The 4-Hour Body

Melancholy said:
There is an interesting resistance to information, and where it comes from on this site... ALL of the information that we have on this site, is from a book somewhere, sometime. Some of the diet books, like South Beach, Dean Ornish, etc. actually DO contribute positively to the weight-loss community. We need to sort through the good/ bad, and make opinions but only after we have read/ tried the techniques. What has this author done to deserve such scorn? I can understand vilifying diets like "3-day cleanse" and other heinous diets as such, but a book that is founded using sound scientific principals? That's like saying a book on Biology is a waste of money, because Biology has already been written about. As the world evolves, so will dieting even if it re-hashes some old, and tried and true principals. This book may be the impetus for someone that is really struggling to lose weight, to finally move ahead, and what is wrong with that?
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I don't think anybody is denying that these books can provide the public with positive contributions. Following a fad diet actually does work for some people and it would be ignorant for anyone here to deny that. I think the point that everybody who is "against" this book (so to speak) is trying to say is that there is nothing in that book that is ground-breaking information; it's all information that you can find in a million other places. And, it's all information that you can find online for free.

Bottom line, most people don't buy fad diet books because they work; they buy fad diet books because they are sold on an unrealistic idea. "Buy this book and learn the secret to quick and easy weight loss!!! For only $15.99, purchase my book and learn how to shed the pounds in only 14 days. Drop four pant sizes in just a few days!!! Go from flabby to NOT TOO SHABBY!!! Learn how; purchase my book today!!!"

It's all horseshit. I've lost a good amount of weight before and I didn't have to follow some fad diet to do so. In fact, nobody has to follow a fad diet. They just have to eat right, exercise and make sure they burn more calories than they consume. And, when you boil it down, that's all these fad diets are utilizing - calories in vs. calories out. They just market it in a more interesting and attractive way.

And, once again - NONE of these diets work unless you eat right and exercise. NONE of these diets work unless you burn more calories than you consume.

People who have read this book and have experienced weight loss by following the program found within its pages may be losing weight, but it's not because the book contains magical information - it's because they're burning more calories than they're consuming. And, I think that's the point the people who are "against" this book are making.
 
Toddless said:
He stresses rule 5 by saying, "...dramatically spiking caloric intake ... once per week increases fat-loss by ensuring that your metabolic rate (thyroid function and conversion of T4 to T3, etc.) doesn't downshift from extended caloric restriction."

It makes sense to me - I think we all know that the biggest reason diets fail in the long term is because your body adjusts to the restricted caloric intake. Most people solve this problem with exercise, but if we can "confuse" our bodies when we eat (much like what we try to do in the gym by constantly changing our workouts), we ought to see greater changes. Anyone have any thoughts, pro or con, on this?
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So on this - to sort of get back to where this all started... :D

I'm not sure I'd agree that this is the biggest reason diets fail. It's been my experience (admittedly anecdotal from myself and others!) that when weight creeps up it's not that my body suddenly can gain weight on what was once maintenance calories, it's that as I'm less focused on the diet, my actual intake creeps up. Not only is this true for me, but I've heard this from others as well. I can't say I've seen a study that actually points out the main reason diets fail, but I have seen those that say the metabolic adjustment (sometimes called starvation mode) is actually minor.

Now, I have seen mention of thyroid uptake levels from prolonged dieting - although I could have sworn that was specific to low carb dieting (<100g of carbs a day) and that the actual effects long term aren't known. There are some suggestions for the once a week 'cheat' or refeed in many of the body builder cut phase diets just in case. There's a lot to be said for this for psychological reasons though, in terms of addressing the feelings of "I can never have this again!" resulting in binges, even if there's no actual physiological advantage.

If you have any articles on the effects of long term caloric restriction on thyroid activity, I'd definitely be interested in reading them.

