Suggestions for a Beginners Bulk Program?

[Darth Pooh]

I would like input on a beginner's bulk guide in the gym. As far as nutrition goes, I believe I will have my macro's in check come July, but I am compiling research for a good bulk. Most other forums have a BLOCKHEAD mentality and I am not sure I want to subject myself to pissing contests.

Does anyone have good references or suggestions for what a week long session in the gym should look like? I am a huge fan of the basic lifts in the sticky, so something that builds off of that would be VERY helpful and useful.

Thanks!

 

[Steve]

I don't have any resources worth recommending. I mean the Basic Lifts Sticky is a conglomeration of my own thoughts and Mark Rippetoes. It works for cutting b/c it promotes heavy lifting which is the best stimulus for maintaining muscle while dieting.

But, on the flip-side, it works for bulking too. People have put serious size on with your basic 5x5 routine, which it's ordinarily labeled.

The only differences between cutting and bulking are as follows:

1. You're eating a caloric surplus which provides the energetic capacity for hypertrophy.

2. You can worry about hitting various rep ranges and not focus so much on the heavy stuff to promote different kinds of hypertrophy (myofibrillar vs. sarcoplasmic).

3. You can increase volume and push yourself harder b/c your recoverability increases when you're eating for that sort of thing (e.g. a surplus).

4. You can handle more max effort work.

There's a few more probably, but these are the pillars.

I'm not a fan of programs, which I'm sure you know. So it really comes down to how many days per week you want to train. Once that's determined, you fill in the gaps.

In essence though, the core of the big lifts outlined in the Basic Lifts are maintained and you add to it in various aspects (e.g., increase volume of those lifts and/or add in other exercises in addition.)

The core tenants always apply regardless of energetic state, those being progressive overload and training specificity.

I'd say my favorite split for bulking which seems to blanketly provide the best stimulus for growth while controlling volume is the 4 day per week upper/lower split. I've discussed it quite a bit around here I believe.

I'm rambling a bit... but my main point I want you to take from this is the simple fact that bulking really isn't different than cutting from the training aspect. It's just minor tweaks that can be done to take advantage of the higher capacity to handle work while bulking.

 

[Darth Pooh]

I guess what I am trying to realize is that my full body workout won't cut it and going to a split is probably more neccessary. Which is what I need to set up... the fullbody is so efficient on time though.

I am looking forward to making strides in strength, hard to get over 45 lb Arnold Presses, I am pretty much "maxed" there... I am hoping the Supines and Inclines will increase my overall in that department.

 

[Steve]

I guess what I am trying to realize is that my full body workout won't cut it and going to a split is probably more neccessary. Which is what I need to set up... the fullbody is so efficient on time though.

Not necessarily.

You can make great gains on the full body workout. That's what the basic 5x5 is. That's what Mark Rippetoe suggests. Progressively overloading the muscle with sufficient volume will always lead to a positive adaptation (hypertrophy) when in a caloric surplus.

It's just I prefer a split routine as highlighted above. That doesn't make it a necessity. I, in fact, have done bulk cycles using a 3 day per week FB routine.

When I'm bulking, things are changing left and right.

 

[Darth Pooh]

Not necessarily.

You can make great gains on the full body workout. That's what the basic 5x5 is. That's what Mark Rippetoe suggests. Progressively overloading the muscle with sufficient volume will always lead to a positive adaptation (hypertrophy) when in a caloric surplus.

It's just I prefer a split routine as highlighted above. That doesn't make it a necessity. I, in fact, have done bulk cycles using a 3 day per week FB routine.

When I'm bulking, things are changing left and right.

SO, in theory, I keep the same workout, maybe add a FEW more exercises in there, but kick the weight up and stay in the 3x8 range? It's weird that more food would make me stronger in the long run (I know there are biochem processes in the middle that I am TOTALLY glossing over, just odd nonetheless).

 

[Steve]

Yes, you could do this. I'd vary your rep ranges and thus intensity though throughout the week. It's good to have some exposure to the 3-6 rep range and some to the 8-15.

Besides a few exceptions, literally everything else research-wise shows an optimal intensity of 70% to 85%, give or take, with working sets in the range of 4-8RMs providing the best return on investment for size/strength.

