Systemic indices of skeletal muscle damage and recovery of muscle function after exer

Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2009 Aug;34(4):773-84.Click here to read Links
Systemic indices of skeletal muscle damage and recovery of muscle function after exercise: effect of combined carbohydrate-protein ingestion.
Betts JA, Toone RJ, Stokes KA, Thompson D.

Human Physiology Research Group, University of Bath, Somerset BA2 7AY, UK.

Previous studies indicate that exercise-induced muscle damage may be attenuated when protein is included in a carbohydrate recovery supplement. This study was designed to examine systemic indices of muscle damage, inflammation, and recovery of muscle function, following strenuous exercise, with ingestion of either carbohydrate alone or a carbohydrate-protein mixture. Seventeen highly trained volunteers participated in 2 trials in a randomized order, separated by approximately 9 weeks. Each trial involved 90 min of intermittent shuttle-running, either with ingestion of a 9% sucrose solution during and for 4 h after (1.2 g.kg-1 body mass.h-1) or with the same solution plus 3% whey protein isolate (0.4 g.kg-1 body mass.h-1). Blood was sampled throughout and 24 h after each trial to determinate the systemic indices of muscle damage and inflammation. An isokinetic dynamometer was used to establish reliable baseline measurements of peak isometric torque for knee and hip flexors and extensors, which were then followed-up at 4-, 24-, 48-, and 168-h postexercise. The exercise protocol resulted in significantly elevated variables indicative of muscle damage and inflammation, while peak isometric torque was immediately reduced by 10%-20% relative to baseline, across all muscle groups tested. However, none of these responses varied in magnitude or time-course between the treatments, or between participants' first and second trials. The addition of whey protein isolate to a dietary carbohydrate supplement ingested during and for 4 h following strenuous exercise did not attenuate systemic indices of muscle damage or inflammation, nor did it restore muscle function more rapidly than when the carbohydrate fraction was ingested alone.
 
Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2009 Aug;34(4):773-84.Click here to read Links
Systemic indices of skeletal muscle damage and recovery of muscle function after exercise: effect of combined carbohydrate-protein ingestion.
Betts JA, Toone RJ, Stokes KA, Thompson D.

Human Physiology Research Group, University of Bath, Somerset BA2 7AY, UK.

Previous studies indicate that exercise-induced muscle damage may be attenuated when protein is included in a carbohydrate recovery supplement. This study was designed to examine systemic indices of muscle damage, inflammation, and recovery of muscle function, following strenuous exercise, with ingestion of either carbohydrate alone or a carbohydrate-protein mixture. Seventeen highly trained volunteers participated in 2 trials in a randomized order, separated by approximately 9 weeks. Each trial involved 90 min of intermittent shuttle-running, either with ingestion of a 9% sucrose solution during and for 4 h after (1.2 g.kg-1 body mass.h-1) or with the same solution plus 3% whey protein isolate (0.4 g.kg-1 body mass.h-1). Blood was sampled throughout and 24 h after each trial to determinate the systemic indices of muscle damage and inflammation. An isokinetic dynamometer was used to establish reliable baseline measurements of peak isometric torque for knee and hip flexors and extensors, which were then followed-up at 4-, 24-, 48-, and 168-h postexercise. The exercise protocol resulted in significantly elevated variables indicative of muscle damage and inflammation, while peak isometric torque was immediately reduced by 10%-20% relative to baseline, across all muscle groups tested. However, none of these responses varied in magnitude or time-course between the treatments, or between participants' first and second trials. The addition of whey protein isolate to a dietary carbohydrate supplement ingested during and for 4 h following strenuous exercise did not attenuate systemic indices of muscle damage or inflammation, nor did it restore muscle function more rapidly than when the carbohydrate fraction was ingested alone.


Hi Buzz, this article peaked my attention but, could you answer a couple questions for me ? Reason being, im not studied in some of this scientific terminology thats used in some of these articles you post and am curious.
Whats isometric ? Whats a isokinetic dynamometer ?
Is it safe to say that in a nutshell that this article is sayin that carb/protein mixtures can damage muscle/skeletal tissue if given during and post workout.
Im not a newb to the weights, but im a newb to some of these terminologies.
I dont use any supps but I take in carbs pre-workout and protein via chicken, tuna, etc. etc. post workout.
Help the common man out. Thanks
Johnny
 
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isokinetic dynamometer is a device that allows you to perform a movement at a constant velocity. You can set it to for example 30 degrees a second and do leg extensions and no matter how hard you push, it will not move faster than 30 degrees per second.

isometric is exercise while the muscle is at a constant length, so the thing you're trying to move doesn't move. For example putting your hand under a car and trying to do a biceps curl. It won't move, but you're still using your muscle.