To me though, it seems a bit like the paleo claims - on the surface they sound quite reasonable, but they try add scientific explanations that may not even be accurate. I.e. are high fiber/high protein foods better because of the insulin response, or because when you eat more filling foods and don't count calories, you'll eat less? On the other hand, if they get people cutting out processed crap and eating more fiber and protein... awesome! It's a hell of a lot better than the cookie diet or buying supplements from Biggest Loser trainers ;)
 
Also... came across a writeup of the diet online (on gizmodo) and in it it says that red wine is ok, but milk, white wine and beer are out. The writeup I found kind of implies that it's because he likes red wine and it's worked out ok for him.

Is this in the book, and is there an explanation anywhere for it? Just curious!
 
Like The 4 hour body by Tim Ferris

Have read most of the book and have found much of it useful. No problem for me to eat the same meal 6 days a week. Love beans and veggies and meat and there are many varieties of each not to mention all the spices and other condiments one can use.
However have found that if I eat as much as I want of these slow carb meals , as the book says you can, I will gain some of the weight back I've lost.
That said, it still gives me a doable method of maintenance that I think I can maintain.
Do not miss the white foods at all. Cheat day is a lot of fun, so far so good.:newbie:
 
Jeanette401 said:
Also... came across a writeup of the diet online (on gizmodo) and in it it says that red wine is ok, but milk, white wine and beer are out. The writeup I found kind of implies that it's because he likes red wine and it's worked out ok for him.

Is this in the book, and is there an explanation anywhere for it? Just curious!
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He specifies it must be a dry red wine.
 
Wine Glass 115ml Large Glass

Alcohol-free Wine 37 calories 74 Cals
Champagne 96 calories 192 Cals
Dry Red Wine 83 calories 166 Cals
Dry White Wine 77 calories 154 Cals
Rose 82 calories 164 Cals
Sparkling 92 calories 184 Cals
Sweet Red Wine 100 calories 200 Cals
Sweet White Wine 103 calories 206 Cals
Bianco Vermouth 167 calories 334 Cals
Ginger Wine 190 calories 380 Cals
Martini Bianco 150 calories 300 Cals
Martini Extra Dry 150 calories 300 Cals
Martini Rose 180 calories 360 Cals
Martini Rosso 192 calories 384 Cals
Port 170 calories 340 Cals
Sherry average 140 calories 280 Cals


1 cup 2% milk (244 g) - 122 cal
1 cup 1% milk (244 g) - 102 cal



...still drinking your calories
 
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Yes, I got that he was specifying a specific type of wine, I just wondered if he had an explanation for why dry red was ok, but a dry white was not, given that the white has fewer calories. The explanation online seemed to be 'Because that's what worked for me' rather than any known properties of wine.

Incidentally, I found a review of the book that covered the 15 minute orgasm section and compared the advice to advocating the crocodile wrestling position. However, I was in mixed company the last time I went to CostCo and started to flip through the book, and there are enough illustrations in that section that I didn't feel comfortable finding out just how accurate that review was. Might be worth a look though, lol. ... And I wonder if it's REALLY true that he recommends you don't let the woman talk because she'll just be trying to distract herself...

Certainly the guy knows how to sell books!
 
Ferris explains that losing weight and maintaing good health is much more than just calorie counting. he answers all your question doubting each of his ideas. thats what makes the book so great is he explains everything in fine detail and provides science and percentages to show how effective each idea is. for instance drinking orange juice every morning will spike ur cholesterol, LDL,iron, and albumin all out of a healthy range. Iron spiked over 200% which is very unhealthy since men don't have a way of clearing excessive iron. excessive iron is very toxic. it's things like that in which you wont learn in other books. he has so many tests that he personally experimented with himself that show proven results. not to mention his diet works with no exercise. Now of course he could of cut down the pages from 500 to about 300, but every doubt you can have is usually covered and explained. for all of you knocking this diet and tim ferris i recommend you read the book before you say anything
 
spaden11 said:
it's things like that in which you wont learn in other books.
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Which makes me doubt him since pretty sure you WOULD find that stuff in other books.