And that's been the case empirically for me.

I don't see each program as a unique, individual thing. Each program you see is related to the others, and is really nothing but a particular, specific implementation of the basic concepts. The superiority of any program is very specific to the individual and even to when it's used.

On that note, don't be afraid to experiment.

It's hard to go wrong if you're focusing on the basics.

An ideal bulking split (and again, this is just a snapshot in time, definitely not gospel) would look something like this while bulking:

Upper (Back/Pull emphasis)
Pullups (Pulldowns if you can't do them) - 3-5x4-6
Barbell Row - 2-3x6-8
DB Flye - 2-3x10
Cable Row - 1-2x20

Lower (Squat emphasis)
Full Squat - 3-5x4-6
Unilateral Leg Press - 2-3x8-10
Leg Press Calves - 5-6x6-8

Upper (Chest/Press emphasis)
Bench Press - 3-5x4-6
Incline DB - 2-3x6-8
Pullup/Pulldown - 2-3x10
DB Flye - 1-2x20

Lower (DL emphasis)
Front Squat - 3-5x3
DL - 3-5x4-6
Lunge or Split Squat - 2-3x8-10
Seated Calves - 5-6x10

Notice the variety.

Just remember, if you're training each part and/or movement 2-3 times a week with the basic barbell exercises, focusing on something between 5 and 10 reps for 3-5 sets per exercise, and striving to improve your weights over time, then it's pretty hard to go wrong with anything that falls into that realm.

 

[Darth Pooh]

Wow man... you are fucking with my mind. I was expecting a BULK to require at least a half hour longer in the gym with weight training. Right now, with the full body, I am at about 30 or so minutes (give or take on how energized I am that day).

With this structure... and I know I can obviously modify with other stuff, but this looks like I would spend LESS time in the gym (just more often with weight training, for instance, UPPER LOWER M/T, then UPPER LOWER TH/F). Instead of my M W F.

Where would I work my core exercises in? Do I bring cardio down too? I look at least 40 minutes daily (not including my raquetball sessions for over an hour)... would a 15 minute warmup be ideal on an elliptical machine for my WT? I still enjoy racquetball too... I don't want to totally give up on cardio, but I know it can be counterproductive to bulking (or from my readings it can).

 

[Steve]

Wow man... you are fucking with my mind. I was expecting a BULK to require at least a half hour longer in the gym with weight training. Right now, with the full body, I am at about 30 or so minutes (give or take on how energized I am that day).

Well for starters, I didn't include direct arm and core work above as I add that in at the end, so they will be a bit longer.

Secondly, let's look at what we have in day 1 from above.

Upper (Back/Pull emphasis)
Pullups (Pulldowns if you can't do them) - 3-5x4-6
Barbell Row - 2-3x6-8
DB Flye - 2-3x10
Cable Row - 1-2x20

Pullups would be 5 sets of 5 with something like 4 seconds per reps. That's 25reps x 4seconds = 100 seconds. Between each set there will be a 120 second rest, so that's 5x120=600 seconds. Total set is 700 seconds long, or 11-12 minutes long.

Rows would be 3 sets of 6. All the stupid math leaves us with a total time of 5-7 minutes.

Flyes I'd focus on a slower rep speed, so maybe 5 seconds total. I'd also take shorter rests here, maybe 90 seconds. I'd probably stick with 2x10 here. This would leave us with a total time of 5 minutes.

Cable Rows in this instance would maybe by 3 seconds per rep and we'd stick with 2 sets of 20 at 60 seconds break. This would be a total of 4 minutes of work.

12+6+5+4=27

27 minutes total there assuming no bullshit.

Then I'd add in 1-2 sets for bis and 1-2 sets for tris.

I'd also fit calf and core work in there somewhere as well as some foam rolling.

All in all, most routines take me 45-60 minutes to get out.

With this structure... and I know I can obviously modify with other stuff, but this looks like I would spend LESS time in the gym (just more often with weight training, for instance, UPPER LOWER M/T, then UPPER LOWER TH/F). Instead of my M W F.