It doesn't say supps can damage muscles, it says that protein and carbohyrate supplement doesn't attenuate (decrease) muscle damage after exercise.
After exercise, muscles get damaged, and it has been hypothesised that supps after training can prevent or decrease this damage.

This study only compares carbs with carbs and protein, and doesn't include a group that uses no supps at all, as far as I can tell.
 
isokinetic dynamometer is a device that allows you to perform a movement at a constant velocity. You can set it to for example 30 degrees a second and do leg extensions and no matter how hard you push, it will not move faster than 30 degrees per second.

isometric is exercise while the muscle is at a constant length, so the thing you're trying to move doesn't move. For example putting your hand under a car and trying to do a biceps curl. It won't move, but you're still using your muscle.

It doesn't say supps can damage muscles, it says that protein and carbohyrate supplement doesn't attenuate (decrease) muscle damage after exercise.
After exercise, muscles get damaged, and it has been hypothesised that supps after training can prevent or decrease this damage.

This study only compares carbs with carbs and protein, and doesn't include a group that uses no supps at all, as far as I can tell.

Thanks Kark, appreciate the definitions !
By damaging the muscles while working out, do you mean breaking down ? Because I thought thats what we wanted so that it can rebuild and grow with the help of protein. If the muscle wasnt broken down during the workout because of protein and carbs, the workout would be pointless, am i correct ?
Just tryin to fully understand the terminology of you science type fitness people with your fancy words, as opposed to my old school garage gym, lift hard eat lotsa chicken mentality. This way I can keep up with, or atleast understand some of the more advanced threads like that classic from yesterday. :)
 
yeah, I mean break down.
Because I thought thats what we wanted so that it can rebuild and grow with the help of protein. If the muscle wasnt broken down during the workout because of protein and carbs, the workout would be pointless, am i correct ?

what actually happens in muscle growth is very complex.. there is more to it than break down and rebuild. I could try to guess a bit, though:
The muscles would be broken down during the training, by taking the protein and or carbs right after training, the damage would already have been done. So then measuring less substances that indicate muscle damage after drinking carb and or protein would probably mean that carb and or protein helps the muscle build up faster or something.. well, I'm really not sure, like I said, it's super complex and it is a subject I haven't really read that much up on.
 
yeah, I mean break down.


what actually happens in muscle growth is very complex.. there is more to it than break down and rebuild. I could try to guess a bit, though:
The muscles would be broken down during the training, by taking the protein and or carbs right after training, the damage would already have been done. So then measuring less substances that indicate muscle damage after drinking carb and or protein would probably mean that carb and or protein helps the muscle build up faster or something.. well, I'm really not sure, like I said, it's super complex and it is a subject I haven't really read that much up on.

Thanks Karky ! Appreciated.
 
Though not all evidence supports that you need muscle breakdown (it's really called exercise induced muscle damage) to attain growth. I'm gonna read up on this at school tomorrow and over the next few days and maybe post back with what I find out. Dunno how long it will be, though, as I've got a lot of stuff that I want to read.
 
Though not all evidence supports that you need muscle breakdown (it's really called exercise induced muscle damage) to attain growth. I'm gonna read up on this at school tomorrow and over the next few days and maybe post back with what I find out. Dunno how long it will be, though, as I've got a lot of stuff that I want to read.