Well here is something about Iron:

I'd hope you would consider all sources before listening to a non-doctor's 'weight loss made simple' book.




oh yeah..you know that huge spike in iron from OJ? They contain 1/2 milligram of iron per 8-ounce cup. It is actually considered LOW in iron and actually the Vitamin C is needed to help your body actually absorb iron.


And you can lose weight without exercise if you cut enough calories. Your diet (not the bad word, the term for what you eat) effects weight loss much more than exercise. It is much easier to cut 500 a day from your diet than burn 500 calories a day with added exercise.
 
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spaden11 said:
Ferris explains that losing weight and maintaing good health is much more than just calorie counting. he answers all your question doubting each of his ideas. thats what makes the book so great is he explains everything in fine detail and provides science and percentages to show how effective each idea is. for instance drinking orange juice every morning will spike ur cholesterol, LDL,iron, and albumin all out of a healthy range. Iron spiked over 200% which is very unhealthy since men don't have a way of clearing excessive iron. excessive iron is very toxic. it's things like that in which you wont learn in other books. he has so many tests that he personally experimented with himself that show proven results. not to mention his diet works with no exercise. Now of course he could of cut down the pages from 500 to about 300, but every doubt you can have is usually covered and explained. for all of you knocking this diet and tim ferris i recommend you read the book before you say anything
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This right here is the part that I have a problem with. One person is an interesting experiment, but not enough to prove something. As an example, I was reading up on sweet potatoes and came across a discussion amongst diabetics - for some, sweet potato had minimal impact on their blood sugar readings. For others, it spiked it higher than white potato. This means that one experimenter could 'show' that sweet potato doesn't have a significant impact on blood sugar, but it wouldn't make it true for the general population. And vice versa. I saw that Tim Ferris encourages people to question his ideas rather than blindly accept them, and even admits that some of his explanations might be just plain wrong.

Pointing out the weaknesses/issues isn't a blatant attack, but I don't need to read every single word of the book (I've looked at some, and he encourages you to view it as a 'buffet' and pick what you're interested) in order to know that experimenting on yourself does not prove anything for the general population.

The red wine is a prominent example - what if for some people red wine is awful, but dry white has minimal impact? It would be foolish of me to assume that I'd be fine drinking red wine of an evening just because it was fine for some other guy who probably has very different physiology than mine.

I don't mind hearing the good ideas behind the book - and promoting them as such, but it's just silly to say that I have to give the guy money in order to criticize anything about it. Especially the parts that are being explained, I've read, or he's posted on the web.

As a side note, I've heard he has employees that post about him encouraging the purchase of his books, as part of their job. I haven't seen actual proof of this, but it does seem quite plausible.
 
obviously you never read the book because the book is full of ideas and science that hasn't been tried many places and he puts it all in language everyday people can understand with facts and tests behind it. until you read the book and try it, you can't say nothing. for instance, exercising 280sec shows GLUT-4 content in the muscle was increased 83% while exercising 6 hours GLUT-4 content increased 91%. that's a whole lot of wasted exercise for not a lot of extra results. that's what this book consists of. little tricks and factual information that will help you lose weight faster and become much healthier with almost no major effort.
 
very true. obviously everyone is different but you read the book, then you find any other book that describes all the information and tips he gives with science and facts also in it. there isn't any other. his book is very very easy to read. i guarantee any other book is very very boring and doesn't clarify nearly as much as the 4 hour body. read page 23 of the book and it will make you think twice about calorie counting
 
3 posts and it's all about defending his book.

Jeanette might be on to something about people coming on to just push his book. It's rare for someone to come to a weight loss forum for the sole purpose as to encourage a book purchase as opposed to trying to join a weight loss community.