In reality, your muslces are exposed to training less frequently with what I outlined above opposed to a fullbody routine. With the FB, you're hitting each muscle group 3 times per week. Here you're hitting them twice per week. But volume is increased a bit each day.

If you wanted to train 3 days per week, you could keep the above in mind and:

1. Make it a 3 day/week full body routine and just distribute everything in a semi-reasonable way.

or

2. Just alternate workouts so everything gets hit once every 5th day. So

Mon: Upper
Wed: Lower
Fri: Upper
Mon: Lower
Wed: Upper
Fri: Lower
etc.

To throw another set-up at you, here is a 'bulking routine' Lyle recommends:

Mon: Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8/3' (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3' rest)
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3'
Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2'
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2'
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3'
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2'

Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3'
Row: 3-4X6-8/3'
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2'
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2'
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5'
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5'

For the thu/Fri workouts either rpeat the first two or make some slight exercise substitutions. Can do deadlift/leg press combo on Thu, switch incline/pulldown to first exercises on upper body day. A lot depends on volume tolerance, if the above is too much, go to 2-3X6-8 and 1-2X10-12

Nothing is set in stone.

Where would I work my core exercises in?

See above.

Do I bring cardio down too? I look at least 40 minutes daily (not including my raquetball sessions for over an hour)... would a 15 minute warmup be ideal on an elliptical machine for my WT?

My cardio comes way down when bulking. I've done bulks with absolutely no cardio, which isn't recommended simply due to the health aspects. I'd suggest 2 days per week at a low intensity... just for CV health maintenance. Nothing more, especially if you're active with other things like racquetball and whatnot.

I don't do any cardio warmup before weights, although I don't have a problem with you doing it. I wouldn't suggest 15 minutes. 5-10 minutes tops just to get the blood flowing and increase temp.

My warmups for weights consist primarily of lifting weights.

 

[Darth Pooh]

Makes a ton more sense once I've read it two (or three) more times. Very interesting and I am looking forward to this. It's still a shorter amount of time in the gym believe it or not (because I currently do a lot more cardio, about 40 minutes, that would be basically reduced to 5-10). All in all, I might be in the gym 15 minutes less than normal. Just a shocker... but it is mainly due to reorganization of efforts.

I am concerned my body won't respond to this type of workout. I know... I know...

But hear me out. This is the same mentality that I used when I was in XXL shirts and said I'd never be in a Large due to my frame (currently wearing a VERY tight Medium shirt). So, I think if I started eating in a bulk I'd just gain it all as fat and just resort to my old ways, I can't possibly be "BIG", I can't be stacked. I have twig arms now for crying out loud! Granted you can see some VERY impressive tone and veins (even across my bicep) but in my mind, mentally I am not able to be that guy people go "DAMN" to.

 

[Steve]

Right, I get that. Mental hurdles are the most 'sticky' in that they're hard as hell to change. Even if they make no sense at all. I do understand that, I promise.

The only way to combat these hurdles is by simply getting your feet wet and your hands dirty. The truth will reveal itself and erase the doubt in time with experience.

The body is adaptive to stress.

We know this.

If you are doing the right things in the gym and with diet, your body has no choice but to adapt in a way that makes a bulk what it is... an attempt to increase muscle mass.

It's important to realize that you are going to gain some fat. You are going to lose some tone and veins. It's all part of the process. Either you understand this and enjoy it for what it is... or you maintain what you currently have until your ready, if ever.

The simple truth about bulking is this:

It's all about finding that happy medium where you're eating enough food to support hypertrophy, but not so much that you're packing on the fat. You can't fast forward muscle growth without drugs, yet, many people try to do this by stuffing themselves with calories.

It's all about finding that sweet spot.

And it's a touch & feel process. Work your way to maintenance. Once there, gradually up cals until you start seeing a change in scale, inches, and reflexion. Adjust accordingly given this type of feedback.

As long as you don't turn a 'bulk' into a 'I see it I eat it' mentality... everything will be good.

 

[Darth Pooh]

I am planning on a clean bulk due to my body type.

If my maintaince level is about 2200-2400 with sedentary lifestyle, should I up calories to about 2500 the first week in? If I gain, that is good, if I don't add another 100?

