrito, soup, or veggies with a boca burger patty. (I always make a full meal for my husband, and cut out all the sides except veggies for me and have a small portion size)..oh, and I REALLY like pizza.

My numbers average around:
1350 calories
160-180 grams carbs
50 grams fat
60-80 grams protein (this is what I focus on the most)

I hope this helps, I am currently in the process of going from vegan - vegetarian - meat eater again.

Do you log it or how do you count calories?
I use sparkpeople to count calories. I started using fitwatch in 2006 and found that it really helped me, but I found sparkpeople had a better community and more features, so I've only recently switched to it.

What kind of exercise are you doing?
Generally I have been going to the group classes at my gym. I like to do a cardio based (spinning, shadow boxing, or running) workout 2 days a week, a strength based class (working out on my own hasn't been so good for me) 2 days a week, and on Thursday's my gym offers a class that is 30 min spinning and 30 minutes weights. We shoot for a Yoga class Saturday mornings, but I can't say that it always happens.

How much water are you drinking?
I consistently drink 1.5 liters, but I always aim for 2.



I also realize that since I've only been back on track for 2 weeks, and am expecting to have lost weight already, I may just need to give it more time. Also, the fact that my period is due in 6 days may not be helping.
 
I should have mentioned that I am also focusing on my endurance for more pull-ups and push-ups. For some reason gaining the upper body strength is very important to me right now.

I'm up to 8 pull-ups in a row, and am aiming for 20 (but when I get there, I will add more).
I do 3 sets of 30 push ups, every day, no matter if it's strength training day, or not.
 
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