I wonder what some background checking of spaden will show..
 
spaden11 said:
obviously you never read the book because the book is full of ideas and science that hasn't been tried many places and he puts it all in language everyday people can understand with facts and tests behind it. until you read the book and try it, you can't say nothing. for instance, exercising 280sec shows GLUT-4 content in the muscle was increased 83% while exercising 6 hours GLUT-4 content increased 91%. that's a whole lot of wasted exercise for not a lot of extra results. that's what this book consists of. little tricks and factual information that will help you lose weight faster and become much healthier with almost no major effort.
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I thought you was pointing out that it was a way for you to lose weight without exercise? Which is it? Focused and effective exercise with calorie reduction or not?

And I'd done quite a bit of research on this book already just for this topic.

And finally also..he put ideas that are already out there, simplified it and spiced it up to draw people to read it.
 
go ahead (insult removed) lol i just started the diet and lost 5 pounds in 5 days on it and for all of you who are judging it and never a actually read it it's a very bias opinion. sure his information is probably all over the web but who is gonna sit on google for hours and research the stuff he has already researched, and as for doctor's he has about 120 something listed with names in the beginning of his book that assisted him in his studies.
 
5 pounds in 5 days? Most is likely water weight AND if you consider that an overall safe pace of weight loss, you are wrong.

And 120 doctors could also be 120 doctors being paid to help..I rather look at unbiase medical studies and proven cases.
 
spaden11 said:
obviously you never read the book because the book is full of ideas and science that hasn't been tried many places and he puts it all in language everyday people can understand with facts and tests behind it. until you read the book and try it, you can't say nothing. for instance, exercising 280sec shows GLUT-4 content in the muscle was increased 83% while exercising 6 hours GLUT-4 content increased 91%. that's a whole lot of wasted exercise for not a lot of extra results. that's what this book consists of. little tricks and factual information that will help you lose weight faster and become much healthier with almost no major effort.
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Yes Virginia, posts like these are why I find it entirely plausible that people are being paid to post things implying you have to read this book on forum discussions.

So far you have failed to explain why red wine is acceptable on the diet, but white wine is not, other than that's what worked for Tim.

As for the 'almost no major effort' I have to admit that while I didn't comment on it before, I found Tim's whole "modified Pareto Principle" to be nonsensical. For those who haven't read it, he explains that to be considered conversationally fluent in a language, you need a vocabulary of approximately 2500 words. As Spanish has around 100,000 words, that means 2.5% of the vocabulary will take you 95% of the way there.

Of course, then this somehow means that the real principle is that 2.5% of the effort will get you 95% of the way there, even though he gives no reason this should be true of everything and not just language, and also not mentioning that (in English at least) the average native speaker has an actual vocabulary of about 20,000 words, which somewhat increases the percentage...

So I encourage people to post the things that they find worthwhile and interesting in the book, because that's much more likely to convince me I should spend money on it than telling me I have to read it all or I can't say anything ;) (PS - anyone with thoughts on the 'wrestling a crocodile' thing? Accurate? Bogus? Anyone?)
 
he doesn't just leave out exercise there are plans for people who don't want to exercise and there are plans for people who want to exercise. unless your a total nerd (not saying you are) just in general, than you don't have time to research all the stuff he puts in his book. most people have no idea what to even research. the stuff he has presented is rare and i'm just saying i have never come across a book easy to read and filled with so much knowledge.
 
actually I have plenty of time to research because I do take my weight loss seriously.

But besides that point..how about we prove you aren't just here to get people to buy his book....you want to debate page 23...put it right here on the forum.


The stuff isn't rare. No one has ever said his stuff is unknown or rare. No reviewer, no doctor and certainly no one on this site. It's the same stuff repackaged. For some people, that is great but I want to debate the points, not 'buy the book !!!!!!111!1!!!'
 
you ever see the biggest loser? they lose about 30 pounds a week. I'm not that big but i'm not starving myself and im not exercising too much that's for sure so you really should quit acting like you know everything. If i had to bet my life on tim ferris and 120 doctors or you and your google. I'd have to go with tim ferris. I'm sure 95% of people would to
 
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