I know its a tweaking game, but is it that sensitive by a 100 calories?

 

[Steve]

I am planning on a clean bulk due to my body type.

I've never been a fan of that term. There's nothing magical about clean foods vs. unclean foods. Shit, they're just made up terms by the myth pushers.

If by 'clean bulk' you mean you don't plan on gorging yourself with excess calories... I'll buy that.

If my maintaince level is about 2200-2400 with sedentary lifestyle, should I up calories to about 2500 the first week in? If I gain, that is good, if I don't add another 100?

No.

You're consuming around 2k now, right?

I'd up from there 10% per week until you are at maintenance. Once at maintenance, start training for your bulk and see what becomes. If nothing happens, then start adding calories. 100 at a chunk is safe and fine. I usually do 10% every week or two until things start heading in the desired direction.

I know its a tweaking game, but is it that sensitive by a 100 calories?

More than likely not. Though 100 extra calories over a long enough period of time adds up. But the slow road is good IMO... especially until you get the feel for how your body responds.

 

[Darth Pooh]

I didn't want to use buzz words, but by clean, I mean generally unprocessed foods. In my case, it's SEMI-unprocessed foods. I don't eat everything organic because A) it's too damn expensive and B) it doesn't exactly fit into my lifestyle.

Clean pretty much means I avoid white breads and nasty fats in a sense. Most of my foods can be identified with about 3 ingredients at most. So, while I think there is a certain "buzz" to the term, I don't think it's that complicated. It is a style of eating that I think should be termed in some way because it is fairly specific (I know, most people would call it a balanced diet, just saying, while in a BULK it could be a ton of shit food, so I wanted to clarify).

 

[Steve]

I didn't want to use buzz words, but by clean, I mean generally unprocessed foods. In my case, it's SEMI-unprocessed foods. I don't eat everything organic because A) it's too damn expensive and B) it doesn't exactly fit into my lifestyle.

See my bulks, and those of whom I walked through bulks before allow for leeway relative to what you eat while cutting. Even my cuts are a lot more 'forgiving' than most others. And it's not just me... I know you're thinking, "yea well Steve, you're naturally skinny."

I've worked with plenty of big people who we dieted down and then bulked up.

Or people who came to me after losing a shit ton of weight ready to build muscle.

The same applies... I'm not a fan of eating nothing processed simply for the sake of meeting some 'clean foods' standard. Bottom line is even the 'unclean' foods contain nutrients. Sure, they tend to not be as nutrient dense, but as long as they fit your caloric and macro goals... why not?

I mean, I maintain good health for the most part. I can't be perfect and where I choose to give some slack is my food choices... especially when bulking where I can afford it.

Just my 2 cents.

Neither right or wrong.

 

[Darth Pooh]

Makes perfect sense and I actually believe what you are saying.

I was hoping to minimize fat gains by eating healthier. Don't get me wrong man... I still eat at Chickie's and Pete's (great bar food, Crab Fries, Pizza, Roast Beef sandwich, crabs... just great food) and I estimate about 1700 calories a meal there, easily. I tend to think of those as my REFEED days and that helps me get through cravings and justify the insane caloric intake I have there.

If I start at 2200 calories (with the initial 10% increase), I can easily eat 200 more a day than I am now. That is in no way difficult for me right now (slap in some extra chicken, chili, oatmeal, peanuts), sometimes I WISH I had those extra 200, lol. Here is the thing, I am LOOKING forward to these extra calories... which scares me, but I suppose I got this far I can't fuck it all up now.

 

[Steve]

Makes perfect sense and I actually believe what you are saying.

I was hoping to minimize fat gains by eating healthier.

This is getting off topic which I don't want to happen. But I'll just say this...

The above is my exact problem with the term "clean foods."

Unclean foods don't make you fat.

Calories do.

I see this all the time on the female physique forums I'm on.... women believing they must eat clean foods or they won't succeed. I can count on one hand those who actually, not only understand, but believe that food doesn't have to be 'clean.' Not only that, but the whole idea is rather silly. And they're very successful.