No problem Kark, in the mean time im gonna read up on what I can find on the net. Not that its a big deal, I was actually just curious about that article cause it seems like it just complicates things more than they need to be, being that it takes away from the basics we have all learned, or adds to. Ill wait for Buzz to Buzz back in aswell.
 
i think karky has answered it well johnny.
basicly you have to engage the fibres in your muscles for them to grow,that can be done in a few ways,using your 5rm or under engages all fibres,using higher reps you need to be working nearer to faliure,or take shorter rest periods etc etc.

but as far as feeding your muscles directly before or directly after IMO and basing that on alot of studies/articles i have read there really isnt a need to shove a carb/protein dring down as soon as you drop the last weight,(as most supp companies would have you believe) its what you eat over the day thats important as long as you have enough carbs/fats/protein you will be ok.
 
i think karky has answered it well johnny.
basicly you have to engage the fibres in your muscles for them to grow,that can be done in a few ways,using your 5rm or under engages all fibres,using higher reps you need to be working nearer to faliure,or take shorter rest periods etc etc.

but as far as feeding your muscles directly before or directly after IMO and basing that on alot of studies/articles i have read there really isnt a need to shove a carb/protein dring down as soon as you drop the last weight,(as most supp companies would have you believe) its what you eat over the day thats important as long as you have enough carbs/fats/protein you will be ok.

Thanks buzz and kark. I never really did beleive the fact that the supp would have to be used directly like you said "as soon as you drop the last weight", as im not a supp user and sometimes gotta wait awhile for my meals and have gotten great progress just eatin well all throughout my day. Good info and thanks for clearin that up for me.
Johnny
 
yeah.. more research is needed on the timing of protein and carb consumption. Is getting protein right after your workout different than 5 hours after? (when all other factors are the same). If it's actually better, for whatever reason, to take it right after training, then I'd rather do it by protein shake than a chicken and rice dinner, but I guess that's up to the individual.

A lot of the research one protein after workout only measures protein synthesis in a few hours after a workout.. you should really see it over an entire day. I mean, of course taking a protein shake after workout will stimulate protein synthesis.. AAs stimulate protein synthesis. Will it be stimulated less if you wait until you get home and have a real meal or a shake with a similar AA composition? Maybe your protein synthesis would be stimulated the same.. or maybe less. If less, then I'd say protein after workout is important.. if it's the same, I'd say it's not that important.. though you could argue it would be important just to be able to get the maximum number of protein synthesis spikes during a day.. but then it wouldn't really be because it was after training, then it would just be because it's been a while since your last protein synthesis spike and you need a new one.
 
Ya I mean dont get me wrong, I always have my hi protein meal within 20-40 minutes after my workout which I think is sufficient. Im also eating hi protein snacks, or lite meals if you will, throughout my day. Some interesting stuff to think about (or study) though.
 
personaly i would rather have a good meal everytime,why use up cals on a shake when you can get some proper food in you.

read this
 
yeah, that's where I got the part about it being better to wait from, but I see now that he compared two different studies.. that's a big no no.. it's almost impossible. You need the same study otherwise you throw randomization out the window. The groups from the two different studies weren't randomized from the same group of people, so even if the protocol was exactly the same, you can't compare the results.

My position on PWO shakes has been for some time now that you only need carbs if you're training a lot and don't have a lot of time to rebuild your glycogen, though it could be argued that you need carbs for max protein synthesis, but I have seen papers say that you can achieve a max rate with only protein. For someone doing an FBW 3 times a week, glycogen replenishment isn't really that important to focus on, it will happen by itself. I'm a big believer in getting some protein to stimulate MPS, though.
 
personaly i would rather have a good meal everytime,why use up cals on a shake when you can get some proper food in you.

read this

Ok, after reading articles like that it sort of changes the whole way of what the vast majority of weight trainors will tell you. That is the first time ive ever heard of a 24 hr. window, even with the fast proteins coming into play. But I always beleived that protein intake throughout the day is crucial. Its just that from the day ya start trainin and askin around about protein, its pounded in your head that ya gotta get that supp in ya within 15 minutes.
I would say that its a safe bet that if the newb that doesnt know what his or her body responds to best, articles like that will leave them completely confused, or should I say "torn" between what they hear from their gym buddies and what they read from actual case studies. Then it becomes a what or who should I beleive debate.
 
its pounded in your head that ya gotta get that supp in ya within 15 minutes.
QUOTE]

thats because the companys that make the supps bombard you with this idea,and they pay for most of the studies,but they leave out information(or only add info that promotes there product)
 

Yep, thats another thing thats incorporated into my diet since i dont use supps. Some people i guess would argue though that with the amount of food i take in on a bulk that it might be cheaper to go out and buy a tub of whey. To each their own i guess.
Good read.
 
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