Granted, I'm not suggesting one can just eat whatever the fuck they want as long as calories are in check. But once you account for calories, protein, and good fats.... it's pretty much fair game.

Of course there are pros and cons to both sides of the fence; clean vs. unclean.

Clean foods are less calorically dense so you can eat more of them satiating you better.

Unclean foods taste good as hell and provide a buffer to the psychological stress that accompanies most trying to eat strictly.

The list goes on....

What I've come to realize is it's a matter of getting in the essentials, filling up on 'clean' stuff as best you can, and allowing for a cushion for junk.

How big that cushion is depends on your ability to psychologically handle eating that sort of food, your caloric goal, etc, etc. But I think it's important to have it in there nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong man... I still eat at Chickie's and Pete's (great bar food, Crab Fries, Pizza, Roast Beef sandwich, crabs... just great food) and I estimate about 1700 calories a meal there, easily. I tend to think of those as my REFEED days and that helps me get through cravings and justify the insane caloric intake I have there.

I wouldn't call it a refeed. I'd call it a cheat meal.

And I'm glad to hear you do this.

And I've had their food... it's damn good.

If I start at 2200 calories (with the initial 10% increase), I can easily eat 200 more a day than I am now. That is in no way difficult for me right now (slap in some extra chicken, chili, oatmeal, peanuts), sometimes I WISH I had those extra 200, lol. Here is the thing, I am LOOKING forward to these extra calories... which scares me, but I suppose I got this far I can't fuck it all up now.

While I understand your unease, you have to realize that you aren't going to get fat overnight. No way in hell. Especially if you're controlling your calories. Monitor closely and adjust accordingly. It's not like you're signing a damn contract where you won't be able to adjust your calories once you raise them and you're doomed to fatness forever.

And I'm pretty sure I've NEVER met someone who wasn't looking forward to bulking. Shit, it's my favorite time of year. Such a breathe of fresh air knowing I don't have to limit my food intake as much.

 

[Trops]

I don't know if Steve agrees with me, but when I do a whole body work out regularly, I like to change up the order which I do things. I don't know if this is recommended or not, but I feel like I'm getting more out of the exercises I do towards the beginning, then the end. I usually try to hit the major muscles when I have more energy, and the smaller ones later. Then every now and then I'll start with the smaller ones just to mix it up. Still doing all the exercises, but in a different order.

What's the thoughts on this?

 

[Darth Pooh]

I don't know if Steve agrees with me, but when I do a whole body work out regularly, I like to change up the order which I do things. I don't know if this is recommended or not, but I feel like I'm getting more out of the exercises I do towards the beginning, then the end. I usually try to hit the major muscles when I have more energy, and the smaller ones later. Then every now and then I'll start with the smaller ones just to mix it up. Still doing all the exercises, but in a different order.

What's the thoughts on this?

I personally do the same thing. It ensures that I am fair to all of my different body parts... especially when I have the energy on certain days. For instance, today, I just wasn't feeling it (probably due to my increased cardio with raquetball and depleted glycogen levels) so I made sure I did pullups first which I may save for the end on other days. This happens quite often... I find that mixing it up is the best way to maximize strength gains.

 

[Steve]

I don't know if Steve agrees with me, but when I do a whole body work out regularly, I like to change up the order which I do things. I don't know if this is recommended or not, but I feel like I'm getting more out of the exercises I do towards the beginning, then the end. I usually try to hit the major muscles when I have more energy, and the smaller ones later. Then every now and then I'll start with the smaller ones just to mix it up. Still doing all the exercises, but in a different order.

What's the thoughts on this?

I order my exercises in a given priority which changes constantly. For instance, if I'm noticing my butt isn't getting sore anymore when I squat, something is probably off with glute activation so I'll prioritize those sort of exercises that promote glute activation. If my shoulders are lacking in size relative to my overall physique, I'll prioritize them in my routine. If my shoulders are starting to round forward, I'll do more pulling work and less pushing.

It's all relative to where you are currently.

Changing a routine just for the sake of changing though is futile.

You must have a meaningful agenda.

And consistency is still a very solid fundamental to maintain in programming. I switch things up, at most, every 4-6 weeks. Sometimes it's much longer.